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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 160786 times)
vapourminer
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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January 27, 2018, 08:07:14 PM
 #1581


if we have sMerits we have a responsibility to reward people.


exactly this. the sooner the people who got an initial large stack of sMerit (just from our ranking when this was implemented) start spreading it around, the more sMerit those who received it can start sending sMerit of their own. we need to spread this initial pool of sMerits out so more members than just high ranking members with sMerit to burn are doing it.

as of right now the bulk of people who can freely send sMerit without worrying about running dry right away (and thus not being able to +merit a worthy post at that point) are high ranking members so it seems top heavy. once these sMerits are spread around more i think posts that may otherwise be overlooked by high ranking members (because they may not have enough interest in some areas of the forums [beginners and help, say], or a thread just doesnt attract their interest because the topic is old news to the btc vetrans) will be merited by the regular "rank and file" members as the pool of people with spendable sMerits expands.




You got it bud. I gave you merit as I appreciate the post and I know you will pay it forwards..


thanks Smiley

since this merit thing happened ive been more or less aimlessly cruising around the forum looks for posts to merit.
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Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
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jamalaezaz
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Sovryn - 300-500% APY on USDT Deposit


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January 27, 2018, 08:13:28 PM
 #1582

why this hero member got 1000 Merits?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=675421

any idea?

Because of this change:

I decided that the previous allocation was too unfair in this area, so everyone with activity >= 775 got 500 more merit if they didn't already have 1000 merit (and also Lutpin). No extra sMerit, though.

I missed it by only some posts as well.
Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose Cheesy
fuck.. we should get at least 900 Merits then.. we are also close to that activity number.

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muleroaa
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GIF by SOCIFI


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January 27, 2018, 08:18:38 PM
 #1583

I think it's a great system to purge all the spam and the posts that do not contribute useful additions to the forum although I do think it might be good to have this new system be advertised more, maybe some kind of banner at the top of the forum home page? Or a big bold wall of text just to get peoples attention that there is a new forum system in place so that everyone is aware that they can give out Merit too and that they will have to up the quality of their posts if they hope to ever level up their account.

Anyway, great addition, hoping it will be a lot more pleasant to scroll through threads now without all the obvious spammers Smiley

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YuTü.Co.in
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January 27, 2018, 08:41:20 PM
 #1584

We do not know the participants of this forum, who they are in real life and what their mental abilities are. If a participant has the title of Legendary, can he decide whose posts are useful and constructive? Sorry for such a question.


"sM for everybody, Nurse theymos!!!"

TMAN
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Exchange Bitcoin quickly-https://blockchain.com.do


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January 27, 2018, 08:45:22 PM
 #1585

We do not know the participants of this forum, who they are in real life and what their mental abilities are. If a participant has the title of Legendary, can he decide whose posts are useful and constructive? Sorry for such a question.


Because they have 1000x more experience in bitcoin than you.... that a good enough reason?

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B4RF
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January 27, 2018, 08:56:05 PM
 #1586

We do not know the participants of this forum, who they are in real life and what their mental abilities are. If a participant has the title of Legendary, can he decide whose posts are useful and constructive? Sorry for such a question.


Because they have 1000x more experience in bitcoin than you.... that a good enough reason?

I dont know how to feel about that argument. My account is one and a half years older then this guys account.

why this hero member got 1000 Merits?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=675421

any idea?

I know I could have made more posts but I never really cared about becoming a Legendary member.
But getting a deficit which is that huge is really a bummer.


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CobraJ
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January 27, 2018, 09:06:22 PM
Last edit: January 27, 2018, 09:20:31 PM by CobraJ
 #1587

The positive of this Merit System is that it will decrease shitposting in the context of sig campaigns.

The obvious negative is that it will drive begging and circlejerking.

Still have mixed feelings about it.. one thing is for sure; the positive results will take time to arrive since old (buy at least 1yr active) accounts are automatically being given all Merit they need. So the increase of post quality will come only from the newer account (newbies, junior and members specifically) as there's smaller incentive for existing senior/hero/leg to get Merit points.

A distributed system attempts to access an API data source, but since the nodes need not execute the instructions simultaneously, the data provided by the API can yield different results. Hence you need to build some kind of time to API value lookup table; formally called oracle.
HabBear
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January 27, 2018, 09:51:38 PM
Merited by Vod (1)
 #1588

Please accept my apologies if this has been discussed, I'm not reading through 82 pages.


Currently, the forum's general protocol frowns heavily on the act of asking for positive trust in return for a transaction. Hell, I've been given negative trust (unfairly) for simply stating that I would conduct a transaction for free if the other person would consider giving me trust equal to the experience.

Should the sam rule apply, more seriously, to merit?

I just came across a post where someone explained a simple idea and then said "if you like my idea, send me merit." There is no negative merit, so an ask like this seems more serious than asking for trust.

What's the consensus here, if someone is asking for merit should they be penalized or ostracized or "corrected" as to the correct forum protocol to not do so?
freedoge.co
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January 27, 2018, 09:56:18 PM
 #1589

wow this Merit topic is on every thread in Meta, someone please start subreddit for it already Grin 

Godwans
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Heya Homies


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January 27, 2018, 09:56:50 PM
 #1590

Please accept my apologies if this has been discussed, I'm not reading through 82 pages.


Currently, the forum's general protocol frowns heavily on the act of asking for positive trust in return for a transaction. Hell, I've been given negative trust (unfairly) for simply stating that I would conduct a transaction for free if the other person would consider giving me trust equal to the experience.

Should the sam rule apply, more seriously, to merit?

I just came across a post where someone explained a simple idea and then said "if you like my idea, send me merit." There is no negative merit, so an ask like this seems more serious than asking for trust.

What's the consensus here, if someone is asking for merit should they be penalized or ostracized or "corrected" as to the correct forum protocol to not do so?

To be honest, i would not ask for merit but, i see selling it as a far worse thing.

This is my siggy
Lutpin
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January 27, 2018, 09:58:01 PM
Merited by StarLawl (1)
 #1591

Should the sam rule apply, more seriously, to merit?
Yes, no, and maybe.
There are threads where people actively search for recommendations on posts to merit, going there and suggesting posts (even if they are your own) is alright, it's even wanted. I dont see harm in it.
Another case would it be when you are sending unsolicited PMs to people who you suspect to have big amounts of sMerit. Here it should be 100% not allowed. Aggressive begging cant be tolerated.
When it comes to a post/thread, imo it depends on the content of it. Some threads currently ask for donations, and that's OK. They could ask for merit donations instead of BTC donations, I would find that OK.
Some threads have avertisements, and that's Ok, similar situation. This does not apply to all threads/posts alike, I think it's something everyone has to determine for themselve individually. Find your own line.

I just came across a post where someone explained a simple idea and then said "if you like my idea, send me merit." There is no negative merit, so an ask like this seems more serious than asking for trust.
An easy way to punish them is not giving them any merit, even if the post would deserve some.

wow this Merit topic is on every thread in Meta, someone please start subreddit for it already
15 minutes of fame. In a week, everyone will get used to it and it's business as usual, hacked accounts and banned spammers.

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B4RF
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January 27, 2018, 10:05:46 PM
 #1592

Should the sam rule apply, more seriously, to merit?
Yes, no, and maybe.
There are threads where people actively search for recommendations on posts to merit, going there and suggesting posts (even if they are your own) is alright, it's even wanted. I dont see harm in it.
Another case would it be when you are sending unsolicited PMs to people who you suspect to have big amounts of sMerit. Here it should be 100% not allowed. Aggressive begging cant be tolerated.
When it comes to a post/thread, imo it depends on the content of it. Some threads currently ask for donations, and that's OK. They could ask for merit donations instead of BTC donations, I would find that OK.
Some threads have avertisements, and that's Ok, similar situation. This does not apply to all threads/posts alike, I think it's something everyone has to determine for themselve individually. Find your own line.


I dont know if I should post this but I already got a pm like that.
What are the consequences for someone doing it?


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Lutpin
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January 27, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
 #1593

Another case would it be when you are sending unsolicited PMs to people who you suspect to have big amounts of sMerit. Here it should be 100% not allowed. Aggressive begging cant be tolerated.
I dont know if I should post this but I already got a pm like that. What are the consequences for someone doing it?
That's a shortcut towards landing on my PM ignore list.

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TMAN
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January 27, 2018, 10:08:42 PM
 #1594

Should the sam rule apply, more seriously, to merit?
Yes, no, and maybe.
There are threads where people actively search for recommendations on posts to merit, going there and suggesting posts (even if they are your own) is alright, it's even wanted. I dont see harm in it.
Another case would it be when you are sending unsolicited PMs to people who you suspect to have big amounts of sMerit. Here it should be 100% not allowed. Aggressive begging cant be tolerated.
When it comes to a post/thread, imo it depends on the content of it. Some threads currently ask for donations, and that's OK. They could ask for merit donations instead of BTC donations, I would find that OK.
Some threads have avertisements, and that's Ok, similar situation. This does not apply to all threads/posts alike, I think it's something everyone has to determine for themselve individually. Find your own line.


I dont know if I should post this but I already got a pm like that.
What are the consequences for someone doing it?

Name them and shame them bud, I have given loads out and only had a few PM's of thanks - no begging, if I had begging ones I would be naming, shaming and asking DT to neg.

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erfan55
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January 27, 2018, 10:23:58 PM
 #1595

Next days in other forums or facebook, twitter, there will be thousands topics  of selling Merit :|

I need 10 Merit to become a Member :|
lenoli
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January 27, 2018, 10:27:47 PM
Merited by TMAN (1)
 #1596

Next days in other forums or facebook, twitter, there will be thousands topics  of selling Merit :|

I need 10 Merit to become a Member :|

you can just try to make good and constructive posts other members will give you merit for it. Merit system was just created for it, try hard and you will succeed

good luck...
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January 27, 2018, 10:47:28 PM
 #1597

In local board a sad problem. Many users with high rank (Legendary - Hero) send their sMerit into the void (for example, send sMerit theymos-satoshi or other inactive users with old messages), thereby leading sMerit out of circulation.

Example:



Original message:
вoт жaль чтo мoжнo тoлькo 50 мepитoв мoжнo oтпpaвить xoтeл вce мepиты oтпpaвить тeймocy a пoлyчилocь тoлькo 50  ( дpyзьям я oтпpaвлял пo 20 )  coвeтyю вceм лeгeндapи cдeлaть тoжe caмoe oтпpaвить вce мepиты eмy

Translate:
it's a pity that you can only send 50 merits you want to send all merits send theymosand it turned out only 50 (friends I sent to 20) I advise all the legendaries to do the same thing to send all merits to him

Seems to me that Peloso and those kind of disrupters should be banned because they are not really constructive in their sabotage attempts.  They get called out for being abusive with the merits, and then they one up their bullshit.  NOT needed or necessary.

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
Brik03
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January 27, 2018, 10:59:36 PM
 #1598

I agree with the Merit system to ensure that there is no spam or meaningless messages used just to make post and activity numbers. But I think it is also right to look at the other side of this change. Members who were already Legendary depart with 1000 Merit while those who were in Hero (maybe even near the Legendary) will start with 500 Merit. An exaggeration in my opinion. All is well but we must also give the opportunity to the new to go up in grade or at least to put everyone on the same level.
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January 27, 2018, 11:08:03 PM
Merited by pawel7777 (1)
 #1599


I think that biggest problem of this merit system is that a lot of people is not using it. They simply ignore it.

Could visibility be increased changing the "+merit" color?

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January 27, 2018, 11:18:41 PM
Merited by coinsniperX (1)
 #1600

Merit is a new system where older users can withhold merit from younger users so they can't rank up and earn all the bounties!

I don't think so, just look at this thread, a lot of higher rank members are already giving merits to lower rank members. This new method is not about hoarding bounties, this is about preserving the quality of the forum. There are a lot of forums in the internet that are already using the merit system in terms of likes and upvotes and so far it's been helping improve the quality of their forums.

Not sure you can say that at this stage though.. just because a trickle of new users in this thread (maybe 10% or so) are getting merit doesn't mean it's working. A lot are getting merit just because they are complaining that they don't have any merit and that it's unfair lol.

Out there in the wild: it may turn out that new users seldom get any merit at all.

Check this young account out..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2828014.0

right attitude, quality post.. lots of merit from lots of people.. it is working fella



Again, that is just one sample, one data point. It could even just be an anomaly.

For every one user that makes a hot post/thread and gets tons of merit. You could have 99 users who get next to nothing or anything substantial.

Well, I am not sure that this is a very appropriate case study. Or are you willing to tell me that the only way to get merits is to make threads and posts where you unconditionally praise the new rules with a deferential attitude? BTW, I happen to agree with every line written in that OP as I have also stated in one post of mine in that same thread. But in that same post I've also outlined what in my opinion will not work with this new system.


I have a personality and a way of writing that does not appeal to very many people; however, if I had a lower rank or I was just coming to the forum, I may consider either modifying my way of posting to rank up or just keeping with my regular style and to find out whether I receive very many merits. 

Even if you do not rank up, you are not really hurt either way in terms of being able to communicate ideas and to brainstorm ideas, and no one is stopping you from posting your ideas.  I have found that my style and my ideas resonate with some folks (that seems to be a kind of minority), and they do not resonate with others, yet over the years, I have pretty much stuck to my guns, and it seems to work out o.k. with me in terms of various forums and also in terms of my real world interactions.   

I have marked bold the crucial part of your post. That's actually the problem. To rank up (right or wrong most people want to rank up, be it because they want to run signature campaigns, be it for simple reasons of prestige) people WILL change the way they are posting, but the move may not be in the desired direction. I will make an example to make this case clear.

Sure, there are going to be some folks who change their behavior more than others in order to adapt to the new system and what they are attempting to achieve.

I don't know if you are familiar with the DeepOnion project and how it unfolded. As soon as their "airdrop" (in fact a signature campaign) had become economically valuable, many people wanted to join it. But in the community there were also a lot of critical voices, who were raising doubts and critics. They all got banned from the airdrop and their critical posts were deleted from the thread. Which has been the consequence? The consequence has been that this "system of reward and punishment" has selected a community made only by people fanatically in favor of the status quo. I am not judging the quality of that project here, I'm just exposing a pattern of human behavior.

You even seem to concede that this DeepOnion project might not be a good example because it is such an extreme, and I find it difficult to give much weight to such a comparison when you are providing attributes that do not really exist with this forum, the management of this forum or Theymos.

Yeah, fuck, Theymos has been accused of having various controlling and censoring tendencies and he has even been accused of running off with donations, but a vast majority of those accusations are pure bullshit.  Sure, there is going to be some factual evidence to support these kinds of accusations, but if you spend enough time around here, you will tend to find that there is a considerable amount of decentralization and even tolerance of a variety of views, and various kinds of proposals to change the systems are attempts to improve the space or to adapt to changes in the community too.


Of course you cannot compare the new rules of BCT with that totalitarian management of DeepOnion's thread, but both has something in common: they end up rewarding those who praise the system and the status quo and punish those who raise a critical voice.

Yeah.. you admit an extreme comparison, yet you still want to assert that there is similarities.  O.k.

And you can already see the first signs of such a tendence here in these threads about the new merit system. Juniors who are posting here to praise the system get plenty of merits, critical voices don't.

Sure there is some truth to your assertion, but folks who frame matters in terms of positive terms are likely to get more praise than negative nancies.  That is the way of the world.  Do you want to hang around folks who are constantly complaining?  I tend to filter those kinds of toxic folks out of my life to the extent feasible.

Certainly there are ways to have constructive feedback without coming off as a whiner and certainly there are ways to be critical without going on some stupid-ass tirade.  Accordingly, I think that if folks are able to be constructively critical, then they can still earn merits. 

By the way, I feel similar about bitcoin bashers.. there are a lot of fucking whiners, and if you are going to whine about it, then you need to bring a whole hell of a lot more evidence (and logic) to the table to overcome my already informed views about the fundamental strengths of bitcoin.   


Which do you think will be the consequences long term?
DeepOnion's thread has rapidly become unreadable, consisting in a mere chorus of enthusiastic hyping statements.
What will happen to Bitcointalk?

Again, you are making an inadequate comparison.  I think that theymos is making these implementations in good faith, and surely I hope that he has folks helping him out because sometimes, it can be quite overwhelming to figure out all the good, bad and the ugly going on with any kind of new system, and how it might disparately impact some folks.  I personally think that the initial merit distribution should have been based on a kind of prorata based on activity level rather than giving the minimum merit for each rank, and I have repeated this a few times (as have a few other posters), but sometimes it may not be easy to go back and retroactively fix - even though we see that out of "fairness" Theymos had retroactively gone back and gave 1000 merits rather than 500 merits to those members with 775 or higher activity levels at the time of the distribution.


Shitposting will be reduced - and this is GOOD.

It should be.


But variety of opinions will as well shrink, because of natural selection. You'll have less shitposting but much more buttlickingposting. And worse of all, more and more a single line of thought.

Maybe, there might be more butt kissing posts, perhaps?  Overall, I think that people will still post what they want, and probably, the more likely outcome, they may put a bit more effort into some of their posts considering that they might earn some merits if they back up their position a bit better, rather than just typing one liners (conclusions only).

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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