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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 150167 times)
B4RF
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January 28, 2018, 06:30:42 PM
Merited by TMAN (1)
 #1721

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy


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TMAN
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January 28, 2018, 06:37:45 PM
 #1722

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

BURN.. these newbies have no idea

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AshCoins
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January 28, 2018, 06:55:45 PM
 #1723

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

It takes years to go from hero to legendary anyway.  I’m less than 3 weeks away from hitting the senior post count.  If you can’t see how that’s unfair then I don’t know what to tell you.

What would make it fair is perhaps a one time sitewide donation option to those that were within a certain percentage of making the next rank at the time the merit system was implemented.  For example if you make the thread count by the end of February, you can donate .03 btc or something to the site as a one time offering to all members. 
B4RF
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January 28, 2018, 07:00:45 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #1724

Maybe it would have been best not to create a new value for the merit but simply use the activity the same as it is used for time and activity right now.

So instead of this

The activity number is determined in this way:
time = number of two-week periods in which you've posted since your registration
activity = min(time * 14, posts)

We would have used:
activity = min(time * 14, posts, merit)

and everyone would have gotten the same initial merit as his activity at the time of the change.

This way nobody would have been affected in his current rank by a positiv or negative direction and we would still only use activity instead of an additional counter on all accounts.


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kiddo
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January 28, 2018, 07:01:29 PM
 #1725

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

It takes years to go from hero to legendary anyway.  I’m less than 3 weeks away from hitting the senior post count.  If you can’t see how that’s unfair then I don’t know what to tell you.

What would make it fair is perhaps a one time sitewide donation option to those that were within a certain percentage of making the next rank at the time the merit system was implemented.  For example if you make the thread count by the end of February, you can donate .03 btc or something to the site as a one time offering to all members. 

I was few days away from becoming a Sr.member in here, now I'm few years. But, it is what it is.
TMAN
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January 28, 2018, 07:01:31 PM
 #1726

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

It takes years to go from hero to legendary anyway.  I’m less than 3 weeks away from hitting the senior post count.  If you can’t see how that’s unfair then I don’t know what to tell you.

What would make it fair is perhaps a one time sitewide donation option to those that were within a certain percentage of making the next rank at the time the merit system was implemented.  For example if you make the thread count by the end of February, you can donate .03 btc or something to the site as a one time offering to all members. 

What would be fair is if people stopped moaning and being selfish and put as much effort into constructing decent quality posts that help people

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btcton
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January 28, 2018, 07:03:37 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #1727

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that.  

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

It takes years to go from hero to legendary anyway.  I’m less than 3 weeks away from hitting the senior post count.  If you can’t see how that’s unfair then I don’t know what to tell you.

What would make it fair is perhaps a one time sitewide donation option to those that were within a certain percentage of making the next rank at the time the merit system was implemented.  For example if you make the thread count by the end of February, you can donate .03 btc or something to the site as a one time offering to all members.  

I am really not a fan of this approach. Anything that relates donations of BTC to the merit system could potentially be seen as buying your merit. Even if it is just in very specific cases like the one you just mentioned where a person has to be able to reach a target rank within a certain amount of time would be too much, in my opinion, as it would benefit those who are actually willing to pay up with no regard to the points that the merit system stands for. I do understand that it can feel unfair, and I do agree you make a good point as Vod mentioned a few pages back, but there are better ways of resolving this issue. It should either be free or not happen at all. The course of action is for theymos to decide himself.

EDIT: 3 new replies in the time I wrote this post. This thread is getting out of hand.

Nothing to say.
JayJuanGee
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January 28, 2018, 07:23:55 PM
 #1728

Hi guys, maybe i sing a same song and you tired about those texts, i agreed that system is good and needed, but little glitch is about quality of posts, for example i make quite quality posts and help people as i can, but nobody is not sent even 1 merit, and i don't know when i will be reach next rank by merit count, cause you can't force somebody to say thanks by merit, even when you truly help someone  Smiley

I shre your sentiment. I hv posted a question here but noone seems to bother reading it nor reply it. Is it because i'm a newbie so not worth to reply? Or many r being selective reader?

I also saw someone posted a comment with similar meaning as mine but that person got merit point. Maybe i am in everyone's ignore list hahahaaa...


Sometimes it takes a while to get known or noticed, especially difficult in a thread like this that has so many pages of posts in such a short period of time.  Sometimes your posts or questions do not get answered, and sometimes you can reiterate them, or go to another thread, and don't be so sensitive about it... sooner or later good things happen, as long as you continue to put forth positive energy, rather than getting drawn down into negative and pity me thinking.



Hi guys, maybe i sing a same song and you tired about those texts, i agreed that system is good and needed, but little glitch is about quality of posts, for example i make quite quality posts and help people as i can, but nobody is not sent even 1 merit, and i don't know when i will be reach next rank by merit count, cause you can't force somebody to say thanks by merit, even when you truly help someone  Smiley

I shre your sentiment. I hv posted a question here but noone seems to bother reading it nor reply it. Is it because i'm a newbie so not worth to reply? Or many r being selective reader?

I also saw someone posted a comment with similar meaning as mine but that person got merit point. Maybe i am in everyone's ignore list hahahaaa...

I've mentioned this before, but i will again: i think a lot of people just skip over or ignore posts from newbies as they assume their spam/worthless posts. I think it is going to take a very long time for a lot of people to rank up any. Of course some will, but i think the majority will remain low ranked regardless of quality of posts.

Exhibit A, above.


Negative and pity me thinking.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
ibinsad
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January 28, 2018, 07:29:23 PM
 #1729

Maybe it would have been best not to create a new value for the merit but simply use the activity the same as it is used for time and activity right now.

So instead of this

The activity number is determined in this way:
time = number of two-week periods in which you've posted since your registration
activity = min(time * 14, posts)

We would have used:
activity = min(time * 14, posts, merit)

and everyone would have gotten the same initial merit as his activity at the time of the change.

This way nobody would have been affected in his current rank by a positiv or negative direction and we would still only use activity instead of an additional counter on all accounts.

But this approach may not stop the daily spam.

Also merit rating system can't stop really so much.

The spammer have a workaround for that solution just creating a couple of accounts and deliver the merit from them to few of their accounts increasing the rank of them.

I think only great content posts win.
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January 28, 2018, 07:37:08 PM
Merited by TMAN (2)
 #1730

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

Well B4RF, you have been a forum member almost as long as me, so you are correct that your post count has caused you to not move up in ranks, and if you had been at least minimally active in ever two week activity period, you would have earned enough activity points to have become legendary a year ago (something like that). 

So, yeah, none of us knew this change was coming, but those of us who remained active benefited by this unexpected change based on activity level (which includes posting regularly).

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
BCTBF
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January 28, 2018, 07:40:51 PM
 #1731

This system is good enough in my opinion that this forum is maintained well quality. But what if giving merit to friends and friends will give a merit back on us? Is it permissible or is it an offense? and does give the merit on a thread of signature campaign it's right?
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January 28, 2018, 07:42:44 PM
 #1732

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

Well B4RF, you have been a forum member almost as long as me, so you are correct that your post count has caused you to not move up in ranks, and if you had been at least minimally active in ever two week activity period, you would have earned enough activity points to have become legendary a year ago (something like that). 

So, yeah, none of us knew this change was coming, but those of us who remained active benefited by this unexpected change based on activity level (which includes posting regularly).

i've been a member nearly a year longer than you, but I did take a hiatus from posting for 18 months after some losses to scams, (ASICMINER & LABCOIN) I am not moaning about it though, just see it as a challenge to earn the merits needed.

Some of these newbies haven't been through the rise and fall of bitcoin like some of us.. $250-$80 in a matter of hours, MTGOX going pop! SR going down... all these things don't matter to the newbies moaning as they feel entitled, like spoiled little children.

if you can type a coherent post, and be positive and helpful in the community then senior guys and sources will splash Merits.. its not rocket science..

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JayJuanGee
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January 28, 2018, 07:43:16 PM
 #1733

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

It takes years to go from hero to legendary anyway.  I’m less than 3 weeks away from hitting the senior post count.  If you can’t see how that’s unfair then I don’t know what to tell you.

What would make it fair is perhaps a one time sitewide donation option to those that were within a certain percentage of making the next rank at the time the merit system was implemented.  For example if you make the thread count by the end of February, you can donate .03 btc or something to the site as a one time offering to all members. 

I think that pro-rata distribution based on activity rather than minimum distribution based on rank would have been a more fair distribution.  I don't think that Theymos was trying to be unfair, but I don't know how easy it would be to implement a pro-rata distribution to even out some of the seeming merit distribution imbalances.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
JayJuanGee
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January 28, 2018, 07:59:59 PM
 #1734

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

Well B4RF, you have been a forum member almost as long as me, so you are correct that your post count has caused you to not move up in ranks, and if you had been at least minimally active in ever two week activity period, you would have earned enough activity points to have become legendary a year ago (something like that). 

So, yeah, none of us knew this change was coming, but those of us who remained active benefited by this unexpected change based on activity level (which includes posting regularly).

i've been a member nearly a year longer than you, but I did take a hiatus from posting for 18 months after some losses to scams, (ASICMINER & LABCOIN) I am not moaning about it though, just see it as a challenge to earn the merits needed.

Some of these newbies haven't been through the rise and fall of bitcoin like some of us.. $250-$80 in a matter of hours, MTGOX going pop! SR going down... all these things don't matter to the newbies moaning as they feel entitled, like spoiled little children.

if you can type a coherent post, and be positive and helpful in the community then senior guys and sources will splash Merits.. its not rocket science..

Hahahahaha...

I had not noticed that you were a member of the forum a year long than me, but your explanation makes sense, and yes, I see the date in your forum profile. 

So, yeah, there is nothing wrong with having disagreements with a system, yet you are correct that a whining approach is likely to get you no where quickly.  There are also ways to be innovative, such as the level up approach that you took.  Of course, not everyone is going to agree with it, and some people will even dislike you for it, but it still seems to be a vehicle to attempt for you to make some of your points to encourage positive posts, and those points/goals are not contrary to those of the forum (in fact they line up).

Also, the point has been made several times, that if you merely want to read posts, you don't necessarily need to rank up, but sometimes if you want to be "taken more seriously" in your posts, then rank does seem to have its benefits- especially in a place like this that has a decent number of disingenuous posters (otherwise known as trolls).

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
Darthswan
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January 28, 2018, 08:04:46 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #1735

I think that pro-rata distribution based on activity rather than minimum distribution based on rank would have been a more fair distribution.  I don't think that Theymos was trying to be unfair, but I don't know how easy it would be to implement a pro-rata distribution to even out some of the seeming merit distribution imbalances.

There are many ways to have a proportional division.
for example on the site there is total time logged in:
or Date Registered:
can be included here Activity:
and combine different options ...

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TMAN
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January 28, 2018, 08:06:22 PM
 #1736

snip

Hahahahaha...

I had not noticed that you were a member of the forum a year long than me, but your explanation makes sense, and yes, I see the date in your forum profile. 

So, yeah, there is nothing wrong with having disagreements with a system, yet you are correct that a whining approach is likely to get you no where quickly.  There are also ways to be innovative, such as the level up approach that you took.  Of course, not everyone is going to agree with it, and some people will even dislike you for it, but it still seems to be a vehicle to attempt for you to make some of your points to encourage positive posts, and those points/goals are not contrary to those of the forum (in fact they line up).

Also, the point has been made several times, that if you merely want to read posts, you don't necessarily need to rank up, but sometimes if you want to be "taken more seriously" in your posts, then rank does seem to have its benefits- especially in a place like this that has a decent number of disingenuous posters (otherwise known as trolls).
[/quote]

bud I am hated by many and loved by many.. sod sitting on the fence, I just wanted to pay it forward, it just happened that plenty of other people liked what I was suggesting, so I have kept on making it rain on newbies and legendary's alike.

if I dont level up... no biggy, I mean this is the 1st sig campaign I have ever been in.. no odds if its my last.

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anushkasachith888
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January 28, 2018, 08:47:56 PM
 #1737

I think I made useful threads before merit system to be introduced. Now I have to make useful threads again in order to gain merits. But I don't know whether I will be eligible for gaining merits. It pushed me away from getting up ranking to member from Jr. member.  Cry  And I don't know how to offer merits and who gives us merits
But I like the concept. now people will use this forum for useful threads instead bullshits.
I learn many things from  this forum. So I am thankful to it.

B4RF
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January 28, 2018, 08:54:09 PM
 #1738

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that. 

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

Well B4RF, you have been a forum member almost as long as me, so you are correct that your post count has caused you to not move up in ranks, and if you had been at least minimally active in ever two week activity period, you would have earned enough activity points to have become legendary a year ago (something like that). 

So, yeah, none of us knew this change was coming, but those of us who remained active benefited by this unexpected change based on activity level (which includes posting regularly).

I was actually active for many more periods then my activity is shown I think but I simply didnt do a ratio of 1 post per day.

And I dont really understand why a higher post ratio makes you more likely to be able to spread merit to others but yeah nobody knew this would come around so I guess everyone missing a rank by some posts needs to go along with it.

Btw I am not moaning since I dont really need the Legendary status right now since I didnt even used a signature campaign for quite some time.
I was just curious about the initial thought why this merit system has been implemented like this.

Nobody will do such a big change without spending much time about the consequences and benefits therefore I think there has to be a reason for this decision.


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JayJuanGee
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January 28, 2018, 09:17:39 PM
 #1739

150 additional merits to go from full member to senior member seems excessive and unfair frankly to those of us that were almost there.  It will take years to reach that.  

How cute...I am a potential Legendary member (only missing the post count) and I got only 500 Merit instead of 1000.

So be happy that you only got screwed by less then 150  Cheesy

Well B4RF, you have been a forum member almost as long as me, so you are correct that your post count has caused you to not move up in ranks, and if you had been at least minimally active in ever two week activity period, you would have earned enough activity points to have become legendary a year ago (something like that).  

So, yeah, none of us knew this change was coming, but those of us who remained active benefited by this unexpected change based on activity level (which includes posting regularly).

I was actually active for many more periods then my activity is shown I think but I simply didnt do a ratio of 1 post per day.

And I dont really understand why a higher post ratio makes you more likely to be able to spread merit to others but yeah nobody knew this would come around so I guess everyone missing a rank by some posts needs to go along with it.

Btw I am not moaning since I dont really need the Legendary status right now since I didnt even used a signature campaign for quite some time.
I was just curious about the initial thought why this merit system has been implemented like this.

Nobody will do such a big change without spending much time about the consequences and benefits therefore I think there has to be a reason for this decision.

I think that there are a couple of points here that I could elaborate on, but I don't claim to know everything either, even if I have spent more hours on the forum.  

Regarding activity, I think that if you are averaging more than 14 posts per two weeks, then you will get all of the 14 activity points for each activity period even if you only post a couple of posts in the most recent activity period. However, when you start to go below a 14 posts per two weeks average, then you receive fewer activity points.  Something like that.   So I have mostly kept my average up above 14 per two weeks, and I think that there was only a few two week periods that I did not post anything, so I did not receive any activity points for those few two week periods.

Of course, according to OP, the amount of smerit you received was related to your current rank and the amount of activity that you had in the past year.  I believe that based on my being active for every period in the past year, I earned the maximum for my rank, which was 200 smerits.

Regarding rashness in implementing this system, it likely goes without saying that a guy like theymos doesn't achieve success in building/running such a large forum as this one without having some abilities for introspection and retrospection, so I doubt that this new merit system is built on rashness, arbitrariness or lack of weighing various possible pros and cons.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
Kavallo
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January 28, 2018, 09:31:55 PM
Merited by PoolMinor (2)
 #1740

Merit is a new system where older users can withhold merit from younger users so they can't rank up and earn all the bounties!

I don't think so, just look at this thread, a lot of higher rank members are already giving merits to lower rank members. This new method is not about hoarding bounties, this is about preserving the quality of the forum. There are a lot of forums in the internet that are already using the merit system in terms of likes and upvotes and so far it's been helping improve the quality of their forums.

Not sure you can say that at this stage though.. just because a trickle of new users in this thread (maybe 10% or so) are getting merit doesn't mean it's working. A lot are getting merit just because they are complaining that they don't have any merit and that it's unfair lol.

Out there in the wild: it may turn out that new users seldom get any merit at all.

Check this young account out..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2828014.0

right attitude, quality post.. lots of merit from lots of people.. it is working fella



Again, that is just one sample, one data point. It could even just be an anomaly.

For every one user that makes a hot post/thread and gets tons of merit. You could have 99 users who get next to nothing or anything substantial.

Two more days have passed, which have proved that this was an anomaly... and at the same time a paradigmatic example of the new non written rule.
Go through the thread and look: Low ranked don't usually get merits, unless they praise the new rules. This is not a theory, these are the facts - you could even start to make a statistics counting how many people of which rank have got X many merits and by writing what. Low ranking people have no sMerits to give or just a few. Now only high ranking member can give sMerits and they usually give them to each others or to Juniors who praise the new rules. I am afraid that the new non written rule is that if you want to rank up you have to reflect the opinion of the high ranking. Time will tell, but you have a good vision you'll see that it is already telling exactly this now. I think I don't nee to tell you where this will lead to.

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