[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[blade87]

I wish DRK had the hash power of LTC. If DRK took its features and combined it with the hash power and network security of LTC, damn what a coin that would be. A second for sure to BTC.

[patrolman]

You are totally missing face to face transactions where there is no back end infrastructure, like paying on a vending machine, buying something on a traffic light or making a quick donation. Also meeting your dealer to buy half an ounce of weed

That is, and always will be, a payment processor's market.

Can I remember you that actually to reverse back a payment it is not so simple.
Generally they must call the supervisor with THE key to reserve transaction. And always wait lot of time for this guy/gals to come and make this possible.

Because the ‘payment processor’ layer the buffers the blockchain can be adapted to the merchant’s requirements. No matter how fast a blockchain confirmation time is, supermarkets will ALWAYS contract payment processors to buffer their transactions because it gives them a huge amount of flexibility and speed.

A blockchain based technology will never out-perform a payment processor on speed, POS features, reliability, or ubiquity. They are just completely different economic roles.

...it was never the design priority of the blockchain to do that and DRK should not be trying to either. It's something that's far to far ahead of its time.

Garnering value to a cryptocurrency (any cryptocurrency) is far more important. We have to distinguish between money and technological convenience. They are very different things. Darkcoin set itself the goal of adding 1 property and 1 only to Bitcoin's 'perfect' design and that was financial privacy.

It should stick to that objective. The market will reward Darkcoin for sticking to a highly prioritised objective to the exclusion of everything else.

Darkcoin has perfectly shadowed bitcoin in all aspects - including the commercial interface - except anonymity. Bitcoin's slow block confirmation time is now being seen as a reference standard for security and reliability (remember, banks are 1-2 days, payment processors just make it look like it's faster by buffering everything).

A 20 second confirmation time will just look ridiculous to serious businesses. They won't find it credible.

DRK needs to continue to shadow Bitcoin in this regard as long as it remains the reference standard, and keep the 20 seconds in its pocket for a rainy day.

I  think you're getting ahead of yourself a bit. Before you start talking about mass POS adoption, more adoption has to take place between indivuals. InstantX is a feature which will be received in the crypto community, and will most probably lead to wider adoption, especially combined with strong anonymity. I do agree that the anonymity should be the main focal point.

Perhaps by the time cryptocurrencies are ready for POS integration, terrabit internet connections will be common and the InstantX transaction time will be reduced even further, the difference in processing time being imperceptible to those buying in the supermarket queue.

[strix]

Not sure to take your point.
Anyway btc even if it is slow is not reversable at all...

And for me cresit card are not reversable either.

While I think both sides of this discussion are bringing up interesting points, to a certain extent this conversation is mute. Evan has made clear that IX is his next priority, and I don't think we are going to change his mind.

That said, we are a long way from payment processors taking on DRK, and the digital cash aspect brought about by IX will likely fuel the next wave of adoption by gambling aficionados and face-to-face transactors. For my own part, I envision no DRK transactions requiring IX, though my own extensive use will be restricted until the name is changed.  

@Tokenormal; if it makes you feel any better, I would suggest that BTC is already too fast for integration with existing payment processors and requires new facilitators such as Coinbase and Bitpay to fill the gap, and that they do it off the blockchain. The same solution will work with DRK, with or without IX, so I don't think it will be a hindrance; it will merely require new players to fill the space, or more likely, vendors will treat it like cash and not use processors for those transactions... "Whoops, those cornflakes aren't mine, please send me my DRK back... OK, got thanks... Oh and give me that gum--here's your DRK, thanks."

I do agree completely that the fungibility and privacy aspects are paramount. As a result of the animosity that this will draw from certain quarters, I think that IP obfuscation needs to be high on the list of priorities, along with improved wallet security and idiot proofing. In the meantime I will keep scrounging to get my masternode.

[toknormal]

That said, we are a long way from payment processors taking on DRK

Did you just make that remark up off the top of your head or is it based on a few day's research you did ? I often never know with these kind of profound generalisations.

The thing is this:

Over the last 25 years all commerce has migrated from non-electronic to electronic platforms.

Imagine you're a 20$ million company. What that means is that half of a million dollars of your turnover goes to to payment processors if all your turnover if paid electronically.

Half a million dollars is not a small amount of money.

Now factor in a statistic of the proportion of that turnover that wants financial privacy (as they have right now).

I'll leave you to do the calcs.

[bigrcanada]

That said, we are a long way from payment processors taking on DRK

Did you just make that remark up off the top of your head or is it based on a few day's research you did ? I often never know with these kind of profound generalisations.

The thing is this:

Over the last 25 years all commerce has migrated from non-electronic to electronic platforms.

Imagine you're a 20$ million company. What that means is that half of a million dollars of your turnover goes to to payment processors if all your turnover if paid electronically.

Half a million dollars is not a small amount of money.

Now factor in a statistic of the proportion of that turnover that wants financial privacy (as they have right now).

I'll leave you to do the calcs.

Hi Tokenormal... Just trying to understand this better... So I'm certainly not calling anything against what you are saying,  how is it that it would be inadvisable to have instant x on DRK transactions at my brick in mortar business? In other words... How would this feature effect me negatively in selling our wine at our tasting room?

[toknormal]

Perhaps by the time cryptocurrencies are ready for POS integration, terrabit internet connections will be common and the InstantX transaction time will be reduced even further, the difference in processing time being imperceptible to those buying in the supermarket queue.

Ouch ! How can I spell this out.

The Bank of England - no matter how valuable their pounds may be - cannot compete with Visa for reversing Mrs Jones's cornflakes packet when it got rung through the wrong end of the checkout belt. The Bank or England do not even interest themselves in that menial phenomenon because there exist multiple firewalls between their role as managers of the monetary base and a particular payment processors role of reversing Mrs Jones's cornflakes charge.

Darkcoin is not - and never will be - a payment processor. So don't try to see it as such.

Darkcoin is a monetary base or it is nothing at all (because Darkcoin isn't 'backed' by anything which is the definition of a monetary base).

Point of sale systems have nothing do do with a particular currency. They are simply a number cruncher machine that buffers lots of little banana sales in a supermarket which later get forwarded to the banking system once all Mrs Jones's misplaced orders have been reversed.

[strix]

That said, we are a long way from payment processors taking on DRK

Did you just make that remark up off the top of your head or is it based on a few day's research you did ? I often never know with these kind of profound generalisations.

The thing is this:

Over the last 25 years all commerce has migrated from non-electronic to electronic platforms.

Imagine you're a 20$ million company. What that means is that half of a million dollars of your turnover goes to to payment processors if all your turnover if paid electronically.

Half a million dollars is not a small amount of money.

Now factor in a statistic of the proportion of that turnover that wants financial privacy (as they have right now).

I'll leave you to do the calcs.

If I were flippant I would say it came from the same place as the bold type in the quote above. (Consider: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2013/03/18/the-new-underground-economy)

But I am not, and you are correct to assume I pulled it out of my arse--so yes, I too was generalizing. My point was that I don't foresee being able to use DRK at the local McD's, Walmart, or paying my electric bill. But again, the folks doing payment processing for BTC are doing it off the blockchain, and the same will probably be done for DRK... if you are correct and there is a demand for such a thing. (No doubt there will be; I just don't see it being significant--especially with the current name.)

Peace to you my friend... and continue to keep us on our toes.

[bigrcanada]

Hi Tokenormal... Just trying to understand this better... So I'm certainly not calling anything against what you are saying,  how is it that it would be inadvisable to have instant x on DRK transactions at my brick in mortar business? In other words... How would this feature effect me negatively in selling our wine at our tasting room?

Ask me that again when your customers are wanting to pay with DRK.

[toknormal]

Hi Tokenormal... Just trying to understand this better... So I'm certainly not calling anything against what you are saying,  how is it that it would be inadvisable to have instant x on DRK transactions at my brick in mortar business? In other words... How would this feature effect me negatively in selling our wine at our tasting room?

Ask me that again when your customers are wanting to pay with DRK.

Much of this discussion is to do with the concept of currency vs money. There is a good case to be made that currency and money are very different things. For example, currency can come and go in an instant. It represents an underlying value by proxy.

For example the Dutch Guilder: When it was a currency, it could be exchanged for things. When it wasn't, it couldn't.

With Gold, it has always been money, not currency. You don't pay for your cornflakes with gold, but it's kind of there, in the background. If everything collapsed it would still be there and would still be able to function as a monetary medium.

Similarly, Darkcoin's job is not to facilitate fast cornflakes packet reversal. It is much more fundamental. It is to function as a monetary medium which means that it doesn't give a sh*t about how fast anyone can transact in DRK.

Ask yourself this:

How fast can you get an ounce of gold delivered to your door ? Does it's speed of delivery impact on it's value favourably adversely ? (i.e. if it had arrived a day earlier would have paid more for it ? If so, how much more ?)

DRK has do decide if it is a private monetary base or a payment platform. It cannot be both. A payments platform (like Visa) transacts with numbers which are denominated in a monetary base but it is not that money. It's just incrementing numbers in one account and decrementing them in another. Visa is nothing. It's just an observer that can count, but it can count faster than Darkcoin or Bitcoin can move gold.

Let Bitcoin / Darkcoin be the gold and Visa be the counter, thats all I'm saying.

Stick with slow confirmation times because they are far more valuable to the general public than fast ones. Let Visa take care of Mrs Jones cornflakes.

P.S. This is a good discussion the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

[bigrcanada]

Hi Tokenormal... Just trying to understand this better... So I'm certainly not calling anything against what you are saying,  how is it that it would be inadvisable to have instant x on DRK transactions at my brick in mortar business? In other words... How would this feature effect me negatively in selling our wine at our tasting room?

Ask me that again when your customers are wanting to pay with DRK.

Truth be told... I've only had a couple dozen clients use DRK. Certainly not burning any sales records.  Possibly it could be that I'm envisioning DRK as Digital cash solution and being that I've hated doing Btc transactions, which I've also done at our shop,  because it takes so long to confirm. And being paranoid that if I let the customer out the shop with a $500.00 case of wine and no recourse if the transaction for some reason fales. I've obviously have had customers go ahead and leave without full verification of the Btc transaction on good faith bases.

I think it's an educational thing that DRK should embark on to explain this fully to retailers/merchants... Is there risks in clients leaving our shops without full verified transactions? I know I'll get my money from Visa/Mastercard within 24 hours...theres a trust layer there... And though I understand that visa is not fiet currency...my Canadian dollar is.   

[bigrcanada]

Hi Tokenormal... Just trying to understand this better... So I'm certainly not calling anything against what you are saying,  how is it that it would be inadvisable to have instant x on DRK transactions at my brick in mortar business? In other words... How would this feature effect me negatively in selling our wine at our tasting room?

Ask me that again when your customers are wanting to pay with DRK.

Truth be told... I've only had a couple dozen clients use DRK. Certainly not burning any sales records.  Possibly it could be that I'm envisioning DRK as Digital cash solution and being that I've hated doing Btc transactions, which I've also done at our shop,  because it takes so long to confirm. And being paranoid that if I let the customer out the shop with a $500.00 case of wine and no recourse if the transaction for some reason fales. I've obviously have had customers go ahead and leave without full verification of the Btc transaction on good faith bases.

I think it's an educational thing that DRK should embark on to explain this fully to retailers/merchants... Is there risks in clients leaving our shops without full verified transactions? I know I'll get my money from Visa/Mastercard within 24 hours...theres a trust layer there... And though I understand that visa is not fiet currency...my Canadian dollar is.   

Edit: just reading your response... Thanks so much for helping me on this...

[bigrcanada]

Hi Tokenormal... Just trying to understand this better... So I'm certainly not calling anything against what you are saying,  how is it that it would be inadvisable to have instant x on DRK transactions at my brick in mortar business? In other words... How would this feature effect me negatively in selling our wine at our tasting room?

Ask me that again when your customers are wanting to pay with DRK.

Much of this discussion is to do with the concept of currency vs money. There is a good case to be made that currency and money are very different things. For example, currency can come and go in an instant. It represents an underlying value by proxy.

For example the Dutch Guilder: When it was a currency, it could be exchanged for things. When it wasn't, it couldn't.

With Gold, it has always been money, not currency. You don't pay for your cornflakes with gold, but it's kind of there, in the background. If everything collapsed it would still be there and would still be able to function as a monetary medium.

Similarly, Darkcoin's job is not to facilitate fast cornflakes packet reversal. It is much more fundamental. It is to function as a monetary medium which means that it doesn't give a sh*t about how fast anyone can transact in DRK.

Ask yourself this:

How fast can you get an ounce of gold delivered to your door ? Does it's speed of delivery impact on it's value favourably adversely ? (i.e. if it had arrived a day earlier would have paid more for it ? If so, how much more ?)

DRK has do decide if it is a private monetary base or a payment platform. It cannot be both. A payments platform (like Visa) transacts with numbers which are denominated in a monetary base but it is not that money. It's just incrementing numbers in one account and decrementing them in another. Visa is nothing. It's just an observer that can count, but it can count faster than Darkcoin or Bitcoin can move gold.

Let Bitcoin / Darkcoin be the gold and Visa be the counter, thats all I'm saying.

Stick with slow confirmation times because they are far more valuable to the general public than fast ones. Let Visa take care of Mrs Jones cornflakes.

P.S. This is a good discussion the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

Thanks... I'll do some more research on this tonight... Tnx for the link.

[toknormal]

[tungfa]

Quaaak !


For daily updates
please see us on Instagram
Darkcoin_DRK

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

The reason that I am not bothered about InstantX and that I think Darkcoin should not be wasting its time on it is that point of sale systems (POS) will never be be doing direct transactions with the blockchain. That will be taken care of by payment processors. The blockchain is a clearing system that is at least 1 tier away from point of sale. It doesn't matter if blockchain confirmation time gets down to 5 seconds, it still will never be able to compete with a buffered point of sale system that can instantly reverse the packet of cornflakes that the cashier accidently rung through from the person behind you in the queue.

This is the dumbest thing I've read from you tok. Why don't you go have a smoke break.

[wozzek23]

*********** Philosophical Alert **************

A 20 second clearing time will just look like a toy.

I concur that you're brilliant and many of your musings I neatly put in my local documents for a future use -- but I just wanted to chime in re: Instant X observation. In our time of instant gratification, a short attention span, a need for emergency (or normal) transactions abroad etc., real time texting etc., I would not deem a fast, reliable clearing time as a toy, rather as the necessity of the times we live in.

Snail mail was as reliable as the slow banking transactions, but is almost entirely replaced (in P2P communication) by an instant e-mail et.al.

My 2 cents. Shrug them off at will and keep posting

[Freckleg]

Tok has a point.

However in crypto payment processing is very much linked to payment accounting (blockchain). And the blockchain is linked to the currency, at least it is for most crypto now. So as long as we have proprietary blockchains linked to coins, fast blockchain validation is important.
There is one major benefit that Darkcoin has over all other coins which you did not list Tok, the master node network. The master node network is more than only privacy, it renders Darkcoin able to provide services other crypto (including ethereum etc) cannot. InstantX is one of those services. Because Darkcoin has a mature master node network it can provide trusted fast transactions. That is not a toy, it is a breakthrough in cryptocurrency. And more importantly the master node network cannot be easily cloned. That makes Darkcoin unique and quite undervalued at the moment.

[qwizzie]

Thanks to UdjinM6 we have a more specific MN payments schedule overview : https://github.com/darkcoin/darkcoin/commit/f3710ec4de72d15a83652de1bc8d6d42c1739198
(with recalculated dates and also the blocknumbers are mentioned at which the MN payment increase comes into effect) :

if(nHeight > 158000)                         ret += blockValue / 20; // 158000 - 25.0% - 2014-10-24
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)* 1))  ret += blockValue / 20; // 175280 - 30.0% - 2014-11-25
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)* 2))  ret += blockValue / 20; // 192560 - 35.0% - 2014-12-26
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)* 3))  ret += blockValue / 40; // 209840 - 37.5% - 2015-01-26
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)* 4))  ret += blockValue / 40; // 227120 - 40.0% - 2015-02-27
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)* 5))  ret += blockValue / 40; // 244400 - 42.5% - 2015-03-30
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)* 6))  ret += blockValue / 40; // 261680 - 45.0% - 2015-05-01
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)* 7))  ret += blockValue / 40; // 278960 - 47.5% - 2015-06-01
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)* 9))  ret += blockValue / 40; // 313520 - 50.0% - 2015-08-03
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*11)) ret += blockValue / 40; // 348080 - 52.5% - 2015-10-05
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*13)) ret += blockValue / 40; // 382640 - 55.0% - 2015-12-07
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*15)) ret += blockValue / 40; // 417200 - 57.5% - 2016-02-08
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*17)) ret += blockValue / 40; // 451760 - 60.0% - 2016-04-11

well done UdjinM6

[tungfa]

[notbatman]

I'm having issues with my Darkcoins...