[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[TanteStefana2]

PS. Can the masternode network act as a "payment processor"? What would be required for it to do so? Do we need a sidechain to do the "counting" so the main chain wouldn't become too large and choke?

Very good points there...

 This last question got me thinking. Like exchanges operate, right? Its just their product is buy/sell orders. So if the MN network were to adopt a payment processor, then that would be a Darkcoin proprietary technology, meaning, despite being open-source, only one processor would be able to exist. If you wanted another, you'd need to create an entirely new and independant MN network feeding off the blockchain. Sidechain is interesting for expansion and scalability and protocol overlaying, but applied to payment processor, you want anything but. Big can of worms...  But in essence, a "simple" payment processor doesn not need a sidechain.

So no, don't think those that would be an good option.

I'm lost......

[RenegadeMan]

Security Advisory for CoinShuffle and Darkwallet

I've posted the security advisory on r/Bitcoin, so far it's just getting downvoted. Can we get some upvotes? It's getting downvoted just because it's from a competing currency, however, they should know that all of the mixing technologies they have presently are broken.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2tmopl/security_advisory_for_coinshuffle_and_darkwallet/

Classic r/bitcoin - Downvote anything from an Altcoin and anything that could hurt their investment. UPVOTE THE HELL OUT OF THIS LINK.

I quite enjoy the thought of all those frothing zealots downvoting my post. I have brought anguish unto their souls, and only through suffering does anyone ever truly learn.

Well the zealots aren't doing too well:

[–]thelonecrouton 6 points 2 hours ago*
Plus there's the Darkwallet being a centralised browser plugin issue...
Darkcoin's trustless mixing, as well as solving the issues mentioned, happens across a distributed platform of currently nearly two thousand Masternodes, with each one in the mixing sequence chosen at random from the total.
Use the right tool for the job. For anonymity/privacy, Bitcoin isn't it.

Upvoted you too.

[TanteStefana2]

...
payment processors will be interested only in reliability, not clearing times.
...

80% of the world will be interested only in clearing times, not payment processors.  You know, that whole centralized vs. decentralized thingy.

...
DRK needs to continue to shadow Bitcoin in this regard as long as it remains the reference standard, and keep the 20 seconds in its pocket for a rainy day.
...

Why would a rainy day be a better time to unleash "instant" transactions if today is not that day?

Also, let the FUD come now, let it all shake out early rather than later.  Just my opinion.  Man, this has been a GREAT discussion everyone!

[Artoodeetoo]

I love all the innovation that goes on with this coin, its all pushing in the right direction as well, and I love the idea too of instantx, its well ahead of the curve....

700k DRK looks like its about to leave the station as well, its stopped in town long enough....

Greece should make for interesting viewing as well tonight.. Popcorn anyone?

[vertoe]

I love all the innovation that goes on with this coin, its all pushing in the right direction as well, and I love the idea too of instantx, its well ahead of the curve....

700k DRK looks like its about to leave the station as well, its stopped in town long enough....

Greece should make for interesting viewing as well tonight.. Popcorn anyone?

go syriza \o/

[eahmadov]

I love all the innovation that goes on with this coin, its all pushing in the right direction as well, and I love the idea too of instantx, its well ahead of the curve....

700k DRK looks like its about to leave the station as well, its stopped in town long enough....

Greece should make for interesting viewing as well tonight.. Popcorn anyone?

Yea, the new Greek leader's first speech was pretty much: "Fuck austerity"

Tsipras says Greece has left behind despair and austerity.“Today we have celebration, tomorrow we start to work hard,” he says. He says the verdict of the Greek people clearly rejects austerity.

[coins101]

...
payment processors will be interested only in reliability, not clearing times.
...

80% of the world will be interested only in clearing times, not payment processors.  You know, that whole centralized vs. decentralized thingy.

I think the instant transaction issue is complicated. Retailers will be offered payment processor solutions that give instant funds clearance. InstantX for retailers is not an issue.

InstantX is important for those that don't want to pay fees to payment processors.  Once crypto payment is widely accepted and retailers don't feel the need to cash out into Fiat, then InstantX will be important. Retailers will want to skip paying payment processors and just use their own wallets. That is the point where they will want instant confirmations for security.

[coins101]

I love all the innovation that goes on with this coin, its all pushing in the right direction as well, and I love the idea too of instantx, its well ahead of the curve....

700k DRK looks like its about to leave the station as well, its stopped in town long enough....

Greece should make for interesting viewing as well tonight.. Popcorn anyone?

Yea, the new Greek leader's first speech was pretty much: "Fuck austerity"

Tsipras says Greece has left behind despair and austerity.“Today we have celebration, tomorrow we start to work hard,” he says. He says the verdict of the Greek people clearly rejects austerity.

Fine.

Just repay the loans.

Cancel Austerity.

His mandate is now to negotiate a 50% write-off of loans.

I'd be happy to take out a $1m mortgage, then phone the bank after a few years and say, look, we've had a family vote and we want you to write off 50% of the mortgage loan.

[eahmadov]

Security Advisory for CoinShuffle and Darkwallet

I've posted the security advisory on r/Bitcoin, so far it's just getting downvoted. Can we get some upvotes? It's getting downvoted just because it's from a competing currency, however, they should know that all of the mixing technologies they have presently are broken.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2tmopl/security_advisory_for_coinshuffle_and_darkwallet/

BUMP

[eahmadov]

I love all the innovation that goes on with this coin, its all pushing in the right direction as well, and I love the idea too of instantx, its well ahead of the curve....

700k DRK looks like its about to leave the station as well, its stopped in town long enough....

Greece should make for interesting viewing as well tonight.. Popcorn anyone?

Yea, the new Greek leader's first speech was pretty much: "Fuck austerity"

Tsipras says Greece has left behind despair and austerity.“Today we have celebration, tomorrow we start to work hard,” he says. He says the verdict of the Greek people clearly rejects austerity.

Fine.

Just repay the loans.

Cancel Austerity.

His mandate is now to negotiate a 50% write-off of loans.

I'd be happy to take out a $1m mortgage, then phone the bank after a few years and say, look, we've had a family vote and we want you to write off 50% of the mortgage loan.

It is not that simple and you know it. Germany has been screwing over the peripheries. Greece is the first one to show the troika middle finger. This is gonna spread like a wildfire to whole Southern Europe. 

[Artoodeetoo]

I love all the innovation that goes on with this coin, its all pushing in the right direction as well, and I love the idea too of instantx, its well ahead of the curve....

700k DRK looks like its about to leave the station as well, its stopped in town long enough....

Greece should make for interesting viewing as well tonight.. Popcorn anyone?

Yea, the new Greek leader's first speech was pretty much: "Fuck austerity"

Tsipras says Greece has left behind despair and austerity.“Today we have celebration, tomorrow we start to work hard,” he says. He says the verdict of the Greek people clearly rejects austerity.

Fine.

Just repay the loans.

Cancel Austerity.

His mandate is now to negotiate a 50% write-off of loans.

I'd be happy to take out a $1m mortgage, then phone the bank after a few years and say, look, we've had a family vote and we want you to write off 50% of the mortgage loan.

It is not that simple and you know it. Germany has been screwing over the peripheries. Greece is the first one to show the troika middle finger. This is gonna spread like a wildfire to whole Southern Europe. 

Exactly, although Germany preaches, the PIGS have kept the euro artificially low, without them it will become like the Swiss franc and make German exports very difficult, although it is perverse, Germany does benefit from having countries like Greece in the Europe and should really do more to assist them as for them to be as productive as Germany is to all intents and purposes impossible, and that is the problem...

[RenegadeMan]

you mean 99 or 299?

I mean 99.

What's the reason for another crash?  I don't get it?

Speculation.

Right now, most of Bitcoin's value has been speculative. In other words it hasn't been needed as a currency and its speculative value as such is available to chart traders to make money on. They can take the value anywhere as long as the monetary value (the amount of Bitcoin that's needed to fill the pipes of retail merchants, international money transfers and all needs other than those of speculative 'gamblers') remains below the market value.

If the Bitcoin price were to go to $99, the marketcap would still be around $1.3 Billion. Probably more than enough to cover the turnover of the current bitcoin economy when you exclude speculative trading.

Remember, Overstock only took around $3 million in bitcoin sales last year. Lets be generous and multiply that by 100 to pretend that Overstock's Bitcoin turnover is only 1% of the industry total. That gives you a marketcap of $300 million which, when you factor in the coin supply, comes out at a bitcoin price of $23 dollars.

So 23$ is the bottom below which it's undervalued. Therefore even at $99, speculative trading would still have a margin over the 'real' monetary value of bitcoin. They are not likely to go below that though because the future prospective monetary value is so high that the speculative premium would be huge at that price level and such a low valuation would be unlikely to last long.

This is why I keep saying that adoption is everything. By garnering adoption you raise the floor below which speculative traders cannot go. Darkcoin has huge mileage to be gained in this domain and, to me it's going about it the right way. By taking the "warts an' all" approach where the problems all come to the surface early, thereby keeping the speculative premium low. The developer team can try things out and on a community that's reasonably accommodating and keep the balance between consolidation and development at an optimum without causing huge disruption in the markets. (The tiny wee DRK market that we have right now).

There is one thing that any market values over everything else when it comes to technology: reliability. It's like air safety. Something that's never spoken about by airlines but that underpins the value of everything they do.

If a cryptocurrency project is taking on a challenge as difficult as total anonymity (in addition to the 'double spend' problem which has only just been solved after decades of research) it would do well to concentrate on nothing else.

A product that does very little but very well is a dead cert for adoption. People don't care about bells and whistle's, they care about doing the big things right, and right every time. Mundane repetitiveness sells which is why I made my post yesterday about Darkcoin starting to leave the competition behind.

InstantX would be nice but we must not be distracted. Cryptocurrency is a monetary base - not a payments system. Anonymity and speed of confirmation are way different objectives and one should not be compromised for the sake of another.

The reason that I am not bothered about InstantX and that I think Darkcoin should not be wasting its time on it is that point of sale systems (POS) will never be be doing direct transactions with the blockchain. That will be taken care of by payment processors. The blockchain is a clearing system that is at least 1 tier away from point of sale. It doesn't matter if blockchain confirmation time gets down to 5 seconds, it still will never be able to compete with a buffered point of sale system that can instantly reverse the packet of cornflakes that the cashier accidently rung through from the person behind you in the queue.

For that reason, for me, Bitcoin's blockchain clearing time of 30 minutes to 1 hour is going to be much more attractive to the retail industry that a confirmation time of 20 seconds. 30 minutes at least sounds like it has reliability behind it whereas 20 seconds will sound flaky as f*ck.

Banks have a clearing time of 1-2 days so there isn't exactly a lot of urgency.

Stick with the anonymity priority for this coin because that's what it does well and a reduced blockchain confirmation time will only make it look like a toy.

Tok, you're one of my favourite posters on this forum (you can hear a 'but' coming can't you! No, there's no 'but', just appreciation).

You bring a wealth of understanding and knowledge to us all.

I completely understand what you're saying about POS. One of the challenges in a community like this is that everyone sees enormous potential for the technology and with great fervour and excitement, they start imagining the impact it will have and how things will be revolutionised in the same way the Internet has revolutionised almost every aspect of business, media and communications. And much of this imagining is in realms and arenas that most of us have little experience with; POS, being most likely an example of that (perhaps bigrcanada and his wine bar excluded; but to really understand retailers' requirements for POS you have to have implemented such systems in large national retail chains where all the back-end processes have to be seamlessly integrated).

Having worked in corporate and government large scale IT for a long time, I can so easily concur that retailers will have about as much interest in deploying a POS system that's linked directly to a block chain for a crypto currency such as DRK as they have in accepting gold at the checkout. They're just not interested in being involved in all the mechanics of the transactions down at a technical protocol level. That's why payment processors exist; to facilitate all the techo knowledge, security, integration, back-end accounting, consumer legal protection/adherence to laws, support, loyalty systems interfacing and most of all performance SLAs. Everyone talking about 20 second confirmations and the checkout operator being able to void the cornflakes packet purchase and re-charge it to the next customer in line, etc, is just silliness. There's no way, crypto (as it currently stands or even as it may be 10 years from now) is going to be acceptable directly connected to POS terminals. There HAS TO be a layer in between the base monetary system (as you've described it Tok) and the retailer. Performance at a checkout is everything for large scale mainstream retailers. Even if DRK with the masternode network got down to 10 second confirm times, that's still too long at a Walmart checkout by comparison to the Visa/Mastercard networks which have SLAs guaranteeing sub 5 second times. An open source network like that which DRK is built on won't be competitive with the likes of these payment processors, for the moment.

And "for the moment" is a key point. Unlike you, I wouldn't say "(POS) will never be be doing direct transactions with the blockchain" because people have made these sorts of statements before only to then be proved completely wrong some time down the track. Things could develop dramatically over time and block chain technology could become THE network technology that everything works on. The mere fact IBM has invested so much into their IoT ("Internet of things") block chain architecture is indicative of how ubiquitous this stuff is likely to become. But your points about clarifying that DRK is a base monetary system, not a POS tool is a very important differentiation that I think many of us are not clear on. There will be many online businesses that will transact directly with the block chain, but they'll be specialist niche affairs (like DirectBet). Mainstream business is not likely to use DRK for a start because of it's association with illegality (and that would segway into the name issue....but I'm not going there in this posting), but they will use it if a payment processor picks it up and builds products/services around it (that's why that Coinbase $75mil of capital raising story is of such importance; this is where mainstream will meet crypto).

As for InstantX I'm of the opinion that this can only be good for DRK. It will give us an incredible edge and open up much instant trade that will arise where it's currently tethered by BTC's long confirmation times. The key to success will be whether the technology can be robust enough to with stand network forks (like we've just had) and not result in a big mess. It will take years before DRK has a reputation of certainty and reputability, and even then, it will still be payment processors that use it and provide the front end initially.

Keeping posting Tok. I and many others really appreciate your input.

[TanteStefana2]

Things would speed up if Andreas A. ran for the greek presidency. He's quite eligible I believe  

If I could, I'd vote for him!  But I actually like him to much to wish that on him, LOL.

Maybe congress though.  He's now an American citizen I believe, so he could become a senator or congressman???  I can see that in his future   He's amazingly articulate and thoughtful. 

[TanteStefana2]

Exactly, although Germany preaches, the PIGS have kept the euro artificially low, without them it will become like the Swiss franc and make German exports very difficult, although it is perverse, Germany does benefit from having countries like Greece in the Europe and should really do more to assist them as for them to be as productive as Germany is to all intents and purposes impossible, and that is the problem...

Greece is going commie, if they thought they knew austerity before, they haven't a clue as to what they're in for.  Unless you're part of the corrupt government-leeching off the people, you'll be living below poverty with no hope to find success.  Good luck with that.  Even the government can't leech forever.  But I have no high horse, we're going down the same road in the USA.

[GhostPlayer]

Exactly, although Germany preaches, the PIGS have kept the euro artificially low, without them it will become like the Swiss franc and make German exports very difficult, although it is perverse, Germany does benefit from having countries like Greece in the Europe and should really do more to assist them as for them to be as productive as Germany is to all intents and purposes impossible, and that is the problem...

Greece is going commie, if they thought they knew austerity before, they haven't a clue as to what they're in for.  Unless you're part of the corrupt government-leeching off the people, you'll be living below poverty with no hope to find success.  Good luck with that.  Even the government can't leech forever.  But I have no high horse, we're going down the same road in the USA.

For reference, Syriza is not communist. It's a pure radical left coalition comprised of about a dozen groups, including democratic socialists.
No one has a clue how on earth this os going to play out.

[tombtc]

Friendly Sunday Epileptic Disco Reminder  

Update to v.011.0.13 ASAP please...

- This includes the full fix to the segfault issue from Bitcoin.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/0-11-0-darkcoin-core-release.3601

 No complaints so far, pretty soon enforcement hammer shall strike, and off to InstantX !


 

[eahmadov]

Tomorrow's Guardian newspaper headline will look like this:



https://twitter.com/guardian/status/559474640855506944/photo/1

[TanteStefana2]

Exactly, although Germany preaches, the PIGS have kept the euro artificially low, without them it will become like the Swiss franc and make German exports very difficult, although it is perverse, Germany does benefit from having countries like Greece in the Europe and should really do more to assist them as for them to be as productive as Germany is to all intents and purposes impossible, and that is the problem...

Greece is going commie, if they thought they knew austerity before, they haven't a clue as to what they're in for.  Unless you're part of the corrupt government-leeching off the people, you'll be living below poverty with no hope to find success.  Good luck with that.  Even the government can't leech forever.  But I have no high horse, we're going down the same road in the USA.

For reference, Syriza is not communist. It's a pure radical left coalition comprised of about a dozen groups, including democratic socialists.
No one has a clue how on earth this os going to play out.

I really wish the best for Greece, but in the end, the policies will be the same, and I don't see anything good coming from it.  But I'm a lifelong capitalist (now called anarchist???)  Let the people work, innovate, do things, and don't hinder them.  But the far left is always for more government which means more regulations, which means people can't work and innovate, IMO.  Don't get me wrong, I don't like the far left nor the far right.  Both of them want to rule everyone's life and think they know better.  And I'm not against social safety nets either.  I just think there is a balance, and financially - not socially, I'm probably on the right side of the spectrum

[qwizzie]

http://explorer.darkcoin.io/chain/Darkcoin stuck at block 209240 ?

[oblox]

http://explorer.darkcoin.io/chain/Darkcoin stuck at block 209240 ?

Doesn't look like it.