[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[GStealthCoin]

I would like to improve my understanding of the pros and cons of various anon technologies.

If I set up an online business that I want to be private, using Darksend it will still be obvious that I am suddenly receiving lots of coins, right?

G.

Are you foolish enough to reuse the same address?

So the answer is I would require multiple addresses?

G.

[Minotaur26]

Could stealth addresses reinforce Darksend+ against sybil attacks? - It doesn't help: http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/2lnauo/can_we_get_stealth_addresses_implemented_in_drk/clyea3j

Stealth addresses don't offer anonymity, they just protect the receivers address. Darksend protects the senders identity. Stealth addresses are really just useful when you're posting an address for donations, or something similar and you don't want the whole world to know how much money you got and where it went to. Alternatively, you can accomplish the same thing by just using unique receiving addresses for each transaction. I'm not at all opposed to implementing it though, it's just not as useful as people make it out to be.

[GhostPlayer]

hey c'mon, legit question there. He runs a business, not software

And I gave a legit answer. Bitcoin started on the basis that people were never suppose to be reusing the same address over and over again per tx.

 yeah, I get you. But BTC is tough enough to grasp to someone setting up merchant processing, let alone DS.

Speaking of which, DRK needs non-DIY, GUI friendly, HD wallets!  

[Minotaur26]

I would like to improve my understanding of the pros and cons of various anon technologies.

If I set up an online business that I want to be private, using Darksend it will still be obvious that I am suddenly receiving lots of coins, right?

G.

Are you foolish enough to reuse the same address?

So the answer is I would require multiple addresses?

G.

We are not interested in discussing stealth addresses, it is mildly interesting in some specific use cases, not a priority.  If you feel that is where the value of your coin lies you are probably uninformed.  You can see eduffield comments here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/2lnauo/can_we_get_stealth_addresses_implemented_in_drk/clyea3j

We might consider it in the future but please dont spam our thread.

[oblox]

hey c'mon, legit question there. He runs a business, not software

And I gave a legit answer. Bitcoin started on the basis that people were never suppose to be reusing the same address over and over again per tx.

 yeah, I get you. But BTC is tough enough to grasp to someone setting up merchant processing, let alone DS.

Speaking of which, DRK needs non-DIY, GUI friendly, HD wallets! 

If you can't see blatant stiring of the pot, I don't know what else to tell you. If a person really needs to conceal that sort of activity, then they will make the effort to make sure each tx goes to a new address. Period. End of story.

[toknormal]

hey c'mon, legit question there. He runs a business, not software

+1

The answer is that if you run a business and advertise a particular address for receiving money, then clearly that address is not anonymous (because you advertised it).

So, the convention for serious retailers like Dish and Overstock who use payment processors is to supply a unique address to each new sale.

Presumably the receipts can then be anonymised by the Darkcoin network and consolidated at holding addresses, so there's no way of your customers (or more importantly, your commercial competitors) following the trail from a payment address to your main "deposit accounts".

Conversely, it goes without saying that with bitcoin, that is altogether completely possible. (In fact it might be an instructive exercise for someone to make a purchase from one of the big retailers who accept bitcoin and attempt to discover their main holding addresses. Some of them do hold bitcoin).

P.S. XPY dumping continuing. It's now becoming established in the 3rd decimal place.

[GStealthCoin]

hey c'mon, legit question there. He runs a business, not software

+1

The answer is that if you run a business and advertise a particular address for receiving money, then clearly that address is not anonymous (because you advertised it).

So, the convention for serious retailers like Dish and Overstock who use payment processors is to supply a unique address to each new sale.

Presumably the receipts can then be anonymised by the Darkcoin network and consolidated at holding addresses, so there's no way of your customers (or more importantly, your commercial competitors) following the trail from a payment address to your main "deposit accounts".

Conversely, it goes without saying that with bitcoin, that is altogether completely possible. (In fact it might be an instructive exercise for someone to make a purchase from one of the big retailers who accept bitcoin and attempt to discover their main holding addresses. Some of them do hold bitcoin).

P.S. XPY dumping continuing. It's now becoming established in the 3rd decimal place.

Really useful answer. Thanks.

FYI - I was not spamming. It is a genuine question. I never once mentioned Stealth Addresses. Stealth Addresses form only a small part of any anon solution.

Good luck.

[GhostPlayer]

If you can't see blatant stiring of the pot, I don't know what else to tell you. If a person really needs to conceal that sort of activity, then they will make the effort to make sure each tx goes to a new address. Period. End of story.

 What do you mean "stirring the pot"...? Coming onto a public forum and making a noob question? I didn't see any provocation there. Maybe I'm missing something.

[oblox]

If you can't see blatant stiring of the pot, I don't know what else to tell you. If a person really needs to conceal that sort of activity, then they will make the effort to make sure each tx goes to a new address. Period. End of story.

 What do you mean "stirring the pot"...? by coming onto a public forum and making a noob question? I don't see any provocation there. Maybe I'm missing something.

Look at his username and post history. It's no surprise he has vested interest in a "competing" coin. It's about trying to find flaws to discredit Darksend, nothing more. The answer I gave is the most fitting and wasn't provoking either--if you need that level of privacy, you'd make the effort to have received funds from each tx to newly generated addresses before darksending and sending to your final address.

[GhostPlayer]

Look at his username and post history. It's no surprise he has vested interest in a "competing" coin. It's about trying to find flaws to discredit Darksend, nothing more. The answer I gave is the most fitting and wasn't provoking either--if you need that level of privacy, you'd make the effort to have received funds from each tx to newly generated addresses before darksending and sending to your final address.

 Oh, ok... though I still dont see any discredit to DS at all... But I will add, I'm backing you on this, as I'm not so informed it seems.
Plus, if you need that level of privacy, you wouldn't come to a forum thread to find these sort of answers. Kinda fishy really.

[GStealthCoin]

If a person really needs to conceal that sort of activity, then they will make the effort to make sure each tx goes to a new address. Period. End of story.

No stirring intended.

As for a person who needs to conceal that type of activity, I would argue that for commercial reasons this applies to most merchants (i.e. where a lot of transaction volume will come from in future years).

Anyway it was genuine. I hold some DRK. I will leave now to prevent anyone else accuses me of having false intentions.

G.

[toknormal]

Look at his username and post history. It's no surprise he has vested interest in a "competing" coin. It's about trying to find flaws to discredit Darksend, nothing more. The answer I gave is the most fitting and wasn't provoking either--if you need that level of privacy, you'd make the effort to have received funds from each tx to newly generated addresses before darksending and sending to your final address.

Everything has pros and cons.

Ideally you do NOT want the transaction from the customer to the retailer to be anonymous.

From a business point of view, that should be transparent because the block explorer can then serve as an arbitrator of any dispute over remittance of payment. Nor is there any need for it to be anonymous because only the customer and the retailer know the remittence address anyway.

It's what the retailer does with the funds after that that needs to be (and is) anonymous.

It's just like a banking system - if I make a purchase from amazon, I can see the transaction in my bank statement and so can they see it in their statement. But what I can't see is all the other transactions in their account or follow it when they move it.

So Darkcoin has the architecture right for optimally supporting commercial privacy IMO.

[toknormal]

A tale of 2 markets...

[oblox]

Look at his username and post history. It's no surprise he has vested interest in a "competing" coin. It's about trying to find flaws to discredit Darksend, nothing more. The answer I gave is the most fitting and wasn't provoking either--if you need that level of privacy, you'd make the effort to have received funds from each tx to newly generated addresses before darksending and sending to your final address.

Everything has pros and cons.

Ideally you do NOT want the transaction from the customer to the retailer to be anonymous.

From a business point of view, that should be transparent because the block explorer can then serve as an arbitrator of any dispute over remittance of payment. Nor is there any need for it to be anonymous because only the customer and the retailer know the remittence address anyway.

It's what the retailer does with the funds after that that needs to be (and is) anonymous.

It's just like a banking system - if I make a purchase from amazon, I can see the transaction in my bank statement and so can they see it in their statement. But what I can't see is all the other transactions in their account or follow it when they move it.

So Darkcoin has the architecture right for optimally supporting commercial privacy IMO.

...unless of course the business is illegal.

[oblox]

If a person really needs to conceal that sort of activity, then they will make the effort to make sure each tx goes to a new address. Period. End of story.

No stirring intended.

As for a person who needs to conceal that type of activity, I would argue that for commercial reasons this applies to most merchants (i.e. where a lot of transaction volume will come from in future years).

Anyway it was genuine. I hold some DRK. I will leave now to prevent anyone else accuses me of having false intentions.

G.

From a commercial, legal standpoint, it's fine having all the coins end up in the same initial address as proof of payment. There is nothing illegal about that. DS protects the senders identity. The real question is why you have to conceal receiving funds if you are operating a legal business. If it's a means of protecting different clients, DS already serves that purpose.

[splawik21]

OMG! start-many just kicking  
perfect if you have more than 1 MN

[Walter_S]

Anyone gotten money out of Mintpal? I have a friend who's DRK is stuck in there.

Managed to get my DRK out but I was really on the ball and probably one of the first to request their money... What were others experience?

For me, I had a lot on mintpal, around 70+ coins if I remember correctly.  I was on edge since everyone was kind of talking about mintpal being quirky, and that being a bad sign.  When it went down, I was really worried but the second it went back online, I withdrew and got my coins.  I feel very lucky that I did.

It's really sad what happened there, especially to the people who's baby mintpal was.  They let a con man in the door and lost it all.  You can see why so many laws were created to protect the stock market and banking industries.  Unfortunately, none of them really work and the whole infrastructure attracts the same kind of con men only they just make the rules now and play the game longer without being caught.

I agree, I remember not sleeping very well at all whilst waiting for my request to be processed. I think I had around 1300DRK there at the time, not a huge amount if you're a whale but to me it's a lot! Was very worried as I know how flaky exchanges are and I never normally have such a large amount stored on them, it was only because I'd just purchased them before the site went down Sods law! The relief I felt when I saw them appear back in my local wallet after a few days was palpable... Really thought they'd gone at that point... Sadly, it seems like many others weren't so lucky  

[toknormal]

OMG! start-many just kicking  
perfect if you have more than 1 MN

Didn't Tante say that you don't need to start the local wallet for upgrading from 11.9 to 11.10 ?

(I assumed she meant you don't need to call "start masternode" form the local wallet after restarting darkcoind masternode daemon).

[GhostPlayer]

A tale of 2 markets...

Goddamit   .. Damn FIAT and SEPA transfers.... I always miss the train!   not that its a huge takeoff, but at this rate I wont get my next node...

[toknormal]

Goddamit   .. Damn FIAT and SEPA transfers.... I always miss the train!   not that its a huge takeoff, but at this rate I wont get my next node...

Don't you have any crypto reserves like bitcoin that you can use while you're waiting on your fiat ?

Bitcoin's fairly stable at the moment.