DefaultTrust changes

[Thule]

Is that factual? Please do show me if so.]

It is example on his sig

[1713949738]

1713949738

[1713949738]

1713949738

[1713949738]

1713949738

[1713949738]

1713949738

[1713949738]

1713949738

[cryptohunter]

Come on snake. I have notice you are supporting a proven liar and proven trust abuser on DT. I don't think we can rely on anything you say to be for the good of the board from now on. I certainly would not trust you now stfu.

want proof- just ask. Perhaps I will review my opinion of you when you stop supporting proven liars and proven trust abusers.

You are looking more like a sig spamming shit poster daily. Remove that sig and stop financially motivated shit posting net negative dirt 24/7

Facts based post - either make a facts based rebuttal of just hide away like the rest of the scum bags on here.

For such an outspoken advocate of free speech here at the forum you sure do like to tell people to go away and stop posting. Double standards are great when they fit your agenda, right?

It is not double standard to tell proven liars and the supporters of proven liars that their posts can not be trusted.
Sorry you can not understand that.

The honest, trustworthy and fair should post unfettered by these scum bags.

Post facts with their posts that support their dubious and untrustworthy opinions or stfu spamming their sigs for btc dust everywhere ... same to you sig spamming net negative idiot.

Is that factual? Please do show me if so.

I'd say if anything you are also a shitposting sig spammer, spreading your sig everywhere to try and get people to react to it. I guess not enough people are and that's why you get a bit sour but not to worry! You'll always be able to find like-minded people sooner or later. For better or worse remains to be seen.

Yes it is fact... here is why

1. your post is net negative - because my post is a truthful account of what is happening. Someone supporting a proven liar is untrustworthy and their posts must be viewed with extreme caution ..    you trying to cloud this issue is net negative and damaging to finding the truth. People proven untrustworthy need to substantiate all claims with evidence as should everyone actually. However telling them they are untrustworthy because they commit untrustworthy deeds is simply telling the truth.

2. your post earned you btc dust for being net negative simple as that.

You too are untrustworthy if you are supporting proven liars and trust abusers on to the trust system.

Remove you sig and stop being financially motivated shit poster... just be a shit poster.

[Hhampuz]

Woah woah woah calm your angry boner... Exactly which one of the many members you think are "proven liars" am I supporting? I'm not really supporting anybody. Ask them!

~image snip

Perhaps once or twice I commented that it was bizarre that you were flipping out in such a spectacular manner.

It does not really matter, if you do not agree with a select few here it means that you are against them and bunched together with "criminal organizations", "proven liars" and you plan to overthrow the forum with only one goal in mind - total and complete control of anything and everything.

That's why it is so interesting thought that these users who speak this way seem to lack understanding of their own actions while pointing at everyone else in the room with an urge and a need to tell them they are wrong while they themselves are right.

It's a losing battle no matter what you do, no matter how you try and tackle a discussion. There is no cure for narcissism.

Yes it is fact... here is why

1. your post is net negative - because my post is a truthful account of what is happening. Someone supporting a proven liar is untrustworthy and their posts must be viewed with extreme caution ..    you trying to cloud this issue is net negative and damaging to finding the truth. People proven untrustworthy need to substantiate all claims with evidence as should everyone actually. However telling them they are untrustworthy because they commit untrustworthy deeds is simply telling the truth.

2. your post earned you btc dust for being net negative simple as that.

You too are untrustworthy if you are supporting proven liars and trust abusers on to the trust system.

Remove you sig and stop being financially motivated shit poster... just be a shit poster.

I do not get paid based on the amount of posts I make. I can make 100 posts in a week or 1 post in a week and I'd still receive the exact same payment. Your "fact" is thereby not factual as you are clueless about how it truly works, you've not seen my contract and should not speak of things you know nothing of.

Imagine if you would put this amount of time and effort into actually trying to make the forum a better place. I am certain beyond unreasonable doubt that your trust would be restored and you'd probably earn loads of merits for doing so. But look at you now, you've chosen a path and you are so stubborn that you can't seem to deviate from it. It's a shame.

[cryptohunter]

In the case of members who actually do have a reputation, their only strategy is to attempt to diminish that with accusations and mobbing, because that is all they know how to do. They are used to being able to dismiss every complaint as a scammer or an alt, and in a constant mindset of either you do way I say or you are a scammer or supporting scams, not because I have proof, but because I said so. This is why we need a standard of evidence for rating.

Maybe you should try creating some more locked threads instead. Surely that will solve the problem!

 

Come on snake. I have notice you are supporting a proven liar and proven trust abuser on DT. I don't think we can rely on anything you say to be for the good of the board from now on. I certainly would not trust you now stfu.

want proof- just ask. Perhaps I will review my opinion of you when you stop supporting proven liars and proven trust abusers.

Woah woah woah calm your angry boner... Exactly which one of the many members you think are "proven liars" am I supporting? I'm not really supporting anybody. Ask them!



Perhaps once or twice I commented that it was bizarre that you were flipping out in such a spectacular manner.

Lauda is a proven liar and trust abuser
tman is a proven trust abuser

You are including them on DT. I also heard you are one to be excluding myself as untrustworthy. That again is completely laughable as I have never done anything but fight for the weakest and out and fight the largest of scams. I have no interest of being on DT i would not be part of this system of control however excluding me as untrustworthy makes you untrustworthy unless you can provide a good reason for this that can debate and present evidence for. That coupled with the fact you are supporting proven liars and trust abusers who sought to silence me from presenting FACTS about their past is disgraceful.

This tells me all that I need to know. I am not one to beat around the bush. Scumbags are scumbags, supporters of proven scumbags are scumbags too. Same for Moglie that proven liar who breaks his word and vanishes and hides. He has broken his word and ran off.

I am only interested in seeing DT full of people with zero dirty deeds, fairness and honesty.

If persons have been proven untrustworthy they themselves and their supporters must be black listed and made pariahs.

I present facts only anyone questioning my actions or posts or wants to see presentation of these facts needs but ask me to provide and I will.

[TMAN]

Imagine if you would put this amount of time and effort into actually trying to make the forum a better place. I am certain beyond unreasonable doubt that your trust would be restored and you'd probably earn loads of merits for doing so. But look at you now, you've chosen a path and you are so stubborn that you can't seem to deviate from it. It's a shame.

if I had merits left I would drop you 50 just for this post. Fighting against a brick wall is all the user is doing, all that energy and passion directed in a positive manner would probably make them a multimillionaire as well.

[cryptohunter]

Imagine if you would put this amount of time and effort into actually trying to make the forum a better place. I am certain beyond unreasonable doubt that your trust would be restored and you'd probably earn loads of merits for doing so. But look at you now, you've chosen a path and you are so stubborn that you can't seem to deviate from it. It's a shame.

if I had merits left I would drop you 50 just for this post. Fighting against a brick wall is all the user is doing, all that energy and passion directed in a positive manner would probably make them a multimillionaire as well.

Read - understand- accept-

I will not accept red trust on my account for simply presenting facts.  Below are facts these are not opinions.

LaudaM and myself had many fights before most of you ass kissers joined this board. He (lauda) lied over and over and tried to make people believe I was wrong back then.

Now what happened  .....I was proven correct and he was proven a liar.

Years later lauda and spoetnik come on to a thread and it seems they have switched accounts. Lauda is now presenting the same argument I had years before saying the project he had protected and pushed for years was a corrupt dirty shit coin and spoetnik had been bought off and was now saying it was a legit project where as before he was 100% sure  it was a scam.

So I said to lauda? wtf has your account been hacked or something --and he said to me. I was new back then and I was wrong.

What did I do??? Yes I did not even gloat. If you can find the post I think I just said to him.. well it is never too late to come to the light.

Years go past I leave him alone. Then lauda pops up on my threads telling me 2 x in 2 threads I am a liar??? I tell him produce the evidence or delete your false claim , he does not on any occasion produce the evidence but leaves his false accusation there.

The 3rd time he calls me a liar. I tell him if you call me a liar again with no evidence I will start encouraging people to review your post history where I can direct them to where you are a proven liar.

He red trusts me for telling the truth that he does not want known. Sorry but red trust is not to be used to silence people presenting facts about wrong doing.

Then later I start kicking off more because the rest of DT pussies and gimps seeing this will not force him to take that red off.  Still the post is fact based no lies from me perhaps some strong language at worst. However still the facts of the matter.

Tman then red trusts me for making that facts based post as he admits in black and white.

Owl catz the 3rd member of their team then red trusts that facts based post too.

I tell tman get that red trust off my account and his pals or i will continue to keep presenting the TRUTH about this entire matter and they will never rest. Yogg that colluding scumbag who you can see is linked to tman and owlcatz strongly on bpip org and DT inclusions/exclusions then pops up and says if you say you will tell the truth about people red trusting abusing you forever until they undo the trust abuse then  you need more red trust and gives me further red trust. So now he is proven untrustworthy and must be black listed.

NO WAY will I accept my red trust so it will continue forever. If I get banned for presenting facts where and when they are on topic and relevant regarding the TRUTH about the red trust abuse on my account I will insist my friends join and continue my fight.

Now to say any of this is incorrect or voice any opinion on it other than the factual account I have presented you need to bring facts. This is not just a place to say i think this or that without a firm case or some supporting strong fact based argument.

[TMAN]

I will not accept red trust on my account for simply presenting facts.  Below are facts these are not opinions.

The supposed facts aren't why you got a tag you silly fool - why do you keep saying it? i have said 20 times you are mental and that is why you are tagged by me - I do not trust you due to how you act here on the forum, the retarded posts like above - you just need to deal with it

[suchmoon]

What gives you or anyone else the right to attempt to harass or intimidate him into compliance with ratings you demand? None of this is any proof of wrong doing, just more simplistic guilt via association and guilt because he didn't immediately acquiesce to your demands for compliance. Like a cop arresting some one for resisting arrest screaming "STOP RESISTING" as you hit them and kneel on his neck as he tries to breathe handcuffed.

It is circular logic. Your authority is your mandate and your mandate is your authority. Do what I say or else.

Where did I harass or intimidate him into compliance? I have excluded Og months ago, long before all this drama. There is no "do what I say or else". He can do whatever he wants.

Sorry, but I am not here to go Sherlock Holmes on every one, most of us are here to built a trusted and productive community. Not by harassing them with power but letting them know how to adjust. You just always attempt to hamper once reputation in any way you can when a person tries to get in a positive discussions or in anti-DT mode.

You should see OGnasty and also TECSHARE are here from pretty much time doing good deals, but I am sorry to see them removed from DT. This is totally a wrong judgement if seen by a normal person ( a person not engaged in DT wars) people with high trade on the forum have a low feedback value than other recently upgraded members and also some type of "clique" I need to admit it.

You could just see the effect in meta and reputation board there are large number of users protesting, you should not say all of them are alts its a very childish reason for this large number of accounts!

You asked to substantiate what I was saying and I did. The whole Og thing happened over the course of years while he was feeling invincible in DT1. Now he's all nice and fluffy trying to get back. Feel free to include him if that suits you. Not everything that's going on here must be a "clique" or some other bullshit conspiracy.


@all - please stop feeding wild animals outside of designated areas lest we all end up knee-deep in their shit. Thank you.

[cryptohunter]

I will not accept red trust on my account for simply presenting facts.  Below are facts these are not opinions.

The supposed facts aren't why you got a tag you silly fool - why do you keep saying it? i have said 20 times you are mental and that is why you are tagged by me - I do not trust you due to how you act here on the forum, the retarded posts like above - you just need to deal with it

You can say that 2000000x but again I have it in black and white. Your posts are far far more crazy and include sexual deviance

You are just trying to say that my above post is crazy when in fact it is 100% facts based. That just makes you more crazy and unable to comment on such matters.

You can not red trust for fact based posts.

Can, have and will.

if you don't like it I suggest you petition all other DT-1 members to exclude me or if they feel that my tagging of you is not needed or accurate they will reach out to me like adults and have actual fluid conversations

so - Like it or fuck off back to your hole.


xxxx laters sexy pants

DO YOU NOT SEE THE ABOVE QUOTE FROM YOU ADMITTING IT??

The fact you are still denying it makes you a liar and a trust abuser.

Bring forth the crazy post and let me compare it here an now to the posts you make about kids being touched by uncles, anal experiences with veggies and fat repulsive female family members you describe in detail.

Let us examine the FACTS now in public.

Foxpoop here merit abusing the system over and over with no caution. Take those merits away from that scumbag. Look at him on bpip he just gives 100s and 100s to the same people. How can this fool be left in charge of giving out merits.

He is giving merit to net negative and incorrect posts whilst ignoring fact based truthful posts. He is therefore untrustworthy.

[nutildah]

Lauda is a proven liar and trust abuser
tman is a proven trust abuser

You are including them on DT. I also heard you are one to be excluding myself as untrustworthy. That again is completely laughable as I have never done anything but fight for the weakest and out and fight the largest of scams. I have no interest of being on DT i would not be part of this system of control however excluding me as untrustworthy makes you untrustworthy unless you can provide a good reason for this that can debate and present evidence for. That coupled with the fact you are supporting proven liars and trust abusers who sought to silence me from presenting FACTS about their past is disgraceful.

Without being aware of your previous ongoing drama with these two, I can tell you that I added Lauda and TMAN because I think the good they contribute to the forum far outweighs the bad, and I distrusted you because you're a bit mentally unstable. Upon closer inspection you've never red trusted anybody so I admit the move has no bearing on anything. Neither does it have any bearing on you -- its not the same thing as actually leaving a trust rating.

You should get back to "fighting for the weakest" if that's truly your thing. All this drama is making me sleepy.

[cryptohunter]

Lauda is a proven liar and trust abuser
tman is a proven trust abuser

You are including them on DT. I also heard you are one to be excluding myself as untrustworthy. That again is completely laughable as I have never done anything but fight for the weakest and out and fight the largest of scams. I have no interest of being on DT i would not be part of this system of control however excluding me as untrustworthy makes you untrustworthy unless you can provide a good reason for this that can debate and present evidence for. That coupled with the fact you are supporting proven liars and trust abusers who sought to silence me from presenting FACTS about their past is disgraceful.

Without being aware of your previous ongoing drama with these two, I can tell you that I added Lauda and TMAN because I think the good they contribute to the forum far outweighs the bad, and I distrusted you because you're a bit mentally unstable. Upon closer inspection you've never red trusted anybody so I admit the move has no bearing on anything. Neither does it have any bearing on you -- its not the same thing as actually leaving a trust rating.

You should get back to "fighting for the weakest" if that's truly your thing. All this drama is making me sleepy.

LOL okay snake but now you have the evidence and proof that they are liars and trust abusers .... but still you keep them there.

DRAMA?? - facts regarding wrong doing and trust abuse??  another snake like untrustworthy ploy to group in facts and evidence of wrong doing with drama and trolling.

It does not work like the good outweighs the bad. This is regarding trust. Trust you do understand what trust means right? How can you trust and proven liar??

Prove that I am mentally unstable. Direct me now to the post that demonstrates your spurious snake like claim.

Take that sig off you spamming dirt bag. Net negative untruthful posts earning money here should stop.

[TMAN]

DO YOU NOT SEE THE ABOVE QUOTE FROM YOU ADMITTING IT??

read the whole thread where I previously mentioned you are mental - this whole post above proves it, notice that only red tagged members are siding with you? but no - the crazies are right and the 20K other active members on this forum are all wrong!

[Timelord2067]

DO YOU NOT SEE THE ABOVE QUOTE FROM YOU ADMITTING IT??

read the whole thread where I previously mentioned you are mental - this whole post above proves it, notice that only red tagged members are siding with you? but no - the crazies are right and the 20K other active members on this forum are all wrong!

@theymos, time to lock this thread.

[nutildah]

DRAMA?? - facts regarding wrong doing and trust abuse??  another snake like untrustworthy ploy to group in facts and evidence of wrong doing with drama and trolling.

Yes and its getting boring TBH. I'm regretting sticking my head into it.

It does not work like the good outweighs the bad.

That's exactly how it works. Nobody's perfect. Not even you.

Prove that I am mentally unstable. Direct me now to the post that demonstrates your spurious snake like claim.

Every day you come to this forum and unleash huge walls of hate text about the same, tired problem(s), over and over. People have already pointed it out far more than I currently have the strength to.

Take that sig off you spamming dirt bag. Net negative untruthful posts earning money here should stop.

Says the guy with over 13,000 posts... OK guy, we get it, people who wear sigs are spammers and people like you aren't. I never even got paid for a sig campaign before late last year and I've been here almost as long as you. I'm bowing out of this "debate" and will let you have the last word.

[TMAN]

DO YOU NOT SEE THE ABOVE QUOTE FROM YOU ADMITTING IT??

read the whole thread where I previously mentioned you are mental - this whole post above proves it, notice that only red tagged members are siding with you? but no - the crazies are right and the 20K other active members on this forum are all wrong!

@theymos, time to lock this thread.

sorry man - taking him off ignore in rep makes me end up replying here.. back on ignore

[cryptohunter]

DRAMA?? - facts regarding wrong doing and trust abuse??  another snake like untrustworthy ploy to group in facts and evidence of wrong doing with drama and trolling.

Yes and its getting boring TBH. I'm regretting sticking my head into it.

It does not work like the good outweighs the bad.

That's exactly how it works. Nobody's perfect. Not even you.

Prove that I am mentally unstable. Direct me now to the post that demonstrates your spurious snake like claim.

Every day you come to this forum and unleash huge walls of hate text about the same, tired problem(s), over and over. People have already pointed it out far more than I currently have the strength to.

Take that sig off you spamming dirt bag. Net negative untruthful posts earning money here should stop.

Says the guy with over 13,000 posts... OK guy, we get it, people who wear sigs are spammers and people like you aren't. I never even got paid for a sig campaign before late last year and I've been here almost as long as you. I'm bowing out of this "debate" and will let you have the last word.

So to recap

Facts about wrong doing are getting boring - sorry about that.... let's brush them under the carpet and carry on like there are not proven liars and trust abusers here.

You will continue to support proven liars and trust abusers.  Okay that's fine. I will make sure to note down you are willingly supporting liars and trust abusers.

Hate for wrongdoing and untrustworthy deeds is madness ?? okay snake yeah how mad of me to hate proven wrongdoing and untrustworthy deeds. Sorry that is called doing the right thing.

A legend should not need payment for posting. Post for free like a real enthusiast.

[TECSHARE]

Now now boys. Theymos has made the changes to the DT system to allow us to mould it. Can we try to do this, instead of turning it mouldy before it gets the chance to start sprouting.

You don't get it Jet. The trust system was built on a foundation of mould.

Imagine if you would put this amount of time and effort into actually trying to make the forum a better place. I am certain beyond unreasonable doubt that your trust would be restored and you'd probably earn loads of merits for doing so. But look at you now, you've chosen a path and you are so stubborn that you can't seem to deviate from it. It's a shame.

Imagine if you will some one mass tagging people all day long obsessive compulsively with little to no research put into each rating. Lots of people complain, but you are so focused on how much "good" you do, you deem it inconsequential to listen to any complaints and instead opt to mock and further harass the people making a complaint regardless of how politely they go about it. Because this entertains you, you force them to grovel before you for with arbitrary acts the whole time knowing they will never be free of you because might makes right, and they have none. [ops face when]

What gives you or anyone else the right to attempt to harass or intimidate him into compliance with ratings you demand? None of this is any proof of wrong doing, just more simplistic guilt via association and guilt because he didn't immediately acquiesce to your demands for compliance. Like a cop arresting some one for resisting arrest screaming "STOP RESISTING" as you hit them and kneel on his neck as he tries to breathe handcuffed.

It is circular logic. Your authority is your mandate and your mandate is your authority. Do what I say or else.

Where did I harass or intimidate him into compliance? I have excluded Og months ago, long before all this drama. There is no "do what I say or else". He can do whatever he wants.

Sorry, but I am not here to go Sherlock Holmes on every one, most of us are here to built a trusted and productive community. Not by harassing them with power but letting them know how to adjust. You just always attempt to hamper once reputation in any way you can when a person tries to get in a positive discussions or in anti-DT mode.

You should see OGnasty and also TECSHARE are here from pretty much time doing good deals, but I am sorry to see them removed from DT. This is totally a wrong judgement if seen by a normal person ( a person not engaged in DT wars) people with high trade on the forum have a low feedback value than other recently upgraded members and also some type of "clique" I need to admit it.

You could just see the effect in meta and reputation board there are large number of users protesting, you should not say all of them are alts its a very childish reason for this large number of accounts!

You asked to substantiate what I was saying and I did. The whole Og thing happened over the course of years while he was feeling invincible in DT1. Now he's all nice and fluffy trying to get back. Feel free to include him if that suits you. Not everything that's going on here must be a "clique" or some other bullshit conspiracy.


@all - please stop feeding wild animals outside of designated areas lest we all end up knee-deep in their shit. Thank you.

You are doing it right now by pretending these posts are proof of anything. I looked them all over carefully and I see proof of nothing except a pattern of behavior of a coordinated group of individuals with power in the trust system (including you) attempting to force compliance with their demands via means of manufacturing the appearance of wrong doing systematically over an over again as punishment for refusing to comply.

I have seen it with my own eyes before, you aren't fooling me with this horse shit. There is no proof, but you know if you say it enough times stupid lazy ass kissers will buy the lies. One less voice of dissent with a reputation to be heard in the way. Dismiss the rest as scammers. Rinse and repeat.

[Hhampuz]

Imagine if you would put this amount of time and effort into actually trying to make the forum a better place. I am certain beyond unreasonable doubt that your trust would be restored and you'd probably earn loads of merits for doing so. But look at you now, you've chosen a path and you are so stubborn that you can't seem to deviate from it. It's a shame.

Imagine if you will some one mass tagging people all day long obsessive compulsively with little to no research put into each rating. Lots of people complain, but you are so focused on how much "good" you do, you deem it inconsequential to listen to any complaints and instead opt to mock and further harass the people making a complaint regardless of how politely they go about it. Because this entertains you, you force them to grovel before you for with arbitrary acts the whole time knowing they will never be free of you because might makes right, and they have none. [ops face when]

~snip img

Is that supposed to be me? If that's the case feel free to take a look at my trust ratings and tell me where I've been mass tagging people. If it's not about me then I've no idea why you'd quote me and talk about this. I'm not your counselor.

EDIT; I did "mass" tag about ~20 accounts at one point when there were bot accounts trying to abuse a Survey I held here giving out $3 for completing it. But that's about it.

[TECSHARE]

Imagine if you would put this amount of time and effort into actually trying to make the forum a better place. I am certain beyond unreasonable doubt that your trust would be restored and you'd probably earn loads of merits for doing so. But look at you now, you've chosen a path and you are so stubborn that you can't seem to deviate from it. It's a shame.

Imagine if you will some one mass tagging people all day long obsessive compulsively with little to no research put into each rating. Lots of people complain, but you are so focused on how much "good" you do, you deem it inconsequential to listen to any complaints and instead opt to mock and further harass the people making a complaint regardless of how politely they go about it. Because this entertains you, you force them to grovel before you for with arbitrary acts the whole time knowing they will never be free of you because might makes right, and they have none. [ops face when]

~snip img

Is that supposed to be me? If that's the case feel free to take a look at my trust ratings and tell me where I've been mass tagging people. If it's not about me then I've no idea why you'd quote me and talk about this. I'm not your counselor.

Because as a knee jerk cheerleader for these people, I see you as no different. Is that not how you scambusters do it? Guilt via association? The point remains regardless of the fact it applies more closely to people you support, such as by making this post to begin with.

[Hhampuz]

Imagine if you would put this amount of time and effort into actually trying to make the forum a better place. I am certain beyond unreasonable doubt that your trust would be restored and you'd probably earn loads of merits for doing so. But look at you now, you've chosen a path and you are so stubborn that you can't seem to deviate from it. It's a shame.

Imagine if you will some one mass tagging people all day long obsessive compulsively with little to no research put into each rating. Lots of people complain, but you are so focused on how much "good" you do, you deem it inconsequential to listen to any complaints and instead opt to mock and further harass the people making a complaint regardless of how politely they go about it. Because this entertains you, you force them to grovel before you for with arbitrary acts the whole time knowing they will never be free of you because might makes right, and they have none. [ops face when]

~snip img

Is that supposed to be me? If that's the case feel free to take a look at my trust ratings and tell me where I've been mass tagging people. If it's not about me then I've no idea why you'd quote me and talk about this. I'm not your counselor.

Because as a knee jerk cheerleader for these people, I see you as no different. Is that not how you scambusters do it? Guilt via association? The point remains regardless of the fact it applies more closely to people you support, such as by making this post to begin with.

Are you going to attack me now? While you are playing the victim each time someone disagrees with you and say that people can't argue without personally attacking you? Interesting.

I'm not nor have I ever painted out myself to be a "scambuster". Please do point me to any post where I've done so though.

Who do I support, which then makes me just as bad as them?

EDIT; Could you please show me where I'm a "knee jerk cheerleader" for the people you are referring to?