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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 26175 times)
Foxpup
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February 05, 2019, 07:46:47 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #1121

If the "gaming" takes the form of strategically sending a lot of merit, creating sockuppets, and stuff like that, then no. That sort of gaming might get me to blacklist people, in fact. But if it looks more like politics, then that's OK, and that's what H8bussesNbicycles's thread looks like to me.
I respectfully disagree. While I figured their scheme would never work and that you would blacklist the lot of them if it did, I really don't see it being attempted for any reason other than to scam people, or to help other scammers, hence my feedback. This is way more than just politics, even if they try to make it appear that that's all it is. I stand by my feedback, and invite anyone who disagrees with it to exclude me from their trust lists. It's all right; I've never given negative trust simply for disagreeing with me, and I'm not about to start now.

Will pretend to do unverifiable things (while actually eating an enchilada-style burrito) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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February 05, 2019, 07:48:15 PM
 #1122

You want me to show you where current DT members got their merit from ?
Edit: Am I included in you "current DT"?
No.

I'm taking this opportunity to promote my Trust list viewer, which is received well by the community, but I think most users don't know it exists. And it was quite some work to create, so use it Smiley

bill gator
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February 05, 2019, 07:48:48 PM
 #1123

I find it extraordinarily strange that members like minerjones and philipma1957 have found themselves no longer part of DT1. That doesn't seem appropriate and I hope it changes soon.

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February 05, 2019, 07:51:35 PM
 #1124

You want me to show you where current DT members got their merit from ?
Edit: Am I included in you "current DT"?
No.

This wasn't the meaning of my question. But I guess you know that?

I wanted to know if I am part of his DT merit investigation 😂

Not if I am part of his own not DT trust list Wink

However your viewer is bonkus Smiley thanks again for the tools you are offering to the community


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LoyceV
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February 05, 2019, 07:53:52 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), bones261 (1)
 #1125

I find it extraordinarily strange that members like minerjones and philipma1957 have found themselves no longer part of DT1. That doesn't seem appropriate and I hope it changes soon.
It's really up to them:
- Your trust list must include at least 10 users, not including ~distrust entries.
More than enough users included them, but they didn't include enough users by themselves:
Quote
Trust list for: philipma1957 (492 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (BPIP)
Back to index (created 2019-02-03 Sun 00.08h)

philipma1957 Trusts:
-ck (154 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
buysolar (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
TookDk (15 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
HagssFIN (271 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
generalt (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
kilo17 (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
loshia1974 (29 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Quote
Trust list for: minerjones (497 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (BPIP)
Back to index (created 2019-02-03 Sun 00.08h)

minerjones Trusts:
-

bill gator
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February 05, 2019, 07:56:22 PM
 #1126

In order to be on DT1, you need to have at least 10 people on your trust list. It appears that philipma1957 only has seven as of the 3rd. I'm not certain about minerjones.

I'm aware of what is causing them to no longer be part of DT1, but I am thinking about the strict requirements for users that are pretty unanimously agreed upon as solid additions to it. I can't think of a better alternative that would be fair, but it just seems out of place to me personally that these two were removed. It's possible that a user be a good addition to DT1 and not have a proper custom trust list, right?

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February 05, 2019, 07:56:30 PM
 #1127

You want me to show you where current DT members got their merit from ?

Maybe you should start reading how they defended their merit from BS posts.

Actually I would be curious if you have some good read for me  Grin

Edit: Am I included in you "current DT"?

No you left a false feedback.Claiming that i have a personal vendetta against all DT members is a simple lie.I have issues with some DT members thats correct but that has nothing to do will all DT members in general.
I'm also coworked with some DT members in the past and never had a problem with them.Its just the small group who basicly turned an ant into an elephant because of their abuse,arrogance and ignorance which i'm trying to change.
However when i see double standards being holden up by DT members i got an issue with that.
As you know german have a very high level of "Gerechtigkeitssinn" and don't tolerate these kind of abuse.

Quote
I wanted to know if I am part of his DT merit investigation

No you arent.I have not the time to check everyone.Community would see it if you would abuse it sooner or later.

Like i posted above you have a wrong understanding that i have a personal vendetta against DT in general.Thats wrong what the small group implemented into your brain by writing this nonsense endless times into my threads.Its just about them and their abuse.Not about DT in general.

 

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February 05, 2019, 07:57:36 PM
 #1128

In particular, in my view:
 <snip>
Just wanted to thank you for giving some guidance as far as feedback-giving goes.  What I get from your input is that trust feedback really should be about trust, but we've all got different standards on that.  TECSHARE wants trust to be solely about documented trades and such, whereas I tend to not trust account sellers/buyers.  The message I'm taking from this is that you don't approve of leaving negs for differences of opinion or politics, but I'm wondering whether you specifically disapprove of account dealers being tagged--not necessarily your opinion on the matter, but whether you'd consider that an inappropriate use of the trust system.

It's not a moderator issue since there's no rule for it, and it harms the forum overall so I'd argue that DT ought to be able to tag them.

If I were to give my best answer (this might not align with what theymos thinks), you should ask yourself the question : Does this person's action mean I EVERYONE shouldn't trust him with money?

For the dude advocating users to remove Lauda from the truat list, it technically says nothing about his trustworthiness as a trade party. His hate for Lauda  (not just his, it seems like a whole gang of people want to exclude her from DT..) is a very subjective opinion, and more of a "politicial" issue as theymos put it.

Account trading on the other hand, can objectively be considered as manipulation of trust. Since a high ranked account, possibly one with trust, being sold to someone else, means that account is not a reflection of the new owner's trust rating.

It kind of goes both ways when you think about it. Why is Lauda allowed to manipulate trust by advocating inclusion or exclusion of specific members, while if someone else advocates for HER exclusoon, it's neg-trust. That's some double standards for you guys.

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bill gator
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February 05, 2019, 07:57:55 PM
 #1129

It's really up to them

Is it though? It feels like they have to sign their names to other users and potentially be associated with their actions, and it's possible that nobody has met their criteria to be added onto their trust list. It doesn't seem fair that they should be excluded, because they are conservative with their trust list. Maybe I am being naive to the importance of this criteria.

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February 05, 2019, 07:58:25 PM
 #1130

You want me to show you where current DT members got their merit from ?

Maybe you should start reading how they defended their merit from BS posts.

Actually I would be curious if you have some good read for me  Grin

Edit: Am I included in you "current DT"?

No you left a false feedback.Claiming that i have a personal vendetta against all DT members is a simple lie.I have issues with some DT members thats correct but that has nothing to do will all DT members in general.
I'm also coworked with some DT members in the past and never had a problem with them.Its just the small group who basicly turned an ant into an elephant because of their abuse,arrogance and ignorance which i'm trying to change.
However when i see double standards being holden up by DT members i got an issue with that.
As you know german have a very high level of "Gerechtigkeitssinn" and don't tolerate these kind of abuse.

Quote
I wanted to know if I am part of his DT merit investigation

No you arent.I have not the time to check everyone.Community would see it if you would abuse it.

 

While it is debatable if my feedback deserves a neg the content of said feedback is 100% accurate.


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OgNasty
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February 05, 2019, 08:00:55 PM
Merited by bill gator (1)
 #1131

I find it extraordinarily strange that members like minerjones and philipma1957 have found themselves no longer part of DT1. That doesn't seem appropriate and I hope it changes soon.
It's really up to them:
- Your trust list must include at least 10 users, not including ~distrust entries.
More than enough users included them, but they didn't include enough users by themselves:
Quote
Trust list for: philipma1957 (492 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (BPIP)
Back to index (created 2019-02-03 Sun 00.08h)

philipma1957 Trusts:
-ck (154 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
buysolar (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
TookDk (15 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
HagssFIN (271 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
generalt (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
kilo17 (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
loshia1974 (29 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

That's a shame.  Looking at the list, DT would likely benefit from their inclusion.

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February 05, 2019, 08:01:14 PM
Merited by bill gator (1)
 #1132

I'm aware of what is causing them to no longer be part of DT1, but I am thinking about the strict requirements for users that are pretty unanimously agreed upon as solid additions to it. I can't think of a better alternative that would be fair, but it just seems out of place to me personally that these two were removed. It's possible that a user be a good addition to DT1 and not have a proper custom trust list, right?

minerjones and ibminer were part of previous DT1 so they clearly opted out by removing their trust lists. You can't force them into it nor would it make much sense anyway, since their lists are empty. You can still make their ratings matter by including them in your list.

Not sure about Phil but he's not a fan of DT drama so maybe also opting out. dooglus was last active just over 3 days ago so likely a victim of the inactivity rule. I would suggest to review his trust list and include anyone who you think is worthy. Same goes for any DT1 member I guess. Double up the inclusions if you're worried about someone going on a vacation and taking part of DT2 out.

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February 05, 2019, 08:01:53 PM
 #1133

It's really up to them
Is it though? It feels like they have to sign their names to other users and potentially be associated with their actions, and it's possible that nobody has met their criteria to be added onto their trust list. It doesn't seem fair that they should be excluded, because they are conservative with their trust list. Maybe I am being naive to the importance of this criteria.
Part of being on DT1 is adding users to DT2. If you're not adding anyone, why would you be on DT1? They're still included on DT2 anyway.

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February 05, 2019, 08:02:01 PM
 #1134

It's possible that a user be a good addition to DT1 and not have a proper custom trust list, right?
You should have a proper custom list if you're going to be adding others to DT2.

The only thing that is gained from adding users without custom lists to DT1 is that they will have DT1 vote power. It seems better reserved for those that are active in the forum and in trust.

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February 05, 2019, 08:03:08 PM
Last edit: February 05, 2019, 08:14:24 PM by H8bussesNbicycles
 #1135

I'm disappointed in the reaction to this post.


thank you Theymos !

If the "gaming" takes the form of strategically sending a lot of merit, creating sockuppets, and stuff like that, then no. That sort of gaming might get me to blacklist people, in fact. But if it looks more like politics, then that's OK, and that's what H8bussesNbicycles's thread looks like to me.
I respectfully disagree. While I figured their scheme would never work and that you would blacklist the lot of them if it did, I really don't see it being attempted for any reason other than to scam people, or to help other scammers, hence my feedback. This is way more than just politics, even if they try to make it appear that that's all it is. I stand by my feedback, and invite anyone who disagrees with it to exclude me from their trust lists. It's all right; I've never given negative trust simply for disagreeing with me, and I'm not about to start now.

im not trying to scam anyone or help anyone scam anyone !


the point is REMOVE LAUDA FROM DT
laudas controlling mentality is bad for this forum
very net-negative and dangerous to freedom
tman and owlcatz too but lauda is the greatest evil


good that lauda rightfully has negative dt marks again to warn others
if you exclude ognasty again im coming for you next too
my next list will include all who include ognasty and ~ all who ~ ognasty if you kick him out again !
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February 05, 2019, 08:07:52 PM
 #1136

Part of being on DT1 is adding users to DT2. If you're not adding anyone, why would you be on DT1?

That's valid, good point.

You can't force them into it nor would it make much sense anyway, since their lists are empty. You can still make their ratings matter by including them in your list.

I wouldn't want to force anybody into doing something they don't want to do. I hadn't put as much research into it as I would've liked before speaking on it, because you're right.

Not sure about Phil but he's not a fan of DT drama so maybe also opting out.

I can't think of anybody that is a fan of DT drama. It's sad if anybody is bowing away from being a benefit to the community because of it.

I would suggest to review his trust list and include anyone who you think is worthy.

This is probably a good idea to do for anybody you strongly agree with their ratings/network.
Time to go use Loyce's trust-viewer. Cheesy


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February 05, 2019, 08:08:24 PM
 #1137

tman and owlcatz too but lauda is the greatest evil

Let me just say that your wasted effort is greatly appreciated. Any time you spend tilting at those windmills is not spent scamming someone so that's a net positive for the forum. Thank you and keep trying.

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February 05, 2019, 08:10:26 PM
 #1138

However if he tried to actually "game" the system to his advantage (not saying he did) should THAT be tagged?

With gaming the system I mean influencing DT list for his own sake or agenda and not for legitimate reasons. See Thule et al.

If the "gaming" takes the form of strategically sending a lot of merit, creating sockuppets, and stuff like that, then no. That sort of gaming might get me to blacklist people, in fact. But if it looks more like politics, then that's OK, and that's what H8bussesNbicycles's thread looks like to me.
Look at my trust right now,does their feedback appropriate? accused me of conspiracy by distrusting people that i wanted to? looks like they are abusing the trust system..I am not active for months but i logged in everyday and read some useful threads and then by customizing my trustlist gives me a redtrust?
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February 05, 2019, 08:13:02 PM
 #1139

You want me to show you where current DT members got their merit from ?

Maybe you should start reading how they defended their merit from BS posts.

Actually I would be curious if you have some good read for me  Grin

Edit: Am I included in you "current DT"?

No you left a false feedback.Claiming that i have a personal vendetta against all DT members is a simple lie.I have issues with some DT members thats correct but that has nothing to do will all DT members in general.
I'm also coworked with some DT members in the past and never had a problem with them.Its just the small group who basicly turned an ant into an elephant because of their abuse,arrogance and ignorance which i'm trying to change.
However when i see double standards being holden up by DT members i got an issue with that.
As you know german have a very high level of "Gerechtigkeitssinn" and don't tolerate these kind of abuse.

Quote
I wanted to know if I am part of his DT merit investigation

No you arent.I have not the time to check everyone.Community would see it if you would abuse it.

 

While it is debatable if my feedback deserves a neg the content of said feedback is 100% accurate.

I highly doubt that
So you claim

Quote
defends anyone speaking up against any DT member hoping to fuel his attempt to actually manipulate the system.

You want me to show you tons of threads of members claiming that they have been abused where i didn't participated because i agreed with DT members opinion ?

Also you claim i try to manipulate the system.If theymos gives me voting rights and the right to support people i like and dislike people i don't like why you call it manipulation of the system ?Isn't the system by theymos constructed this way to actually do so ?
I mean Lauda is allowed to promote people he likes and puts everyone in their distrust list they don't like with the comment you don't deserve to be DT1.
So if Lauda is doing so its ok but when i say to Lauda you don't deserve to be DT1 because of your past abuse its a manipulation of the system ?

You seem very young 27 and seeing you are just a single year on that forum it clearly shows me you are missing a lot of experience and knowledge what was before your time on that forum and the history of some DT members.What i can tell you is they don't appreciate your presence and would kick you immedently if they could to choose somebody else.You are just tolarated by them and nothing more.


Quote
Let me just say that your wasted effort is greatly appreciated. Any time you spend tilting at those windmills is not spent scamming someone so that's a net positive for the forum. Thank you and keep trying.

Why didn't DT member tagged you in June 2018 when buying an legendary account ?No explanation ?


Quote
Look at my trust right now,does their feedback appropriate? accused me of conspiracy by distrusting people that i wanted to? looks like they are abusing the trust system..I am not active for months but i logged in everyday and read some useful threads and then by customizing my trustlist gives me a redtrust?

Foxpop would never do so.He clearly said he would never negative tagg someone who has other opinions than him.

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February 05, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
 #1140

Quote
taikuri13
WhiteManWhite
What are these people doing in DT1? Looks like the ruskis have succesfully colluded their way into DT1. Smiley

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