Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia.

[Balthazar]

Well i consider myself ignorant compared to our great fathers and old testaments.

Religions are changing syncroniously with society. The modern christianity went far away from its 2000 years old origins. I don't see a reason why should we think that priest class is smarter than scientists or healthcare workers...

I believe in some collective amnesia when previous civilisations went down (for example the one that build pyramids from the middle east to asia or south america, gobekli tepe, the easter island, or even the atlantid myth or noa's arch, etc..).

If you wish to get rid of the people then physical elimination isn't enough. You need to erase all traces of their culture from existance, otherwise it could be resurrected and come to get a revenge. See Inca Empire for example, it was destroyed by spanish conquistadors in the same manner. We even have no idea about structure of their government or philosophy... Because the most of evidences were destroyed to prevent the people from resurrecting their empire.

and i just dont want to fall in the trap of over rationalization and loosing what makes us human: our souls.

Our intelligence and logic are, in fact, the foundation of our soul. Animals have no soul because they're not capable of making the difficult conclusions. They're simply reacting without any estimation of the consequences.

[Balthazar]

Now you are psychoanalyzing me?

Didn't even started... And not interested in that, actually.

That's a Marxist tactic, which is used to pathologize disagreement and avoid honest debate.

See your own messages and you will find a real marxist tactic there.

and avoid honest debate

There is no honest debate possible while one side has no idea about the subject. I'm sorry, but it's a fact... You're constantly confusing the events from very different times and ignoring every my attempt to explain that. And it's not the only issue here.

Have a nice day, I let you to consider yourself as the "winner".

[iCEBREAKER]

Icebreaker, in your citation of Lenin, where does he say it applies to "Ukraine only"?

Also, first you say that you'd take a testimony of a Ukrainian and not some Russian, and once I offer you an option of such testimony, you swipe it aside and say you will go by Solzhenicin's words, who is Russian.

Who said anything about "Ukraine only?"  That is just your attempt to muddy the waters by quibbling over details, not an actual quote.

Outside of the Moscowsphere, it is common knowledge shared by all (but especially Soviet dissidents like A.S. and Soviet victims like Ukrainians) that Lenin targeted the "kulak" farmers of several countries, which ultimately led to the mass murder by starvation of millions in Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, and other Soviet Republics.

When NATO is sitting directly on your entire European border, because your FSU neighbors rightfully fear that a Russia who refuses to acknowledge past atrocities and seems eager to repeat them, remember I warned you against these obnoxious attempts to revise history.

[DarkForces]

If you wish to get rid of the people then physical elimination isn't enough.
You need to erase all traces of their culture from existance,
otherwise it could be resurrected and come to get a revenge.

Wow, you KKKremlin boys REALLY got that down pat!

Tell me, is this what you are doing to the Crimean Tatars?

What you tried to do to the Poles/Ukrainians/Baltics?

[Balthazar]

If you wish to get rid of the people then physical elimination isn't enough. You need to erase all traces of their culture from existance, otherwise it could be resurrected and come to get a revenge.

Wow, you KKKremlin boys REALLY got that down pat!

Tell me, is this what you are doing to the Crimean Tatars?

What you tried to do to the Poles/Ukrainians/Baltics?

Lol, you're so funny baby... Please don't stop getting quotes out of the context, that's all what you can do.

[DarkForces]

Lol, you're so funny... 

Why, thank you! Yer pretty fucking hilarious yourself, KKKomrade!

[myshownow]

When NATO is sitting directly on your entire European border, because your FSU neighbors rightfully fear that a Russia who refuses to acknowledge past atrocities and seems eager to repeat them, remember I warned you against these obnoxious attempts to revise history.

I'm intrigued by the NATO thrust of your posts. Hmm. NATO is just a convenient excuse for many current events to rectify history, but when it comes down to it, it's not really a big threat (the "pussification" of the WEst, if you may). Europe is becoming a backwater and your tales of doom tend to focus on a backwater. And you had the chutzpah to even warn...  

CLUE: Look at a more complete map & you'll see the European borders are just a SMALL corner of Russia. The bigger part is where the future is...

[Balthazar]

Lol, you're so funny... 

Why, thank you! Yer pretty fucking hilarious yourself, KKKomrade!

Is that all what you're capable to say?

[hdbuck]

Well i consider myself ignorant compared to our great fathers and old testaments.

Religions are changing syncroniously with society. The modern christianity went far away from its 2000 years old origins. I don't see a reason why should we think that priest class is smarter than scientists or healthcare workers...

I agree, i dont follow all the selfish priests, i follow the basic principles. i read the old books, not the modern over-adapted preaches. It is a whole, not some parts to interpret in your advantage.

I believe in some collective amnesia when previous civilisations went down (for example the one that build pyramids from the middle east to asia or south america, gobekli tepe, the easter island, or even the atlantid myth or noa's arch, etc..).

If you wish to get rid of the people then physical elimination isn't enough. You need to erase all traces of their culture from existance, otherwise it could be resurrected and come to get a revenge. See Inca Empire for example, it was destroyed by spanish conquistadors in the same manner. We even have no idea about structure of their government or phylosophy... Because the most of evidences were destroyed to prevent the people from resurrecting their empire.

You miss my point, from Abraham to Noa or even the Atlandis, i believe there was another very advanced civilization by that time and that probably some global (biblical) cataclysme has whipped it out from our memory. The only thing left is our good old myths and texts, but it is not because we dont have physical proofs that they were nonetheless real. This is what i call over-rationalization. Seeking proofs for everything, even when it naturally fades away as time passes by on our beloved planet could be misleading in that way.

and i just dont want to fall in the trap of over rationalization and loosing what makes us human: our souls.

Our intelligence and logic are, in fact, foundation of our soul. Animals have no soul because they're not capable of making the difficult conclusions. They're simply reacting without estimation of the consequences.

We are inteligent but i dont believe that it is all what we are. Come on, i mean, possibilities are infinite, even the big bang theory has suggested that there was something else. What about the biogenesis regarding the theory of evolution, what made the very first living cell possible? Are we alone in the universe? Lets stop fooling ourselves with our over-confindence thinking we understand everything and that what we dont is pure fantasy. We are all too much self orientated, with our little disputes, killing each other in the names of politicians, or even god, but this is just BS. Have some faith.

[DarkForces]

Lol, you're so funny... 

Why, thank you! Yer pretty fucking hilarious yourself, KKKomrade!

Is that all what you're capable to say?

You seem to be pre-programmed rather well, never truly deviating from the command parameters.

I will give the ex-Soviet system this much- they truly CREATED robots out of humans.

Rejecting the creed of your revolutionary forefathers does not ABSOLVE you of your sins.

You can give up your blood drenched idols and demonic war gods. There is still time.

[Balthazar]

hdbuck
Of course there always will be some set of unprovable basic statements. Entire math is built on the foundation of axioms.

Faith is necessary sometimes to choose the direction of study... For example, without faith there won't be nuclear reactors, solar panels and many other things. But faith is unable to replace the study itself.

P.S. I mean that this civilization could be destroyed by some other...

[chopstick]

Lol, you're so funny... 

Why, thank you! Yer pretty fucking hilarious yourself, KKKomrade!

Is that all what you're capable to say?

You seem to be pre-programmed rather well, never truly deviating from the command parameters.

I will give the ex-Soviet system this much- they truly CREATED robots out of humans.

Rejecting the creed of your revolutionary forefathers does not ABSOLVE you of your sins.

You can give up your blood drenched idols and demonic war gods. There is still time.

You know not of what you speak.

Putin and Russia are one of the few remaining countries willing to stand up to the new world order, dollar hegemony and the global elite cabal that, among other things, started the civil war in ukraine, set off the MH17 and 9/11 false flags, and much more.

[Balthazar]

Please hold these Putin speeches, I have a lunch now. Mentioning the conservative liberals isn't good for appetite.

[hdbuck]

hdbuck
Of course there always will be some set of unprovable basic statements. Entire math is built on the foundation of axioms.

Faith is necessary sometimes to choose the direction of study... For example, without faith there won't be nuclear reactors, solar panels and many other things. But faith is unable to replace the study itself.

P.S. I mean that this civilization could be destroyed by some other...

yes indeed, and ours is about to crash and burn because of zionists blind faith with their NWO crap. I'm just telling you, dont hate the poor christians and muslims, they have nothing to do with what is currently happening all around the world. Faith indeed allows progress, but its always been about religion anyway. The most important is just not to fall for the devil.

[Nemo1024]

When NATO is sitting directly on your entire European border, because your FSU neighbors rightfully fear that a Russia who refuses to acknowledge past atrocities and seems eager to repeat them, remember I warned you against these obnoxious attempts to revise history.

What about acknowledging the past atrocities committed by Georgia (Stalin/Djugashvili), Ukraine, the Baltic states.

By the way, in a way you are right: speaking of Ukraine as a separate from Russia entity makes as much sense as speaking of Gascogne as an entity separate from France. So past Ukrainian and Baltic atrocities go together with Russia, though thorough the CIA-styled social-egineered historical amnesia, these regions suddenly became completely separate entities, disconnected from their past history, over the course of the last 20 years.

About revising of history, you are a kettle calling the teapot. See my post about the 100th anniversary of the first commercial flight - a domestic flight St. Petersburg-Kiev, with an airplane built in Riga - to get a more realistic historical perspective:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=797183.0

[iCEBREAKER]

I'm intrigued by the NATO thrust of your posts. Hmm. NATO is just a convenient excuse for many current events to rectify history, but when it comes down to it, it's not really a big threat (the "pussification" of the WEst, if you may). Europe is becoming a backwater and your tales of doom tend to focus on a backwater. And you had the chutzpah to even warn...  

CLUE: Look at a more complete map & you'll see the European borders are just a SMALL corner of Russia. The bigger part is where the future is...

NATO isn't really a big threat?  Well then, you won't mind when Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Kazakhstan join us.   

Of course NATO already has a billion people, millions of troops, thousands of nuclear missiles, and hundreds of submarines, so maybe you should.

I see you allude to the China card.  How predicable.  But futile, because we all know China wants Siberia much more than an unwinnable war with SEATO and NATO.   

The only strategic advantage left is your gas exports, but that will be neutralized shortly as our LNG infrastructure is completed.   

Sorry, but Russia will not be allowed to impose famine in Ukraine, tanks in Prague, or Iron Curtains in Germany ever again.

Russia's bad behavior resulted in the creation of the greatest military alliance in history, which has already crushed the Warsaw Pact and will soon complete its mission to burn, then bury Lenin's stinking corpse once and for all.   

[DarkForces]

I'm intrigued by the NATO thrust of your posts. Hmm. NATO is just a convenient excuse for many current events to rectify history, but when it comes down to it, it's not really a big threat (the "pussification" of the WEst, if you may). Europe is becoming a backwater and your tales of doom tend to focus on a backwater. And you had the chutzpah to even warn...  

CLUE: Look at a more complete map & you'll see the European borders are just a SMALL corner of Russia. The bigger part is where the future is...

NATO isn't really a big threat?  Well then, you won't mind when Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Kazakhstan join us.   

Of course NATO already has a billion people, millions of troops, thousands of nuclear missiles, and hundreds of submarines, so maybe you should.

I see you allude to the China card.  How predicable.  But futile, because we all know China wants Siberia much more than an unwinnable war with SEATO and NATO.   

The only strategic advantage left is your gas exports, but that will be neutralized shortly as our LNG infrastructure is completed.   

Sorry, but Russia will not be allowed to impose famine in Ukraine, tanks in Prague, or Iron Curtains in Germany ever again.

Russia's bad behavior resulted in the creation of the greatest military alliance in history, which has already crushed the Warsaw Pact and will soon complete its mission to burn, then bury Lenin's stinking corpse once and for all.   

Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!!!

[Balthazar]

hdbuck
Of course there always will be some set of unprovable basic statements. Entire math is built on the foundation of axioms.

Faith is necessary sometimes to choose the direction of study... For example, without faith there won't be nuclear reactors, solar panels and many other things. But faith is unable to replace the study itself.

P.S. I mean that this civilization could be destroyed by some other...

yes indeed, and ours is about to crash and burn because of zionists blind faith with their NWO crap. I'm just telling you, dont hate the poor christians and muslims, they have nothing to do with what is currently happening all around the world. Faith indeed allows progress, but its always been about religion anyway. The most important is just not to fall for the devil.

So-called "zionists" (I have no idea why people are using this term) will loose their power gradually. Of course this temporary vacuum could cause some issues during the transitional period, but the fatal scenario is unlikely.

There is no reason for hate, they're just victims. I hope that suitable treatment will be eventually invented but currently we have no choice except supporting the lesser evil. State and independent institutions should provide financial and informational support for the peaceful religious movements in order to make them stronger against the radical ones.

[Nemo1024]

Sorry, but Russia will not be allowed to impose famine in Ukraine, tanks in Prague, or Iron Curtains in Germany ever again.

Russia's bad behavior resulted in the creation of the greatest military alliance in history, which has already crushed the Warsaw Pact and will soon complete its mission to burn, then bury Lenin's stinking corpse once and for all.  

There you go again. Again, Ukraine was but a small portion of Russia (actually, USSR, but I used "Russia" there intentionally to illustrate a previous, pre-1917, point) that got hit by famine.

It's not "Russia's bad behavour" that created NATO. NATO was created right after WWII (and Soviet Union was still depicted as the good guy then) as a covert future mechanism to invade/destroy Soviet Union, the US/UK plans for that existed even as WWI was still raging. Warsaw Pact was created as a response to NATO.

And, please, separate Russia (RSFSR) and Soviet Union (USSR) when talking about that period. Otherwise you stand guilty of rewriting history. Most of the Party Apparatus of USSR consisted of people coming from other republics than RSFSR.

Agree with you on the need to bury Lenin, though - it's long overdue.

[iCEBREAKER]

What about acknowledging the past atrocities committed by Georgia (Stalin/Djugashvili), Ukraine, the Baltic states.

By the way, in a way you are right: speaking of Ukraine as a separate from Russia entity makes as much sense as speaking of Gascogne as an entity separate from France. So past Ukrainian and Baltic atrocities go together with Russia, though thorough the CIA-styled social-egineered historical amnesia, these regions suddenly became completely separate entities, disconnected from their past history, over the course of the last 20 years.

About revising of history, you are a kettle calling the teapot. See my post about the 100th anniversary of the first commercial flight - a domestic flight St. Petersburg-Kiev, with an airplane built in Riga - to get a more realistic historical perspective:

I have the greatest respect for Russian civilization, which is why I mourn for the lost glory of the Tsar's Empire and despise the degenerate Marxists who destroyed it.

Do you know we celebrate Yuri's Night in America?  So please spare me the cheerleading trivia about first commercial flights.   

When the Kremlin blames Ukraine for being oppressed and starved under Communism, them pushes then around, that's precisely the kind of crap that makes them want to join NATO.

When the Kremlin blames Georgia for the crimes of Stalin's USSR, then pushes them around, that's also exactly the type of shit that makes them want to join NATO.

We know Ukraine and Russia share common ancestry and culture; that makes Russia's inability to stop abusing its sister all the more unforgivable.  Ditto for poor little Georgia.

All this conflict only benefits the oligarchs of New York, London, and Moscow!  Why can't Ukraine and Russia live together and trade in peace?  Ukraine needs gas to burn in the winter, Russia needs wheat, potatoes, and rye to make beer and vodka.  Work it out and stop killing each other FFS. 

Because if Russia refuses to stop bullying its smaller neighbors, we might unleash their old friends the Turks and may even let the Dragon out of its cramped cage to stretch its legs north of the Amur...