Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[suchmoon]

Blah blah, and we're back to defining what a win and a loss means for both sides. Already 20% of Ukraine are set not to just go under RU's sphere of influence but will become RU!

There is nothing to define, at least for Ukraine - they have a very clear goal. If you're referring to Putin's constantly changing goals of the "special operation" - that's what you get for believing kremlin.

And no, it doesn't "become RU". That's not how it works.

RU can justify their losses by gained territory, but i still don't think if it's a victory unless they get Odessa. But I'm perplexed by UA, what do you say when someone asks how we went from being mostly under RU's sphere in 2013 with some exposure to EU, and now after colossal looses, to completely loosing at least 20% of our land, potentially becoming a landlocked country, and now being fully reliant on RU/EU?

That may have made some sort of sense before February 24 but no one really takes this seriously in Ukraine anymore. There is no 20% with Putin, there is no treaty he won't break, there is no peaceful coexistence, so it's not really a choice most Ukrainians waste time concerning themselves with. Either beat Putin and his mobilized cannon fodder or suffer another 70 years of holodomor/genocide/rusification/deportations/I'm sure I'm forgetting some other imperial "benefits".

[1714299965]

1714299965

[TwitchySeal]

Blah blah, and we're back to defining what a win and a loss means for both sides. Already 20% of Ukraine are set not to just go under RU's sphere of influence but will become RU!

There is nothing to define, at least for Ukraine - they have a very clear goal. If you're referring to Putin's constantly changing goals of the "special operation" - that's what you get for believing kremlin.

And no, it doesn't "become RU". That's not how it works.

Take Kiev (Take 1,000 tanks to be blown up outside Kiev, retreat)
Decapitate the UA Government. (Zelinsky is now a global super star)
Stop Nato Expansion.  (Nato Expanded almost instantly)
Denazify Ukraine.  (Putin trades a bunch of Azof fighters for an oligarch buddy)

DaRube: "Blah blah, and we're back to defining what a win and a loss means for both sides."

[tvbcof]

Take Kiev (Take 1,000 tanks to be blown up outside Kiev, retreat)

Most of the footage I've seen of 'abandoned' Russian equipment look to me like a scrap yard with tow lines still attached in a lot of cases.  Looks to me like the notoriously clownish Western 'perception managers' are grasping at straws, and both Kiev and Kharkiv withdraws were executed pretty well by the Russians once they served their purposes.

Again, it's a shame that anyone who accepted food form the 'invaders' during their stay are now being hunted down and murdered by the ZioNazi secret services, but there isn't much Putin can do about that.  Calling it out in an attempt to lessen the suffering is the job of the international press and, as expected, they are falling flat.

Decapitate the UA Government. (Zelinsky is now a global super star)

As I said 6 months ago, Zelinsky is exactly the right man(-ish type thing) for the job of being the 'head' of Ukraine from the perspective of Putin.  They probably bent over backward to NOT harm a hair on his head, and they probably lose sleep at night worrying about the Western powers discarding him...or him OD-ing on drugs.

Stop Nato Expansion.  (Nato Expanded almost instantly)

It is a foregone conclusion which would have happened, albeit mostly a matter of there being more visibility as things get washed up.  Russia can at best manipulate how it occurs.  At present, Russia is bigger and NATO is more depleted and generally something of a laughing stock as they get ready to freeze this winter.

And the disposal of ZioNazi Ukroid cannon fodder continues at an alarming pace which people in any position of power on either side consider to be a feature rather than a bug.

Denazify Ukraine.  (Putin trades a bunch of Azof fighters for an oligarch buddy)

You make a one of your rare good points here!

I cannot see this going over very well, though it may be able to be swept under the carpet.  Or maybe it is ZioNazis that they managed to do some sort deep psychological work on.  We'll see.

It's worth note also that I said near the beginning of this thing that the 'de-nazification' of Ukraine as claimed by Putin seemed fake and gay and was probably mostly hot-air that the real deep-state powers in Russian cared little about.  Neo-Nazoid freaks are potentially useful tools, and I expect (higher functioning thinkers in) Russia to use them as well when it makes sense to do so.

[suchmoon]

Neo-Nazoid freaks are potentially useful tools, and I expect (higher functioning thinkers in) Russia to use them as well when it makes sense to do so.

They already are, try to keep up.

Instructions for the disposal of [Ukrainian] prisoners of war.

1. If possible, do not report to the higher command about the presence of captured enemy soldiers and officers. If the report was carried out (to improve reporting), then report that the enemy is wounded and may die (even if this is not the case).

2. If there is time and opportunity - interrogate the captured enemy soldiers. First, without physical pressure, then again, with elements of impact such as chopping off fingers, cutting off an ear, blows to the groin and joints, driving needles under the nails.
The main thing is that the enemy could consciously answer questions.

Questions to ask the enemy
- What military unit
- Title, position
- Where are known command posts, positions, supply routes (can show on offline maps)
- Number of vehicles
- Number of heavy weapons
- How is the delivery
- What communication frequencies are used.
- Morale within the unit.

Answers can be videotaped.

3. After interrogation - either shoot the prisoners (do this without attracting attention and so that the fighters who do not participate in this do not see it, in order to avoid draining), or slaughter. It is desirable that everyone take part in this, so that in the future they would keep the secret of what happened.
The second option is to wound the prisoners and send them to the hospital. It is necessary to inflict a wound in the area of ​​the liver (in order to exclude the chance of survival) and groin. It is recommended to shoot from a short distance through an aramid package (in order to avoid burns on the body that can show the intentional nature of the injury).

Don't be afraid to kill the prisoners!
Specialists and those to whom they are important for accountability do not appear on the front line.
There will be no punishment for this.

By the way, if you can identify the bodies of those killed, don't give them away like that either.
Take the coordinates of the exact burial place, take a photo so that the face can be seen and offer relatives to buy data on the place of burial of their son, husband and other things for an amount of 2 to 5 thousand dollars.
Money can be transferred to a bitcoin wallet (and you spent it on equipment, drones, etc.)

[BADecker]

You make a one of your rare good points here!

I cannot see this going over very well, though it may be able to be swept under the carpet.  Or maybe it is ZioNazis that they managed to do some sort deep psychological work on.  We'll see.

It's worth note also that I said near the beginning of this thing that the 'de-nazification' of Ukraine as claimed by Putin seemed fake and gay and was probably mostly hot-air that the real deep-state powers in Russian cared little about.  Neo-Nazoid freaks are potentially useful tools, and I expect (higher functioning thinkers in) Russia to use them as well when it makes sense to do so.

Like the sanctions only helped Russia, it will be interesting to see how these 'Neo-Nazoid freaks' are going to be used to move Russia forward.

Putin was involved in attempting to change Russian history in the history books, so that it would look like Tartaria never really existed. It only served to make curious people look into it more. And now we know that the whole of NE Europe and Western Asia was once the largest nation in the world.

Putin could hide it somewhat, but these people are coming back together again. It will be like the Soviet Union all over again. The only question is, will Russia be able to remain the leading country in the area? The Neo-Nazoid freaks will probably be used to help Putin make Russia greater than ever.

[tvbcof]

You make a one of your rare good points here!

I cannot see this going over very well, though it may be able to be swept under the carpet.  Or maybe it is ZioNazis that they managed to do some sort deep psychological work on.  We'll see.

It's worth note also that I said near the beginning of this thing that the 'de-nazification' of Ukraine as claimed by Putin seemed fake and gay and was probably mostly hot-air that the real deep-state powers in Russian cared little about.  Neo-Nazoid freaks are potentially useful tools, and I expect (higher functioning thinkers in) Russia to use them as well when it makes sense to do so.

Like the sanctions only helped Russia, it will be interesting to see how these 'Neo-Nazoid freaks' are going to be used to move Russia forward.

Putin was involved in attempting to change Russian history in the history books, so that it would look like Tartaria never really existed. It only served to make curious people look into it more. And now we know that the whole of NE Europe and Western Asia was once the largest nation in the world.

Putin could hide it somewhat, but these people are coming back together again. It will be like the Soviet Union all over again. The only question is, will Russia be able to remain the leading country in the area? The Neo-Nazoid freaks will probably be used to help Putin make Russia greater than ever.

One could argue that they already are (using Neo-Naziod freaks) via Wagner, and I don't doubt that there is a contingent in that org, but what gives these guys their power is ideological drive and that doesn't seem to be a big part of any PMC's that I can think of.

I could see a situation where Putin's guys do use ideological psychopaths the drive out the Soros/CIA 'NGO' slimeballs and deprive them of local useful idiot class fodder.  That would generally include the greenies (aka, watermelons), sex perverts, etc.  Depends on how bad and how persistent the problem gets.  As a matter of fact I think that under Surkov they already toyed with that strategy to some degree.

[BADecker]

You make a one of your rare good points here!

I cannot see this going over very well, though it may be able to be swept under the carpet.  Or maybe it is ZioNazis that they managed to do some sort deep psychological work on.  We'll see.

It's worth note also that I said near the beginning of this thing that the 'de-nazification' of Ukraine as claimed by Putin seemed fake and gay and was probably mostly hot-air that the real deep-state powers in Russian cared little about.  Neo-Nazoid freaks are potentially useful tools, and I expect (higher functioning thinkers in) Russia to use them as well when it makes sense to do so.

Like the sanctions only helped Russia, it will be interesting to see how these 'Neo-Nazoid freaks' are going to be used to move Russia forward.

Putin was involved in attempting to change Russian history in the history books, so that it would look like Tartaria never really existed. It only served to make curious people look into it more. And now we know that the whole of NE Europe and Western Asia was once the largest nation in the world.

Putin could hide it somewhat, but these people are coming back together again. It will be like the Soviet Union all over again. The only question is, will Russia be able to remain the leading country in the area? The Neo-Nazoid freaks will probably be used to help Putin make Russia greater than ever.

One could argue that they already are (using Neo-Naziod freaks) via Wagner, and I don't doubt that there is a contingent in that org, but what gives these guys their power is ideological drive and that doesn't seem to be a big part of any PMC's that I can think of.

I could see a situation where Putin's guys do use ideological psychopaths the drive out the Soros/CIA 'NGO' slimeballs and deprive them of local useful idiot class fodder.  That would generally include the greenies (aka, watermelons), sex perverts, etc.  Depends on how bad and how persistent the problem gets.  As a matter of fact I think that under Surkov they already toyed with that strategy to some degree.

Thank you.

Part of the strength is the pay method. Will Russian gold or gold-backed Rubles energize their soldiers more than the USD fiat paper will energize Ukraine soldiers? That's what it is all about at the base of things... gold real money (Russia) against fiat debt money (Ukrain/Soros/CIA/NATO/Europe).

Sure, the US wants Siberia and whatever else they can get. Maybe land is worth more than gold. If they can steal and control the Russian lands, is it worth it if they crash the USD useless fiat in the process?

[LTU_btc]

One thousand were arrested, and there were about two thousand protesters in total (mostly girls and students, that is, those who are already exempt from mobilization). This is a shameful fiasco of the opposition in Russia, even in the spring, more than 5 thousand people took to the streets against the start of the special operation, and when Navalny was arrested, there were about 11 thousand protesters. There is no systemic opposition in Russia. I'm not happy about it and I'm not sad, I'm just stating.

In other news - sky is blue. I'm not really sure why you're surprised about weak opposition in Russia. When main figures of opposition is either killed, in prison or had to run away from Russia for their own safety. Repressions against opposition destroyed it and currently such protests like in 2011 is impossible. And also, giving subpoena to army for protesters is last nail to coffin against protests.
It's same like to be surprised that 2020 protests in Belarus didn't gave any results

What weakness are you talking about? If about the lack of personnel of the participants in the special operation - well, this will be fixed soon. What does Ukraine hope for when it loses its only advantage? The referenda will start tomorrow and end in three days. Ukraine will never return four regions to itself, as well as Crimea.

7 months of ''special operation'' and now Russia announced mobilization third time (After WWI and WWII). Everything is going fine. But why the hell it was needed if according to Russian data they have just about 6000 troops killed? Where are these 200k troops who went to this war initially? You're planning to take Ukraine with quantity, but quality also matters. I think there is big difference between contract army which was prepared for this ''operation'' and conscripts without experience in war and questionable motivation.
You're not doing very well with your future predictions. I hope I don't have to remind about 9th May parade in Kyiv.

[johhnyUA]

Blah blah, and we're back to defining what a win and a loss means for both sides. Already 20% of Ukraine are set not to just go under RU's sphere of influence but will become RU!

And no, it doesn't "become RU". That's not how it works.

Especially the fact that after retreat from Kharkiv oblast it already not like 20 %. A little bit less, around 12-15 %/

7 months of ''special operation'' and now Russia announced mobilization third time (After WWI and WWII). Everything is going fine. But why the hell it was needed if according to Russian data they have just about 6000 troops killed? Where are these 200k troops who went to this war initially? You're planning to take Ukraine with quantity, but quality also matters. I think there is big difference between contract army which was prepared for this ''operation'' and transcripts without experience in war and questionable motivation.
You're not doing very well with your future predictions. I hope I don't have to remind about 9th May parade in Kyiv.

As I know, russians will not train their conscripted "mobiks" because they have only one NATO-standard army polygon - in Mulino (it can train around 5-10k per month). So only few amount of mobilized people will get proper training.

[paxmao]

Is that a process where you elect your representatives

Exactly.

toppled in colored coup if not favored by USA?

Unlike dictators, elected officials are supposed to have accountability, and may even be forced to resign if they try sketchy shit like passing authoritarian laws. If USA doesn't favor authoritarians that's probably a good thing but to each their own.

A bit of whattabout, but US has favoured and favours any regime that is prone to let them do business on favourable terms. There is no moral superiority on how the US goes about supporting or not a certain government and that has been clear for decades (perhaps a century now) in Latin America.

Now, for me this is about the people of Ukraine. They need to be able to choose their destiny and my take is that they would rather not be under Adolf Putin and the army Chief Psychos.

[be.open]

What weakness are you talking about? If about the lack of personnel of the participants in the special operation - well, this will be fixed soon. What does Ukraine hope for when it loses its only advantage? The referenda will start tomorrow and end in three days. Ukraine will never return four regions to itself, as well as Crimea.

7 months of ''special operation'' and now Russia announced mobilization third time (After WWI and WWII). Everything is going fine. But why the hell it was needed if according to Russian data they have just about 6000 troops killed? Where are these 200k troops who went to this war initially? You're planning to take Ukraine with quantity, but quality also matters. I think there is big difference between contract army which was prepared for this ''operation'' and conscripts without experience in war and questionable motivation.
You're not doing very well with your future predictions. I hope I don't have to remind about 9th May parade in Kyiv.

Everything is in the same place - they control 20% of the territory of Ukraine (which in a few days, according to the results of the referendum, will become the territory of Russia).

Partial mobilization in Russia is a symmetrical response to mobilization in Ukraine. After the start of the special operation, the number of the Armed Forces of Ukraine increased from 200 thousand soldiers to more than a million. In general, the plan to launch an operation with such a small contingent of personnel was a little adventurous, according to Western intelligence, at least 450 thousand people are needed to establish control over the eastern coast of the Dnieper. Russia launched the operation with half the number of soldiers (even counting the LDNR militias).

[DaRude]

Blah blah, and we're back to defining what a win and a loss means for both sides. Already 20% of Ukraine are set not to just go under RU's sphere of influence but will become RU!

There is nothing to define, at least for Ukraine - they have a very clear goal. If you're referring to Putin's constantly changing goals of the "special operation" - that's what you get for believing kremlin.

And no, it doesn't "become RU". That's not how it works.

RU can justify their losses by gained territory, but i still don't think if it's a victory unless they get Odessa. But I'm perplexed by UA, what do you say when someone asks how we went from being mostly under RU's sphere in 2013 with some exposure to EU, and now after colossal looses, to completely loosing at least 20% of our land, potentially becoming a landlocked country, and now being fully reliant on RU/EU?

That may have made some sort of sense before February 24 but no one really takes this seriously in Ukraine anymore. There is no 20% with Putin, there is no treaty he won't break, there is no peaceful coexistence, so it's not really a choice most Ukrainians waste time concerning themselves with. Either beat Putin and his mobilized cannon fodder or suffer another 70 years of holodomor/genocide/rusification/deportations/I'm sure I'm forgetting some other imperial "benefits".

Is UA's goal still to take Crimea? If so they must start doing work to manage expectations, "we tried to take Crimea, so we ended up loosing 20% of UA" just won't go down in history books for its great strategy. We protected NATO from RU sounds a tiny bit better. I just stated my personal opinion if Z stays in power and continues to hold Odessa I will fully admit that it won't be a full win for RU. See you can do these things when you're not just pushing propaganda, and always forced to claim that whatever happens is actually somehow good for your side. Putin's claimed goals of denazification and demilitarization are pretty amorphous so don't really see a point in changing them. I guess it won't "become RU" just as Donetsk and Crimea didn't became RU, doubt people living there care much about semantics.

I heard things were so terrible in 2010-2014 under RU leaning Yanukovych that 250% of population died from 3 holodomors and the other 1350% died from genocide in gulags just in the first year alone! In fact some say that, in 8yrs under RU people in Crimea, DNR, LNR were forced to eat raped Orc babies just to survive the winter!

Did a quick search on UA leaders in USSR and came up with the following:  

Leon Trotsky-leader in the Bolshevik faction, headed the Red Army - Born in modern Ukraine, Nationality Ukrainian
Lazar Kaganovich-one of the main associates of Joseph Stalin, known for helping Stalin come to power, given the task of implementation of the collectivization policy that influenced the 1932–33 famine (known as the Holodomor) - Born in modern Ukraine
Nikita Khrushchev-Soviet leader, transferred the Crimean Oblast from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR - Ukrainian wife
Leonid Brezhnev-Soviet leader - Born in modern Ukraine, Nationality Ukrainian
Mikhail Gorbachev-Soviet leader - Half Ukrainian (mother's side)

It's literally easier to find a Soviet leader without UA connection
(UA source) in 2016 17% of Ukrainians have a positive attitude towards Joseph Stalin's activities, 1% of them admire. that's about 7,3million people in Ukraine

Blah blah, and we're back to defining what a win and a loss means for both sides. Already 20% of Ukraine are set not to just go under RU's sphere of influence but will become RU!

There is nothing to define, at least for Ukraine - they have a very clear goal. If you're referring to Putin's constantly changing goals of the "special operation" - that's what you get for believing kremlin.

And no, it doesn't "become RU". That's not how it works.

Take Kiev (Take 1,000 tanks to be blown up outside Kiev, retreat)
Decapitate the UA Government. (Zelinsky is now a global super star)
Stop Nato Expansion.  (Nato Expanded almost instantly)
Denazify Ukraine.  (Putin trades a bunch of Azof fighters for an oligarch buddy)

DaRube: "Blah blah, and we're back to defining what a win and a loss means for both sides."

Not following what you're alluding to here

Blah blah, and we're back to defining what a win and a loss means for both sides. Already 20% of Ukraine are set not to just go under RU's sphere of influence but will become RU!

And no, it doesn't "become RU". That's not how it works.

Especially the fact that after retreat from Kharkiv oblast it already not like 20 %. A little bit less, around 12-15 %/

7 months of ''special operation'' and now Russia announced mobilization third time (After WWI and WWII). Everything is going fine. But why the hell it was needed if according to Russian data they have just about 6000 troops killed? Where are these 200k troops who went to this war initially? You're planning to take Ukraine with quantity, but quality also matters. I think there is big difference between contract army which was prepared for this ''operation'' and transcripts without experience in war and questionable motivation.
You're not doing very well with your future predictions. I hope I don't have to remind about 9th May parade in Kyiv.

As I know, russians will not train their conscripted "mobiks" because they have only one NATO-standard army polygon - in Mulino (it can train around 5-10k per month). So only few amount of mobilized people will get proper training.

Russia has a NATO-standard army polygon ?? But i'll leave these speculations up to you guys

Is that a process where you elect your representatives

Exactly.

toppled in colored coup if not favored by USA?

Unlike dictators, elected officials are supposed to have accountability, and may even be forced to resign if they try sketchy shit like passing authoritarian laws. If USA doesn't favor authoritarians that's probably a good thing but to each their own.

A bit of whattabout, but US has favoured and favours any regime that is prone to let them do business on favourable terms. There is no moral superiority on how the US goes about supporting or not a certain government and that has been clear for decades (perhaps a century now) in Latin America.

Now, for me this is about the people of Ukraine. They need to be able to choose their destiny and my take is that they would rather not be under Adolf Putin and the army Chief Psychos.

But isn't it funny how things always work out like this. After being the most vocal on this, handing out freedom cookies and then buying 8yrs to prep UA while not even attending Minsk agreements and tarnishing their reputation like Germany and France, since Feb 2022 USD is up around 17% against EUR, and up 23% against GBP   not too bad considering things didn't developed the way you wished. When someone looses money someone else must gain money, how many "freedom LNG" deliveries can Europe afford?

[TwitchySeal]

Partial mobilization in Russia is a symmetrical response to mobilization in Ukraine.

Ukraine has been mobilizing since February.

Putin is responding to RU military failures.

I do not see the prerequisites for mass mobilization in Russia; professional military personnel are doing their job quite well.

At what point do you realize that you're being fed lies?

Russia has a huge excess of natural resources and the most combat-ready army in the world

[tvbcof]

Partial mobilization in Russia is a symmetrical response to mobilization in Ukraine.

Ukraine has been mobilizing since February.
...

The Ukrainians were training up and equipping to finally win the civil war in Donbas for years.  Or I should say, NaZiocon NATO was, and using Ukroid Slav biological matter as one of the consumable weapons.  They had amassed and were about to pull the trigger and that's what forced Putin to finally give up, belatedly, on the peace option.  The only success the NaZiocons can really claim is the dead Ukroid Slav element of their plan.  The land-mass and GDP losses are significant and will probably get significantly worse.

[suchmoon]

Is UA's goal still to take Crimea? If so they must start doing work to manage expectations, "we tried to take Crimea, so we ended up loosing 20% of UA"

Ukraine didn't try to "take" anything. If Putin hadn't invaded Ukraine in February, likely eventually some sort of solution could have been reached that did not involve Crimea going back to Ukraine. But now that's less likely as it was proven quite comprehensively that any kind of territorial (or any other kind really) compromise with Putin is impossible. Just like Finland/Sweden staying neutral is no longer an option, great geopolitical victory.

I just stated my personal opinion if Z stays in power and continues to hold Odessa I will fully admit that it won't be a full win for RU. See you can do these things when you're not just pushing propaganda, and always forced to claim that whatever happens is actually somehow good for your side. Putin's claimed goals of denazification and demilitarization are pretty amorphous so don't really see a point in changing them.

Meanwhile in the real world, Ukraine is more militarized than it was in February, and nazis are fighting on Russian side. Another goal of "special operation"... achieved?

I guess it won't "become RU" just as Donetsk and Crimea didn't became RU, doubt people living there care much about semantics.

People who can remember and compare Mariupol before and after "RU" came to town - they might care.

Did a quick search on UA leaders in USSR and came up with the following:  

Stalin was from Georgia, doesn't mean Georgia wasn't/isn't oppressed, attacked, or otherwise negatively affected by Russia. I'm sure there were soviet leaders on many levels from many nations that suffered from the soviet regime. This proves nothing and surely doesn't mean that those nations now would want Russia to impose another regime on them, whether they call it soviet, "novorussia", or whatever.

(UA source) in 2016 17% of Ukrainians have a positive attitude towards Joseph Stalin's activities, 1% of them admire. that's about 7,3million people in Ukraine

730 million people in Ukraine... that explains why Putin's invasion is failing. How did he miscalculate so badly.

[BADecker]

...

730 million people in Ukraine... that explains why Putin's invasion is failing. How did he miscalculate so badly.

Lol. No wonder you are having trouble with your propaganda. Worldometer - https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-population/ - shows the population of Ukraine to be less than 44 million.

If the pop. was 730 million at one time, that only goes to show the success Russia is having there.

To be fair, most people moved out, not wanting to participate in a US war. Only the poor of the land couldn't afford to move. So they stay and die right along with Zelensky's militia.

[TwitchySeal]

...

730 million people in Ukraine... that explains why Putin's invasion is failing. How did he miscalculate so badly.

Lol. No wonder you are having trouble with your propaganda. Worldometer - https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-population/ - shows the population of Ukraine to be less than 44 million.

If the pop. was 730 million at one time, that only goes to show the success Russia is having there.

To be fair, most people moved out, not wanting to participate in a US war. Only the poor of the land couldn't afford to move. So they stay and die right along with Zelensky's militia.

Oops, you're making fun of another Putin fan boy, not suchmoon.

[DaRude]

Is UA's goal still to take Crimea? If so they must start doing work to manage expectations, "we tried to take Crimea, so we ended up loosing 20% of UA"

Ukraine didn't try to "take" anything. If Putin hadn't invaded Ukraine in February, likely eventually some sort of solution could have been reached that did not involve Crimea going back to Ukraine. But now that's less likely as it was proven quite comprehensively that any kind of territorial (or any other kind really) compromise with Putin is impossible. Just like Finland/Sweden staying neutral is no longer an option, great geopolitical victory.

I just stated my personal opinion if Z stays in power and continues to hold Odessa I will fully admit that it won't be a full win for RU. See you can do these things when you're not just pushing propaganda, and always forced to claim that whatever happens is actually somehow good for your side. Putin's claimed goals of denazification and demilitarization are pretty amorphous so don't really see a point in changing them.

Meanwhile in the real world, Ukraine is more militarized than it was in February, and nazis are fighting on Russian side. Another goal of "special operation"... achieved?

I guess it won't "become RU" just as Donetsk and Crimea didn't became RU, doubt people living there care much about semantics.

People who can remember and compare Mariupol before and after "RU" came to town - they might care.

Did a quick search on UA leaders in USSR and came up with the following:  

Leon Trotsky-leader in the Bolshevik faction, headed the Red Army - Born in modern Ukraine, Nationality Ukrainian
Lazar Kaganovich-one of the main associates of Joseph Stalin, known for helping Stalin come to power, given the task of implementation of the collectivization policy that influenced the 1932–33 famine (known as the Holodomor) - Born in modern Ukraine
Nikita Khrushchev-Soviet leader, transferred the Crimean Oblast from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR - Ukrainian wife
Leonid Brezhnev-Soviet leader - Born in modern Ukraine, Nationality Ukrainian
Mikhail Gorbachev-Soviet leader - Half Ukrainian (mother's side)

Stalin was from Georgia, doesn't mean Georgia wasn't/isn't oppressed, attacked, or otherwise negatively affected by Russia. I'm sure there were soviet leaders on many levels from many nations that suffered from the soviet regime. This proves nothing and surely doesn't mean that those nations now would want Russia to impose another regime on them, whether they call it soviet, "novorussia", or whatever.

(UA source) in 2016 17% of Ukrainians have a positive attitude towards Joseph Stalin's activities, 1% of them admire. that's about 7,3million people in Ukraine

730 million people in Ukraine... that explains why Putin's invasion is failing. How did he miscalculate so badly.

A "yes UA's goal is still to take back Crimea" would suffice, so do you personally agree with the "even though we lived fine up to 2014, we're now going to suicide everyone in order to prove a point to the world of just how bad Putin is" strategy? After RU escalates with mobilization and US backs off and doesn't make any new significant military aid commitments to the UA, what exactly is the point of sending UA military to the front lines? Is it to become a bigger victim?

Have you considered that people who can remember and compare Donetsk before and after the coup came to town and replaced their duly elected president (who they overwhelmingly voted for) might care too? But i guess that's where you say if they didn't resist and accepted the coup they'd be totally fine?


So you agree that Soviet leadership was fully diversified and represented with different nationalities all the way to the top. So Soviet famine that killed millions of Russians under non ethnically Russian leader is not that leader's nation fault, yet famine that killed millions of Ukrainians under non Russian leaders i still somehow Russia's fault?  


I know that maths can be hard sometimes so let me help you out, 17% of Ukrainians support Stalin * 43mil population of UA = ~7.300.000 million of Ukrainians support Stalin. Now for your homework try to count how many Georgians support Stalin yourself

Georgians display alarmingly high levels of admiration for Stalin—45 percent of them express a positive attitude toward the former Soviet leader.

https://carnegieeurope.eu/2013/03/01/stalin-puzzle-deciphering-post-soviet-public-opinion-pub-51075

[suchmoon]

A "yes UA's goal is still to take back Crimea" would suffice, so do you personally agree with the "even though we lived fine up to 2014, we're now going to suicide everyone in order to prove a point to the world of just how bad Putin is" strategy? After RU escalates with mobilization and US backs off and doesn't make any new significant military aid commitments to the UA, what exactly is the point of sending UA military to the front lines? Is it to become a bigger victim?

No.

Have you considered that people who can remember and compare Donetsk before and after the coup came to town and replaced their duly elected president (who they overwhelmingly voted for) might care too? But i guess that's where you say if they didn't resist and accepted the coup they'd be totally fine?

Yanik's resignation didn't ruin Donetsk, the Russian invasion (2014 and even more so 2022) did. You need to clarify your point here if you have one. Reposting Kremlin propaganda in the form of loaded questions doesn't make it any more valid.

So you agree that Soviet leadership was fully diversified and represented with different nationalities all the way to the top. So Soviet famine that killed millions of Russians under non ethnically Russian leader is not that leader's nation fault, yet famine that killed millions of Ukrainians under non Russian leaders i still somehow Russia's fault?

You're the one bringing up "leader" nationality. I'm saying it means jack shit, it's the fucked up Russian/Soviet regime that caused this and it makes sense that Russia's neighbors (other than ones with their own wannabe dictators like Belarus' potato fuehrer) don't want any of that. Which part of it is still too difficult for you to understand?

[TwitchySeal]

I remember back when Ukraine fighting back at all was considered stupid and suicidal because they obviously had no chance to win even a single battle against the mighty Russian army.

Now look at us, discussing whether they should go for Crimea or not.

To think how naive we all were.