Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[be.open]

So a referendum will not be recognized by Ukraine.

And who asks the opinion of Ukraine? When (if) these regions become part of Russia, the river of military aid from the West will turn into a thin stream or dry up altogether. Because it is one thing to help Ukraine defend its territories, and quite another to help Ukraine attack Russian territory. Think about it at your leisure.

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[johhnyUA]

Ah yes, the old WWII tactic of artillery bombardment followed by lengthen firing range and infantry charge.

WWI tactic. In WWII it was reused, mostly by soviets. Again, because of low tactic skills. It's easy to kill everything through artillery and then move forward.

There is one other drawback that hasn't been mentioned yet: It costs a seriously high number of troops killed, especially against an enemy that holds its ground. After all, they are charging directly into machine-gun fire (of which Ukraine has plenty of those everywhere).

It costs a lot of munitions. Ukrainian soldiers destorying storages with needed artillery projectiles, so in near future this tactic will not be achievable by orc's horde.

[tvbcof]

Amnesty International: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians

Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.

Amnesty Intl's report lines up with a mountain of other evidence and observations from since the 'special military operation' started.

The interesting thing about this is that if the Ukrainians feel more safe in schools and hospitals, and behind human shields, that pretty solidly implies that the Russians are at least making some efforts to avoid such targets.

[DrBeer]

It is very interesting to listen to the opinion of the "experts" of fans of raZhist propaganda on the topic "air defense systems that have no analogues"! Is it about the C400, C500 complexes and other useless rubbish standing in the Crimean Autonomous Republic? Tell again the tale about "self-detonation" in 3 places at once?! From the same clowns, these representatives of the raZhist Defense Ministry!

[LTU_btc]

And who asks the opinion of Ukraine? When (if) these regions become part of Russia, the river of military aid from the West will turn into a thin stream or dry up altogether. Because it is one thing to help Ukraine defend its territories, and quite another to help Ukraine attack Russian territory. Think about it at your leisure.

LOL, what a insight. If occupied regions of Ukraine will connected to Russia through pseudo referendum, it won't change anything. Only Russia and few their allies will consider it as territory of Russia, while rest of world will see it as territory of Ukraine, occupied by Russia. Pretty much like Crimea, DNR and LPR.

[DaRude]

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Ah whataboutism, there's no hypocrisy or double standard that it cannot justify. Weren't you taught that whataboutism cannot apply when creating laws? And is actually called discrimination in law. But i must agree it's a convenient tool to prevent population from questioning any and all laws.

When one country invades and the other says "we don't want your books anymore" it's absurd to claim "discrimination". Come on, master of whataboutism, find us some historic analogy. Like Russian imports of German books during WWII.

If your logic leads you to the following conclusion, think it's safe to say that you're on the wrong side of the argument:
Masha and the Bear = brainwashing children, needs to be censored, require exceptions to import
Mein kampf = totally fine for unlimited circulation without age restriction

That's your conclusion, not sure why you're ascribing that to me. I'm sure there are many bad books issued in countries that Ukraine has good relationships with. I never argued otherwise. It's a tangent that doesn't mean anything in the context of restricting book imports from a country they're at war with.

Certainly the whole argument is ridiculous. Is like asking Israel to make Mein Kampf compulsory reading at school or making Carl Marx a compulsory reading at Texans schools. They somehow keep on insisting that Ukraine should actually be praising and chanting about the main language of the state that is trying to annihilate them. Senseless at all point.

Not censoring all books based on a language != compulsory reading of a specific book, or that anyone needs to praise and chant anything.
Such a stretch, c'mon, you know better than this

Sure, let's make a chapter called "Stalin, the friend of Ukrainians" mandatory reading in Ukrainian schools. We do not want to censor anything do we?

Where's suchmoon yelling, false dilemma fallacy, when you need him/her?
You know there are options between compulsory reading of a specific book and censoring import of books based simply on the language. Would the book "Stalin, the friend of Ukrainians" be any better if it was written in English or Moldovan or Polish? Ban the propaganda, why touch scientific journals, kids books, and soap operas for grandmas? But think we all know the answer to that...

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You know Russia invaded Ukraine right?  They're handing out passports in the areas they occupy and bombing the areas they don't.  Putin literally said Ukraine isn't a real country.   The book ban you're talking about happened after the war started, not before.  It was a response to Russia trying to destroy Ukraine literally, and you're trying to make Russia out as the victim because they banned Russian books....in the middle of the war...Such a stretch, c'mon you know better than this.  You can't invade a country and then criticize them because after you invaded they banned your books.

Censoring of Russian language in Ukraine started after 2014 coup/revolution, so if we take that as the start of the war, then you are correct. Are there any other examples in the world where a country censors books based on the language they're written in? If you have to censor import of 60% of books already in circulation, then the war is clearly ideological and inside the population.

...Blah blah blah ...
This is called "protectionism of your own culture". If you want, you can listen russian content on russian resources.
...Blah blah blah ...
Bigger amount of Himars - faster we will get to the point where orcs will be left without artillery. And this is really not good why americans don't want to provide a bigger amount of Himars to us.

Might want to dial down on "cultural protectionism" when totally dependent on USA and EU.

What makes you think that USA goals are completely aligned with UA? Have you even considered that the goal of Americans might not be for UA to win, but just to administer the maximum amount of losses on the RU side (and consequently UA)? Will you concede that the losses will be senseless if/when RU takes Kharkiv/Odesa/Zaporizhzhia/Dnipro or any and all UA losses can be justified by claiming that they were actually protecting Poland from Russian orcs?

[johhnyUA]

Might want to dial down on "cultural protectionism" when totally dependent on USA and EU.

Yes, this is how it works. I can't see anything illogical in this statement. How does Himars affect culture?

What makes you think that USA goals are completely aligned with UA?

Idc, man. Since they're giving to us weaponry and money, I'm fine with that. In fact, typical "Israel case". USA and Israel HAD, have and will have a lot of disagreements in politic. Despite this was never a reason to Israel to reject american help. So you should try better

[Mate2237]

At first when I saw these two topics, I paused and also confused if they are one with different authors because I have not seen or heard that Russia invaded USA. But the link that provided by BADecker is stated clearly that Russia is really preparing for world war. Because other neighbour countries are also preparing to defense themselves if it happens.
Russian Invasion of the U.S. [In Process]
Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[paxmao]

I will say a few words about the "barrage of fire" tactics, which the allied forces of Russia and the LDNR used to break into the fortified areas in Avdiivka. This is an old trick from the times of the First World War, which the Russian Army masters to perfection. To use it successfully, you need good logistics, because you will need to spend a huge amount of artillery shells and multiple launch rocket systems. Russia is now spending about 5,000 tons of artillery shells per day in Ukraine on the use of a "barrage of fire" (not counting high-precision missiles). For each unarmored target in the Donbass, 300-500 shells are spent. After such artillery preparation, assault detachments with the support of armored vehicles go into battle, usually formed according to the national principle (Tuvans, Buryats, Chechens, etc.), which use their native language in radio communications, which provides additional protection against radio interception. If the assault squads meet strong resistance, they move back and artillery again works on the identified positions. Such tactics make it possible to successfully advance without numerical superiority and with minimal losses (but with an increased consumption of artillery shells).

That's why 50 or even 100 HIMARS can't turn the tide of this operation. Russia can concentrate 10-15 divisions of howitzers and MLRS on a small sector of the front, and they plow everything with cheap shells and unguided rockets. And Ukraine can oppose only 1-2 divisions, which, moreover, are forced to hide from drones and high-precision missiles. The success of the operation to liberate Donbass is not a matter of strategy or tactics, it is a matter of logistics and timing.

Nothing new. RF shelling with 60's equipment and "conquering" a land of rubble. There are several things that you got wrong:

- HIMARS is precisely there to fuck up those logistics you describe and with just 4 of them, high value targets have been destroyed. It is clear to anyone that the pace of the offensive has slowed.
- RF can concentrate troops... at the cost of leaving other areas dangerously undefended. There are tiny advances from Ukraine in the South. In themselves they do not mean much, but the fact that there's actually any advance should give you food for thought on how strong the grip on the invaded lands is.

But the biggest caveat is that the tactic is slow and costly. RF cannot maintain and army working at that pace for a long period of time under economic sanctions and certainly will need to convince many of joining an army that has a reputation for not giving a F*k for their soldiers and sending then unprepared and untrained.

Regarding "high precision"... nothing to be shown for that. The technical weaponry exists, but is so limited that makes zero effect. Ukraine has always been ready for air raids and missiles and use the right tactics to minimise the effects of these.

Overall, there is nothing like a "winning strategy" going on at all.

Ukraine still has a whole month to implement its plan for a decisive counterattack on Kherson. Then there will be a referendum, according to the results of which the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions are likely to be reunited with Russia.

Although what am I talking about? Talk about a counterattack on Kherson turned out to be part of an information-psychological operation, in other words, another fake. 

Чи бyлa цe IПCO? Бeзyмoвнo, cьoгoднi вci пyблiчнi кoмeнтapi - цe чacтинa IПCO. Haм пoтpiбнo дeмopaлiзyвaти pociйcькy apмiю. Boни пoвиннi poзyмiти, щo тyт пocтiйнo бyдe тepитopiя вoгню, щo їx тyт бyдyть cпaлювaти. Цe ключoвe.

Welll done! Man, you got them nothing escapes your insight. All is fake, all psi games, nothing is happening. There is no concentration of troops, there will never be an offensive, you are all right and RF will just be there forever. In fact, you can move all your troops out, there is nothing coming so no need to keep them there.

Why do you think the RF troops are there? No need.

[be.open]

Welll done! Man, you got them nothing escapes your insight. All is fake, all psi games, nothing is happening. There is no concentration of troops, there will never be an offensive, you are all right and RF will just be there forever. In fact, you can move all your troops out, there is nothing coming so no need to keep them there.

Why do you think the RF troops are there? No need.

Danke schön.

My insight also did not escape Ukraine's attempt to concentrate a strike force in the north of the country in the Kharkiv direction. The main problem in the preparation of the Ukrainian counterattack is not even the lack of offensive weapons, but the fact that in response to any attempt to concentrate forces, a high-precision Russian missile follows, so the concentration of forces has to be as covert and dispersed as possible. Which in itself is very difficult, because dispersed concentration is an oxymoron, "like a giant shrimp."

[DaRude]

Might want to dial down on "cultural protectionism" when totally dependent on USA and EU.

Yes, this is how it works. I can't see anything illogical in this statement. How does Himars affect culture?

What makes you think that USA goals are completely aligned with UA?

Idc, man. Since they're giving to us weaponry and money, I'm fine with that. In fact, typical "Israel case". USA and Israel HAD, have and will have a lot of disagreements in politic. Despite this was never a reason to Israel to reject american help. So you should try better

But what makes you think that relationship is similar of that with Israel and not like with Kurds? And you really believe that UA can somehow take Crimea back (with Crimean kids that were 12 back then are 20 yrs old now and lived all of their adult lives as RU citizens) without Russia activating 2millioin of it's reservist in addition to current 175k troops? Why wouldn't you care for the end goal? If the outcome is all the same, but the difference is only in loss of life (to both sides) that doesn't bother you at all? And I'll ask again, will you concede that the losses will be senseless if/when RU takes Kharkiv/Odesa/Zaporizhzhia/Dnipro... or any and all UA losses can be justified by claiming that they were actually protecting Poland/Europe/freedom whatever...  from Russian orcs?

[TwitchySeal]

Might want to dial down on "cultural protectionism" when totally dependent on USA and EU.

Yes, this is how it works. I can't see anything illogical in this statement. How does Himars affect culture?

What makes you think that USA goals are completely aligned with UA?

Idc, man. Since they're giving to us weaponry and money, I'm fine with that. In fact, typical "Israel case". USA and Israel HAD, have and will have a lot of disagreements in politic. Despite this was never a reason to Israel to reject american help. So you should try better

But what makes you think that relationship is similar of that with Israel and not like with Kurds? And you really believe that UA can somehow take Crimea back (with Crimean kids that were 12 back then are 20 yrs old now and lived all of their adult lives as RU citizens) without Russia activating 2millioin of it's reservist in addition to current 175k troops? Why wouldn't you care for the end goal? If the outcome is all the same, but the difference is only in loss of life (to both sides) that doesn't bother you at all? And I'll ask again, will you concede that the losses will be senseless if/when RU takes Kharkiv/Odesa/Zaporizhzhia/Dnipro... or any and all UA losses can be justified by claiming that they were actually protecting Poland/Europe/freedom whatever...  from Russian orcs?

When you need weapons to defend your country from a foreign invasion, it really doesn't matter where they come from.  And yeah, obviously they really do think they can take Crimea back.  Remember back when Putin thought it wouldn't even be a war, just a special operation in response to NATO expansion, and even in the West, the question was not if but how many days until the fall of Kiev?  Would they last through the weekend?
 Maybe a week?  Would Zelensky be killed?  That was 6 months ago.  Do you really think things are going according to Putins plan?  They've given up on Kiev, Nato added two more countries, Sanctions are far more aggressive than anticipated, and basically all the effort over the past 30 years to recover from the collapse of the SU has been erased.  Not to mention the ever growing list a military humiliations.  Their flagship being sunk, the trap bridge over the river, and now somehow they blew up an air field in crimea 250km behind the front line.

Of course, you won't believe any of that because you believe what Putin wants you to believe.  But you must understand that's what is believed by many in the west, Ukraine included.

[johhnyUA]

But what makes you think that relationship is similar of that with Israel and not like with Kurds?

I can't remember when USA provide HIMARS or something similar to kurds. So yeah, our case is more close to Israel case then to kurds. USA would not provide HIMARS to us in kurds case 

And yeah, very funny about rf will take something. They're out of armored vechiles for now, and without tanks/ifv/afv you can't siege any big city.

[BADecker]

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When you need weapons to defend your country from a foreign invasion, it really doesn't matter where they come from.  

...

When you need weapons from a foreign country to defend your country from a foreign invasion, you're simply being invaded by the country that is giving you the weapons.

[tvbcof]

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When you need weapons to defend your country from a foreign invasion, it really doesn't matter where they come from.  
...

When you need weapons from a foreign country to defend your country from a foreign invasion, you're simply being invaded by the country that is giving you the weapons.

The 'Western weapons' are nothing more than an excuse to get more Ukroid cannon fodder killed.  Looks a little better to send undesirable races to their death with a non-functional tube strapped to their back than to arm them with a sharpened stick, but clearly the 'leadership' of Ukraine would do that too as long as the conscripts could be made to move in the general direction of the Russian artillery.

[BADecker]

...
When you need weapons to defend your country from a foreign invasion, it really doesn't matter where they come from.  
...

When you need weapons from a foreign country to defend your country from a foreign invasion, you're simply being invaded by the country that is giving you the weapons.

The 'Western weapons' are nothing more than an excuse to get more Ukroid cannon fodder killed.  Looks a little better to send undesirable races to their death with a non-functional tube strapped to their back than to arm them with a sharpened stick, but clearly the 'leadership' of Ukraine would do that too as long as the conscripts could be made to move in the general direction of the Russian artillery.

Zelensky never had as much popularity and infamy (depending on who is looking) as he is getting now. And he isn't slowing down one bit, constantly asking for more money and weapons. Give him enough rope and he will hang himself.

The Ukrainian people are moving out, or over to the Russian, Donbas regions. When Zelensky fails, will the US have something else in the plan to protect their interests over there? Or will they simply 'hand' it all over to Russia?

[johhnyUA]

I think we can call this "Chronicles of Liberation"

Seems that Popasna is fully liberated from material world:



Translation: Head of LNR tells that they may not rebuild Popasna, because it's completely destoryed (around of 96 % buildings destroyed - johhnyUA)

When you need weapons from a foreign country to defend your country from a foreign invasion, you're simply being invaded by the country that is giving you the weapons.

Epic logic. Maybe the best from what I've seen here.
"When you buy a gun from another guy to protect yourself from third guy who want to kill you, means that the guy who sold you gun really killing you!"

[BADecker]

...

When you need weapons from a foreign country to defend your country from a foreign invasion, you're simply being invaded by the country that is giving you the weapons.

Epic logic. Maybe the best from what I've seen here.
"When you buy a gun from another guy to protect yourself from third guy who want to kill you, means that the guy who sold you gun really killing you!"

Ukraine logic.

"When you get a gun and $$$billions from another guy to murder a third guy, means that the guy who gave you the gun and money is hiring you to do a job for him!"

[348Judah]

Currently, the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy have reach out to some of the African countries for help over the ongoing war with Russia, he noted that staying neutral about it wouldn't be of help to the whole situation on ground, he want the intervention of some of the African countries to make impact on Ukraine experience in the ongoing crisis
https://www.thecable.ng/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-seeks-africas-support-says-we-are-similar-in-many-ways/amp

[af_newbie]

...

When you need weapons from a foreign country to defend your country from a foreign invasion, you're simply being invaded by the country that is giving you the weapons.

Epic logic. Maybe the best from what I've seen here.
"When you buy a gun from another guy to protect yourself from third guy who want to kill you, means that the guy who sold you gun really killing you!"

Ukraine logic.

"When you get a gun and $$$billions from another guy to murder a third guy, means that the guy who gave you the gun and money is hiring you to do a job for him!"

More like a gun shop opened a credit account for you, and you can loan/buy whatever weapons you want to defend your home.