Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[be.open]

Do you recognize yourself?

I see that you are not indifferent to me and I even inspire you to create art that corresponds to the level of your mental development. I have to disappoint you, I'm straight.

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[BADecker]

Ukraine's 2nd Largest City Plunged Into Total Darkness As Russia Strikes Key Infrastructure

"The center of Ukraine's second city Kharkiv was plunged into darkness on Sunday evening by an electricity blackout," Reuters has confirmed of the large-scale outage. It's further being reported that some city districts are also without water, creating a severe crisis for residents.

"The cause and extent of the blackout in the northeastern city were not immediately clear. There were also unconfirmed social media reports of blackouts in other places and regions," the report said initially.

However, Ukrainian officials are pointing to stepped up and deliberate Russian attacks on civilian electrical facilities crucial to the city's operations. They are viewing it as punishment for the at this point largely successful Ukrainian military counteroffensive which has regained at least 40 towns and villages to the north and east of Kharkiv.

President Volodymyr Zelensky posted a brief statement to social media along with footage of destroyed infrastructure, denouncing "Deliberate and cynical missile strikes on civilian, critical infrastructure." He stressed they were not "military facilities" that were attacked. "Kharkiv and Donetsk regions were cut off. In Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, Sumy there are partial problems with power supply."

...

Nope, this is a punishment for Ukraine's incessant shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, as a result of which the last reactor was shut down today. Russia was unable to protect the operation of the nuclear power plant and the visit of the IAEA mission did not help either. Now Ukrainians should stock up on patience and gasoline generators, rocket attacks on Ukrainian thermal power plants will be regular.

Yes, of course. There is such a thing as  'pay them back'. But this is the beginnings of the real war.

Russia considers Ukraine to be part of their friendly group. The little 'military playing' that they have done with the Ukraine so far, hasn't been about destruction of Ukraine. It has been about requesting Ukraine to stop their fighting and be family. It has also been about giving the Ukrainian people time to get out, or to decide to stay no matter what.

As Zelensky decides to continue the fight beyond what Russia is willing to put up with, it's now the start time where Russia starts to fight. AND... the fight isn't really against Zelensky/Ukraine. Rather, it is a war against the US's more or less silent usurping of the whole Ukraine government. The Ukrainian people are simply in the way.

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/332003-2022-09-12-a-developing-story-monday-update.htm

https://www.brighteon.com/9d2517c9-d88c-4df7-94cc-76e9712af121

[be.open]

Yes, of course. There is such a thing as  'pay them back'. But this is the beginnings of the real war.

Ordinary symmetrical measures.

Russia considers Ukraine to be part of their friendly group. The little 'military playing' that they have done with the Ukraine so far, hasn't been about destruction of Ukraine. It has been about requesting Ukraine to stop their fighting and be family. It has also been about giving the Ukrainian people time to get out, or to decide to stay no matter what.

Ukraine for Russia is like a capricious infantile spoiled child. To whom everything was allowed for too long, and in 31 years he grew into a moral freak, who believes that everyone around him owes something simply because. Take a look - it's quite typical.

You don't understand the major point. In fact, Europe owes Ukrainians all the things and without any conditions.

Now it's time to give the little asshole a good belt on his ass. For his own good, purely for educational purposes. If you have to bomb with FAB-500 high-explosive bombs for this, as in Azovstal or near Kherson - well. It looks like the case is too neglected and the little asshole does not understand other methods.

[Waradlain]

You don't understand the major point. In fact, Europe owes Ukrainians all the things and without any conditions.

Now it's time to give the little asshole a good belt on his ass. For his own good, purely for educational purposes. If you have to bomb with FAB-500 high-explosive bombs for this, as in Azovstal or near Kherson - well. It looks like the case is too neglected and the little asshole does not understand other methods.

Tы-тo кyдa лeзeшь, пcинa eбaнaя?

[TwitchySeal]

Ukraine's 2nd Largest City Plunged Into Total Darkness As Russia Strikes Key Infrastructure[/b]

"The center of Ukraine's second city Kharkiv was plunged into darkness on Sunday evening by an electricity blackout," Reuters has confirmed of the large-scale outage. It's further being reported that some city districts are also without water, creating a severe crisis for residents.

"The cause and extent of the blackout in the northeastern city were not immediately clear. There were also unconfirmed social media reports of blackouts in other places and regions," the report said initially.

However, Ukrainian officials are pointing to stepped up and deliberate Russian attacks on civilian electrical facilities crucial to the city's operations. They are viewing it as punishment for the at this point largely successful Ukrainian military counteroffensive which has regained at least 40 towns and villages to the north and east of Kharkiv.

President Volodymyr Zelensky posted a brief statement to social media along with footage of destroyed infrastructure, denouncing "Deliberate and cynical missile strikes on civilian, critical infrastructure." He stressed they were not "military facilities" that were attacked. "Kharkiv and Donetsk regions were cut off. In Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, Sumy there are partial problems with power supply."

...

Nope, this is a punishment for Ukraine's incessant shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, as a result of which the last reactor was shut down today. Russia was unable to protect the operation of the nuclear power plant and the visit of the IAEA mission did not help either. Now Ukrainians should stock up on patience and gasoline generators, rocket attacks on Ukrainian thermal power plants will be regular.

Remember when the Russians dug holes in the ground to sleep in at Chernobyl until the Battle of Kiev was lost and they had to retreat?

Similar situation here.

[BADecker]

Ukraine's 2nd Largest City Plunged Into Total Darkness As Russia Strikes Key Infrastructure[/b]

"The center of Ukraine's second city Kharkiv was plunged into darkness on Sunday evening by an electricity blackout," Reuters has confirmed of the large-scale outage. It's further being reported that some city districts are also without water, creating a severe crisis for residents.

"The cause and extent of the blackout in the northeastern city were not immediately clear. There were also unconfirmed social media reports of blackouts in other places and regions," the report said initially.

However, Ukrainian officials are pointing to stepped up and deliberate Russian attacks on civilian electrical facilities crucial to the city's operations. They are viewing it as punishment for the at this point largely successful Ukrainian military counteroffensive which has regained at least 40 towns and villages to the north and east of Kharkiv.

President Volodymyr Zelensky posted a brief statement to social media along with footage of destroyed infrastructure, denouncing "Deliberate and cynical missile strikes on civilian, critical infrastructure." He stressed they were not "military facilities" that were attacked. "Kharkiv and Donetsk regions were cut off. In Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, Sumy there are partial problems with power supply."

...

Nope, this is a punishment for Ukraine's incessant shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, as a result of which the last reactor was shut down today. Russia was unable to protect the operation of the nuclear power plant and the visit of the IAEA mission did not help either. Now Ukrainians should stock up on patience and gasoline generators, rocket attacks on Ukrainian thermal power plants will be regular.

Remember when the Russians dug holes in the ground to sleep in at Chernobyl until the Battle of Kiev was lost and they had to retreat?

Similar situation here.

Are you in Europe? It was fun knowing you a little. And maybe a little longer if you are in the States.

[LTU_btc]

Meanwhile Azerbaijan attacked Armenia after provocations from Armenian side. At least, this is what Azerbaijan side report. According CSTO (Collective Security Treaty Organization) attack against Armenia means attack all alliance countries (Russia, Belarus, Kazkahstan, Kyrgyztan and Tajikistan) Does it means that Russia will get involved there too? After such successful ''special operation'' open another front? Interesting...
https://www.intellinews.com/major-clashes-break-out-on-azerbaijani-armenian-border-256282/?source=armenia
https://ru.euronews.com/2022/09/12/armenia-azerbaijan-artillery

Nope, this is a punishment for Ukraine's incessant shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, as a result of which the last reactor was shut down today. Russia was unable to protect the operation of the nuclear power plant and the visit of the IAEA mission did not help either. Now Ukrainians should stock up on patience and gasoline generators, rocket attacks on Ukrainian thermal power plants will be regular.

Nope, it's desperate actions of Russia to hit critical infrastructure after they lost several important cities and thousands of km2 that they were fighting for for several months.
BTW, on Sunday it was planned to held concert of Oleg Gazmanov in Izum:
https://culturemeter.od.ua/gazmanov-peredumal-vystupat-v-izjume-s-koncertom-rossija-zdes-navsegda-172199/
Interesting, why it didn't happened...

[paxmao]

There is something going on, despite the lack of official coverage my take is that we will see filtrations along the next week, nothing clear, always from intelligence sources that may as well be disinforming. This brings another question: What happens if Putin is demoted? Or, to make it more clear, who the f*ck is now in changer of the "red button" and are they any more trustworthy than Adolf Putin?

Anyone who managed to stay around Putin after 20+ years of his paranoid regime must be as much or more of a psychopath than himself. But I don't think he'll get demoted by his comrades. They all have a lot to lose if the regime falls apart and not much to gain.

Like any leader in history, he is only as good as the loyalty that inspires. In his case, said loyalty is based on fear and on corruption and mafia. If the psychos that support Adolf Putin no longer get what they want ...

Anyway, our friend be.open has now the occasion to learn what is actually a full collapse of a front. See, what happened in Popasna is not, what is happening in Kharkiv Oblast is. Do you notice the difference in speed and results? Throw a missile to that.

[suchmoon]

it's now the start time where Russia starts to fight

Well, they started by gloriously running eastward, so if the whole fight is like that from now on - that's great for everyone involved.

[af_newbie]

it's now the start time where Russia starts to fight

Well, they started by gloriously running eastward, so if the whole fight is like that from now on - that's great for everyone involved.

Once Kherson falls, they will strategically withdraw to Crimea and Kuban.

They will claim that the original plan was to protect Russia from Ukrainian Nazis.

All Russian citizens who are in Ukraine will be eliminated, jailed or deported.

[1miau]

The Russians continue to impress me.  I'm not a student of military history, but I can see how Russia is a big country even after having gone up against various 'super-powers' through history.  Not to mention the disastrous effects of communism.

Looks like Russia is burning out the NATO and U.S. stockpiles of (highly overpriced) weapons for use world-wide with low loses (and modest territorial and resource gains.)  Time is certainly on their side as the West collapses in Talmudic directed eco-faggot apocalypse and they end up with all the energy.  Setting the defense line at LPR and DPR is quite smart since the local populations are largely self-defensive and when attacked, create a lot of near-by high value target groupings.  Not to mention a moral imperative to decimate said targets at will.

...

Don‘t you think, that‘s a bit too apocalyptic? If the war ends, Ukraine will join the Nato and earn support payments to rebuild its economy due to the fact, that the EU is depending on ukrainian goods such as wheat and oil.

Well, tvbcof is a brainwashed Kremlin troll so we can't expect anything reasonable from him except hot air. Unfortunately, we can't even use such hot air for heating.  

For people like tvbcof, a Russian retreat is a Russian victory because [insert whatever stupid reason here].
Similar how Russia's war against Ukraine is failing, so are the Russian propagandists and trolls.  
We can watch them collide with reality in real time.  

[DaRude]

I want to say that raising the flag over Vysokopolye and taking three more villages (by the way, which ones?) is too thin a result for a week of suicidal attacks on an open field as part of a counteroffensive that has been prepared since the beginning of summer.

LOL that's really weak sauce for someone who was boasting about capturing some villages in Donbas, didn't get any new talking points?

The "open field" is just a tiny part of the counteroffensive. All those bavovna also mean something. The disappearing of bridges and daily attacks on ferries basically makes the invaders surrounded. Ukrainians don't need to go guns blazing into Kherson, they can slowly squeeze them until the inevitable "good will gesture". Or if the brilliant Russian military strategists decide to send more reinforcements cannon fodder - that can work out well for Ukrainians too, meaning less pressure elsewhere.

Twist it as you want, but the momentum is clearly shifting. Capture Kyiv in 3 days -> capture some villages in Donbas -> try to hold on to some villages in Donbas -> ah shit, lost some villages near Kherson, no big deal -> next I suppose will be a retreat from Kherson and some desperate attempt to reinforce the land corridor through Melitopol because that's being himarsed daily too.

When their 98th and 45th SF brigades are wiped out south of Vysokopillya, they will 'strategically withdraw' from Kherson to 'secure' the land bridge to Crimea.

The talking heads on RTV (and be.open) will be saying that it is all according to Putin's master plan to defend Russian speakers in Donbas.

Kherson front will be forgotten, just like the fronts on Kyiv and Sumy.

The only way to deal with the occupiers and their collaborators is to physically eliminate them.

There is no other way.

So partial population of Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donetsk and everyone in Luhansk and Crimea?

Just the population of Crimea is 2,416,856. So how many millions do you want to physically eliminate exactly? Guessing priority for you would be eliminating the elderly as they were born in USSR and the most prone to collaborate? All of the kids too, or you think up to certain age there's still a chance to reeducate them in the camps?

Edit:
What about sympathizers, do you feel the need to physically eliminate them too?

around 2 000 people have gathered at Augustusplatz in Leipzig city centre to begin what has been proclaimed as a “hot autumn” to protest.
...
The AfD further called on the government to stop the sanctions war, which is leading to a sharp increase in prices.
...
Demonstrators demanded the “immediate capping of electricity prices” and for officials to secure direct contracts with gas suppliers at low prices, and further called for the resignation of the government and military neutrality.

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/wave-of-protests-in-europe-over-high-cost-of-living-energy-prices/ar-AA11vR61

False equivalence.

Demonstrators in Leipzig do not bomb Berlin, rape and plunder East Germany or shoot and kill civilians.

Right now, all pro-Russian material support in Ukraine is equivalent to armed aggression as it causes the deaths of defenders
and must be met with lethal force.

BTW, gas prices are dropping due to falling oil prices because of lower demand despite the supply shock created by Russia.

Cheap attempt at a straw man, now care to address the question? Do you consider people who get RU passports, work for and receive salaries and pensions in RUB as collaborators? What about people that vote to secede from UA (like Crimea)? Care to put a number, roughly how many collaborators there are that you feel should be physically eliminated? And the part about the children of collaborators, what do you want to do with them?

It is simple, if they have Ukrainian citizenship, they can stay in Ukraine. If they provided material support to the Russian army they broke Ukrainian law and will probably be prosecuted. Unless there will be amnesty for them. They will be free to leave the territory of Ukraine
and give up their citizenship, if they so desire.

All Russians without Ukrainian papers are tourists in Ukraine and will be deported.

There was no legal referendum in Crimea or Donbas/Luhansk. Read the constitution of Ukraine.

Dual citizenship is technically not allowed in Ukraine. So I am not sure how the Ukrainian government will treat all the people who
accepted Russian citizenship after Feb. 2014. Maybe they will consider them as Russian citizens without Ukrainian visas.

People who help organize illegal, pro-Russian 'government' on the territory of Ukraine should be eliminated, one way or another.

SBU identifies three collaborators in Luhansk Oblast
...
All three individuals could face up to 10 years in prison should they be apprehended by Ukrainian law enforcement, put on trial, and be found guilty.

https://news.yahoo.com/sbu-identifies-three-collaborators-luhansk-192500882.html

A total of 651 collaboration and treason cases had been opened against law enforcement officials, he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62202078

SBU nabs artillery spotter who gave Russians coordinates of schools for “intimidating strikes”
...
Russian intelligence recruited him immediately after Russia’s full-scale invasion; he faces up to 12 years jail

https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/08/27/sbu-nabs-artillery-spotter-who-gave-russians-coordinates-of-schools-for-intimidating-strikes/

Court sentences Russian collaborator to 16 years in jail.

He has given Russia information on the deployment of Ukrainian troops and the locations of infrastructure facilities in Chernihiv and Cherhnivtsi oblasts, the Prosecutor General's Office said.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1566739269091213312

Offenders face up to 15 years in prison for collaborating with Russian forces, making public denials about Russian aggression or supporting Moscow. Anyone whose actions result in deaths could face life in prison.
...
Some businessmen, civic and state officials and members of the military are among those who have gone over to the Russian side, and Ukraine’s State Bureau of Investigations said more than 200 criminal cases on collaboration have been opened. Zelenskyy has even stripped two SBU generals of their rank, accusing them of treason.

A “registry of collaborators” is being compiled and will be released to the public, said Oleksiy Danilov, head of Ukraine’s Security Council. He refused to say how many people were targeted nationwide.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-cracks-traitors-helping-russian-troops-84397927

Either you have different definition of collaborators from UA government and Zelensky, or you have a lot of people that you'll be physically eliminating. Are you planning on personally taking the part in all of the murdering?

Cheap attempt at a straw man, now care to address the question? Do you consider people who get RU passports, work for and receive salaries and pensions in RUB as collaborators? What about people that vote to secede from UA (like Crimea)? Care to put a number, roughly how many collaborators there are that you feel should be physically eliminated? And the part about the children of collaborators, what do you want to do with them?

You're reaching desperately, up to and including accusing someone else of "straw man" while yourself providing only dramatized straw man arguments.

Look up collaborator in a dictionary. It tends to be defined as a person who is part of the enemy government or military, i.e. basically a traitor. Probably a legitimate military target in any case, so killing them during war is fair game. But that's not about regular citizens who may or may not use rubles. Or children.

You really need to either man up and show exactly which argument in my replies to af_newbie comment about physically eliminating collaborators is a "straw man" argument, or just quietly stop using long words you don't know the meaning of.

[suchmoon]

You really need to either man up and show exactly which argument in my replies to af_newbie comment about physically eliminating collaborators is a "straw man" argument, or just quietly stop using long words you don't know the meaning of.

Your concern-trolling about people using rubles and about children is an example of such strawmanning (no one suggested killing children or people using rubles) and I did mention that in my post... perhaps try some reading before going all blue.

[tvbcof]

...

Well, tvbcof is a brainwashed Kremlin troll so we can't expect anything reasonable from him except hot air. Unfortunately, we can't even use such hot air for heating.  

For people like tvbcof, a Russian retreat is a Russian victory because [insert whatever stupid reason here].
Similar how Russia's war against Ukraine is failing, so are the Russian propagandists and trolls.  
We can watch them collide with reality in real time.  

I'm just saying that the Russians (and their allies from the post 2014 civil war) have set themselves up pretty nicely.  I think that  this guy is dead-on in that this is a logistics war now for a while.  Time is even more on the side of the Russians now.

Part of the reason for Ukrainian logistics problems is that every Ukroid who touches the material steals and sells a bunch of it.  It's just their nature I guess.  Lots of it gets sold to the Russians or their allies in fact.  A long cold winter will change the desire to sell Western 'aid' into a necessity.

I predicted that Ziocon hopes for bleeding the Russians in a new Vietnam were likely to fail because Putin is to smart to get roped into such a thing.  That's why I was predicting from the get-go that the territorial gains would be mild, and there was probably not even much of a desire for most of the parts of former Ukraine.  They'd park mostly in places where the locals want them around.  I made these predictions while professionals like Ritter were seemingly quite convinced that Russia would sweep most of the country in short order.

I predict that after the winter with the 'liberated' people kicking back and enjoying cars, heat, food, etc while those under international NaZiocon control freeze and starve, there will be even more inclination for the local populations to align with the East.  Might spread like a cancer and add even more misery to the list of Ukroid woes.  We'll see.

[DaRude]

If the war ends, Ukraine will join the Nato and earn support payments to rebuild its economy due to the fact, that the EU is depending on ukrainian goods such as wheat and oil.

Isnt NATO representatives already claimed that Ukraine is not ready for joining NATO, as Ukraine does not fully meet European standards yet? I am a bit far from Ukraine joining NATO discussion, but last thing I remembered, was there several months ago there was a meeting of NATO countries and it seems they are not waiting for Ukraine in their union. As to wheat and oil - does Ukraine support Europe that much, that Europe would give billions to rebuild destroyed economy? Europe is not short of wheat deliveries from Ukraine, but so far there is no such huge shortage and wheat crisis in Europe, that will make people crazy.

There is no such thing as standards for a country to join NATO. Ive been to Albania and Macedonia many times, these are great countries, but if we consider the reasons for accepting them into NATO, it has nothing to do with thefact that they suddenly began to meet some standards. This is a purely political decision. If there is a decision your accepted, no decision your not. If such a decision is made, Angola will be in NATO within a month.
When the war ends, Ukraine should offer NATO to join Ukraine. Insisting on some reforms within NATO, for example, throwing the fuck out Hungary would be definitely one of them. Germany doesn't have shit so need to get rid of it too.

>does Ukraine support Europe that much
You don't understand the major point. In fact, Europe owes Ukrainians all the things and without any conditions. Because democratic societies, unlike authoritarian ones, depend on their own rhetoric. If they said "Never again", they should prove it. If they said that democracy and values are important, they should prove it. Otherwise, the line between Putin's rubbish and the proud statements of the West is blurred.

Germany committed €3,1B the 3rd after US and UK and you want to kick it out of NATO Ever heard the saying, don’t bite the hand that feeds you, and careful what you wish for? I can't think of a worse outcome for EU and UA if Germany decides to leave NATO this winter, it would probably be Putin's wet dream too.

Democratic societies, unlike authoritarian ones, depend on their own rhetoric?

Ohh naïve child, I take it you don't really follow world geopolitics much, or studied world history? I really don't have the courage to burst your bubble, but trust me you're just setting yourself up to be disappointed.

Macron Says NATO Is Experiencing ‘Brain Death’ Because of Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/world/europe/macron-nato-brain-death.html

Trump also said he could see France “breaking off” from the Western military alliance.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/trump-says-macrons-comments-on-nato-were-very-disrespectful.html

Trump says 'America is going to hell', alludes to 2024 run for presidency at PA rally

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-america-is-going-to-hell-alludes-to-2024-run-for-presidency-at-pa-rally/ar-AA11r7nZ

How much do you think EU is watching US's midterm elections that'll happen in November? And what happens if/when? Biden's party (democrats) loose the congress to republicans (Trump's party) as projected?

The European Union and United States have ramped up buying key industrial metals from Russia, data showed, despite logistical problems spurred by the war in Ukraine and tough talk about starving Moscow of foreign exchange revenue
...
EU and U.S. imports of Russia's main base metal products aluminium and nickel during March-June increased by as much as 70%, official trade data compiled by Reuters from the United Nations Comtrade database show.
The total value of EU and U.S. imports of the two metals from March to June were $1.98 billion, the data showed.
...
"We know from commodity traders it's mainly a question of the price. It's not so much about some politician not wanting you to buy, but is there a deal here."
...
During the four months following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the EU was the biggest importer of unwrought aluminium from Russia, pulling in an average of 78,207 tonnes a month in March-June, 13% more than the same period last year.
...
U.S. monthly imports of Russian aluminium averaged 23,049 tonnes in March-June, up 21% from the same period last year.
...
Nickel imports from Russia by the top three destinations in March-June rose 17% year-on-year.
The United States saw the biggest gains, surging 70% compared to last year, while EU shipments gained 22%.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/exclusive-eu-us-step-up-russian-aluminium-nickel-imports-since-ukraine-war-2022-09-06/



Edit: From my own curiosity

The pay of Wagner private military contractors (PMCs), who are usually aged between 35 and 55, is estimated to be between 80,000 ($1087) and 250,000 ($3397) Russian rubles a month. One source also stated the pay was as high as 300,000 ($4077).

https://special-ops.org/wagner-group-notorious-private-military-company/

At average of $2k/month for 6months that's $12k per contractor. So just that money from EU and US $1,98B, would get Wagner 165.000 contractors for 6months.

[tvbcof]

...
Edit: From my own curiosity

The pay of Wagner private military contractors (PMCs), who are usually aged between 35 and 55, is estimated to be between 80,000 ($1087) and 250,000 ($3397) Russian rubles a month. One source also stated the pay was as high as 300,000 ($4077).

https://special-ops.org/wagner-group-notorious-private-military-company/

At average of $2k/month for 6months that's $12k per contractor. So just that money from EU and US $1,98B, would get Wagner 165.000 contractors for 6months.

I do kind of wonder how fast Wagner, or any other PMC really, could ramp up (and maintain something close to their 'normal' effectiveness.)  I've heard that they get some of their personnel from prison, but I have to believe that the pool of suitable candidates from that demographic would be exhausted pretty quickly.

Another random thing I never got around to mentioning is that a few weeks or a month ago or something, the CEO of Wagner is said to have been nearly killed in an attack that is said to have been the work of the British SAF.  The interesting thing about this is that I doubt that very many of the Wagner people are very nice and forgiving, and that would certainly include the CEO.  Wagner is, as best I can tell, a private for-profit business entity.  It would be quite believable that misfortune which befell Great Brittan, or more generally the interests of the crown, in the form of an attack it could be simply revenge on the part of a privateer and had nothing to do with the Kremlin proper.

[TwitchySeal]

...
Edit: From my own curiosity

The pay of Wagner private military contractors (PMCs), who are usually aged between 35 and 55, is estimated to be between 80,000 ($1087) and 250,000 ($3397) Russian rubles a month. One source also stated the pay was as high as 300,000 ($4077).

https://special-ops.org/wagner-group-notorious-private-military-company/

At average of $2k/month for 6months that's $12k per contractor. So just that money from EU and US $1,98B, would get Wagner 165.000 contractors for 6months.

I do kind of wonder how fast Wagner, or any other PMC really, could ramp up (and maintain something close to their 'normal' effectiveness.)  I've heard that they get some of their personnel from prison, but I have to believe that the pool of suitable candidates from that demographic would be exhausted pretty quickly.

Another random thing I never got around to mentioning is that a few weeks or a month ago or something, the CEO of Wagner is said to have been nearly killed in an attack that is said to have been the work of the British SAF.  The interesting thing about this is that I doubt that very many of the Wagner people are very nice and forgiving, and that would certainly include the CEO.  Wagner is, as best I can tell, a private for-profit business entity.  It would be quite believable that misfortune which befell Great Brittan, or more generally the interests of the crown, in the form of an attack it could be simply revenge on the part of a privateer and had nothing to do with the Kremlin proper.

So do the Putin fan boys consider the Wagner group the good kind of Nazis?  How do you rationalize invading Ukraine bc "Nazis" while funding Nazis to fight for you.

Similar dissonance as the hate for Hitler while worshipping Stalin.

[tvbcof]

I do kind of wonder how fast Wagner, or any other PMC really, could ramp up (and maintain something close to their 'normal' effectiveness.)  I've heard that they get some of their personnel from prison, but I have to believe that the pool of suitable candidates from that demographic would be exhausted pretty quickly.

Another random thing I never got around to mentioning is that a few weeks or a month ago or something, the CEO of Wagner is said to have been nearly killed in an attack that is said to have been the work of the British SAF.  The interesting thing about this is that I doubt that very many of the Wagner people are very nice and forgiving, and that would certainly include the CEO.  Wagner is, as best I can tell, a private for-profit business entity.  It would be quite believable that misfortune which befell Great Brittan, or more generally the interests of the crown, in the form of an attack it could be simply revenge on the part of a privateer and had nothing to do with the Kremlin proper.

So do the Putin fan boys consider the Wagner group the good kind of Nazis?  How do you rationalize invading Ukraine bc "Nazis" while funding Nazis to fight for you.

Similar dissonance as the hate for Hitler while worshipping Stalin.

You have the same annoying defect as most 'libs', including most of my friends and family.  That is, reading/hearing something I didn't write/say.  I know it's a handy crutch for people who have no other way forward, but it's not a good look.  But I guess you long ago abandoned any pretense of intellectual rigor, honesty, self respect, etc, so why not, eh?  Fools most of the mouth breathers here on this thread.

I'm not a big fan of Wagner PMC and I've been critical of Russia using them.  That doesn't mean I don't consider them effective of course, but that's a different thing entirely.

[Agbe]

I heard from radio news this morning that, Russia soldiers are retrieving (running back) from Ukrainian soldiers. As for me, I thought that the war is over because the hit has been drastically reduce to some extent. I don't know why this war is still on. I believe the war will not extend go far again. What I mean is that, the war will not cause world war 3 again because some people were saying that the war would caused world war which would have involved other world powers and minor countries to support themselves. What do you really think that will stop this fight? I am really tired of hearing these two countries fight. I believed Russia is the side that is still prolonging the war. Although, I do not know who is disobeying the rules to stop the war.

[af_newbie]

I heard from radio news this morning that, Russia soldiers are retrieving (running back) from Ukrainian soldiers. As for me, I thought that the war is over because the hit has been drastically reduce to some extent. I don't know why this war is still on. I believe the war will not extend go far again. What I mean is that, the war will not cause world war 3 again because some people were saying that the war would caused world war which would have involved other world powers and minor countries to support themselves. What do you really think that will stop this fight? I am really tired of hearing these two countries fight. I believed Russia is the side that is still prolonging the war. Although, I do not know who is disobeying the rules to stop the war.

This war is far from over.

Ukrainians have to complete the breakout in the Kherson front and collapse the Luhansk front.

Landbridge and Crimea have to be cleaned up to eliminate Russian citizens and their collaborators.

Most will be decided this winter.