[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[eiskalt]

so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

What assures you that this didn´t already happen to bitcoin or any other coin?
 
Here it is about theft of peoples property and if the only tool you have left to discourage theft is a hardfork, than it is the right thing to do. Yes, it is experimental but at some point it has to be done by someone anyway.

No.
The answer is not to protect broken systems.
The answer is to create better systems that can't be broken.
If people have not learned NOT to trust centralized things like Mintpal and Mtgox.. here is another lesson for you.
Everyone else take note.
You have money on Poloniex? Bittrex? Bter? anywhere else centralized? This can happen to you.

Nothing is broken, when you roll back a fraudulent transaction by hardforking. The system works, trust will be restored. It is not a handicap to hardfork, it is an advantage.

The more I think about it, the clearer I can see, that this dogma of "never-roll-back-a-transaction,-even-if-it-is-fraudulent,-because-you-must-protect-the-integrity-of-the-blockchain" was invented by the very same scammers that committed all these thefts.

[pnosker]

They said the fork is going to happen and that's probably the best course of action for the coin. My concern is that in the rush to get the fork done there will not be sufficient communications from the dev team and key stakeholders. I run several public VRC nodes with lots of connections. What can I be doing to make sure the fork is successful? Should I shut my nodes down now or leave them running? Do I just need to download/compile/restart when the new code becomes available? Is there anything else I can do to help the network converge onto the correct chain? I hope this doesn't turn into a DRK style fork where the key people think everything is fine but everyone else is seeing random forks all over the place. Some clear communication from the key people would be great, I'm ready to help--just let me know how.

Send me an email, pnosker@vericoin.info. You will need to reclone/compile.

[Dadams]

so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

What assures you that this didn´t already happen to bitcoin or any other coin?
 
Here it is about theft of peoples property and if the only tool you have left to discourage theft is a hardfork, than it is the right thing to do. Yes, it is experimental but at some point it has to be done by someone anyway.

No.
The answer is not to protect broken systems.
The answer is to create better systems that can't be broken.
If people have not learned NOT to trust centralized things like Mintpal and Mtgox.. here is another lesson for you.
Everyone else take note.
You have money on Poloniex? Bittrex? Bter? anywhere else centralized? This can happen to you.

Nothing is broken, when you roll back a fraudulent transaction by hardforking. The system works, trust will be restored. It is not a handicap to hardfork, it is an advantage.

The more I think about it, the clearer I can see, that this dogma of "never-roll-back-a-transaction,-even-if-it-is-fraudulent,-because-you-must-protect-the-integrity-of-the-blockchain" was invented by the very same scammers that committed all these thefts.

Nonsense.
If fraud CAN happen it is broken.
If the whole system can come crashing down because of one fraudulent transaction then it is very broken.
Why do you think Bitcoin is worth so much more than anything else?  Because it has survived stuff like this and worse.

If you need a rollback then the system doesn't work.
If there is a rollback then there is no trust.
What a rollback shows is that it doesn't work and can't be trusted... it needs to be fixed.
A broken system.
If Mintpal got stolen all its Bitcoin do you think there would be a rollback to protect daytraders?
Ask yourself why not.
What is the difference here?

The only answer here is to move to decentralization.
Mintpal failed. Mtgox failed. Central things will always fail at some point.

[pb2014]

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

No. When you get the money from the rollback then you pay the guy who sold you the gold. Unless you want a broken knee cap.

[buy4crypto]

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

Because it is an easy target... if you own 4.5 million coins. Or, in the immortal words of Gordon Gekko, because "it can be done, damnit!". A 51% attack is a guaranteed success. The Black Hand owns 4.5 million VRC.

Quite simple, really.

FUD FUD FUD

Wonder what you are doing here, mad about thieves not getting paid huh? I wonder how many thieves we pissed off today, must have been a big team, Seems like all of blackcoins finest community members have shown up here today, coincidence I am sure! There community is known for having such nice people involved!

[Dadams]

They said the fork is going to happen and that's probably the best course of action for the coin. My concern is that in the rush to get the fork done there will not be sufficient communications from the dev team and key stakeholders. I run several public VRC nodes with lots of connections. What can I be doing to make sure the fork is successful? Should I shut my nodes down now or leave them running? Do I just need to download/compile/restart when the new code becomes available? Is there anything else I can do to help the network converge onto the correct chain? I hope this doesn't turn into a DRK style fork where the key people think everything is fine but everyone else is seeing random forks all over the place. Some clear communication from the key people would be great, I'm ready to help--just let me know how.

Send me an email, pnosker@vericoin.info. You will need to reclone/compile.

All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.

[eiskalt]

so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

What assures you that this didn´t already happen to bitcoin or any other coin?
 
Here it is about theft of peoples property and if the only tool you have left to discourage theft is a hardfork, than it is the right thing to do. Yes, it is experimental but at some point it has to be done by someone anyway.

No.
The answer is not to protect broken systems.
The answer is to create better systems that can't be broken.
If people have not learned NOT to trust centralized things like Mintpal and Mtgox.. here is another lesson for you.
Everyone else take note.
You have money on Poloniex? Bittrex? Bter? anywhere else centralized? This can happen to you.

Nothing is broken, when you roll back a fraudulent transaction by hardforking. The system works, trust will be restored. It is not a handicap to hardfork, it is an advantage.

The more I think about it, the clearer I can see, that this dogma of "never-roll-back-a-transaction,-even-if-it-is-fraudulent,-because-you-must-protect-the-integrity-of-the-blockchain" was invented by the very same scammers that committed all these thefts.

Nonsense.
If fraud CAN happen it is broken.
If the whole system can come crashing down because of one fraudulent transaction then it is broken.
Why do you think Bitcoin is worth so much more than anything else?  Because it has survived stuff like this and worse.

If you need a rollback then the system doesn't work.
If there is a rollback then there is no trust.
What a rollback shows is that it doesn't work and can't be trusted... it needs to be fixed.
A broken system.
If Mintpal got stolen all its Bitcoin do you think there would be a rollback to protect daytraders?
Ask yourself why not.
What is the difference here?

The only answer here is to move to decentralization.
Mintpal failed. Mtgox failed. Central things will always fail at some point.

So Bitcoin is broken a hundred times, you should sell them all.

By the way, the exchange system is decentralized. You seem to have a different definition of central and decentral as everyone else here has.

And you are legitimizing theft, as all hardcore anarchists do. Theft is a crime which cannot be allowed in a civil society.

[nonny12]

[buy4crypto]

All I need to know is the best devs in crypto are here working on a greater issue than vericoin. It stepped up to help protect 2 million in theft by making an unpopular descision for some, popular for others. As you see, the dev's didn't put out a new wallet in a rush, they are working IMO to fix the issue, like the VERICOIN devs do, why? because they are quality.

Ask yourself, if your other alts had this happen, what would the dev response have been?

Good chance you would be losing your coins to a thief.

I feel safe as ever with VERICOIN, exchanges on the other hand, I will be much more skeptical of.

[gustav]

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

 because we are not told the full story

[loges]

They said the fork is going to happen and that's probably the best course of action for the coin. My concern is that in the rush to get the fork done there will not be sufficient communications from the dev team and key stakeholders. I run several public VRC nodes with lots of connections. What can I be doing to make sure the fork is successful? Should I shut my nodes down now or leave them running? Do I just need to download/compile/restart when the new code becomes available? Is there anything else I can do to help the network converge onto the correct chain? I hope this doesn't turn into a DRK style fork where the key people think everything is fine but everyone else is seeing random forks all over the place. Some clear communication from the key people would be great, I'm ready to help--just let me know how.

Send me an email, pnosker@vericoin.info. You will need to reclone/compile.

All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.

Finally someone said this.

[kd5zgl]

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

No. When you get the money from the rollback then you pay the guy who sold you the gold. Unless you want a broken knee cap.

If I'm honest, yes. If I'm Gordon Gekko, no. You see, I've had the gold shipped to a drop box under a false name. My point is this: there is no way to remove the intrinsic value of the gold. That's hard-coded into its atoms. In my view, a big part of the intrinsic value of cryptocurrency is the finality of the transaction, even when someone has made a mistake. Honest people will always try to do the right thing. Dishonest people, not so much.

Also, moving forward, and this applies to *every* coin: Who decides when to roll the chain back? The Chairman of the Federal Reserve of (fill_In_the_blank)coin?

[tigerwood0432]

All I need to know is the best devs in crypto are here working on a greater issue than vericoin. It stepped up to help protect 2 million in theft by making an unpopular descision for some, popular for others. As you see, the dev's didn't put out a new wallet in a rush, they are working IMO to fix the issue, like the VERICOIN devs do, why? because they are quality.

Ask yourself, if your other alts had this happen, what would the dev response have been?

Good chance you would be losing your coins to a thief.

I feel safe as ever with VERICOIN, exchanges on the other hand, I will be much more skeptical of.

+1 i have more confidence in VRC than ever now . NOT any BOOBS-COIN dev  will have the courage to do it . Great decision patrick.

[Dadams]

So Bitcoin is broken a hundred times, you should sell them all.

By the way, the exchange system is decentralized. You seem to have a different definition of central and decentral as everyone else here has.

And you are legitimizing theft, as all hardcore anarchists do. Theft is a crime which cannot be allowed in a civil society.

Centralized = Mintpal in this scenario. A central agency, a single point of failure trusted with a large amount of coin.
Decentralized = peer to peer trading.

Simple.

By trying to erase the theft you are protecting the system that makes thieving like this possible.
Is this the long term solution? Everytime there is a theft roll it back?
How many roll backs? Who decides? How the hell do we ever use this for a currency if thats gonna be the case?

If you roll back you make this happening again way more likely.
You make it inevitable. Making the next rollback inevitable.
By not rolling back you force to find another solution. This way we move forward. Not backward.

[Yuzu]

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

 because we are not told the full story

Ding, ding, ding!  Give that man a cookie!

[YoyodyneSystems]

It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.

If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.

[eiskalt]

They said the fork is going to happen and that's probably the best course of action for the coin. My concern is that in the rush to get the fork done there will not be sufficient communications from the dev team and key stakeholders. I run several public VRC nodes with lots of connections. What can I be doing to make sure the fork is successful? Should I shut my nodes down now or leave them running? Do I just need to download/compile/restart when the new code becomes available? Is there anything else I can do to help the network converge onto the correct chain? I hope this doesn't turn into a DRK style fork where the key people think everything is fine but everyone else is seeing random forks all over the place. Some clear communication from the key people would be great, I'm ready to help--just let me know how.

Send me an email, pnosker@vericoin.info. You will need to reclone/compile.

All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.

Finally someone said this.

You do not like it, when the thieve robs an empty bag?

[T-800]

It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto makes it pretty clear now.

If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.

Decentralized (peer-to-peer) exchanges are the way forward. Would be awesome if VRC devs could implement this.

[buy4crypto]

At some point a blockchain technology will have a centralized nature, and people will benefit from it.

I bet you half the people who say the world centralized do not have a clue what it means, or what its implications are.

[foodies123]

What happens to the people who bought/sold outside of mintpal after the rollback ?

Also what if this happens again ? another rollback ? plugging the holes in a ship doesn't make it a better ship if it's still made out of shit.