[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[defaced]

im not even sure what im seeing haha

[SuperClam]

im not even sure what im seeing haha

You aren't the only person who has felt that way, I am sure  

If you have any questions, please feel more than welcome to fire away here, in PM, or via reddit @ our Sub-Reddit.

We try to do the best we can to respond

[kbroadfoot]

I am loving this coin/concept.... 

Am I right in thinking a Block Explorer for CLAM would be sort of useless for getting a true sense of how many CLAM has actually been claimed?
Or is there a way to indicate how many have actually been 'dug' up?

[SuperClam]

I am loving this coin/concept.... 
Am I right in thinking a Block Explorer for CLAM would be sort of useless for getting a true sense of how many CLAM has actually been claimed?
Or is there a way to indicate how many have actually been 'dug' up?

This is something we are currently wrestling with as we speak.

There have been some ideas posited that it might be possible to query the chain data identifying outputs which have moved since the distribution ended.

This wouldn't identify CLAMS which have been claimed but not moved, but it would identify distribution outputs that had been moved, and therefore clearly been claimed.

Not an easy task however, as there are a lot of outputs -> but we are optimistic.

[garthkiser]

CLAMS block explorer: http://khashier.com:2750/

[dooglus]

I am loving this coin/concept.... 

Am I right in thinking a Block Explorer for CLAM would be sort of useless for getting a true sense of how many CLAM has actually been claimed?
Or is there a way to indicate how many have actually been 'dug' up?

There's no way of knowing how many have been "dug up", unless "mining" was left enabled. Mining is on by default, and newly dug clams get a high priority for mining. They've not made a block for >60 days.

So a block explorer that counted how many of the initial coin distribution have ever been used to mine a block would give interesting information.

[Hippie Tech]

Chances are, much if not most of the coins will not be claimed once you take into consideration the lost/ forgotten about, vanity, cold storage wallets ect. Otoh, a high market price will help to twist a few more arms. lol

It would be nice to see a rich list.

Btw.. my 6.5 mb BTC wallet scored two 4.6 CLAM shares. Is that normal ?

[SuperClam]

Chances are, much if not most of the coins will not be claimed once you take into consideration the lost/ forgotten about, vanity, cold storage wallets ect. Otoh, a high market price will help to twist a few more arms. lol
It would be nice to see a rich list.
Btw.. my 6.5 mb BTC wallet scored two 4.6 CLAM shares. Is that normal ?

Hippie Tech,

Welcome to the thread

I think what you have said is likely very accurate.


Concerning your large wallet; the distribution was all about unique addresses with outputs.  So, if you had "gathered" your outputs, received them in large chunks, or re-used receive addresses that might explain only getting two shares.  Of coarse, 2 shares is likely quite a common distribution, as well.

[kbroadfoot]

As of this writing there are 1577.42107239 CLAM on Poloniex sell side...

So we know for sure that at least 1577.42107239 CLAM has been 'dug'.

Plus mine, which are NOT @ Poloniex but happily staking in my wallet makes it 1582.42107239 CLAM...

At one point 10 percent of all PMC was @ Poloniex...
 
I assume that since CLAM is pure POS and staking sort of fast enough, quite a few more are also in wallets staking...  elsewhere

Extrapolating, it is quite possible, right now, there are less than 20,000 CLAM in the wild...

Very very under priced 

[Zer0Sum]

As of this writing there are 1577.42107239 CLAM on Poloniex sell side...

So we know for sure that at least 1577.42107239 CLAM has been 'dug'.

Plus mine, which are NOT @ Poloniex but happily staking in my wallet makes it 1582.42107239 CLAM...

At one point 10 percent of all PMC was @ Poloniex...
 
I assume that since CLAM is pure POS and staking sort of fast enough, quite a few more are also in wallets staking...  elsewhere

Extrapolating, it is quite possible, right now, there are less than 20,000 CLAM in the wild...

Very very under priced 

I would bet you'll see at least 10% of the 14 million claimed somehow...
The price action last 3-4 days is very troubling... just a steady slide from 500 to 100.

No point selling now with that pool gearing up to buy clams and stake for the long term....
But it's a only like 30 MHash or the equivalent of 5 Gridseed G-Blades...
Why so low with the glut of scrypt ASICs out there?

[garthkiser]

Here is an unofficial website that I have created for CLAMS. I will give away or forward the domain if the devs make their own official website.

http://www.clamclient.com

[dooglus]

Can someone explain how the "mining" works?

I just mined 0.01052854 (txid 4838924d031291d4a21d1cfb956a82376cf8f997b455a601946255fe7907c234) using an address that was part of the initial distribution, and which I've not otherwise touched.

A couple of days ago it mined its first 0.00679001, and that was after a couple of months of inactivity, then 2 days later it mined another 0.0105...

I was thinking each 4.x output would mine a fixed amount per day, but this one mined more in the last 2 days than the previous 2 months, so now I know I don't understand it...

Edit: here's the Abe page for the address I'm talking about:

http://khashier.com:2750/address/xVBvXSadyMpcvU2nsDYTZJdctniVXfFBkK

[istvandv]

Can someone explain how the "mining" works?

I just mined 0.01052854 (txid 4838924d031291d4a21d1cfb956a82376cf8f997b455a601946255fe7907c234) using an address that was part of the initial distribution, and which I've not otherwise touched.

A couple of days ago it mined its first 0.00679001, and that was after a couple of months of inactivity, then 2 days later it mined another 0.0105...

I was thinking each 4.x output would mine a fixed amount per day, but this one mined more in the last 2 days than the previous 2 months, so now I know I don't understand it...

Edit: here's the Abe page for the address I'm talking about:

http://khashier.com:2750/address/xVBvXSadyMpcvU2nsDYTZJdctniVXfFBkK

PoS interest is 1% per year  

amount = 4.60545574
start date may 16 up to PoS mine july 08 = ~53.8 days

4.60545574 times 1% / 365 days times 53.8 days = 0.00679
so the first PoS is right
----
amount 4.61216361
start date July 8 up to july 11 = 3 days
4.61216361 times 1% / 365 days times 3 days = 0.00037908

that should be the amount you get for 3 days PoS mining

trying to get a 2nd PoS block now and see if i get the same results as yours

[dooglus]

PoS interest is 1% per year  

amount = 4.60545574
start date may 16 up to PoS mine july 08 = ~53.8 days

4.60545574 times 1% / 365 days times 53.8 days = 0.00679
so the first PoS is right
----
amount 4.61216361
start date July 8 up to july 11 = 3 days
4.61216361 times 1% / 365 days times 3 days = 0.00037908

that should be the amount you get for 3 days PoS mining

Most blocks I find do earn about that much, but check the top line:



Edit: The excess is transaction fees from the transactions I included in the block:
http://khashier.com:2750/block/9fd60333d224cd9a4dfa49433488a713ca7e477ff46b9b8ac5007983ddb2f4d5

[istvandv]

I am loving this coin/concept.... 

Am I right in thinking a Block Explorer for CLAM would be sort of useless for getting a true sense of how many CLAM has actually been claimed?
Or is there a way to indicate how many have actually been 'dug' up?

There's no way of knowing how many have been "dug up", unless "mining" was left enabled. Mining is on by default, and newly dug clams get a high priority for mining. They've not made a block for >60 days.

So a block explorer that counted how many of the initial coin distribution have ever been used to mine a block would give interesting information.

i "dug up" my clams
http://khashier.com:2750/tx/d461658062e513736f60f9df1f2896f166d3aa57eb82cabce6264f68bf17502e

of the 357 outputs, only 4 have been redeemed or only 1.12%

can that be used to determine how many actual clams are in circulation? the rest show in the block explorer as "not yet redeemed"

[kbroadfoot]

I would bet you'll see at least 10% of the 14 million claimed somehow...
The price action last 3-4 days is very troubling... just a steady slide from 500 to 100.

No point selling now with that pool gearing up to buy clams and stake for the long term....
But it's a only like 30 MHash or the equivalent of 5 Gridseed G-Blades...
Why so low with the glut of scrypt ASICs out there?

I think when the price was north of 0.005 BTC each we had some dumpers... For many people even 0.02 BTC is a lot of money... ( explains all the micro-trades @ poloniex )

Pure POS, 1 minute blocks, awesome distribution, CLAM is pretty under priced right now..

"This website was NOT created by the original CLAMS developers. It was created by a cryptocurrency trader and his GIRLFRIEND who think that CLAMS is just about the coolest thing they’ve ever seen. "  http://clamclient.com

If the girls like it.... watch out! The sky is the limit!  

Also the low hashrate is good for people with GPU and even CPU's to get a few while it's early...

[dooglus]

Also the low hashrate is good for people with GPU and even CPU's to get a few while it's early...

From what I understand, you only get to make one hash per second per transaction output, so using a GPU won't get you any more coins than using a CPU.

Also, even if it did get you more blocks, each block subsidy is proportional to the CLAM-days destroyed, and so doubling the number of blocks you mine would halve the average subsidy per block.

I've been tracking block rewards I received, and noting the corresponding "days destroyed" for each.

The ones I've seen:

Code:

  4 0.00010951
  5 0.00013689
  6 0.00016427
  7 0.00019165
  8 0.00021903
  9 0.00024641
 10 0.00027379
 11 0.00030116
 12 0.00032854
 13 0.00035592
 14 0.0003833

ie. you get about 2738 CLAMoshis per day destroyed. Sometimes you'll see odd rewards (I saw 0.01052854 a while ago) - but that's just 0.00032854 (the reward for destroying 12 CLAM-days) plus 0.0102 (the sum of the transaction fees offered by people wanting their transactions confirmed)

[dooglus]

I just posted an "issue" on github:

    https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/issues/3

I'm worried that the coming change to a lottery system pretty much breaks the "proof of stake" system, by making the block reward completely independent of the size of your stake.

Under the current system I can chose to run the client once a month if I like, and collect my whole month's "interest" in one lump. Or I can collect it daily. There's no benefit to doing it either way.

Under the new system I get the same expected return each time I stake. If I only run the client once a month I get 30 times less interest than if I run it every day.

Is that right, or am I mistaken?

[almightyruler]

Under the current system I can chose to run the client once a month if I like, and collect my whole month's "interest" in one lump. Or I can collect it daily. There's no benefit to doing it either way.

Under the new system I get the same expected return each time I stake. If I only run the client once a month I get 30 times less interest than if I run it every day.

Encouraging people to leave their client open (through the incentive of small but consistent rewards) does benefit the network, especially since this is a PoS only coin. Orbitcoin moved to this model a few months ago. Yes, it does also mean that people who understand staking will probably split their balance so that they'll end up with more overall stakes, but don't forget that PoS minting is still limited network-wide, so you may not necessarily be able to mint every PoS block that you are entitled to.

Not really sure about random subsidies. If the subsidy is known in advance (eg seed based on hash of the previous block) it would be trivial to add some extra code to pick and choose, only staking when the subsidy is a good amount. This could give people with relatively small balances a distinct advantage because even though they may not be able to consistently generate blocks, their per-block reward will be much higher than average.

[phzi]

I think when the price was north of 0.005 BTC each we had some dumpers... For many people even 0.02 BTC is a lot of money... ( explains all the micro-trades @ poloniex )

Pretty much.  I sold all my clams at around 0.0075 CLAM/BTC.  Cleared a solid 0.5 BTC profit with little effort.

I will probably re-buy clams at some point, but I don't think it's quite time yet.

I'm waiting for a better wallet interface that has a proper GUI interface for importing wallet.dat files from BTC/LTC/Doge.  Clams can only go so far without this, IMO.

Also the low hashrate is good for people with GPU and even CPU's to get a few while it's early...

Proof of Share coins aren't mined like that... ?