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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1804206 times)
miscreanity
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May 23, 2012, 10:14:30 PM
 #1601

General Comment: Gold's performance in relation to the USDX is startling and troubling today.
The upward move in BTC that I was anticipating remains something of a yawn.

Norcini - Central Bank Gold Buyers Battling Hedge Funds Today

While cypherdoc and so many others have been selling, thinking gold is going to fall into oblivion from here, banks and other large interests have been buying like mad - a transfer of wealth from weak holders and misinterpretations to strong hands established on what actually is happening. It's all about the phyzzz.

105,231 silver contracts were dumped on the market this morning between 9am and 10am EST, as silver was smashed a dollar from $28 to $27.

The paper is coming from out of nowhere: QE is in progress, and orders of magnitude greater than anything the world has ever seen. These "markets" are a complete fabrication - prices are not reflecting value of real assets!
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bitsire
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May 23, 2012, 10:25:54 PM
 #1602

Why is this thread so popular? I just read a couple of the beginning pages and a few of the end. It started about one thing but I don't know what is is about now?

I just discovered this thread recently myself after diversifying into Bitcoin and I find it a nice change from some of the precious metals blogs/forums that I frequent. This community is definitely much more technical, so considering I still have Load "$",8,1 embedded in my head from a misspent youth on a Commodore 64, I definitely prefer the clientele here over your typical "Stack silver bitchez!" crowd.  Wink

Also, it's not all metals all the time over here - if I want that I can go to King World News. If you were to ask someone on this thread about the reasoning behind their positions, you're much more likely to get a very detailed, technical and informative post rather than just cheerleading.

Anyway, I'm off to KWN so I can fantasize about being a multi-millionaire any day now  Grin
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May 23, 2012, 10:27:43 PM
 #1603

Its hard to argue with this...

http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=DX&p=d1
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=DX&p=w1

Im on board with the idea that gold is going below the 2011 low (~$1523)  ... Im just not sure it will stay there very long.
miscreanity
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May 23, 2012, 11:10:23 PM
 #1604

Im on board with the idea that gold is going below the 2011 low (~$1523)  ... Im just not sure it will stay there very long.

"Official" pricing could stay there permanently if the assault by banks & gov'ts is finally successful in fully separating paper & physical. Paper remains manageable, while physical is unavailable at paper prices; artificially-induced shortages.
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May 23, 2012, 11:41:56 PM
 #1605

Why is this thread so popular? I just read a couple of the beginning pages and a few of the end. It started about one thing but I don't know what is is about now?
Hmm... "I skipped the majority of the conversation and now I'm lost" is what I'm hearing.
Yes. I would say it differently. I tried to figure out what the converstation was about without reading for 20 minutes. After 5 minutes I decided to just ask because I was lost.
Let's make the long story short: Mr. Cypherdoc, the great marketer, tries to scare some wealthy individuals out of PM market to support bitcoins, but those stingy bugs won't budge, holding on for dear life to their coin bags, kicking and screaming.  Grin

I concur mightily...and lol'd.


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May 24, 2012, 12:58:24 AM
 #1606

Why is this thread so popular? I just read a couple of the beginning pages and a few of the end. It started about one thing but I don't know what is is about now?
Hmm... "I skipped the majority of the conversation and now I'm lost" is what I'm hearing.
Yes. I would say it differently. I tried to figure out what the converstation was about without reading for 20 minutes. After 5 minutes I decided to just ask because I was lost.
Let's make the long story short: Mr. Cypherdoc, the great marketer, tries to scare some wealthy individuals out of PM market to support bitcoins, but those stingy bugs won't budge, holding on for dear life to their coin bags, kicking and screaming.  Grin

I concur mightily...and lol'd.




as the USD skyrockets.  wasn't the whole premise of gold/silver to offset a USD plunge?

i truly wonder who the true marketers are?  certainly you guys. 

as pointed out in the Etsy Labs talk.  you guys are losing out on both ends; rising USD and falling gold/silver.  must hurt.  problem is, you better hope you're not wrong.

it's actually become a religion.   Grin
miscreanity
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May 24, 2012, 01:21:36 AM
 #1607

as the USD skyrockets.  wasn't the whole premise of gold/silver to offset a USD plunge?

i truly wonder who the true marketers are?  certainly you guys. 

as pointed out in the Etsy Labs talk.  you guys are losing out on both ends; rising USD and falling gold/silver.  must hurt.  problem is, you better hope you're not wrong.

it's actually become a religion.   Grin

No - the dollar can go up, down and all around. That doesn't change the fact that it is being rejected around the world. All you're seeing is a rising dollar juxtaposed with a falling paper gold. There is no valid discovery mechanism for gold's value with existing markets because the assumption is that the denomination is fiat rather than gold. Priced In Gold is the closest we have to observing gold's true value.

Anyone holding physical metal has experienced a rise in purchasing power and has no need to fear any financial catastrophe, whether deflationary or inflationary. The dollar and other fiat currencies can whip up and down all they want: physical holders can ignore them and do things other than obsessively trade or invest - like live their lives! What hurts is the sad trend of western nations toward a modernized Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin-style fascism and the associated destruction of humanity.

What you can't see is wiping you out. Dig deeper than the numbers flitting across your screen; get financial NVGs.




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May 24, 2012, 01:27:05 AM
 #1608

Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009. Too easy to counterfeit, heavy, physical, …

The future is controlled scarcity/inflation in the digital realm, and only Bitcoin can do that without a central authority.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
cypherdoc
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May 24, 2012, 01:30:28 AM
 #1609


No - the dollar can go up, down and all around. That doesn't change the fact that it is being rejected around the world. All you're seeing is a rising dollar juxtaposed with a falling paper gold. There is no valid discovery mechanism for gold's value with existing markets because the assumption is that the denomination is fiat rather than gold. Priced In Gold is the closest we have to observing gold's true value.

this is all in your mind.  i asked you before; give me a link to where i can sell the last remaining gold coins i have for this mythical $35000/oz price you keep touting.  

the fact is the USD is rising relative to everything.  unfortunately, real prices are reflected in the charts.  i can now buy 1 oz of silver for 54% of what i did last May despite what you're preaching.

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Anyone holding physical metal has experienced a rise in purchasing power and has no need to fear any financial catastrophe, whether deflationary or inflationary.

goes up in value no matter what!!!  anyone with a brain can see this is wrong.

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The dollar and other fiat currencies can whip up and down all they want: physical holders can ignore them and do things other than obsessively trade or invest - like live their lives! What hurts is the sad trend of western nations toward a modernized Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin-style fascism and the associated destruction of humanity.

hey bitcool;  who's trying to scare ppl into investing in what?  i'd say gold bugs are notorious for this.

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What you can't see is wiping you out. Dig deeper than the numbers flitting across your screen

unfortunately, the screens reflect real prices, ie, reality.  you're living in a dream.
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May 24, 2012, 01:41:07 AM
 #1610

Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan
cypherdoc
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May 24, 2012, 01:43:16 AM
 #1611

Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan


"Hope is the denial of reality."
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May 24, 2012, 01:52:24 AM
 #1612

Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan
"Hope is the denial of reality."
Are you talking about gold, or its obsoleteness? 
It can be interpreted either way Cheesy
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May 24, 2012, 01:59:09 AM
 #1613

Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan


"Hope is the denial of reality."

Interesting quote...coming from you...  As best I can tell, the entire foundation of your belief that the all economic activity of earth is destined to revolve around Bitcoin is constructed almost exclusively of 'hope'.


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May 24, 2012, 02:05:50 AM
 #1614

Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan


"Hope is the denial of reality."

Interesting quote...coming from you...  As best I can tell, the entire foundation of your belief that the all economic activity of earth is destined to revolve around Bitcoin is constructed almost exclusively of 'hope'.



all investing requires some degree of hope/intuition/guessing.  i've studied Bitcoin probably more than you have just from the mere fact of having been around longer.  we've obviously come to different conclusions.

the hope that gold will ever resume the mantle of the reserve currency of the world is not plausible imo.

i'm quite sure that gold could go to zero and i would never be able to change your mind.
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May 24, 2012, 02:21:24 AM
 #1615

yes, imo:

a gold bugs worst nightmare is Bitcoin.
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May 24, 2012, 02:26:18 AM
 #1616

Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan


"Hope is the denial of reality."

Interesting quote...coming from you...  As best I can tell, the entire foundation of your belief that the all economic activity of earth is destined to revolve around Bitcoin is constructed almost exclusively of 'hope'.


all investing requires some degree of hope/intuition/guessing.

And a large inheritance to piss away never hurts either.

i've studied Bitcoin probably more than you have just from the mere fact of having been around longer.  we've obviously come to different conclusions.

the hope that gold will ever resume the mantle of the reserve currency of the world is not plausible imo.

i'm quite sure that gold could go to zero and i would never be able to change your mind.

Gold is the most likely 'default' at this time and probably will be for the rest of my life.  I'm not especially happy about that reality, and if it every does realize the (rather unwelcome) 'mantle' I expect that it would be transient, but I'm a realist and simply want to take as few chances with my core nest-egg as possible.  I'm happy to gamble my excess on Bitcoin, and do, as I've stated many times.

It actually boggles my mind that a seemingly intelligent person would gamble their core position on something as unproven and misunderstood as Bitcoin.  Even more that they would, with a straight face, suggest that others do the same.  Especially in these times as so much is changing.

Oh ya, gold could easily go to zero when the alchemists finally find the prize they've been seeking and that would change my mind rather quickly.


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May 24, 2012, 02:36:21 AM
 #1617


Gold is the most likely 'default' at this time and probably will be for the rest of my life.  I'm not especially happy about that reality, and if it every does realize the (rather unwelcome) 'mantle' I expect that it would be transient, but I'm a realist and simply want to take as few chances with my core nest-egg as possible.  I'm happy to gamble my excess on Bitcoin, and do, as I've stated many times.

excuse me, but what is the reserve currency of the world?  USD's last i checked.  and in the midst of turmoil, what exactly is going up?  oh yeah, USD's.  and what exactly has been going down for almost a year?  gold and silver.

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It actually boggles my mind that a seemingly intelligent person would gamble their core position on something as unproven and misunderstood as Bitcoin.  Even more that they would, with a straight face, suggest that others do the same.  Especially in these times as so much is changing.

first of all, its not my core position.  i'm diversified thank you.  what boggles my mind is that someone like you could put your core position in heavy metals that will never function as a day to day currency and won't ever go back to being a reserve currency.

Bitcoin has remained unphased in this latest market turmoil and in the face of a rising USD.

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Oh ya, gold could easily go to zero when the alchemists finally find the prize they've been seeking and that would change my mind rather quickly.

what about all these articles lots of ppl have been linking to about asteroids and gold synthesis?
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May 24, 2012, 03:02:08 AM
 #1618


Gold is the most likely 'default' at this time and probably will be for the rest of my life.  I'm not especially happy about that reality, and if it every does realize the (rather unwelcome) 'mantle' I expect that it would be transient, but I'm a realist and simply want to take as few chances with my core nest-egg as possible.  I'm happy to gamble my excess on Bitcoin, and do, as I've stated many times.

excuse me, but what is the reserve currency of the world?  USD's last i checked.  and in the midst of turmoil, what exactly is going up?  oh yeah, USD's.  and what exactly has been going down for almost a year?  gold and silver.

As far as I am concerned, the US is mathematically certain to default on it's obligations at some point, and is likely to do so prior to it becoming mandatory anyway.  To the extent that I hold USD, it will be me who gets the shaft.  In the mean time any number of things could happen.  I've sat through similar periods of PM consolidation and never got in a panic about things.  I'm not even close to doing so this time either.

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It actually boggles my mind that a seemingly intelligent person would gamble their core position on something as unproven and misunderstood as Bitcoin.  Even more that they would, with a straight face, suggest that others do the same.  Especially in these times as so much is changing.

first of all, its not my core position.  i'm diversified thank you.

Thanks for finally sharing this tid-bit with us non-paying leeches.

what boggles my mind is that someone like you could put your core position in heavy metals that will never function as a day to day currency and won't ever go back to being a reserve currency.

I don't require or expect that it does either in order for gold to meet my needs perfectly adequately.

Bitcoin has remained unphased in this latest market turmoil and in the face of a rising USD.

That is because it remains in a deep hibernation.  The only difference between now and when I was more outwardly vocal about it's potential is because it is not it a state of cardiac arrest at this moment.  If it's going to 'go', it now has at least the ability to get to the starting point.

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Oh ya, gold could easily go to zero when the alchemists finally find the prize they've been seeking and that would change my mind rather quickly.

what about all these articles lots of ppl have been linking to about asteroids and gold synthesis?

Both of these are utter nonsense.  Transmutation has a theoretical potential worth keeping tabs on.


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May 24, 2012, 03:14:57 AM
 #1619


As far as I am concerned, the US is mathematically certain to default on it's obligations at some point, and is likely to do so prior to it becoming mandatory anyway.  To the extent that I hold USD, it will be me who gets the shaft.  In the mean time any number of things could happen.  I've sat through similar periods of PM consolidation and never got in a panic about things.  I'm not even close to doing so this time either.

and this is where your economic model is exactly wrong.  sovereign debt defaults by themselves are driving the USD higher.  if UST's start to default this will drive the remaining USD's ever more skyward.  what about this don't you understand?  the debt buildup is directly responsible for the falling USD the last 4 decades.
Quote

Thanks for finally sharing this tid-bit with us non-paying leeches.

and this is why you're a troll.  there are plenty of legitimate businesses here on the forum trying to make a "go" of it with a Bitcoin business.  you clearly despise this.  what's wrong with you?  are you that much of an anarchist?

Quote

Both of these are utter nonsense.  Transmutation has a theoretical potential worth keeping tabs on.


actually we agree on this one.
miscreanity
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May 24, 2012, 03:24:02 AM
 #1620

Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009. Too easy to counterfeit, heavy, physical, …

The future is controlled scarcity/inflation in the digital realm, and only Bitcoin can do that without a central authority.

It may be easy to dupe many end users for now, but it is much more difficult to fool dealers and virtually impossible to get one over on mints and refineries. Were gold more prevalent, people would have more familiarity to a point where the ear is attuned to the sound and the hand recognizes valid heft. Not that counterfeiting would be eliminated, but it would go a long way to reducing the ease.

I do agree with the latter point, I just think the world isn't at that transition point yet. Within a decade, perhaps - in the 2020-2040 range, it's almost guaranteed.

this is all in your mind.  i asked you before; give me a link to where i can sell the last remaining gold coins i have for this mythical $35000/oz price you keep touting.  

the fact is the USD is rising relative to everything.  unfortunately, real prices are reflected in the charts.  i can now buy 1 oz of silver for 54% of what i did last May despite what you're preaching.

That's exactly the point - there is no direct way of approximating the price without being part of the highest circles of influence. All of the official numbers thrown at us have been tainted by such an extreme level of unreliability that there's no way to trust them as being legitimate. The US employment numbers alone are so blatantly rigged that even the MSM has finally capitulated and run the story.

We can extrapolate based on the divergence between gold production relative to existing reserves, versus rates of fiat creation and associated debt instruments. Based on that, they are so far apart that the current prices for gold are nowhere even close to the low end of possibilities in fiat terms.

The best approximation I've seen is: Priced In Gold.

goes up in value no matter what!!!  anyone with a brain can see this is wrong.

Not "goes up in value no matter what" - maintains purchasing power relative to other real goods no matter what. This distinction is very important.

as the USD skyrockets.  wasn't the whole premise of gold/silver to offset a USD plunge?

i truly wonder who the true marketers are?  certainly you guys.  

as pointed out in the Etsy Labs talk.  you guys are losing out on both ends; rising USD and falling gold/silver.  must hurt.  problem is, you better hope you're not wrong.

it's actually become a religion.   Grin

Quote
The dollar and other fiat currencies can whip up and down all they want: physical holders can ignore them and do things other than obsessively trade or invest - like live their lives! What hurts is the sad trend of western nations toward a modernized Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin-style fascism and the associated destruction of humanity.

hey bitcool;  who's trying to scare ppl into investing in what?  i'd say gold bugs are notorious for this.

Do not play the demagogic politician by conflating my stance on precious metals with the patterns I see in social leadership. They may be related, but are still separable concerns. I truly hope that I am wrong in the social context, but nothing is suggestive of that save the potential of a singular, transcendent event.

unfortunately, the screens reflect real prices, ie, reality.  you're living in a dream.

A lie behind a screen, masquerading as reality, is not reality. Let me know when you've mastered the ability to grab smoke and hold a reflection.

Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan
"Hope is the denial of reality."
Are you talking about gold, or its obsoleteness?  
It can be interpreted either way Cheesy

Booya!

yes, imo:

a gold bugs worst nightmare is Bitcoin.

A gold bug's best friend is Bitcoin. There is no other financial instrument capable of offering improved functionality with the same set of emergent benefits.

When the time finally comes to make the transition, what else would ever be able to hold the wealth accumulated from millennia of use as a store of value than Bitcoin? Only Bitcoin or a variant of it.

Gold is the most likely 'default' at this time and probably will be for the rest of my life.  I'm not especially happy about that reality, and if it every does realize the (rather unwelcome) 'mantle' I expect that it would be transient, but I'm a realist and simply want to take as few chances with my core nest-egg as possible.  I'm happy to gamble my excess on Bitcoin, and do, as I've stated many times.

Default how, realistically? A transient period measured in years to decades doesn't seem so bad to me as a way of preventing destitution at the hands of fiat-pushers.

excuse me, but what is the reserve currency of the world?  USD's last i checked.  and in the midst of turmoil, what exactly is going up?  oh yeah, USD's.  and what exactly has been going down for almost a year?  gold and silver.

And look at how much it is being denied continuance of its legacy by growing powers around the world. The dominant Silverback only maintains power for so long before his demise.

what about all these articles lots of ppl have been linking to about asteroids and gold synthesis?

Those are years, if not decades away from actually occurring, let alone being economically worthwhile or even possible.
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