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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805134 times)
molecular
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November 19, 2012, 07:26:17 AM
 #3661

Don't ignore the case, no. But don't use it to make a point either.

There are definitely too many hurdles for most people, I just think this case is a shitty example.

It's actually a very good example, because it hit nearly every extrinsic limitation of Bitcoin today. It illustrates the connectivity-dependent nature of the system, potential inconsistency with related software, and the extent of planning necessary to conduct a transaction in less-than-ideal circumstances. Even if it's an edge case, it means there are opportunities for enterprising minds to provide numerous types of supporting services that will smooth the situation.

What would be even more interesting is information to compare how many smooth transactions occur relative to how many run into problems, and the extent of failure (e.g. delayed versus canceled, performed through another currency, etc).

you mean to tell me there are no Starbuck's in Iceland?  those ppl were just not motivated enough, plain and simple.

$10 for wifi is standard fare.  should've been no big deal.  i just paid $12 per 24h while travelling.

pff. friggin $10 for wifi is a joke. Go to south korea for a change: free wifi on the smallest friggin island. When I was in London I bought 500 MB of data each day for €2. I can do this in almost all European countries and the provider I have is not a positive exception.

Most mobile providers offer pretty affordable data plan abroad nowadays. it's only getting better, too, since customers are growing more aware of these things when making a contract and therefor it's a selling point and providers are growing more aware of the fact.

I think "not motivated enough" hits the nail on the head. Island is not some 3rd world country (although I tend to think the situation might even be better in 3rd world countries),... there are internet cafes (who specialize in offering internet connection to customers, their main business, the other being to offer computers for use) and cafes with free wifi for sure. Screw the hotel for advertising free wifi when it doesn't offer it.

I've been driving from germany to Amman, Jordan a couple years ago (passing through bulgaria, turkey, syria and so on, 13 different countries in all). Getting internet was usually much easier than finding a good, cheap place to sleep (we blogged regularly so we had to have internet basically every night)

The only problem I see with bitcoins dependance on network infrastructure is in some sort of an armageddon-style situation or global war or something. Hopefully the powers that be will not initiate ww3 just to kill bitcoin.

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November 19, 2012, 11:53:19 AM
 #3662

Don't ignore the case, no. But don't use it to make a point either.

There are definitely too many hurdles for most people, I just think this case is a shitty example.

It's actually a very good example, because it hit nearly every extrinsic limitation of Bitcoin today. It illustrates the connectivity-dependent nature of the system, potential inconsistency with related software, and the extent of planning necessary to conduct a transaction in less-than-ideal circumstances. Even if it's an edge case, it means there are opportunities for enterprising minds to provide numerous types of supporting services that will smooth the situation.

What would be even more interesting is information to compare how many smooth transactions occur relative to how many run into problems, and the extent of failure (e.g. delayed versus canceled, performed through another currency, etc).

you mean to tell me there are no Starbuck's in Iceland?  those ppl were just not motivated enough, plain and simple.

$10 for wifi is standard fare.  should've been no big deal.  i just paid $12 per 24h while travelling.

pff. friggin $10 for wifi is a joke. Go to south korea for a change: free wifi on the smallest friggin island. When I was in London I bought 500 MB of data each day for €2. I can do this in almost all European countries and the provider I have is not a positive exception.

Most mobile providers offer pretty affordable data plan abroad nowadays. it's only getting better, too, since customers are growing more aware of these things when making a contract and therefor it's a selling point and providers are growing more aware of the fact.

I think "not motivated enough" hits the nail on the head. Island is not some 3rd world country (although I tend to think the situation might even be better in 3rd world countries),... there are internet cafes (who specialize in offering internet connection to customers, their main business, the other being to offer computers for use) and cafes with free wifi for sure. Screw the hotel for advertising free wifi when it doesn't offer it.

I've been driving from germany to Amman, Jordan a couple years ago (passing through bulgaria, turkey, syria and so on, 13 different countries in all). Getting internet was usually much easier than finding a good, cheap place to sleep (we blogged regularly so we had to have internet basically every night)

The only problem I see with bitcoins dependance on network infrastructure is in some sort of an armageddon-style situation or global war or something. Hopefully the powers that be will not initiate ww3 just to kill bitcoin.

The Kindle 3G keyboard third,fourth generation and the Kindle Paperwhite 3G fifth generation provides free 3G connectivity (GPRS,EDGE,3G) worldwide.
I have experience with Kindle 3G keyboard third generation in so many different places worldwide and just one times I don't have connectivity in Guam.

Supporting people with beautiful creative ideas. Bitcoin is because of the developers,exchanges,merchants,miners,investors,users,machines and blockchain technologies work together.
ElectricMucus
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November 19, 2012, 02:14:39 PM
 #3663

The concentrated delusion in this thread is mind-boggling.  Embarrassed

I ask you this: How do you account for Golds uniqueness, that is it's natural scarcity and it's practical use based upon it's physical properties.
Do you really think that Bitcoin will never be replaced by some similar, more advanced technology?
Do you really think in the case of the possible compromise of it's security people would stick to Bitcoin instead of switching to something else which already uses different algorithms?

To remind you: Satoshi intended Bitcoin to be "an experiment" and possible provide freedom for "a few years". That are his words, so the things you attribute to Bitcoin is something that it wasn't intended to be.
At last: Do you think Satoshi lacked the foresight to see potential shortcomings of his own design and designed a perfect system by accident?

And finally, why do you suppose Bitcoin and Gold shouldn't coexist in the coming years?

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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November 19, 2012, 03:41:07 PM
 #3664

I think "not motivated enough" hits the nail on the head.

I believe the post stated that he found free WiFi connections, but was having difficulty getting the software to perform a transaction.
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November 19, 2012, 03:45:43 PM
 #3665

Guess what's rallying while something else is dropping? I think that, based on this one-day move, I'll start a thread titled:

"Dollar failing, gold UP" Smiley
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November 19, 2012, 04:26:09 PM
 #3666

Guess what's rallying while something else is dropping? I think that, based on this one-day move, I'll start a thread titled:

"Dollar failing, gold UP" Smiley

Wink
molecular
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November 19, 2012, 06:26:47 PM
 #3667

ElectricMucus, let me try to alleviate your mind's boggledness:

(bolding mine for speed-readers)

The concentrated delusion in this thread is mind-boggling.  Embarrassed

I ask you this: How do you account for Golds uniqueness, that is it's natural scarcity and it's practical use based upon it's physical properties.

while silver is less scarce (while it's supply is probably equally known, which is really the decisive factor), its practical use is even higher than golds. Gold is not unique, it's just that people decided to use it instead of platinum, copper or silver.

Do you really think that Bitcoin will never be replaced by some similar, more advanced technology?

I'm not sure I want to agree that bitcoin is less unique than gold: It would be hard for an altcoin to get even a low percentage of people to switch (assuming similar tech). The network effect advantage for bitcoin is huge and should new technological developments improve the system ("proof of stake" is the best-looking candidate in my mind currently, but too early to tell) then this tech can be incorporated into bitcoin. If the danger of PPCoin taking the lead is big enough, bitcoiners will import the new tech.

So I'm not really sure, but one could argue that all cryptographic money is in the end: bitcoin. Didn't I hear cypherdoc say something like: "there can only be one big cahuna"? It was in a different context, but maybe it's applicable in the subspace of cryptographic money?

Do you really think in the case of the possible compromise of it's security people would stick to Bitcoin instead of switching to something else which already uses different algorithms?

as argued above, bitcoin would switch its implementation. A hard-fork is not as hard as some think it might be. Only a couple of big-shots (who all know each other) need to get together to make it happen over night.

To remind you: Satoshi intended Bitcoin to be "an experiment" and possible provide freedom for "a few years". That are his words, so the things you attribute to Bitcoin is something that it wasn't intended to be.

To be honest: Satoshis original intentions are irrelevant at this point. He probably didn't even think bitcoin would come this far. It's his baby but he has given it away intentionally.


At last: Do you think Satoshi lacked the foresight to see potential shortcomings of his own design and designed a perfect system by accident?

No he didn't. That's part of the reason why he made it opensource community-driven... so it can adapt.

And finally, why do you suppose Bitcoin and Gold shouldn't coexist in the coming years?

I know this will be disputed by others, but I think they will... for quite some time (at least 2 generations)

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November 19, 2012, 09:12:03 PM
 #3668

while silver is less scarce (while it's supply is probably equally known, which is really the decisive factor), its practical use is even higher than golds. Gold is not unique, it's just that people decided to use it instead of platinum, copper or silver.

Gold is unique, as is any other elements. People choose gold because it didn't rust (contrary to silver & copper) and because it was still quite available (contrary to platinum & palladium). In that sense, gold as some characteristics that made it more desirable.
And btw, I'm not saying silver is a worse investment right now. I'm mostly long silver in PMs. To me what makes it a good bet right now is function of his (low) price compared to his properties.

1BestioLC7YBVh8Q5LfH6RYURD6MrpP8y6
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November 19, 2012, 09:20:06 PM
 #3669

GPL and gold did pretty swell today.
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November 20, 2012, 01:22:22 AM
 #3670

It's easier to grasp an idea when you already have the building blocks.
yes, but this is America.  WE are the building blocks of the world.  or is it the blockheads of the world?

Forget the blocks, I think it's gone schizophrenic Undecided

Doesn't matter - this is all the world needs.

Update:
This might be virtual Armaggedon -
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/threat-spectacular-cyberattack-looms-official-185505164.html

propaganda like this really piss me off!!!!! it makes me so furious!!
please go flame rosenbach's here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgAQC1PGDlE

bitcoin > gold for the coming age (minus any Armageddon scenarios)  but....
it has some minor problems holding it back.
we have many years before the propagandized baby boomers are out of the way. they believe the crap rosenbach spews oout of his pie hole.

also we have the older gens that aren't tech savvy.
I went to my local pawnshop today to show the owner a casacius. he couldnt comprehend it. all he could say is "i dont even know how to turn on a computer". and he understands the paper ponzi we live in is a big fraud.

we wont see gold collapse, but we will see a continued bullish trend for btc as the older gen's gold meme slowly fade away, the younger gen will embrace btc for its future convenience. even though they dont understand they political advantages. like now kids just wanna swipe their card and go.

i'm going out on a limb here.
i really dont think government legislation will be the biggest hurdle because......businesses are already embracing btc: big pharma, wordpress.com, and others i dont know about (minus finance industry). governemt today is really just an extension of power business interest's. business will take advantage of the tax safe haven btc offers and lobby to keep it a safe haven.

I think the biggest hurdle is another greater technology that will challenge btc.
face it the gold meme will fade over the coming decades, like it has before.    i own physical gold btw.

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November 20, 2012, 04:31:17 AM
 #3671

for now is silver good invest?
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November 21, 2012, 12:36:03 AM
 #3672

for now is silver good invest?

long term i believe because of the industrial uses. it will keep pace with inflation and we should see a spike when the paper ponzi ends. hold physical dont let somebody sell you paper silver. people have already been frauded out of paper claims in the billions of dollars (mf global).

but silver is cheap to mine so dont let people tell you its going to $500 per oz. anytime soon.

silver and btc ftw

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November 23, 2012, 09:57:41 PM
 #3673

That damn gold is collapsing upwards again!! Wink
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November 23, 2012, 10:01:08 PM
 #3674


its ineradicable they flood the market with fake gold bars and still the damn thing goes up

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November 23, 2012, 10:11:18 PM
 #3675


its ineradicable they flood the market with fake gold bars and still the damn thing goes up

lol

and: thanks for teaching me some vocabulary.

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November 24, 2012, 04:13:11 AM
 #3676

its ineradicable they flood the market with fake gold bars and still the damn thing goes up

Of course.

First, the market isn't being 'flooded' with fake bars. Second, the more expensive it becomes to verify validity, the higher the end cost will rise.

Several thousand years of fundamental familiarity cannot be dispelled by paper chicanery.

So what happened to the dollar? It doesn't look so well...
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November 24, 2012, 04:32:07 AM
 #3677

 Roll Eyes  crazy gold bugs   Cheesy

Of course the market is being  'flooded' with fake bars....

i kid  Tongue

it only happens sometimes Smiley

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November 28, 2012, 04:44:21 PM
 #3678

cypher's new gold meme:  "I will grind you down".
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November 28, 2012, 05:14:22 PM
 #3679

cypher's new gold meme:  "I will grind you down".

Your grinder is broken.
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November 28, 2012, 05:26:02 PM
 #3680

cypher's new gold meme:  "I will grind you down".

Your grinder is broken.

It seems to be working fine today.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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