cypherdoc (OP)
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June 25, 2014, 04:08:15 PM |
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Even in the event that an attacker gains more than 50% of the network's
computational power, only transactions sent by the attacker could be
reversed or double-spent. The network would not be destroyed.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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FNG
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June 25, 2014, 04:11:15 PM |
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as a previous enthusiast energy trader, these sorts of strategic issues have been going on for years if not decades. i highly doubt the last few months of shenanigans represent some sort of seminal moment. That is a logical comment that would work in a logical world ... but the world is currently run by crusty old men (think: cheney) who are no longer (or never were) attractive to young women, and who only get female attention (read: pussy) by spending money. These sociopathic, otherwise irrelevant old men should be put out to pasture so they can spend time with their grandkids, but because they believe they still have some relevance, they persist in trying to run/ruin the world. They should be euthanized. Ask a 20 year old male if he would instantly add 40 years to his life in exchange for $10M and he would tell you to go fuck yourself. No one wants to be old. Thus, even though it makes absolutely no sense for china and russia to willingly fuck the USD because it would also fuck them, they will still do it. Like the scorpion story in a prevous post, that's just how they are. I'm guessing one year maximum before something really bad happens. if they can string it out longer I'll be happy but I also wouldn't be surprised to see it happen tomorrow. I had a question about the whole china and russia news about the USD. Can someone explain this to me. No matter how many articles I read on it (I think they are not using it anymore) I am not understanding it and what it means for the USD. Thanks Countries have begun, en masse. withdrawing support for the USD. Debt purchases, petro for USD, and global trade carried out in USD used to support the $ / current financial construct where most currencies are a derivative of the USD -> USD in vaults gives substance to their home currency. Less and less people are showing up to auctions which leads to the FED purchasing all debt. China among others are carrying out trade in other currencies which leads to less support of the global reserve currency AKA USD. And last but not least, countries are beginning to sell oil for currencies other than the USD. The Gulf with support of the U.S Military keeps the current petro-dollar system in place. This is rapidly deteriorating and coming to a head in Iraq / Syria. Russia seems to be in control as of late and has been out-gaming the U.S. Any more miss-steps and the U.S may find themselves in a weimar situation as the USD gets jettisoned for gold. |
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cypherdoc (OP)
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June 25, 2014, 04:21:04 PM |
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Any more miss-steps and the U.S may find themselves in a weimar situation as the USD gets jettisoned for gold.
i think we do see the world the same way. however this thread is filled with great discussion about why Bitcoin would be better than gold as a reserve currency (or at least backing for one). what specifically is your contention with Bitcoin? perhaps you can answer this 2 ways: first assume there are no security issues with Bitcoin, second assuming there may be, what they are. |
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FNG
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June 25, 2014, 04:38:33 PM |
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Any more miss-steps and the U.S may find themselves in a weimar situation as the USD gets jettisoned for gold.
i think we do see the world the same way. however this thread is filled with great discussion about why Bitcoin would be better than gold as a reserve currency (or at least backing for one). what specifically is your contention with Bitcoin? perhaps you can answer this 2 ways: first assume there are no security issues with Bitcoin, second assuming there may be, what they are. I have no contentions with bitcoin. Maybe you missed where I defended this accusation already. I believe bitcoin will succeed as the chosen protocol to carry out a variety of tasks. Payments, remittance, contracts, etc. I don't think central banks are going to immediately replace the value of their USD holdings with bitcoin though. A large vacuum is going to take place as value flows from CB books USD holdings to gold holdings. Gold is in position, bitcoin is not. The current financial system as we know it (dollar centric) is going to change to a system where the yard stick (aka value measuring stick), is not denominated in a countries currency. So, I believe Gold becomes the means which currencies judge themselves against each other by instead of the USD and the USD loses an enormous amount of value. This value transfer sends gold up 35-60x imo. It has nothing to do with bitcoin. Bitcoin will become a means of wealth storage, efficient payments, etc but it won't end up on Cb balance sheets in the near future. I expect bitcoin to surpass gold's value when gold is at it's "peak" and I expect gold to exceed $50k an ounce. Bitcoin may make the stratospheric move before hand, during, or afterwards..so I own both and see them functioning alongside eachother in a fair global system to measure and exchange value. Hopefully that clears things up. |
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cypherdoc (OP)
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June 25, 2014, 05:14:46 PM |
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Any more miss-steps and the U.S may find themselves in a weimar situation as the USD gets jettisoned for gold.
i think we do see the world the same way. however this thread is filled with great discussion about why Bitcoin would be better than gold as a reserve currency (or at least backing for one). what specifically is your contention with Bitcoin? perhaps you can answer this 2 ways: first assume there are no security issues with Bitcoin, second assuming there may be, what they are. I have no contentions with bitcoin. Maybe you missed where I defended this accusation already. I believe bitcoin will succeed as the chosen protocol to carry out a variety of tasks. Payments, remittance, contracts, etc. I don't think central banks are going to immediately replace the value of their USD holdings with bitcoin though. A large vacuum is going to take place as value flows from CB books USD holdings to gold holdings. Gold is in position, bitcoin is not. The current financial system as we know it (dollar centric) is going to change to a system where the yard stick (aka value measuring stick), is not denominated in a countries currency. So, I believe Gold becomes the means which currencies judge themselves against each other by instead of the USD and the USD loses an enormous amount of value. This value transfer sends gold up 35-60x imo. It has nothing to do with bitcoin. Bitcoin will become a means of wealth storage, efficient payments, etc but it won't end up on Cb balance sheets in the near future. I expect bitcoin to surpass gold's value when gold is at it's "peak" and I expect gold to exceed $50k an ounce. Bitcoin may make the stratospheric move before hand, during, or afterwards..so I own both and see them functioning alongside eachother in a fair global system to measure and exchange value. Hopefully that clears things up. no accusations here. i understand where you're coming from completely. i was there once. however, i think going back to a gold standard would be a huge step backwards for all the reasons i, and others, have put forth in this thread. i won't take the time to reiterate all that's been said (it's exhausting) but i think there can only be one "winner" and i think we are seeing the transition occurring before our very eyes although most can't see. they think there will be one more huge leg up for gold. of course it's possible, but i don't think so. and it's b/c of the internet. guys like Peter Schiff is a great example. he rails against Bitcoin's intangibility but totally misses the point that his entire business and marketing model relies on the intangible internet digits that serve to enable his success. the fact that we have come so far in so short a time with broadband connectivity gives me hope that we will step forward into a better future of sound money rather than step backwards to gold. and this really has only come about in the last 10 yrs or so which is a big reason that gold bugs can't see it. i posted a great analysis of the costs of gold mining vs Bitcoin mining a few weeks back. all those lives lost is an unsustainable situation and it would be an immoral situation to accelerate that activity to make gold a reserve currency. |
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bitcoinsrus
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June 25, 2014, 05:28:18 PM
Last edit: June 25, 2014, 06:02:22 PM by bitcoinsrus |
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I know this comment may sound stupid, but what do you (cypher and FNG) think about a possible gold standard for bitcoin. I made a thread about this yesterday which didn't go over to well (my explanation threw most people off from my point).
Basically, what if instead of trading btc for fiat and using exchanges to price in currencies, what about something like
1 oz gold = 1 BTC. There would not be inflation to artificially rise the price etc.
Of course, this is probably not going to happen (hard to split gold into small amounts to do small trades) and people seem to want currencies to buy stuff. (I know about egold, liberty reserve, I know bitcoin is not like this but it would have some similarities)
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edit to cypher below this comment:
Yea I figured it would do more bad then good (hard to split gold) and people want fiat etc. I just wonder if a crypto coin that dealt exclusively in metals or something would succeed or not (or what would happen).
But bitcoin would not probably work (too many issues) [people not following etc]
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cypherdoc (OP)
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June 25, 2014, 05:54:40 PM |
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I know this comment may sound stupid, but what do you (cypher and FNG) think about a possible gold standard for bitcoin. I made a thread about this yesterday which didn't go over to well (my explanation threw most people off from my point).
Basically, what if instead of trading btc for fiat and using exchanges to price in currencies, what about something like
1 oz gold = 1 BTC. There would not be inflation to artificially rise the price etc.
Of course, this is probably not going to happen (hard to split gold into small amounts to do small trades) and people seem to want currencies to buy stuff. (I know about egold, liberty reserve, I know bitcoin is not like this but it would have some similarities)
why burden Bitcoin's seamless utility by weighing it down with gold? |
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cypherdoc (OP)
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June 25, 2014, 06:39:09 PM |
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Melbustus
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June 25, 2014, 08:17:35 PM |
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I know this comment may sound stupid, but what do you (cypher and FNG) think about a possible gold standard for bitcoin. I made a thread about this yesterday which didn't go over to well (my explanation threw most people off from my point).
Basically, what if instead of trading btc for fiat and using exchanges to price in currencies, what about something like
1 oz gold = 1 BTC. There would not be inflation to artificially rise the price etc.
Of course, this is probably not going to happen (hard to split gold into small amounts to do small trades) and people seem to want currencies to buy stuff. (I know about egold, liberty reserve, I know bitcoin is not like this but it would have some similarities)
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edit to cypher below this comment:
Yea I figured it would do more bad then good (hard to split gold) and people want fiat etc. I just wonder if a crypto coin that dealt exclusively in metals or something would succeed or not (or what would happen).
But bitcoin would not probably work (too many issues) [people not following etc]
Bitcoin *is* the scarce unit. It needs no backing. And if you "back" it with anything, you've introduced centralization (the entity that guarantees the backing), so it's no longer bitcoin. Think about why "backing" first came about... Essentially, it was a real pain to carry metal around, so people issued hard-to-counterfeit paper surrogates and guaranteed redeemability. The entire point of doing this was because the paper money was easily transportable and the gold was scarce. You need both to have a good, reliable, useful currency. Bitcoin is both natively. It sounds like bitcoin is even better than you currently realize it is. Ideal money for our times. Finally. |
Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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justusranvier
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June 25, 2014, 08:57:46 PM |
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Bitcoin *is* the scarce unit. It needs no backing. And if you "back" it with anything, you've introduced centralization counterparty risk (the entity that guarantees the backing), so it's no longer bitcoin. "Centralization" is a terrible word because it's sufficiently non-specific that people project all kinds of random meanings into it. Specificity is better for creating clarity. |
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Melbustus
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June 25, 2014, 09:04:43 PM |
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Bitcoin *is* the scarce unit. It needs no backing. And if you "back" it with anything, you've introduced centralization counterparty risk (the entity that guarantees the backing), so it's no longer bitcoin. "Centralization" is a terrible word because it's sufficiently non-specific that people project all kinds of random meanings into it. Specificity is better for creating clarity. Well, in this case it is indeed centralized counter-party risk, since I was assuming we were talking about a backing scheme that relied on a single guarantor of redeemability. |
Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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justusranvier
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June 25, 2014, 09:25:34 PM |
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It's not strictly necessary for "backing" to involve a single redeemer, but it always creates counterparty risk where none existed before.
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cypherdoc (OP)
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June 25, 2014, 11:35:46 PM |
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Melbustus
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June 26, 2014, 02:18:20 AM |
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Not bad, but not incredible, either. Barry's answer to why he's excited about bitcoin was actually disappointing, IMO. Enhancing payment systems in Africa and India is great, of course, but it misses the essence of what bitcoin is all about: ideal for our times, honest, money. Granted, those brief interviews where some ignorant host is interrupting you right and left must be incredibly off-putting and frustrating... |
Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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cypherdoc (OP)
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June 26, 2014, 02:48:52 AM |
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This ruling should be taken to its natural extension; eliminate the back doors that exist in the firmware of all cell phones. this is really critical given projected smart phone growth and their future use with Bitcoin. |
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Melbustus
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June 26, 2014, 04:29:06 AM |
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A little off-topic, but sometimes I get worried about some of the people working in the bitcoin space these days: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=637227.msg7520282#msg7520282That's apparently the CEO of https://www.hivewallet.com/Some quotes from his response to me in the above thread: We find arguments for artificial digital scarcity well-reasoned, but ultimately delusional.
and We at Hive agree that so-called crypto-currency is not money
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We of Earth love our novelty, and I in particular find the idea of artificial digital scarcity so painfully fucking boring that I'm going to spend my time making your world view more difficult to sustain, as both a career and a hobby.
...or am I just getting trolled here? (not kidding). |
Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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majamalu
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June 26, 2014, 06:26:00 AM |
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We at Hive agree that so-called crypto-currency is not money
...
We of Earth love our novelty, and I in particular find the idea of artificial digital scarcity so painfully fucking boring that I'm going to spend my time making your world view more difficult to sustain, as both a career and a hobby.
...or am I just getting trolled here? (not kidding). He's saying that a particular idea is not valid because it's boring. He is either a troll or exquisitely stupid. |
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smoothie
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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
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June 26, 2014, 06:46:18 AM |
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Melbustus
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June 26, 2014, 07:00:28 AM |
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Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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justusranvier
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June 26, 2014, 07:23:11 AM |
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...or am I just getting trolled here? (not kidding).
There's plenty of money available to anyone willing to sell their services to the highest bidder. Bitcoin threatens the interests of many entities, and those interests will have no difficulty whatsoever finding mercenaries to serve them for a buck. They are also pretty good at what they do: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ |
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