[XMR] Monero Speculation

[iCEBREAKER]

And now on HackerNews:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11871574

Peter Todd joining in the discussion...

The Todd just rekt ikken for being an ignorant hypocrite (*complains about "one-sided" article; proceeds to make one-sided criticism of XMR blockchain bloat problem that is orders of magnitude worse for Zcash*).

 

[obit33]

https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4nageo/on_fungibility_bitcoin_monero_and_why_zcash_is_a/

[Hueristic]

Need a dev in this thread?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11871574

[dEBRUYNE]

Need a dev in this thread?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11871574

Shen Noether (NobleSir) already responded. Zcash team (Ian Miers -> https://z.cash/team.html) should at least know their shit before they respond.

[dnaleor]

Need a dev in this thread?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11871574

Shen Noether (NobleSir) already responded. Zcash team (Ian Miers -> https://z.cash/team.html) should at least know their shit before they respond.

He should just have read my article...

[iCEBREAKER]

Need a dev in this thread?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11871574

Shen Noether (NobleSir) already responded. Zcash team (Ian Miers -> https://z.cash/team.html) should at least know their shit before they respond.

Oh sweet mother of the continuum, this is going to be good!   

*grabs chair, makes coffee, buys popcorn futures*

I love discussions so advanced I have only the faintest idea what is going on and no clue as to who is correct.   

For all of us in the peanut gallery, can someone (IE smooth/fluffy/gmax/The Todd) explain or provide linky explaining

-the impact of RingCT on blockchain growth/pruneability

-the impact of RingCT on where Monero falls in the anonymity set spectrum between good-enough CoinJoin (simplest thing that possibly works) and the supreme perfection of Zcash (Ultimate Anonymity^TM +/- toxic waste)?

Full disclosure: when I was figuring out how to spell "pruneability" I found this: http://radar.oreilly.com/2015/01/blockchain-scalability.html

Bonus question: Does the "sharding" approach used by ETH have any applicability to Monero and Zerocash's blockchain bloat problems?

[Hueristic]

Need a dev in this thread?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11871574

Shen Noether (NobleSir) already responded. Zcash team (Ian Miers -> https://z.cash/team.html) should at least know their shit before they respond.

He hadn't yet when I posted. I love to watch our Devs school fudders and outright shills lying with technobabble. .

[acdc]

In Ver's case, it's not his Bitcoin investment he's worried about... it's his Zcash investment.

I assume it's considerably more risky to invest in a community-driven project that you have no control over and can only hope the price increases. Compare that to investing in an already greatly hyped, for-profit project where you can sit back and collect 20% of the mining revenue. He makes money even if the price never moves.

Roger Ver isn't interested in tech that much, just his wallet IMO. XMR is a threat, so he doesn't want it to succeed, period.

[KLONE]

Dat BEAR trend will be smashed if this candle closes above the red line.

A typical monero expert :

fancy that, all this time & I never knew Klee was a dog!

[iCEBREAKER]

In Ver's case, it's not his Bitcoin investment he's worried about... it's his Zcash investment.

I assume it's considerably more risky to invest in a community-driven project that you have no control over and can only hope the price increases. Compare that to investing in an already greatly hyped, for-profit project where you can sit back and collect 20% of the mining revenue. He makes money even if the price never moves.

Roger Ver isn't interested in tech that much, just his wallet IMO. XMR is a threat, so he doesn't want it to succeed, period.

Monero is one of the most grassroots libertarian things that has ever existed.  So of course Professional Libertarians like Ver hate/ignore it.

They can't stand Monero's demonstrated organic growth and limitless, permissionless potential.

INB4 Zerocash rebrands to "Monero Classic."   

[GingerAle]

In Ver's case, it's not his Bitcoin investment he's worried about... it's his Zcash investment.

I assume it's considerably more risky to invest in a community-driven project that you have no control over and can only hope the price increases. Compare that to investing in an already greatly hyped, for-profit project where you can sit back and collect 20% of the mining revenue. He makes money even if the price never moves.

Roger Ver isn't interested in tech that much, just his wallet IMO. XMR is a threat, so he doesn't want it to succeed, period.

He could own 500k monero. We'll never know unless he publishes his viewkey, but even then he could've spent it all because viewkey doesn't reveal spending.

Meanwhile, I speculate there's some massive pumping going on right now for no good reason whatsoever. The volumes on those massive 5 minute candles are pretty close, and the second one was able to crash at half the height. I think someone's gotten good at playing the bots.

It'll be interesting when any of these currencies are actually used like money. Someday.

In the meantime, bananas.

[americanpegasus]

Roger Ver isn't interested in tech that much, just his wallet IMO. XMR is a threat, so he doesn't want it to succeed, period.

 
  
I don't think that's true.  Roger will see what Monero is in time.  Remember, most of us thought Bitcoin was dumb the first time we heard of it too.  And if he gets half as excited about Monero as he was/is about Bitcoin, that is a big win for the community.  Don't write anyone off - we are only what our genetics and experiences have allowed us to become.  Extend invitations and give people chances; sometimes they will surprise you.

[smooth]

-the impact of RingCT on blockchain growth/pruneability

We don't have exact figures but we think it will be reasonable close to the current situation. What happens is the added overhead from CT is offset by the reduced overhead from not needed to break up amounts into fixed denominations (123 = 100+20+3).

-the impact of RingCT on where Monero falls in the anonymity set spectrum between good-enough CoinJoin (simplest thing that possibly works) and the supreme perfection of Zcash (Ultimate Anonymity^TM +/- toxic waste)?

RingCT makes Monero more private. Not only are the amounts hidden better but the reduced number of inputs and outputs on typical transactions reduces other traceability issues (similar to Bitcoin where you can usually assume that all the inputs come from the same spender), and also improves the situation when it comes to output sizes that don't have a large set of outputs to mix from (outputs of size, for example, 8000 being much less common than 10).

Bonus question: Does the "sharding" approach used by ETH have any applicability to Monero and Zerocash's blockchain bloat problems?

Maybe? Hard to answer questions about something that doesn't exist yet.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Roger Ver isn't interested in tech that much, just his wallet IMO. XMR is a threat, so he doesn't want it to succeed, period.

 
  
I don't think that's true.  Roger will see what Monero is in time.  Remember, most of us thought Bitcoin was dumb the first time we heard of it too.  And if he gets half as excited about Monero as he was/is about Bitcoin, that is a big win for the community.  Don't write anyone off - we are only what our genetics and experiences have allowed us to become.  Extend invitations and give people chances; sometimes they will surprise you.

It doesn't look good for Ver. Either he's a really dumb investor who didn't research the tiny niche he bought into, or he's very aware of Monero's threat to Zcash and actively refuses to acknowledge its existence. You pick.

Also, don't forget the bitcoin.com puff piece on Zcash that straight-up lied about not being affiliated with the project (Ver owns bitcoin.com!). Sorry, but he's run out of chances.

[smoothie]

Roger Ver isn't interested in tech that much, just his wallet IMO. XMR is a threat, so he doesn't want it to succeed, period.

 
  
I don't think that's true.  Roger will see what Monero is in time.  Remember, most of us thought Bitcoin was dumb the first time we heard of it too.  And if he gets half as excited about Monero as he was/is about Bitcoin, that is a big win for the community.  Don't write anyone off - we are only what our genetics and experiences have allowed us to become.  Extend invitations and give people chances; sometimes they will surprise you.

It doesn't look good for Ver. Either he's a really dumb investor who didn't research the tiny niche he bought into, or he's very aware of Monero's threat to Zcash and actively refuses to acknowledge its existence. You pick.

Also, don't forget the bitcoin.com puff piece on Zcash that straight-up lied about not being affiliated with the project (Ver owns bitcoin.com!). Sorry, but he's run out of chances.

I vaguely remember this...do you have a link?

Seems shady that he would put up a statement in a piece about cash on his own website.

Then again this is the same guy who told people the mtgox was A-OK in 2013 just before it went bust.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Also, don't forget the bitcoin.com puff piece on Zcash that straight-up lied about not being affiliated with the project (Ver owns bitcoin.com!). Sorry, but he's run out of chances.

I vaguely remember this...do you have a link?

Seems shady that he would put up a statement in a piece about cash on his own website.

Then again this is the same guy who told people the mtgox was A-OK in 2013 just before it went bust.

https://news.bitcoin.com/meet-top-3-coins-cryptocurrency-anonymity-race/

It lists Zcash's investors but conveniently leaves Ver's name out. Then at the bottom of the article is a disclaimer that reads:

"Disclaimer: Bitcoin.com is not affiliated with any of the above-mentioned businesses."

[smooth]

Also, don't forget the bitcoin.com puff piece on Zcash that straight-up lied about not being affiliated with the project (Ver owns bitcoin.com!). Sorry, but he's run out of chances.

I vaguely remember this...do you have a link?

Seems shady that he would put up a statement in a piece about cash on his own website.

Then again this is the same guy who told people the mtgox was A-OK in 2013 just before it went bust.

https://news.bitcoin.com/meet-top-3-coins-cryptocurrency-anonymity-race/

It lists Zcash's investors but conveniently leaves Ver's name out. Then at the bottom of the article is a disclaimer that reads:

"Disclaimer: Bitcoin.com is not affiliated with any of the above-mentioned businesses."

It's even a little bit worse than that. The original Wired article they quoted included Ver's name but they took it out of the quote.

bitcoin.com:

The publication Wired details that investors such as Naval Ravikant and the Digital Currency Group’s Barry Silbert have invested over $700,000 USD into the startup.

Wired:

Those investors include Naval Ravikant, an investor in Twitter and Uber, Barry Silbert, the founder of startup equity-trading platform SecondMarket, and Roger Ver, a staunch libertarian who’s invested in bitcoin startups Blockchain.info and Bitpay, and who also bankrolled much of the legal defense of now-convicted Silk Road creator Ross Ulbricht

[kurious]

Back in top 10 Polo volume...

About time.

 

Why should we celebrate a place with only one metric ( volume ) ? and even that metric is nothing compared to past days?

Hmm... being no 11 on Polo was a little depressing, plus when volume picks up, at a (recent) low, it did indicate a rise in price on the way.

I think the price rise since has vindicated the observation I was making.  That said it was relief, rather then celebration.

[americanpegasus]

It doesn't look good for Ver..... Sorry, but he's run out of chances.

 
Not quite.  Let's see if he follows through.  If Jamie Lannister can find redemption, so can Ver. 
  
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4n5tlo/le36_roger_ver_and_erik_voorhees_scaling_debate/d435o3d

[dEBRUYNE]

There seems to be some vast shorting demand, see:

http://monerodice.pd.to/polo_snapshot_compare.php?id=185608&id2=188862

185608 = yesterday morning (~ 11:30 UTC)

188862 = today (~14:30 UTC)

Rates also up from ~0.0015% to ~0.0400%