SatoshiDICE.com - The World's Most Popular Bitcoin Game

[dooglus]

Why everyone say that payouts are immediate? Everytime I play SD it takes something like 10 to 30 minutes to get my money.

All bets used to be paid out instantly.  Then it was discovered that it's possible to cheat by double-spending your losing bets.  So now only some bets are paid out instantly.  How the site decides which ones to pay out immediately and which to delay is a trade secret (I asked Erik and that's what he told me) but it appears that big bets (over 2 BTC, maybe?) get delayed, and small bets don't.  Maybe it's a little more complex than that.

[Zaih]

Why everyone say that payouts are immediate? Everytime I play SD it takes something like 10 to 30 minutes to get my money.

All bets used to be paid out instantly.  Then it was discovered that it's possible to cheat by double-spending your losing bets.  So now only some bets are paid out instantly.  How the site decides which ones to pay out immediately and which to delay is a trade secret (I asked Erik and that's what he told me) but it appears that big bets (over 2 BTC, maybe?) get delayed, and small bets don't.  Maybe it's a little more complex than that.

He should make it so addresses that have bet their expected negative return can bet anything under that instantly.

Ie. If someone has wagered 1,000 Bitcoins. SD's expected profit from that is 18 BTC. That means any bet under 18 BTC will be instantly processed. This could effectively prevent double spenders as it wouldn't be worth their while to conduct this, since they'd only be breaking even in terms of EV. They'd also be instantly 'black listed' if a double spend was detected. Meaning that if they double spent, which would have to occur 1/2 times, they only have an expected profit of half their maximum instant wager, thus leaving them -EV overall.

I guess there would be issues whereby people could sell their addresses to double spenders if they get cleaned and such, but it'd be fairly easy to moderate I'd say.

[BITCOIN-PIZZA-DAY]

Why everyone say that payouts are immediate? Everytime I play SD it takes something like 10 to 30 minutes to get my money.

All bets used to be paid out instantly.  Then it was discovered that it's possible to cheat by double-spending your losing bets.  So now only some bets are paid out instantly.  How the site decides which ones to pay out immediately and which to delay is a trade secret (I asked Erik and that's what he told me) but it appears that big bets (over 2 BTC, maybe?) get delayed, and small bets don't.  Maybe it's a little more complex than that.

You can bet max. 2 BTC on 50% instant
You can bet 2 BTC+ on like 73%
0.03 Bet on 1.5% goes trough 0.1 Bet won't

I believe the max you can win instant is around 4 BTC.

[Carnth]

Why everyone say that payouts are immediate? Everytime I play SD it takes something like 10 to 30 minutes to get my money.

All bets used to be paid out instantly.

Yes, the good 'ol days.



From what I have found, your bet needs to meet a number of criteria in order for it to be paid/processed instantly.

All the bet inputs need to have X number of confirms.
The bet must include a transaction fee of X.
X has to be X or at least X.

X = secret sauce.

But seriously, try a bet of 1.0 BTC where there are only 1 or 2 inputs and both have had at least 6 confirms. Include a TX fee of .001
I don't think it matters which dice address you bet to.

If you get your bet processed right away, we will now know at least this works. Then we can try lower BTC/confirms/fees.

But, it probably won't matter in the long run because SatoshiDice can change their criteria whenever they want.

[krudkeeper]

There's plenty of other fish in the sea...

[Abu22]

Why everyone say that payouts are immediate? Everytime I play SD it takes something like 10 to 30 minutes to get my money.

All bets used to be paid out instantly.  Then it was discovered that it's possible to cheat by double-spending your losing bets.  So now only some bets are paid out instantly.  How the site decides which ones to pay out immediately and which to delay is a trade secret (I asked Erik and that's what he told me) but it appears that big bets (over 2 BTC, maybe?) get delayed, and small bets don't.  Maybe it's a little more complex than that.

That's concerning...As the saying goes...'Security through obscurity is no security at all'...The sites integrity shouldn't need to rely on some trade secret to avod the double spend attacks.

[dooglus]

That's concerning...As the saying goes...'Security through obscurity is no security at all'...The sites integrity shouldn't need to rely on some trade secret to avod the double spend attacks.

I guess it comes down to this:

Accepting zero-conf bets is always a risk - there's no way they can make it secure without insisting on a confirmation for every bet, but the players don't want that; they want the fun of instant betting.  Accepting small zero-conf bets is less of a risk than accepting big ones.  If they tell you exactly where the line is, you can make sure you're just the right side of the line.  If they keep moving the line then you can't.

[organofcorti]

That's concerning...As the saying goes...'Security through obscurity is no security at all'...The sites integrity shouldn't need to rely on some trade secret to avod the double spend attacks.

I guess it comes down to this:

Accepting zero-conf bets is always a risk - there's no way they can make it secure without insisting on a confirmation for every bet, but the players don't want that; they want the fun of instant betting.  Accepting small zero-conf bets is less of a risk than accepting big ones.  If they tell you exactly where the line is, you can make sure you're just the right side of the line.  If they keep moving the line then you can't.

I think that's what has made SatoshiDice so popular.

Immediate gratification is a large part of problem addictions, and delaying gratifications is often a large part of recovery. I think that the immediate feedback of the original  SatoshiDice system increased the addictiveness an otherwise fairly boring game, and is a large part of it's current popularity. If they ever completely get rid of 0conf tx then I expect their popularity to wane significantly - they do have a lot of competitors.

[rfisher1968]

2 bets with no result for at least 30 minutes. Something is not working???

[evoorhees]

2 bets with no result for at least 30 minutes. Something is not working???

Site was stuck for about 30 min but then resolved. Please PM me if anything didn't return.

[Dabs]

Mr. SatoshiDICE, how long before the secrets are revealed for the previous day? I just checked (it's 10 minutes past midnight of UTC) and 2013-05-31 is still not there.

BTW, I'm using your secrets for another game. Since you won't tell me your secret (otherwise I can cheat your game).

Incidentally, wouldn't it make more sense if the secrets are revealed in reverse chronological order, with the most recent one at the top?

*edit* Took about 2.5 hours and then I got your 2013-05-31 secret.

[dooglus]

I tried accessing the website last night and again this morning and saw:



I'm in Canada, and pretty far from the US border.

'whois' on my IP address tells me:

NetRange:       198.254.128.0 - 198.254.255.255

Hi!
This is a mistake which will be taken care of as soon as possible.
We have no plans to block Canadian IPs.

I'm still in the same IP block, still in Canada, and still blocked.

Any idea how long it will take to fix this?

[kano]

That's concerning...As the saying goes...'Security through obscurity is no security at all'...The sites integrity shouldn't need to rely on some trade secret to avod the double spend attacks.

I guess it comes down to this:

Accepting zero-conf bets is always a risk - there's no way they can make it secure without insisting on a confirmation for every bet, but the players don't want that; they want the fun of instant betting.  Accepting small zero-conf bets is less of a risk than accepting big ones.  If they tell you exactly where the line is, you can make sure you're just the right side of the line.  If they keep moving the line then you can't.

i.e. you didn't understand what Abu22 said

[krudkeeper]

I tried accessing the website last night and again this morning and saw:



I'm in Canada, and pretty far from the US border.

'whois' on my IP address tells me:

NetRange:       198.254.128.0 - 198.254.255.255

Hi!
This is a mistake which will be taken care of as soon as possible.
We have no plans to block Canadian IPs.

I'm still in the same IP block, still in Canada, and still blocked.

Any idea how long it will take to fix this?

Notice how the guy on their little banner looks like a commie and that the US flag in the background is upside-down? Seriously?!

[Professor James Moriarty]

 I have played a hand at blockchain , how long will it take before I can understand if I won or lost? I imagine if i win there will be money sent to me sometime soon I hope but how long does it take for sathoshidice to send your winnings to you? And how will I know if I lost?

[spike420211]

Notice how the guy on their little banner looks like a commie and that the US flag in the background is upside-down? Seriously?!

Chairman Barack

[willphase]

 I have played a hand at blockchain , how long will it take before I can understand if I won or lost? I imagine if i win there will be money sent to me sometime soon I hope but how long does it take for sathoshidice to send your winnings to you? And how will I know if I lost?

if it's less than 2 BTC then sdice normally pays out instantly - but blockchain.info doesn't show the payment TX until it's in a block - so just take the TX (long hash) and paste it into sdice website to see if you've won.  If it's more than 2 BTC then you have to wait for a block...

Will

[Professor James Moriarty]

 Yeah it was the minimum 0.01 , so I tried to locate my winnings at sdice website but I couldnt because it was niether on the recent nor the unconfirmed I decided to go to sleep rather than waiting , it turns out after 1.5 hours of my playing my winnings arrived , so if i want to check out if i won or lost i have to wait 1.5 hours? That sounds a wee bit crazy Where is the instant results in that

[evoorhees]

Notice how the guy on their little banner looks like a commie and that the US flag in the background is upside-down? Seriously?!

Chairman Barack

The upside-down flag is a symbol of national distress. It was intentional.

[evoorhees]

I tried accessing the website last night and again this morning and saw:



I'm in Canada, and pretty far from the US border.

'whois' on my IP address tells me:

NetRange:       198.254.128.0 - 198.254.255.255

Hi!
This is a mistake which will be taken care of as soon as possible.
We have no plans to block Canadian IPs.

I'm still in the same IP block, still in Canada, and still blocked.

Any idea how long it will take to fix this?

From the SD developer...

"The web server has a GeoIP database, but this can certainly have inaccuracies. I have updated the GeoIP database to the latest available. Visiting via VPN from Canada, it appears to work for me.

However, it depends on his [dooglus] specific ISP and whether the GeoIP database has their IP range accurately associated with Canada in the GeoIP database.

If this doesn't solve it for him, we could consider adding some special case rules, such as specifically allowing his IP address (or a range of addresses) through the check.

(Technically, I can't update the GeoIP database file itself, but I could add special-case code to our Terms of Service check.)"

Dooglus - do you have any suggestions for this issue? Any other canadians (or other non-US players) getting blocked?