Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"

[CoinCidental]

the most staunch supporters like BurtW and Bitcoinmax

staunch supporter? i think i've been pretty agnostic to be honest.

i've never said pirate's op is a ponzi, but have also never claimed that it isn't.

it doesnt look great that you have refused to identify yourself if you are second in command to  pirate and
some scam happens

"some people know who i am but id prefer not be named on this forum " doesnt exactly inspire much confidence ......

everyone seems to think you are running the biggest passthrough

[Vladimir]

operators of GLBSE will be sued personally over the pirate matter.[/b]

Would an SEC action count?  4:1 odds say not likel anything will be done, at least not before October.

 - http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=334

The timeframe is too short, give it more time and probabilities will start approaching 100%.

GLBSE isnt USD based.

FSA would be another option http://www.fsa.gov.uk/consumerinformation/scamsandswindles
good advice there as well

[memvola]

So are are operators of GLBSE by not performing trivial due diligence and allowing operations that are exhibiting all the signs of a ponzi scheme and their affiliates to list their "securities" on their trading platform.  The policy "you will not be allowed to be listed only if you tell me you are operating a ponzi" is not good enough for a financial service.

What's the point of a free stock exchange then? Let's not try to remedy stupidity with authority, we already have the almighty State for that. I will leave Bitcoin if this becomes the commonly accepted attitude (though I trust Nefario and other operators that it will not). It would have zero effect in reducing scams and only hamper honest business. Please accept that people will be able to do this, some people will occasionally get scammed and learn not to, and move on.

You keep thinking that I'm saying that I have proof that this is a ponzi. By definition, that is impossible.

No, it's not impossible "by definition". Technically you could have enough evidence showing that it's a ponzi.

[molecular]

So are are operators of GLBSE by not performing trivial due diligence and allowing operations that are exhibiting all the signs of a ponzi scheme and their affiliates to list their "securities" on their trading platform.  The policy "you will not be allowed to be listed only if you tell me you are operating a ponzi" is not good enough for a financial service.

What's the point of a free stock exchange then? Let's not try to remedy stupidity with authority, we already have the almighty State for that.

+1. Recently saw some dude on RT Capital Account, I think, talking about the problem that investors were given a false sense of security (by the SEC I think) and they should do their own due diligence before investing.

I put some money into BDT (says it collects money for running/developing bitdaytrade.com). Meni Rosenfeld is consulting the guy (Alberto). This built some trust with me (maybe it shouldn't have, but it has). Should BDT turn out to be a scam... tough luck for me, didn't do my homework, will eat up the loss without accusing nefario or Meni (how could I?) to have allowed some scam to be listed or being involved doing technical consulting for them respectively... that would be absurd.

I will leave Bitcoin if this becomes the commonly accepted attitude (though I trust Nefario and other operators that it will not). It would have zero effect in reducing scams and only hamper honest business. Please accept that people will be able to do this, some people will occasionally get scammed and learn not to, and move on.

I wouldn't go that far, personally. Some kind of legal/authoritative infrastructure being built to further regulate bitcoin-related businesses would go against some of my ideals, but it wouldn't keep me from using bitcoin. It doesn't render bitcoin unusable for other, less regulated markets/uses.

[Clipse]

operators of GLBSE will be sued personally over the pirate matter.[/b]

Would an SEC action count?  4:1 odds say not likel anything will be done, at least not before October.

 - http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=334

The timeframe is too short, give it more time and probabilities will start approaching 100%.

GLBSE isnt USD based.

FSA would be another option http://www.fsa.gov.uk/consumerinformation/scamsandswindles
good advice there as well

Same guys who 'regulate' the banks that got everyone in the current worldwide situation ? You sir are still horribly blinded by the mass media of swindling corrupt government bodies.

[finkleshnorts]

I will leave Bitcoin if this becomes the commonly accepted attitude

I wouldn't go that far, personally. Some kind of legal/authoritative infrastructure being built to further regulate bitcoin-related businesses would go against some of my ideals, but it wouldn't keep me from using bitcoin. It doesn't render bitcoin unusable for other, less regulated markets/uses.

+1, was thinking the same thing. The management of GLBSE is completely unrelated to why/whether I use bitcoin.

[Micon]

"If BCST fails, so does this" - this means the pass-through running knows it's a scam, but is willing to perpetuate it as long as possible making small % for himself and greatly benefiting the scammer.

"If BST fails, so does this" - this means the passthrough operator doesn't have evidence one way or another whether it's a scam or not but is willing to let individual lenders make up their own mind.

for your or not to come in:

- a guy named Pirate is the first person to run a legitimate investment program to return 3000%+ APR
- he has this amazing way to make BTC by using BTC.  Market arbitraging like a boss or whatever
- now he can make large amounts of BTC, already has large amounts of BTC (remember he is killing it at whatever he is doing that he can't tell you) but for some reason still needs new investors each week, wanting to share the huge bounty

You are in a massive state of denial to still be in on the fence.  It's Ponzi101 and you are the largest affiliate.  You are responsible for building it bigger.  Or not.

[finkleshnorts]

for your or not to come in:

- a guy named Pirate is the first person to run a legitimate investment program to return 3000%+ APR
- he has this amazing way to make BTC by using BTC.  Market arbitraging like a boss or whatever
- now he can make large amounts of BTC, already has large amounts of BTC (remember he is killing it at whatever he is doing that he can't tell you) but for some reason still needs new investors each week, wanting to share the huge bounty

You are in a massive state of denial to still be in on the fence.  It's Ponzi101 and you are the largest affiliate.  You are responsible for building it bigger.  Or not.

No, no, no.
If he didn't do it, someone else would have. He's located a demand in a market and he's making a buck, like all the PPT operators. Idk why I've been sticking up for these guys, maybe because your accusing them makes your cause look like a witch hunt when it shouldn't be. You're not going to scare away all the PPTs. People who want to give to Pirate will find away to do so. I'd run a PPT right now if I could and I wouldn't think twice about the ethics of it.
 
I'm sure there are far better analogies than this one off the top of my head... are syringe manufacturers in the wrong by making it easier for heroin addicts to shoot up?

[Shadow383]

the most staunch supporters like BurtW and Bitcoinmax

staunch supporter? i think i've been pretty agnostic to be honest.

i've never said pirate's op is a ponzi, but have also never claimed that it isn't.

If you wanted to be honest, you wouldn't dodge questions like "How large is your BS&T exposure?"


There's no reason why the operators of PPTs shouldn't be completely transparent.

[unclescrooge]

Please, anyone had made his/her points, can we move on?

I'm starting to wish pirate stop his business just so we can move on more productive attitudes/discussions.


And please, ponzi detractors, don't let the "I know better than others" attitude make you wish for a central authority to regulate bitcoin. The whole point of bitcoin is to get rid of those  central authorities (at least in monetary matters). Everyone has to assume the consequences of his/her acts, that's freedom. GLBSE or forum moderators aren't responsible for anyone investments in Pirate's business, whatever it is. I invested some coins in it because I think I know what pirate is doing. If it turns out to be  scam, I AM SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR MY LOSSES. Nefario isn't, bitcointalk isn't, just me.
Your attitude is exactely where central states step in to "correct our mistakes" because they know better, and we end up in an economy where so many parasites organize their legal racket at the expense of the people.

[Philj]

Please, anyone had made his/her points, can we move on?

I'm starting to wish pirate stop his business just so we can move on more productive attitudes/discussions.


And please, ponzi detractors, don't let the "I know better than others" attitude make you wish for a central authority to regulate bitcoin. The whole point of bitcoin is to get rid of those  central authorities (at least in monetary matters). Everyone has to assume the consequences of his/her acts, that's freedom. GLBSE or forum moderators aren't responsible for anyone investments in Pirate's business, whatever it is. I invested some coins in it because I think I know what pirate is doing. If it turns out to be  scam, I AM SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR MY LOSSES. Nefario isn't, bitcointalk isn't, just me.
Your attitude is exactely where central states step in to "correct our mistakes" because they know better, and we end up in an economy where so many parasites organize their legal racket at the expense of the people.

+1

[gene]

the most staunch supporters like BurtW and Bitcoinmax

staunch supporter? i think i've been pretty agnostic to be honest.

i've never said pirate's op is a ponzi, but have also never claimed that it isn't.

it doesnt look great that you have refused to identify yourself if you are second in command to  pirate and
some scam happens

"some people know who i am but id prefer not be named on this forum " doesnt exactly inspire much confidence ......

everyone seems to think you are running the biggest passthrough

None of it passes the smell test. These characters understand fully well what they are doing and are simply trying to hide.

[gene]

This:

Who needs a 51% attack when you can just make sure every newspaper article on bitcoin forever mentions the countless ponzi schemes and untold millions stolen from credulous fools?

It is clear that the repercussions will be substantial.

And now you've hit the nail on the head for why I care.

Thank you.  I will say that I should probably recuse myself from this debate at this point.  [mental pollution mercifully omitted]

Glad to see your concession.

Interesting. This point seems to make the con-artists wince.

[gene]

hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?

Good point. Are you Ian Grice?

domain name: PAYB.TC
registrar: Key-Systems GmbH
url: http://www.key-systems.net
status: ok
created date: 2011-06-02 00:00:00
updated date: 2012-08-10 10:32:30
expiration date: 2013-06-02 00:00:00
owner-contact: P-IIG25
owner-organization: Ian Grice
owner-name: Ian Grice
owner-street: 86 Monash Rd
owner-city: Brisbane
owner-zip: 4000
owner-country: AU
owner-phone: +61.414235463
owner-fax: +61.111111111
owner-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.net
admin-contact: P-IFG21
admin-organization: Ian Grice
admin-name: Ian Grice
admin-street: 86 Monash Rd
admin-city: Brisbane
admin-zip: 4000
admin-country: AU
admin-phone: +61.414235463
admin-fax: +61.111111111
admin-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.net
tech-contact: P-IMG21
tech-organization: Ian Grice
tech-name: Ian Grice
tech-street: 86 Monash Rd
tech-city: Brisbane
tech-zip: 4000
tech-country: AU
tech-phone: +61.414235463
tech-fax: +61.111111111
tech-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.net
billing-contact: P-TSB21
billing-organization: TLDs@RRPproxy.net Billing Department
billing-name: TLDs@RRPproxy.net Billing Department
billing-street: Im Oberen Werk 1
billing-city: St. Ingbert
billing-zip: 66386
billing-country: DE
billing-phone: +49.68949396870
billing-fax: +49.68949396871
billing-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.net
nameserver: ns1.nationalnet.com
nameserver: ns2.nationalnet.com

[grue]

hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?

Good point. Are you Ian Grice?

[whois dump]

you can tell he's using a proxy registrar, so he doesn't have to put his real name.

[gene]

hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?

Good point. Are you Ian Grice?

[whois dump]

you can tell he's using a proxy registrar, so he doesn't have to put his real name.

This makes the point then. He refuses to identify himself.

[Micon]

for your or not to come in:

- a guy named Pirate is the first person to run a legitimate investment program to return 3000%+ APR
- he has this amazing way to make BTC by using BTC.  Market arbitraging like a boss or whatever
- now he can make large amounts of BTC, already has large amounts of BTC (remember he is killing it at whatever he is doing that he can't tell you) but for some reason still needs new investors each week, wanting to share the huge bounty

You are in a massive state of denial to still be in on the fence.  It's Ponzi101 and you are the largest affiliate.  You are responsible for building it bigger.  Or not.

No, no, no.
If he didn't do it, someone else would have. He's located a demand in a market and he's making a buck, like all the PPT operators. Idk why I've been sticking up for these guys, maybe because your accusing them makes your cause look like a witch hunt when it shouldn't be. You're not going to scare away all the PPTs. People who want to give to Pirate will find away to do so. I'd run a PPT right now if I could and I wouldn't think twice about the ethics of it.
 
I'm sure there are far better analogies than this one off the top of my head... are syringe manufacturers in the wrong by making it easier for heroin addicts to shoot up?

1)  Shameful that you would run a PPT right now.

2)  when you allow scams to operate under "lending" the forum is giving credibility to them.   by not saying or doing anything is giving them credibility.  I mean, one of them is even stickied here!  talk about a ringing endorsement to a newbie user...

[miscreanity]

Micon, I'm not sure about this one. Let me know if you think it's a Ponzi.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Micon, I'm not sure about this one. Let me know if you think it's a Ponzi.

lol well played sir.

[Shadow383]

hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?

Good point. Are you Ian Grice?

[whois dump]

you can tell he's using a proxy registrar, so he doesn't have to put his real name.

This makes the point then. He refuses to identify himself.

you guys should seriously consider joining mensa.

Because sarcasm and insults are a total substitute for transparency and honesty...