Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network

[ohad]

OK, so I created a wallet at omniwallet.org. Do I just send my MSC-TauAgoras to the bitcoin address in the omniwallet? Once that is done, will my omniwallet then show the MSC-TauAgoras asset?

that's right

[ohad]

Let's talk Bitcoin https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-261-understanding-tauchains

[richwang01]

Where can I buy this coin?

[ohad]

Where can I buy this coin?

for now, in email ohad@idni.org
soon the coin will get into bittrex and poloniex

[ohad]

Token got into trade in Bittrex   https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-AGRS
Poloniex is next

[ohad]

Price of the intermediate tokens will stop going up (the weekly 2%) until further notice. For now the price will remain 0.000634 btc per token

[tranzactionezlive]

Would it be safe to extract from masterxchange straight to bittrex adress of AGRS ? I need a quick reply, thanks.

[ohad]

Would it be safe to extract from masterxchange straight to bittrex adress of AGRS ? I need a quick reply, thanks.

I don't see any exceptional risk.

[kjn311]

Any plans for artificial intelligence use cases like Siri on steroids? I'm imagining tau chains in a robot. I'm I way off here?

[ohad]

Any plans for artificial intelligence use cases like Siri on steroids? I'm imagining tau chains in a robot. I'm I way off here?

Indeed as someone who deals with artificial intelligence over the last years, I can't think of a more suitable platform for such than tau.

[kjn311]

Any plans for artificial intelligence use cases like Siri on steroids? I'm imagining tau chains in a robot. I'm I way off here?

Indeed as someone who deals with artificial intelligence over the last years, I can't think of a more suitable platform for such than tau.

Ok. Yea I was listening to the Let's Talk Bitcoin podcast and all I kept thinking about as you were describing Tau was A.I. Like some Skynet type ish and everything that was once only considered in science fiction will become real. Scary actually. Ohad you are becoming the real life Dr. Miles Bennet Dyson.

 /applaud

[tranzactionezlive]

It's been two days and the withdrawal on MasterXchange is still :

Withdrawal history
amount    fee    date    destination    status    
1000.00000000 msctau    17.00000000 msctau    2015-11-11 14:36:50   14NcWzussr4XKk4ZHv5Cq6PHzGHjg33zbc   pending

I wonder, if these tokens get "misplaced", can you track and re/charge me since the platform is not final and operational ?


I've sent them an e-mail yesterday but received no reply.

[ohad]

It's been two days and the withdrawal on MasterXchange is still :

Withdrawal history
amount    fee    date    destination    status    
1000.00000000 msctau    17.00000000 msctau    2015-11-11 14:36:50   14NcWzussr4XKk4ZHv5Cq6PHzGHjg33zbc   pending

I wonder, if these tokens get "misplaced", can you track and re/charge me since the platform is not final and operational ?


I've sent them an e-mail yesterday but received no reply.

I've heard from several people that masterXchange are being late in one or two days in withdrawals, beyond the promised two days. But they always received their coins. So I suggest waiting a few days more, and recalling that this time is the last time you'll have encounter their delays.

[tranzactionezlive]

It's been two days and the withdrawal on MasterXchange is still :

Withdrawal history
amount    fee    date    destination    status    
1000.00000000 msctau    17.00000000 msctau    2015-11-11 14:36:50   14NcWzussr4XKk4ZHv5Cq6PHzGHjg33zbc   pending

I wonder, if these tokens get "misplaced", can you track and re/charge me since the platform is not final and operational ?


I've sent them an e-mail yesterday but received no reply.

I've heard from several people that masterXchange are being late in one or two days in withdrawals, beyond the promised two days. But they always received their coins. So I suggest waiting a few days more, and recalling that this time is the last time you'll have encounter their delays.

It's what i'm hoping, i am however weary of the limit date of 15th november and what may happen if they decide to go offline before processing the withdrawal, hence my question.

[redfish64]

I had a dream about the regression theory in reverse.

In the dream, a sheep befriended me and magically teleported us to the end of universe. It was dark and empty.

“Heat death, baaa,” it bleated, “is the end of the universe. Your money is no good here. There is no energy to expend.. nothing can be accomplished no matter how much you want to give. Baaaa….”

The sheep then pulled out a watch it carried in its fur, looked at it for an instance and snapped it shut. The scene subtly changed, just slightly. “A moment before the last. Your money is no good here. In a moment it will be useless… if I take it now, I cannot spend it in the future, therefore it is useless now. Baaaaa.”

The sheep took out its watch, and again we went back a moment, and it repeated, “Baaaa, in moment your money will be useless. I won’t be able to spend your money in the future, therefore its useless now.”

And again and again, we did so, going back one moment in time, each time the sheep repeated the line. I was getting dizzy, so I said “Enough!”

It transported me back to the present, and said “All your kinds of money is useless one moment in the future, therefore it useless now!”

--

Is it possible that one day when there are automated agents in Tau, if I can prove something like "All money is worthless" to one of them, then I would be able to trade it a tiny sliver of computation time for all the wealth that it controls?

Could other bugs of logic similar to this exist in Tau?

[BitcoinForumator]

I have no idea how to value these coins. What do you people think about the current price?

[tobeaj2mer01]

I have no idea how to value these coins. What do you people think about the current price?

It's pretty low, when the beta launches, the price will go to moon.

[BitcoinForumator]

I have no idea how to value these coins. What do you people think about the current price?

It's pretty low, when the beta launches, the price will go to moon.

What is moon in your opinion? Man, I have a hard time understanding even what Bitcoin is capable of. But TauChain, that's a whole different world. If Bitcoin is chinese to an english speaking man, then TauChain is alien language.

[ohad]

I had a dream about the regression theory in reverse.

In the dream, a sheep befriended me and magically teleported us to the end of universe. It was dark and empty.

“Heat death, baaa,” it bleated, “is the end of the universe. Your money is no good here. There is no energy to expend.. nothing can be accomplished no matter how much you want to give. Baaaa….”

The sheep then pulled out a watch it carried in its fur, looked at it for an instance and snapped it shut. The scene subtly changed, just slightly. “A moment before the last. Your money is no good here. In a moment it will be useless… if I take it now, I cannot spend it in the future, therefore it is useless now. Baaaaa.”

The sheep took out its watch, and again we went back a moment, and it repeated, “Baaaa, in moment your money will be useless. I won’t be able to spend your money in the future, therefore its useless now.”

And again and again, we did so, going back one moment in time, each time the sheep repeated the line. I was getting dizzy, so I said “Enough!”

It transported me back to the present, and said “All your kinds of money is useless one moment in the future, therefore it useless now!”

--

Is it possible that one day when there are automated agents in Tau, if I can prove something like "All money is worthless" to one of them, then I would be able to trade it a tiny sliver of computation time for all the wealth that it controls?

Could other bugs of logic similar to this exist in Tau?

tau can help people make software meet their formal requirements. selecting the requirements themselves is an ethical question already

[klosure]

@HMC
Thanks for the excellent answer, that clears pretty much all my questions so far. I guess next step to understand better Tau is to get familiar with Idris and read Per Martin Lof's Type Theory (BTW for anyone else interested, there is a copy online there. AFAICT this book is out of print, so you will likely not find it in the normal distribution circuit). That's going to keep me busy for a while. I'll come back with more questions once I have digested the underlying theory.

@Ohad
I've been playing a bit with CWM lately, and I'm underwhelmed by how the negation as failure under a closed world assumption is being handled. Unless I've missed something, it seems that the only way to express a negation using basic CWM builtin semantics is to parse a N3 document into a formula with log:semantics and test for the absence of a specific clause in that formula using log:notIncludes. That seems to be confirmed by a few sources: Norman Walsh's blog and some chat he had with Dan Connolly (one of the authors of CWM). These sources are old but CWM hasn't evolved much since and I haven't been able to find any other way by looking at the documentation and test files. If that's still the case, it means that in CWM negation as failure can only be achieved on static documents included in a file and cannot be done on the general context of the reasoner which is always considered to be open world. So much for the so called "Closed World" machine Huh...

Anyway, since your code examples so far have been compatible with CWM, I was wondering how you planned to handle the negation as failure in Tau from a syntactic perspective. If you already have some idea of what the syntax will be, can you please give an example? I'm thinking of a simple case: build a rdf:List of all objects that do NOT have a specific property set. Let's say for instance all objects that are not a fish to continue the example in your (btw very convincing, congrats!) LetsTalkBitcoin interview.

I'm starting to build an application that I will port to Tau as soon as it's functional, and I need a way to express a negation in a closed world. I could move up the food chain to something like OWL and use set semantics to get my way but I'm concerned that this is like going in the wrong direction on the completeness-vs-consistency spectrum and is going to make it more painful to backport the application to Tau in the future. Can you recommand some existing RDF-flavored language that is close to the target in Tau, and that allows to derive negation as failure in a closed world kb without having to rely on static files to do so?

Of the course the ideal would be to start directly with Tau if the reasoner is already functional. But it would also need builtins.. Maybe I can help you with that if you already have a clear idea of what builtins will be available. If you are planning to adopt a subset of the CWM builtins among other things, that could be a good start.