Just buy a preorder from another company.
Then you donīt know if it will ROI in the beginning.
Later you will realise you lost much more then buying asicminer hardware.
Lulz so you are saying you'd lose less. Isn't the point to not actually lose at all? Keep the BTC and you won't lose BTC  Buy AM and you almost certainly will lose. Anyone who got a 10GH/s miner (of any brand) on the 14th of May will so far have made ~26.6BTC PPS expected. Hopefully no one paid 50BTC for them back then, no chance they'll make 50BTC ... keep doing your accounting in btc. 50 btc in may 2013 was as low as 80 a coin or 4000 usd. so if I took 4000 usd in may purchased 50btc and then purchased your 10th device holding on to every coin mined. I would now have 26 btc worth 210 each that is 5460 usd minus 4000 usd and you get 1460 usd. power cost would have been about 260 usd and your taxable profit is 1200 usd. usa tax law would say that item made a profit. now I agree if you have paid 4000 usd for coins in may held them until now they are worth about 10500 usd so your profit would have been 6500 usd. so both moves made money one move made less profit but still profit. We live in a world that most countries charge taxes base on the fiat of that country not BTC but BTC convert to the local fiat. These 2 btc 38gh cubes at todays rates are around 420 usd . I use usd since I pay taxes in usd. If I buy a cube and mine vs buy coins and hold I am subject to very different tax issues. So your use of btc to explain profit is very naive or since I know you are a very good programer slick bs to con people that don't understand the tax laws of their country very well. My point is AM gear has turned profit as defined by USA tax law. It has not done as well as hold BTC has in the same time period. So to say AM is a loser is wrong as many of us made good money on USB sticks and blades. I for one am looking forward to a 2 btc 38gh cube. but it needs to plug n play with bit minter's java client. They will use 120 watts vs 300 watts that the usb sticks use to mine the same gh. |
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id order some miner but i dont want to wait 6 months. is there any company that could send machine sooner?
asic miner friedcat delivers |
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I've had it for a month or so, no big loss as I never expected to make ROI anyway.
Frankenmint, sending you a PM....can get it in the mail tonight.
Ok I sent it to the address specified. Take pride in knowing that YOUR erupter will be utilized by someone else and may be on the photo of a newspaper, magazine, or facebook page someday. Be proud. I have 5 or 6 dead ones pm an offer I will mail them in a small flat rate priority mail box. |
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You will lose some coins when you switch due to the way pplns works. You could have half a day of shifts before your back to full payout again.
Thats one reason to wait a bit. But I have to ask don't you keep getting paid from btc Guild as the average drops . If I mine at bitminter for 24 hours in a row then my power goes out my payoffs slowly decrease even though I no longer am hashing. each hour they drop 1/24 until a day is up they they are at 0. so moving out of bit minter does not cost instantly it slow reduces. is not that true of btcGuild? |
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I am lot more comfortable with it being separate from the miners. I am going to wait a day to decide if I want a share of this. I know mining and I know selling gear on ebay.
I don't know as much about this as the above. Looks to be that we are more linked to the dealer after the fact then we are with mining gear. Boy this when I still want to be 20 something and single . rather then 50 something and married for 30 years. I think I am going to pass. Don't want to pass as I see this as the best upside investment I also see it as the biggest risk so far. Good luck to those that jump on it.
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This is an illegal offering of securities AND you want to operate in the US! Ha! Do you know what the remedy is for every single purchaser of these securities is? Rescission, not to mention the fines and penalties. So you're essentially giving your shareholders zero-cost options. Not smart.
Guys I have some background in taxes and this post may be correct. a btc may be a stock and or a security . selling a btc from an atm machine on usa soil may not be legal. We may need a brokers license to own it. I love the idea of doing this , but I am a bit leery of the fed laws that involve selling of stocks and or securities. I don't know if we can do this legally. I am not so sure I want it to be under the DZ coop umbrella.. I am pretty sure the other buys are fine as it is pooling cash to buy mining gear. I do not want the feds going after the gb 1 -gb 13 mining gear as a punishment for the atm. I used to do collections for the IRS back in the 80's you would be surprised what can be done under fed laws. |
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thank you and I am a little bit closer to break even.
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^probably good for those who managed to sell all of their shares when the price was up to 0.007-0.01 and then buy it again at the 0.0025 price point..
yup, sucks to those who didn't opt for the bitfunder and stay with direct shares at the first place
WELL bitfunders timing really hurt usa guys like me. I did a usd cash calc which for tax purposes would be correct I purchased 1250 shares at 771 usd back in June 2012. my return as of today's btc price need to be 3.73btc. to break even . this will be close to that when all is said and done. I think my gain will be a bit over 150 usd . Which would be 20 percent . |
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That's what I thought. Both pools are large enough to have the earnings level out. So unless one of the pools is really unlucky for a whole month, it doesn't really matter which pool is joined. But since we have a 1 out of 5 chance to win 550GH/s mining on Bitminter, I'd choose Bitminter.
no the chance is about 4 or 5 out of 233. that is about 1 or 46 or 1 of 50. still a very nice prize and not terrible odds. |
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The only thing I see as a problem is Bitminters lower luck, I've never seen bitminter hit 6 blocks in a row let alone the 20+ BTCguild does in 10 hours of shifts.
That's not luck, it's variance. You will hit less blocks on Bitminter, but get paid more per block - it all averages out. There is essentially no payout difference between the top 10 pools if you mine consistently. BTC Guild pays less per block, more frequently. Bitminter pays more per block, less frequently. I done long price calculations of the top 10 pools and they are all very close to the same. I have seen bitminter have great days and piss poor days as I have seen most pools have the same results. I really see no downside doing this from Nov 26 to Nov 30. I do see possible issues doing it from the 4th to the 30th ie bitminter has a long losing streak for 2 or 3 weeks. |
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...but we are a group and the down side is 25 days we don't win and our earnings are 2 or 3 btc less...
Why would we lose 2 or 3 btc? we may not lose anything. earning coins in pool a vs pool b involves luck/variance so pool a could earn more in a given period of time then pool b lets say our current pool BTC guild has a good day and bitminter has a bad day we were better off being in the first pool we make 2 coins in the second pool we make 1.8 coins since they had a bad day. So entering for 25 days in a row in bitminter our coop may earn less the 25 days in a row at btc guild. it could earn more. we can't tell for sure and we can only estimate if the loss or gain at either pool would be +5 or 0 or -5 over the next 25 days or even +1 or minus 1. But as diff gets worse and the time enter is shorter we would not have very much to lose or gain on the mining end. |
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The only thing I see as a problem is Bitminters lower luck, I've never seen bitminter hit 6 blocks in a row let alone the 20+ BTCguild does in 10 hours of shifts.
agreed which for a 26 day commitment for all of us I hesitate. For the group waiting til mid NOV or late NOV is less to lose. with the same prize at stake |
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I think this a great contest and a nice opportunity for us to gain a little extra. What is there to lose? A few minutes of income for someone to change a few parameters in the mining software to let it mine at bitminter? IMO, the prospect of winning the KnC miner outweighs the effort and almost-no-loss of joining the contest. That and, unless I've read it wrong, the fee at bitminter is only 1%, while it's 3% at btcguild. I vote yes with my 20 votes in R11. Anyway, I'm pointing my 120GH/s towards bitminter right now  . Might be competing with the groupbuy which I'm a part of :p. Edit: also, the later we join the contest, the less chance we have of creating a winning block. yeah but after the 16th diff will be more then 600 mill and our earnings are down a lot from the current 390 mill. so enter late ( Nov 16th ) at a minimum should be pretty much an easy choice to make. enter this week on the 5th is a bit tougher choice. if I had 4th in my pocket I would run on bitminter starting today and up to the 30th. but we are a group and the down side is 25 days we don't win and our earnings are 2 or 3 btc less. BTW we would not be sure if the earnings are less or more then if we stay with the current pool we would only be able to estimate with an unknown error margin. the reason is our shift of 4th from the current pool to bitminter would have an effect on both pools luck and/or variance. So we would only be able to do a calculation est of what should happen with normal luck and or variance. I used to gamble a lot all kinds of games of chance and I did a lot of game theory work for fun and /or profit. It is why I mentioned this contest as the cost to enter is 'free' or very little or you get paid to enter. the win is a knc jupiter . Lets say we wait til 2 diff adjustments pass late NOV diff is at 700 mill and we have 5th in the coop. at 700 mill diff 5th earns 3.587 btc so NOV 27 28 29 30 we enter normal luck we earn about 14.3 btc so if those 4 days earn 13.3 btc our bad luck is 1btc down (BTW we would never know for sure that staying in the other pool would have been better or worse since the act of moving the 5th from the original pool changes its luck) the worst downside of late enter is we don't win the contest and we lose 1 or 2 coins. the lesser downside of late enter is we don't win the contest and we earn the same amount of coins the least downside of late enter is we don't win the contest and we earn 1 or 2 coins extra. upside we win the contest and don't really give a shit about the coins mined since plus or minus 1 or 2 coins against the jupiter are really good. if you do this on the 16th of NOV with diff at 580 mill you have a bigger chance to win the contest but more earnings could be won or loss with a larger variance we could be plus, even or minus up to 5 coins. and lastly if we start in a day or two we have the biggest chance to win but the up or down of the coins could be as much as 7 or 8 coins. for me if I had the 4tb or 5tb why not do all 26 days left. but there are good arguments to wait until the adjustment on the 16th of nov or even wait until the last 2 or 3 days of the contest. Just food for thought. |
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I agree and since this is a 1 month contest we can wait until the next diff comes. It will be at 500 mill. lets say on the 5th of nov. then on the 16th of nov the diff is 650 mill.
we can steer our hash on the 16th since the contest runs until the 30th.
better yet the diff adjusts again on the 27th of nov. lets say it is at 800 mill we enter the last 3 days of the contest. our earning power will be far lower then so less to lose. we hash the last 3 days of the contest. In a sense it is less stressful and less risk.
since top prize is a knc miner jupiter with 550gh hash it would help the coop's hash rate or even just sell it for a 1 time pay off.
look realistic thinking is we won't win but cost is not that high to enter and by waiting for at least 1 diff move after tues diff move. ie join the 16 of nov our downside is lowered since we will have more back on our investments.
The pool pays nmc btc fees are not high variance is so so they have 5 to 10 percent of the network. auto payout can be set.
I do agree that we don't need to do it. We can wait a bit until we get more return .
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Allright dividend time! Total mined btc this week: 182.3538877. The last difficulty raise caused us to mine only 30 btc in two days as opposed to ~27-28 per day the days before that. As said last week we'll deduct the remaining one-time costs this week and next week. This week we'll deduct ~2/3rd of the remaining 72.50701867. Thats 47.50701867 btc (leaving 25btc for next week). Hosting cost for last week are 10.16129032 btc. We pay hosting costs each week up-front so this amount will change each week as btc/eur price changes. That leaves for dividends: 124.6855787. Since all shares have been destributed we will not use the old GB shares anymore but only the bitfunder ones (in numbers). In bitfunder terms there are 27*12400 = 334800 shares. Currently there are 69572 direct shares and 265228 shares on bitfunder. Dividend per share = 0.00037241 btc. Dividends will be payed in the coming few minutes. Cheers EDIT: latest list of direct shares, now complete with GB2 and GB3 direct shares: http://pastebin.com/7aEjmQqdSO we are nearing dividends. we earned 134 btc https://blockchain.info/address/1AddiCt8ghkH8zwPpcv8W8SxcQEoGTSJFSminus 25 btc = 109 btc minus 10 btc for power = 99 btc divide by 334800 shares = .000295698 I have 1250 shares so I would get close to .37 btc this week. the .00295698 a share is close but I would think it will be a little higher. we should earn a few more coins in the next 6 -12 hours. last week it was .0037241 a share. this buy has been okay run well and in terms of usd (which is how my tax return is done) it looks like it will turn a profit by years end. in terms of BTC it will take longer. thank you to the runners of this buy. bob and tyrion |
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figure they will get cheaper as production increases... i bought one The problem with your assumption is these guys are not the chip manufacturers. The reason Asicminer could keep dropping prices is because they made the chip also yeah these may never get to the correct price level. still I want one. should have it in a few days. |
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It is a month long contest so we can enter and leave at will during the month. basically you have to hit a block to win and the block has to have the lowest number.
it is strictly a numbers game more hash = better chance. contest runs until nov 30th
Verifiability: Hopefully your mining software will show if you have created a block (BitMinter client does). Your block will show with your user name in the block list. Click the height number for details. There is a link there to blockchain.info where you can see the hash value of the block both on the page and in the URL. The lowest hash value wins. Hash values are shown in hexadecimal. 0-9 is lower than A-F. A is lower than B. Pretty simple.
Current standings
Place Name Hash
1 bitmeme
00000000000000005451a0d7bada8789d075077477166a33b2ddac454daf3d1f
2 mralbi
000000000000000094d4610e3a7fc18637fdab6e1711bfb8e24e4c0c62215e8a
3 bibene
00000000000000014f2c8f4441ad96b5e87f22ae743a7befa20c24225671c744
4 EnderX
00000000000000018d20c1cad65b54aa535eaecf3da86d25b847a997b1ccd9f7
5 jassem
0000000000000001a6372a6b1324b9506c38e9feced83de46d12c4e8048258ab
6 heretik
0000000000000001b83c244e1fe407043ea68a8795b86dcdb5c7a8350691cf67
7 Hawk
0000000000000001f630517e750c08ee4616d9d7a361920a7ef242a9a015b893
8 bass1012dash
0000000000000002b79a70b5c114fdad0397c16e1c7097850b46fa8dc12f1b69
9 Fefox
0000000000000003486be706ecdaf61a21025b09b0b30a30cd22d2744c54a8de
10 Maze305
00000000000000040695e7f4f0fd11e95db8e69bee1b2c2f64d979b09784e487
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Okay I mined at only 1 mine www.bitminter.com two reasons I like the plug n play java client. I was unable to set up any other working mine due to time constraints and while I have a lot of skills writing code has always been tough on me. It also has become a good selling point for my ebay buyers as I cater to Asic miner usb stick buyers and help them set up on bitminer.com Bitminter.com has a 1 month contest the winner gets a free knc miner a very nice prize. I have 32gh out of 230th or about a 1 in 7000 chance of winning the prize. our current hash power is over 3tb going to be over 4tb by monday. if we hash at bitminter we could win a knc miner no cost to enter and the pool pays close to the pools we use now. if we point 4th at the pool we have a 4 in 230 chance of winning the contest at no cost . https://bitminter.com/mintrace this is the contest. I was a top 50 player on site for close to a year. but I am more into using this coop now. the contest runs the length of nov. and more hash power means a better chance of hashing a block. it would be nice to get a free knc miner. we don't have to make a commitment . I do realize that we have a good pool to mine in now but I like the idea of the shot at winning the miner. I am feeling lucky. |
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Well, we're a democratic co-op. You guys/gals let me know if you want me to open voting for this. I'm bummed about the delay too. I'll support whatever the majority of shareholders decide. It's your co-op, I'm just lucky enough to happen to run it.  I would bail. once a major delay happens the company turns out like bfl or avalon |
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