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841  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 09, 2014, 10:43:10 PM

The market potential is huge, but at them same time no platform has any proven history as well as stability. It is too premature to talk about network effect. The network effect will only start when you have the exchange running stable for at least 6 months with at least 10-15 real, tradable assets on it.

Someone making the asset exchange right 6 months from now could easily beat both NXT and XCP. So the door is still wide open and it is important for NXT to do it right first not that important to get to the market 1 or 2 weeks first.

What do you define as 'real' and 'tradable'? The asset exchange can only trade assets bound to the virtual world of NXT. That is, assets that depend upon NXT.

The other way round is not possible because NXT cannot control offchain actions.

all financial assets are just that papers backed by some valuable things. "real" here = "relevant", it starts to be something when nxt have 10-15 assets that serious people consider them relevant not some gimmicky labels.
842  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 09, 2014, 10:33:25 PM
Seems XCP is indirectly competing for the 1st spot, to be out buy Friday as one of their front end devs posted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=430998.msg5031563#msg5031563

First to market: network effect is very important especially in the wake of the mtgox fiasco, but I don't think a week's difference will make xcp come out on top, especially when we have a marketing budget to increase mindshare. The XCP strategy has been basically "we built it they ill come" until recently. They now have a marketing bounty, still nothing compared to NXT'S.

We r not competitors, IMO. XCP works with BTC, our AE works with NXT.

maybe not completely but for popularity and IPO-ing companies we most definitely are...these companies have to decide which platform they want to use to issue tokens which customers can investing in..And they are part of the seed to spur the demand for the platform currency.

The market potential is huge, but at them same time no platform has any proven history as well as stability. It is too premature to talk about network effect. The network effect will only start when you have the exchange running stable for at least 6 months with at least 10-15 real, tradable assets on it.

Someone making the asset exchange right 6 months from now could easily beat both NXT and XCP. So the door is still wide open and it is important for NXT to do it right first not that important to get to the market 1 or 2 weeks first. Between the two, I prefer NXT platform and 1 week to the market first makes no difference. I have some XCP too, but so far I have not even have time to have Bitcoin QT up and running.
843  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 09, 2014, 08:03:27 PM
Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks a lot for the update !

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?
If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?
Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me Smiley

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?
Is transparent forging going to be there ?

Keep up the good work !


The plan is for level 1 blockchain. Advanced features would be added later to the blockchain when we have a stable level 1 blockchain in place. So no 1000 TPS magic portion for now but there have been some discussions on parallel blockchain, reputation system etc.

Stakeholder list is updated to page 60. There will be an update on fundraising going forward after we are done digesting the development plan.
844  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] NEM -4 billion coins- Equal Shares for ALL - Registration thread (part 2) on: February 09, 2014, 01:59:05 AM
Hey I still haven't been added to the stock holder list yet I posted on page 52


here is my info again let me know if I need to do anything else thanks!!



Hey just sent my .06 BTC from blockchain at 1H7qrCMZWE9UeEDHyH7xz1e65xYAYZ3CF

Hash 8e112df29c20ec5c151d58091b8dd77832ce6c6f4ad21f6b23d6d0cb12ae4eff

Let the fun begin Smiley

Next update after we pass page 60. New update every 10 pages.
845  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 09, 2014, 01:34:07 AM
Maybe my logo looks simple, however I was tuning final render and testing animation for 12 hours today.

I didn't know that today is dead line. Hope you will like it! I think it could work as a 2D graphics too.


No deadline yet. It should be open until close to the launch.

846  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 09, 2014, 01:17:21 AM
Should we add these to the logo collection too? http://www.flickr.com/photos/116462858@N08/
I wish the guy who made those logos would fix the alignment and spacing of the lines.

To be honest, though, we probably should hire a designer to site down and give us a proper illustrator file that we can use for printing, etc. Design-by-committee (or community, in this case), will give you Android, not iPhone.

There are professional designer's samples in the mix. Can you recognize them?
847  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] NEM -4 billion coins- Equal Shares for ALL - Registration thread (part 2) on: February 08, 2014, 11:50:44 PM

We already said no money from an exchange. Firstly, you risk your transaction id stolen by someone else (how to prove that you own that transaction if you sent from a share account of an exchange ?); Secondly it falls under counter-sockpuppet measure and your money would be considered a donation.

Read the front page carefully even before you think about sending money in. Then read it again before you actually send the money. Thanks.


Hi Utopian, Sorry but I have read carefully 1st stake holders list conditions, and at that time there was nothing mentioned about danger of sending money from exchange - what I already did. Now when checking this thread I found your quoted post and began worrying if  I just throw oney for nothing.

Would you put this information in BOLD text on 1st page this thread, as many people may sent you money fron exchange and at the end they will find out to be under counter-sockpuppet measure, what I don't think it's fair.


After EDIT:
I mean it should have this size at least, and to be honest All conditions of valid applications supposed to be published in more clear why.
I know that you have to deal with many issues, but making things clear and obvious would simplify application process.

    
Quote
Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation. This measure has come into effect at page 81 (registration thread 1) and does not apply retroactively (it is in effect now). So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding.


 And honestly, I don't know why sending from exchange will fall under counter-sockpuppet measure - what a problem to generate another wallet under armory? Reason why I sent it from exchange is that I haven't got physical access to computer where it is stored - that's way I used exchange. Would you clarified validity of my application? Thanks.


edit after edit

Should I send as well screenshoot?  sorry for troubles

Pm me a screenshot of the withdrawal.
848  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 08, 2014, 10:47:44 PM
I know it's a lot of work, but from now on it should be PayPal only. From the people that I've tried to get into this, it's hard for them to understand the whole process of getting Bitcoin's, NXT. Even doing it through PayPal is hard for them. I'm willing to help them but I don't want to give them NXTs because I don't want it to look as if I'm creating multiple accounts. So I think PayPal, would be best to stop multiple accounts, since a person can only have one PayPal linked to their identity.

I tried to help a friend join through PayPal, but it seems that Utopianfuture is not doing that anymore.

I am still doing Paypal. I might have missed his pm though.
849  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 08, 2014, 10:12:18 PM
To me it's painful to stay with so many stakes, 15-20-150 stakes? then not distribute to family and friends. It is very sad to criticize the rich, and then get away with a lot of money.


I'm meeting friends. For now, I have five insured. They are willing to send ID.

I want to ensure stakes to my family and friends.

You need to have five detached house? NEM need some monitoring, if we want it to be equal.

And early investors, Would have to be well Analyzed, They have not put even a penny. Cry


We are looking for participants not investors. All of your friends who has litter desire to be involved in crypto could stay off this. 1 NEM stake would be more than 1 million NEM and that's a lot of NEM. You could just give 10K-20K to your friends to try out when we launch. If my calculation is right, we won't even need to touch the development fund until the blockchain is launched so there are no real need for passive investors.

About the issue of gradually raising fee and early participants, it is designed that way for a reason. First 10-15 pages participants are all unique veteran members of this forum and we are stronger with them than without. Our two main developers Theis and Jaguar join in at around pages 15-20 and now they are instrumental in pushing NEM's technical development forward. The fees are raised gradually because our movement is getting stronger with every added member. The fees are kept raising relatively small amount at the tail end because I don't want it to be too expensive for people to join in. But after the development plan is shown, you are getting a very good bargain to join in at that time and be at an equal status to early participants.  
850  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 08, 2014, 08:33:29 PM
@utopian: Are you saying you only want us to vote among the ones you just posted ? Shouldn't the community get a say in that ? I mean yes those are among the best but still...

On a side note some are partially or completely stolen from other logos so we'll have to dismiss those.

I just think they are nice but probably neglected because of their small sizes in the Flickz.

I also think their nice but I still think the community should be allowed to decide.
Can you see how many times a picture has been favorised by a person ? That would be an easy way to vote since you don't even need to be registered to favorise a pic Smiley
Everyone could just favorise the pictures they'd like to see elected as logo and the logo with the most "points" wins.

Sure. Community decides the logo. But generally website owners and app owners can choose the materials they want to use too .
851  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 08, 2014, 08:25:50 PM
@utopian: Are you saying you only want us to vote among the ones you just posted ? Shouldn't the community get a say in that ? I mean yes those are among the best but still...

On a side note some are partially or completely stolen from other logos so we'll have to dismiss those.

I just think they are nice but probably neglected because of their small sizes in the Flickz.
852  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 08, 2014, 08:01:08 PM

mvag nem by futureutopian, on Flickr


mvag nem 3 by futureutopian, on Flickr


mvag nem 2 by futureutopian, on Flickr
853  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 08, 2014, 07:48:56 PM
You're going to be running taint analysis on the stake buys and booting out multi-stakers? I bought more than a few shares myself but as instructed I used new accounts and sent from different addresses. Prior from what I just read, I understood this was acceptable. Or will it be retro-d in?

Will my money as well as others doing the same be honored or thrown put and will there be refunds issued? I just need to clear this up.

There will be refunds for big-multi-accounters. The goal is to distribute the stakes widely and evenly (but not perfectly even)

Taint analysis is taking it way too far.

NEM will be reduced to people arguing over each other's taint.


This is unfair to the earlier people who spent many hours creating new accounts (waiting 4 hours before they could post on each one).

The newer people now know that they have to mix their coins between wallets to hide the taint.

The earlier people were told it was fine to use new accounts with unique wallets, nobody said anything about taint analysis or having to send their coins through a mixer.

Applying taint analysis is very unfair to people who did not know mixing their coins was ANOTHER hassle they had to go through.


With taint analysis:
The guy who put in the effort and money to get 10 stakes, but did not send his coins through a mixer, gets a refund.
While the guy who put in the effort and money to get 10 stakes AND mixed his coins, gets to keep his 10 stakes.
How is that fair?


Utopianfuture said over and over he would not be applying new rules retroactively.
Please stick to your word and don't apply new rules like taint analysis retroactively.

There are no new rules.

4. How could you prevent multiple buy-ins ?

In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

NEM Flickr page http://www.flickr.com/photos/115246188@N06/ Take a closer look at the series of mvag NEM logo as they are smaller in size but they are pretty good with many variations.
854  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] NEM -4 billion coins- Equal Shares for ALL - Registration thread (part 2) on: February 08, 2014, 04:32:02 PM
Hello,
just sent you 600 NXT from 1157564055386181895 (bter.com)
Transaction ID: 276237

Hope this will be big!


We already said no money from an exchange. Firstly, you risk your transaction id stolen by someone else (how to prove that you own that transaction if you sent from a share account of an exchange ?); Secondly it falls under counter-sockpuppet measure and your money would be considered a donation.

Read the front page carefully even before you think about sending money in. Then read it again before you actually send the money. Thanks.

I´m  sorry. That was definitely my fault, but I´m quite new to this.
And now? Are the 600 NXT gone? Or could you send them back and I will send it again from a NXT wallet?

I would really appreciate it, if that would be possible somehow.

Pm me a screen shot of your transaction. For the record, i hope this should be the last time I do that.
855  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] NEM -4 billion coins- Equal Shares for ALL - Registration thread (part 2) on: February 08, 2014, 03:59:13 PM
Hello,
just sent you 600 NXT from 1157564055386181895 (bter.com)
Transaction ID: 276237

Hope this will be big!


We already said no money from an exchange. Firstly, you risk your transaction id stolen by someone else (how to prove that you own that transaction if you sent from a share account of an exchange ?); Secondly it falls under counter-sockpuppet measure and your money would be considered a donation.

Read the front page carefully even before you think about sending money in. Then read it again before you actually send the money. Thanks.
856  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 08, 2014, 03:53:49 PM
You're going to be running taint analysis on the stake buys and booting out multi-stakers? I bought more than a few shares myself but as instructed I used new accounts and sent from different addresses. Prior from what I just read, I understood this was acceptable. Or will it be retro-d in?

Will my money as well as others doing the same be honored or thrown put and will there be refunds issued? I just need to clear this up.

There will be refunds for big-multi-accounters. The goal is to distribute the stakes widely and evenly (but not perfectly even)
857  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 08, 2014, 03:46:06 PM
Has anyone talked to Graviton yet regarding selling NEM on dgex ?

he will do it when the time comes.
858  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 08, 2014, 02:54:23 PM
By the way Utopianfuture would you look at the forums we've made (http://nemcoin.userboard.net/) and the nemcoin.com (http://stylebox.wix.com/nemcoin) page model I PM'd you yesterday and let me know If we should develop them more or if you don't want us for some reason to do these pages. Please note that both the websites are under construction, and not complete, but that only the site outlook has been created. We'd gladly add more content but it seems to be a waste of time unless we get approval that these websites will become used!

It's taken already hours of work creating both sites and it's only reasonable that you give us an answer. And btw if you're not aware the website developers are shantell and me. We already have experience in creating online retailing websites and also websites for real-life businesses so we're confident that we'll manage this.

Thanks for making these two sites. It is looking good to me. I especially like the latter which could easily be the front page for nemcoin.org, nemcoin.info or nemcoin.com. I think that we will have our own forum when the community is big enough, probably when we officially launch the blockchain. I have no interest of running a forum and I assume core developers would prefer not doing it themselves so I think we would naturally migrate to a forum built by a NEM founder/ stakeholder as the time comes. But it is also an important decision because it could be the face of NEM and if the development team can't find a place they can trust to deliver NEM's messages, then we will make our own forum.

It is the same to nemcoin.com, nemcoi.org, nemcoin.info; I have bought all these three but I prefer not to run them or run only one so I will transfer them to a coupe of NEM founders/ stakeholders who are capable of running them and doing them justice. But these decisions would be decided later when the community already have sometimes together and we can make a better informed decisions on whom doing the best for NEM.

NEM community is still very young but I am overwhelmed by the supports from many people so far. The big day we are targeting is the launch of our blockchain, probably a few months in the future. NEM's model is different from other cryptos. All cryptos so far  launches the blockchain first and then develop community and build supporting sites and services and then continue growing. For POW coin, it works well since mining activities help distributing the coins gradually to many people as the coins grows. But the POW coins have some unsolvable problems such as the domination of mining industry, inefficient energy usage which makes the real cost of Bitcoin transaction is actually much higher than many people realizes. Bitcoin's model can still work only because the transaction fee is still funded by yearly coin inflation but it will not be the case in the future.

So I think we need to move to Proof of Stake coin which is a self-sufficient network which has a long-term sustainability. But the conventional launch does not work so well with a pure proof-of-stake coin as all the coin distribution has to be made at the launch. Hybird POW/ POS such as Peercoin could be a solution but they are  not escaping the influence of the existing mining industry so I have a more radical idea of "parallel development".  The core development progresses along side with community and user base building. Supporting sites, forum and brand awareness are also developed simultaneously. The goal is that we will start the blockchain with a huge user base and a relatively equal distribution. The blockchain could then take-off very fast after launch and go to a sustainable trajectory. I am lucky to have the helps of a very talented team of core developers so at this point I am confident that NEM would materialize and successfully create its own space in crypto industry. Jaguar will deliver a detail development plan this weekend and you will see why I can be that confident.

So that's my plan. Join in and contribute to NEM' success if you are a founder/ stakeholder. Naturally there would be some kind of imbalance between the technical development and promotional development at times, but my goal is to have both sides well developed when we launch NEM's blockchain.    
  
859  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] NEM -4 billion coins- Equal Shares for ALL - Registration thread (part 2) on: February 08, 2014, 01:48:29 PM
Quote
Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation. This measure has come into effect at page 81 (registration thread 1) and does not apply retroactively (it is in effect now). So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding.

I got two more people interessted but they have no BTC nor NXT.
So how can I invest for them if the above rule applies? This would mean if I transfer more from the same address (mine) these transactions will simply become donations.

1 stake gives at least 1 million NEM. That's a plenty to share if they just want to take a bird-eye view, invest and stay in the side line. If they want their own stakes, then at least get in and make their own accounts. We are looking for participants here not investors.

Well till now they've not been involved too much in crypto currencies more like passive reading etc.
So I've suggested them NEM as an opportunity which they should grab to become active in pushing a new coin. Wink

K so I'll ask them to create each one account on bitcointalk and I'll then transfer the fee for them naming their accounts?

Unless someone is willing to be actively involved in the scene, I would not encourage them to join in. Because 1 stake is a lot of NEM, you could just give them 10K, 20K later to try out.  

One dude is definitely looking to be actively involved - the other was following the eMunie development and their upcoming IPO he's more like 50:50 if he should do anything.

Then making their own accounts/ wallet and sending the funds in is the right way. You could send him the fund too, but limit it to 1-2 times because we would do taint analysis later on to reduce the instances of one person moving the fund around to claim many stakes.
860  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] NEM -4 billion coins- Equal Shares for ALL - Registration thread (part 2) on: February 08, 2014, 01:29:29 PM
Quote
Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation. This measure has come into effect at page 81 (registration thread 1) and does not apply retroactively (it is in effect now). So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding.

I got two more people interessted but they have no BTC nor NXT.
So how can I invest for them if the above rule applies? This would mean if I transfer more from the same address (mine) these transactions will simply become donations.

1 stake gives at least 1 million NEM. That's a plenty to share if they just want to take a bird-eye view, invest and stay in the side line. If they want their own stakes, then at least get in and make their own accounts. We are looking for participants here not investors.

Well till now they've not been involved too much in crypto currencies more like passive reading etc.
So I've suggested them NEM as an opportunity which they should grab to become active in pushing a new coin. Wink

K so I'll ask them to create each one account on bitcointalk and I'll then transfer the fee for them naming their accounts?

Unless someone is willing to be actively involved in the scene, I would not encourage them to join in. Because 1 stake is a lot of NEM, you could just give them 10K, 20K later to try out.  
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