Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[charleshoskinson]

I would tell them exactly the same thing I'd tell people that sold their BTC for USD last year and have now also "lost" 3000 dollars. At that time, they valued their BTC at that rate or they would have held onto it.

This is about right:

[chanson]

I would tell them exactly the same thing I'd tell people that sold their BTC for USD last year and have now also "lost" 3000 dollars. At that time, they valued their BTC at that rate or they would have held onto it.

This is about right:
sockpuppets-love-to-get-fisted.jpg

What would you tell people that sold their BTC for USD last year and have missed out?

[charleshoskinson]

They made a choice at the time and had to suffer, but it was a personal choice. When I tell you I'm going to do something next month and you believe me, then you assume you have to wait a month. BFL continuously convinced the BTC preorders to hold on just a little longer thus they cannot be expected to make a fair decision.

[Xian01]

Everyone could and should have easily known that they were making a purchase at the research and development stage before ordering.

 Wrong. It was never, EVER, sold or represented as a Research and Development product.

[charleshoskinson]

 Wrong. It was never, EVER, sold or represented as a Research and Development product.

He's a sockpuppet or a troll. Defending BFL at this stage is beyond possible. Notice Gavin made a nice statement about BFL's delay and then suddenly this happened:

Got a ButterflyLabs ASIC doo-hickey. PITA to find/setup pool/software/etc, but it is now hashing away at 5.2 GigaHash @ 35 watts

I wonder when he preordered....https://twitter.com/gavinandresen

[cokeman0]

Yea, lets see, if they will ever ship...

[Xian01]

Personally, it looks to me that they are close to shipping and all the other ASIC stuff out there is lower performance, even less existent, or extremely more expensive.

 They have been close to shipping for the last 5 months. ASICMiner or Avalon products are not less existent. They are expensive because they are available today, not cheap at the promise of having it at some unknown future date.

[chanson]

They made a choice at the time and had to suffer, but it was a personal choice. When I tell you I'm going to do something next month and you believe me, then you assume you have to wait a month. BFL continuously convinced the BTC preorders to hold on just a little longer thus they cannot be expected to make a fair decision.

Let's cut this to the bone now.

• If you wanted your device in September, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).
• If you wanted your device in October, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).
• If you wanted your device in November, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).
• If you wanted your device in December, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).
• If you wanted your device in January, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).

If you held for this long, and don't have a plan or the ability to evaluate your options, you're just foolish. If you are looking at a miner as an investment and you do not have your own understanding of when BTC or BFL is a better investment, you are not doing it right and you'd be better off playing the bingo with the seniors.

He's a sockpuppet or a troll.

What do you mean by this? I assume applying labels indicates that you are assigning traits to my responses. I'm new to bitcointalk, but the usual traits for sockpuppets and trolls is to not engage in substantive discussion. Perhaps you're frustrated that I deliberately ignore your cursing and name calling and baiting. Or perhaps your theory of mind assigns sees motivations reflected in others.

Personally, it looks to me that they are close to shipping and all the other ASIC stuff out there is lower performance, even less existent, or extremely more expensive.

They have been close to shipping for the last 5 months. ASICMiner or Avalon products are not less existent. They are expensive because they are available today, not cheap at the promise of having it at some unknown future date.

I think you misparsed my sentence ("or" ~= "and"). If you feel ASICminer or Avalon products are better investments, take your refund and buy there. That way BFL can get you again. I've been analyzing and reanalyzing this for a while to decide whether it's time to jump the BFL ship. I don't think the numbers work. None of them have anything you can actually buy right now (except for those joke USB eruptors money pits) and Avalon has successfully used batch #1 to sucker people into buying the increasingly delayed batchs #2, #3 and inferior chips they don't have in hand.

[teeone]

They have shipped 5 GH/s Jalapenos...if you ordered in June 2012 lol

[kevindeangelis]

They have shipped 5 GH/s Jalapenos...if you ordered in June 2012 lol

lol ... oh my ...

[Xian01]

None of them have anything you can actually buy right now (except for those joke USB eruptors money pits) and Avalon has successfully used batch #1 to sucker people into buying the increasingly delayed batchs #2, #3 and inferior chips they don't have in hand.

 The ASICMiner team also makes their 10-12GHs blades available for purchase in addition to their USB sticks.

 Avalon are certainly no where near close to walking on water, but to call their chips inferior is subjective. Yes they hash at lower rates compared to ASICMiner or BFL. Beyond that, I'm not sure what your point is. They are out in people's hands hashing today, and Avalon is working towards refining their production process.

[jelin1984]

No butterfly is not scam only very low low low low speed and delivered

[Lisinopril]

No butterfly is not scam only very low low low low speed and delivered

At some point though, the low speed end up being a form of scam

[DMTechie]

Ordered (2) 60 g/h units from BFL in February... wonder when I'll be seeing them!

Keeping my fingers crossed!
 

[werauchimmer]

If I'd keep my fingers crossed, they'd probably be stuck together by now. :-)

[Richy_T]

First, I didn't call TESLA a scam. How about you stop taking what I say out of context.

Where did he say you called Tesla a scam?

[Richy_T]

Riight Charlie... post a picture of you and a celebrity at an event with a bunch of people around and suddenly "Elon Musk is a friend of mine!" ... well hell, by that token, Penn Jillette, Jack McDevitt, and Roger Waters are close personal friends of mine!  Thanks!

You know when you put quote marks around something, it's supposed to indicate that you're quoting something, right? As in actually repeating verbatim the words that somebody used?

[Exoskeleton]

First, I didn't call TESLA a scam. How about you stop taking what I say out of context.

Where did he say you called Tesla a scam?

Right here he said it.

But, at this point, with what people are trying to use to determine a scam, well you may as well call TESLA motors is a scam as well since they're a new company and have only released one shippment of their electric sports car and have the possibility of taking off with all of the pre-order money.

He is implying that if BFL is a scam, then that makes Tesla a scam as well. This could not be more wrong. They have shipped one thousand times more cars (which are one thousand times harder to make) than BFL has shipped ASIC units.

While his comment does not implicitly state that Tesla is a scam he directly implies it. We can draw on semantics to argue here, but I think the result is clear to everyone who can think for themselves and has access to the facts. Tesla is nothing like BFL. Don't drag Tesla into this.

[puntoMX]

No butterfly is not scam only very low low low low speed and delivered

If they ever ship, there will be a better alternative.

I'll keep it with my videocards and FPGA boards (not from BFL)...

[darksun22]

I myself was VERY excited about those BFL SC things (http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/), but it sounded too good to be true. I was one step before pre-ordering the Mini Rig 'SC' for just $30k, which could deliver 1TH/s (update -> 1.5 TH/s according to the website now!). You know what? Bullshit.

Is butterfly labs mining with those ASICs at the moment? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110290.0)
Hell no! Do you see some huge raise in hashing power? No.
Would it be beneficial to mine on their own devices? Hell yes! More than just selling them.

If circumstantial evidence isn't enough, try simple business logic.  The price is set at $149 for a 3500MH/s chip. At current prices, they would make $149 after about 10.8 days of mining!  So why doesn't Butterfly Labs just run them for 10.8 days instead of selling them?  Then they'd have $149 and the chips lol.  I mean seriously, read those last 2 sentences again, people.  You think they're not mining with them?  I can't be the only one that realizes this.  From a business perspective, if you had an investment that would pay off 200% in a month and you sell it off instead, you're a crazy person.

You know the true reason why they are not mining with them? They can't. They don't have them.

But they have already proven legit! They fullfiled the orders and delivered FPGAs!
Sure they have. Gained your trust. And will take them back. And you will pay even more. You will loose your working FPGAs and also money. Huge money.

Trade in terms: Qualifying trade in for upgrades can be either an older generation Mini Rig or 25 older generation Singles. Once your new rig is ready for delivery (currently scheduled for November), you'll be notified to ship your trade in units to us. Upon receipt we'll release your new Mini Rig SC for shipment to you.

They still could have runned before..
They could, but why would they? Establish trust. Then run away.
They could have stolen $1M.

Now they have $30M and the hardware. Many of you fell for it.

Total Orders (By last seen)        7678
   
Orders Tracked         227
Trade-In Orders         66
   
Units Sold   
   
Jalapeno SC            225
Single SC               231
Mini Rig SC               21
   
Extended TH   
   
Jalepeno SC       0.7875
Single SC             9.24
Mini Rig SC               21
   
Grand Total of   31.0275

I still trust them.
Really? What about that the CEO is a fraduster, sentenced to 3 years in prison and is currently released and violating the terms?

September 15, 2010

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. SONNY VLEISIDES

...
The defendant is hereby placed on supervised release, effective immediately, for a term of three years under the following terms and conditions:
...
The defendant shall not engage, as whole or partial owner, employee or otherwise, in any business involving loan programs, gambling or gaming activities, telemarketing activities, investment programs or any other business involving the solicitation of funds or cold-calls to customers without the express approval of the Probation Officer prior to engagement in such employment.

As always, I feel terribly sorry for all you guys.

If anyone ever sells you anything for YOU to make money with instead of them keeping it and getting rich themselves you know something is up.  Just someone taking advantage of people not in the know.