Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[chanson]

Well, this is the reality: so far BFL easily refunds your order and lets anyone easily walk away whole at any time

What about the people who paid in bitcoins and would lose over 3000 dollars getting a refund on a 5 GH unit? What the fuck do you have to say to them? You're a tool man.

I would tell them exactly the same thing I'd tell people that sold their BTC for USD last year and have now also "lost" 3000 dollars. At that time, they valued their BTC at that rate or they would have held onto it.

For all anyone knows, BTC could crash again and they will have made USD selling their orders.

They made a rational choice when they ordered and stayed because they were told over and over again that it's shipping soon. While they watched the bitcoin price skyrocket and the sudden sadness of forever losing their money. Tell me, what is BFL's stellar customer service going to do about them?

Give them back the entire amount of USD they received?

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[charleshoskinson]

I would tell them exactly the same thing I'd tell people that sold their BTC for USD last year and have now also "lost" 3000 dollars. At that time, they valued their BTC at that rate or they would have held onto it.

This is about right:

[chanson]

I would tell them exactly the same thing I'd tell people that sold their BTC for USD last year and have now also "lost" 3000 dollars. At that time, they valued their BTC at that rate or they would have held onto it.

This is about right:
sockpuppets-love-to-get-fisted.jpg

What would you tell people that sold their BTC for USD last year and have missed out?

[charleshoskinson]

They made a choice at the time and had to suffer, but it was a personal choice. When I tell you I'm going to do something next month and you believe me, then you assume you have to wait a month. BFL continuously convinced the BTC preorders to hold on just a little longer thus they cannot be expected to make a fair decision.

[Xian01]

Everyone could and should have easily known that they were making a purchase at the research and development stage before ordering.

 Wrong. It was never, EVER, sold or represented as a Research and Development product.

[charleshoskinson]

 Wrong. It was never, EVER, sold or represented as a Research and Development product.

He's a sockpuppet or a troll. Defending BFL at this stage is beyond possible. Notice Gavin made a nice statement about BFL's delay and then suddenly this happened:

Got a ButterflyLabs ASIC doo-hickey. PITA to find/setup pool/software/etc, but it is now hashing away at 5.2 GigaHash @ 35 watts

I wonder when he preordered....https://twitter.com/gavinandresen

[cokeman0]

Yea, lets see, if they will ever ship...

[Xian01]

Personally, it looks to me that they are close to shipping and all the other ASIC stuff out there is lower performance, even less existent, or extremely more expensive.

 They have been close to shipping for the last 5 months. ASICMiner or Avalon products are not less existent. They are expensive because they are available today, not cheap at the promise of having it at some unknown future date.

[chanson]

They made a choice at the time and had to suffer, but it was a personal choice. When I tell you I'm going to do something next month and you believe me, then you assume you have to wait a month. BFL continuously convinced the BTC preorders to hold on just a little longer thus they cannot be expected to make a fair decision.

Let's cut this to the bone now.

• If you wanted your device in September, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).
• If you wanted your device in October, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).
• If you wanted your device in November, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).
• If you wanted your device in December, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).
• If you wanted your device in January, and did not receive it or were unsatisfied with BFL, you could have refunded then and put it back into BTC (and made out well).

If you held for this long, and don't have a plan or the ability to evaluate your options, you're just foolish. If you are looking at a miner as an investment and you do not have your own understanding of when BTC or BFL is a better investment, you are not doing it right and you'd be better off playing the bingo with the seniors.

He's a sockpuppet or a troll.

What do you mean by this? I assume applying labels indicates that you are assigning traits to my responses. I'm new to bitcointalk, but the usual traits for sockpuppets and trolls is to not engage in substantive discussion. Perhaps you're frustrated that I deliberately ignore your cursing and name calling and baiting. Or perhaps your theory of mind assigns sees motivations reflected in others.

Personally, it looks to me that they are close to shipping and all the other ASIC stuff out there is lower performance, even less existent, or extremely more expensive.

They have been close to shipping for the last 5 months. ASICMiner or Avalon products are not less existent. They are expensive because they are available today, not cheap at the promise of having it at some unknown future date.

I think you misparsed my sentence ("or" ~= "and"). If you feel ASICminer or Avalon products are better investments, take your refund and buy there. That way BFL can get you again. I've been analyzing and reanalyzing this for a while to decide whether it's time to jump the BFL ship. I don't think the numbers work. None of them have anything you can actually buy right now (except for those joke USB eruptors money pits) and Avalon has successfully used batch #1 to sucker people into buying the increasingly delayed batchs #2, #3 and inferior chips they don't have in hand.

[teeone]

They have shipped 5 GH/s Jalapenos...if you ordered in June 2012 lol

[kevindeangelis]

They have shipped 5 GH/s Jalapenos...if you ordered in June 2012 lol

lol ... oh my ...

[Xian01]

None of them have anything you can actually buy right now (except for those joke USB eruptors money pits) and Avalon has successfully used batch #1 to sucker people into buying the increasingly delayed batchs #2, #3 and inferior chips they don't have in hand.

 The ASICMiner team also makes their 10-12GHs blades available for purchase in addition to their USB sticks.

 Avalon are certainly no where near close to walking on water, but to call their chips inferior is subjective. Yes they hash at lower rates compared to ASICMiner or BFL. Beyond that, I'm not sure what your point is. They are out in people's hands hashing today, and Avalon is working towards refining their production process.

[jelin1984]

No butterfly is not scam only very low low low low speed and delivered

[Lisinopril]

No butterfly is not scam only very low low low low speed and delivered

At some point though, the low speed end up being a form of scam

[DMTechie]

Ordered (2) 60 g/h units from BFL in February... wonder when I'll be seeing them!

Keeping my fingers crossed!
 

[werauchimmer]

If I'd keep my fingers crossed, they'd probably be stuck together by now. :-)

[Richy_T]

First, I didn't call TESLA a scam. How about you stop taking what I say out of context.

Where did he say you called Tesla a scam?

[Richy_T]

Riight Charlie... post a picture of you and a celebrity at an event with a bunch of people around and suddenly "Elon Musk is a friend of mine!" ... well hell, by that token, Penn Jillette, Jack McDevitt, and Roger Waters are close personal friends of mine!  Thanks!

You know when you put quote marks around something, it's supposed to indicate that you're quoting something, right? As in actually repeating verbatim the words that somebody used?

[Exoskeleton]

First, I didn't call TESLA a scam. How about you stop taking what I say out of context.

Where did he say you called Tesla a scam?

Right here he said it.

But, at this point, with what people are trying to use to determine a scam, well you may as well call TESLA motors is a scam as well since they're a new company and have only released one shippment of their electric sports car and have the possibility of taking off with all of the pre-order money.

He is implying that if BFL is a scam, then that makes Tesla a scam as well. This could not be more wrong. They have shipped one thousand times more cars (which are one thousand times harder to make) than BFL has shipped ASIC units.

While his comment does not implicitly state that Tesla is a scam he directly implies it. We can draw on semantics to argue here, but I think the result is clear to everyone who can think for themselves and has access to the facts. Tesla is nothing like BFL. Don't drag Tesla into this.

[puntoMX]

No butterfly is not scam only very low low low low speed and delivered

If they ever ship, there will be a better alternative.

I'll keep it with my videocards and FPGA boards (not from BFL)...