Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[bassclef]

If I give BFL my money then I expect a product that I have paid for. I don't really care much what are they doing with my money as long as I see that I'll eventualy got what I paid for.

This is part of the problem. People throw money at this company with no apparent care of how their business is run, as long as they eventually get a product. How long is "eventually" supposed to be? That logic doesn't really hold up if you never receive it, or it's worthless to mine with when you do. A cursory glance at day-to-day operations over there indicates that they are wasting (or embezzling) more of your money rather than using it to develop a product. They don't even have properly working prototypes for most of their products after ONE YEAR.

More importantly, all customers, past present & future, should take an interest in the man behind BFL, Sonny Vleisedes, who is a convicted felon.

Also look up Sonny's father, James Ray Houston (aka The Sliver King), failed crooked politician and creator of the great Laissez Faire City, a Costa Rican long con that eventually failed, but not before he embezzled away mountains of cash.

[Exoskeleton]

does anyone have an approximate idea of how many orders they have taken?

+60,000

Over 50,000 active orders, and growing. With an average order of $2,000 or more.

Thats about $100,000,000. 

Just think about that one. You could outsource 5 teams of experts to make you 10 product lines in half the time it took BFL to do one. Where did this money go? One day when accounting has to open the books for whatever reason I will be interested to see.

[lemonys]

This whole thread can be summed up as Caveat Emptor.

(Buyer Beware)

[oroboras]

People preordered something that does not exist, something that yet should be built and never existed before. Welcome to the world of venture investments. It's not like buying a off-the-shelf product from the store.

If I give BFL my money then I expect a product that I have paid for. I don't really care much what are they doing with my money as long as I see that I'll eventualy got what I paid for. I see that they took a much bigger piece than they can swallow at once and they are dealing with it despite all the trashing they receive, but I won't feel the need for "micromanaging their bussiness through the forum" just because I gave them some money in advance and they're late.

After all, where else would you buy a device for 1,299$USD that literaly shits money?

Maybe it's just me with corporate experience and basic electronic knowledge and skills talking, but from my experience I know how things can get complicated and frustrated when trying to make something work right in electronics when soldering iron is smoking at 2:30am and I'm not getting my voltages, (mili)amps and waveforms at control points.

Calling them names and scammers across 4826494636239 posts won't help anyone and most certanly won't help them build a box that puts money in our pockets. If you don't like the way they treat you, take your money somewhere else. It's better for everyone that way. I would rather receive full working complete and reliable product in a three months that will work for years than receive tomorrow something that will break down in a couple of months.

Prepare to be called an asshole and promptly Ignored by the authors of this thread - as your comment makes sense. They do that, you know

[massnerder]

People preordered something that does not exist, something that yet should be built and never existed before. Welcome to the world of venture investments. It's not like buying a off-the-shelf product from the store.

If I give BFL my money then I expect a product that I have paid for. I don't really care much what are they doing with my money as long as I see that I'll eventualy got what I paid for. I see that they took a much bigger piece than they can swallow at once and they are dealing with it despite all the trashing they receive, but I won't feel the need for "micromanaging their bussiness through the forum" just because I gave them some money in advance and they're late.

After all, where else would you buy a device for 1,299$USD that literaly shits money?

Maybe it's just me with corporate experience and basic electronic knowledge and skills talking, but from my experience I know how things can get complicated and frustrated when trying to make something work right in electronics when soldering iron is smoking at 2:30am and I'm not getting my voltages, (mili)amps and waveforms at control points.

Calling them names and scammers across 4826494636239 posts won't help anyone and most certanly won't help them build a box that puts money in our pockets. If you don't like the way they treat you, take your money somewhere else. It's better for everyone that way. I would rather receive full working complete and reliable product in a three months that will work for years than receive tomorrow something that will break down in a couple of months.

Prepare to be called an asshole and promptly Ignored by the authors of this thread - as your comment makes sense. They do that, you know

That logic doesn't really hold up if you never receive it, or it's worthless to mine with when you do.

I think both sides of this one make sense, however...

I would rather receive full working complete and reliable product in a three months that will work for years than receive tomorrow something that will break down in a couple of months.

You are ignoring the fact that many people have been waiting much longer than 3 months, and not many of them are optimistic about that timetable suddenly being accurate after it has been changed so many times already.

Also consider the fact that Avalon chips are now becoming available to 3rd party developers with only a 9-10 week wait time.  It is possible that by the end of the summer BFL may not be the only game in town.  I do hope they get their act together and satisfy all the customers, but I would also like to see some options. 

[FUKT]

OK everyone, in response to claims and accusations I have attached a link that everyone can use to report BFL. The more people who do so the better:

http://www.stopfraud.gov/report.html

This link will let you choose a number of options, I suugest computer based farud or ponzi scheme etc. The more people who do this the better chance we have of shutting them down.

[FUKT]

OK everyone, in response to claims and accusations I have attached a link that everyone can use to report BFL. The more people who do so the better:

http://www.stopfraud.gov/report.html

This link will let you choose a number of options, I suugest computer based farud or ponzi scheme etc. The more people who do this the better chance we have of shutting them down.

And also this:

https://tips.fbi.gov/

[silverserpent]

OK everyone, in response to claims and accusations I have attached a link that everyone can use to report BFL. The more people who do so the better:

http://www.stopfraud.gov/report.html

This link will let you choose a number of options, I suugest computer based farud or ponzi scheme etc. The more people who do this the better chance we have of shutting them down.

the whole model sucks. however, u do want ur EQ, right. now it's closer than ever and somethin is better than nuttin. if u shut 'em down nobody gets anything (except what's already gone...+ debt, lawyers...)

somebody had the idea to try n entice these guys....offer more BTC if they deliver by a certain date...as a agroup, could be big M

how bout BFLsuxdomains

[qwertzlcoatl]

They should stop accepting pre-orders until their backlog is manageable.

This is also a very conclusive indicator that this can only be a massive scam. Every other enterprise with just a little bit business ethics should understand this.

[BitcoinMiningCompany]

I think many of us are in the same boat...get a refund or stick it out. Given the lack of ASIC options..I am still holding out.

[creativex]

They should stop accepting pre-orders until their backlog is manageable.

This is also a very conclusive indicator that this can only be a massive scam. Every other enterprise with just a little bit business ethics should understand this.

Not only that but they keep buying more ad space.

[joae1975]

I think many of us are in the same boat...get a refund or stick it out. Given the lack of ASIC options..I am still holding out.

I'm holding out too.  The way I see it, we're early adopters, taking a huge risk.  The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward.  Also the bigger the loss.  You gotta play to win.  Be a part of history. or sit on your a$$ and watch.  Secure some wealth for your family, tough times ahead.

[Preschoolv2]

I think many of us are in the same boat...get a refund or stick it out. Given the lack of ASIC options..I am still holding out.

I'm holding out too.  The way I see it, we're early adopters, taking a huge risk.  The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward.  Also the bigger the loss.  You gotta play to win.  Be a part of history. or sit on your a$$ and watch.  Secure some wealth for your family, tough times ahead.

Bingo. exactly. +1

[burek]

I think many of us are in the same boat...get a refund or stick it out. Given the lack of ASIC options..I am still holding out.

I'm holding out too.  The way I see it, we're early adopters, taking a huge risk.  The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward.  Also the bigger the loss.  You gotta play to win.  Be a part of history. or sit on your a$$ and watch.  Secure some wealth for your family, tough times ahead.

Well said. You can lose 1-2 thousand dollars soon or have a million in a year or two. Maybe even tens of millions if you save your bitcoins and economy grows in following years. I've seen people that lost few orders of magnitude more money investing in bussiness and they weren't bitching or crying on forums and social networks about it. Every 10th investment was successful for them and they hit the bottom few times before they became respectable bussinessmen.

Remember 09.2012. Avalon started so BFL will have a competition among other reasons. Things are now upside down and BFL is needed now to be competition to Avalon and ASICMINER.

[jseverson]

Well apparently some would agree with you, a bet on BFL

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1624

[bassclef]

I think many of us are in the same boat...get a refund or stick it out. Given the lack of ASIC options..I am still holding out.

I'm holding out too.  The way I see it, we're early adopters, taking a huge risk.  The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward.  Also the bigger the loss.  You gotta play to win.  Be a part of history. or sit on your a$$ and watch.  Secure some wealth for your family, tough times ahead.

So get a refund, take your money and invest in one of the other options. Those who get to market first, win. BFL is going to be last to market.

[MooC Tals]

Oh!!!!

 I see NOW bfl is a bet!!

I guess people are beginning to see the light that this could go bad.

Anyone here put down 30 grand on BFL?



COME ON BFL!!!!! COME ON BABE!!! YA!!!

[kencox]

BFL has a few thousand of my dollars. I hope they are not a scam. I am not charging back the credit card just yet. I want the miners.

[Crindon]

Paying with Bitcoins is optional, though it is true they can run away with them. Whenever I make large ticket purchases, I use a credit card through PayPal. I don't like the part of them likely and probably using their systems to hash. In essence, they are no longer selling you a new item. However, if they doing some light testing to make sure everything works properly, that won't be a bad thing. It's just that I don't think that is what they are doing with the items.

[creativex]

BFL has a few thousand of my dollars. I hope they are not a scam. I am not charging back the credit card just yet. I want the miners.

If that isn't a few thousand in Jalapeno orders placed in June or July of 2012 you should definitely request a refund or initiate a charge back. Their backlog of orders will ensure that you don't receive a product any time soon even if they do miraculously start shipping other products at or near the rate of production they claim to be within their capabilities.