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Author Topic: Health and Religion  (Read 191336 times)
CoinCube
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May 04, 2017, 12:59:01 PM
Last edit: May 04, 2017, 03:29:45 PM by CoinCube
 #1221


People who believe that science theory is truth, have a science religion going for themselves.

Nobody knows that science theory is factual. Why not? If they knew, it would not be theory, but science law.

When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.

Cool

Finally, you agree that religion isn't truth and fact.

Well done little fella, you are growing up!

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

Stats you are not understanding what BADecker is saying here. He is simply highlighting the fact that many of the worshippers of "Science" with a capital S are members of a religion even if they do not acknowledge it.

Here is an article from Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust is an emergency medicine physician at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston that highlights this issues.

Hive-Mind Worship Of "Science" At The March For Science
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2017/04/the_march_for_science_was_eerily_religious.html
Quote
Hundreds of thousands of self-professed science supporters turned out to over 600 iterations of the March for Science around the world this weekend. Thanks to the app Periscope, I attended half a dozen of them from the comfort of my apartment, thereby assiduously minimizing my carbon footprint.

Mainly, these marches appeared to be a pleasant excuse for liberals to write some really bad (and, OK, some truly superb) puns, and put them on cardboard signs. There were also some nicely stated slogans that roused support for important concepts such as reason and data and many that decried the defunding of scientific research and ignorance-driven policy.

But here’s the problem: Little of what I observed dissuades me from my baseline belief that, even among the sanctimonious elite who want to own science (and pwn anyone who questions it), most people have no idea how science actually works. The scientific method itself is already under constant attack from within the scientific community itself and is ceaselessly undermined by its so-called supporters, including during marches like those on Saturday. In the long run, such demonstrations will do little to resolve the myriad problems science faces and instead could continue to undermine our efforts to use science accurately and productively.

Let’s start with my contention that most “pro-science” demonstrators have no idea what they were demonstrating about. Being “pro-science” has become a bizarre cultural phenomenon in which liberals (and other members of the cultural elite) engage in public displays of self-reckoned intelligence as a kind of performance art, while demonstrating zero evidence to justify it. On any given day, many of my most “woke” friends are quick to post and retweet viral content about the latest on what Science (and I’m capitalizing this on purpose) “says,” or what some studies “prove.” But on closer look, much of what gets shared and bandied about is sheer bullshit and is diagnostic of one thing only: The state of science (and science literacy) in this country, and most of the planet for that matter, is woefully bad.

For example, the blog IFLScience (IFL stands for “I f---ing love”) seems singularly committed to undermining legitimately good science half the time, while promoting it the other half—which, scientifically speaking, is a problem. Here’s a neat one that relays news about a study that suggested that beer hops may protect against liver disease. I’ll be sure to mention that to the next alcoholic with hepatitis and cirrhosis that I treat. To date that article has been shared 41,600 times. Very few of those readers, I should mention, were mice, though the research was carried out in, you guessed it, mice. (And of course, this type of coverage is not refined to cleverly named blogs.)

That’s not to say plans to cut back funding for research are wise (though so far most of those plans seem contained to a meaningless budget proposal). Nor should we tolerate it when our policies are poised to undercut genuine scientific expertise for politically expedient purposes...

But there is very little indication that what happened on Saturday will counter these misconceptions. Instead, the march revealed the glaring dissonance of opposing that trough of ignorance by instead accepting a cringe-worthy hive-mind mentality that celebrates Science as a vague but wonderful entity, what Richard Feynman called “cargo cult science.” There was an uncomfortable dronelike fealty to the concept—an oxymoronic faith that information presented and packaged to us as Science need not be further scrutinized before being smugly celebrated en masse. That is not intellectually rigorous thought—instead, it’s another kind of religion, and it is perhaps as terrifying as the thing it is trying to fight.

Let’s face it: People like science when it supports their views. I see this every day. When patients ask me for antibiotics to treat their common colds, I tell them that decades of science and research, let alone a basic understanding of microbiology, shows that antibiotics don’t work for cold viruses. Trust me, people don’t care. They have gotten antibiotics for their colds in the past, and, lo, they got better. (The human immune system, while a bit slower and clunkier than we’d like it to be, never seems to get the credit it deserves in these little anecdotal stories.) Who needs science when you have something mightier—personal experience?

Sadly this worship of "Science" is sometimes accompanied by a rejection of faith and God. This replaces one religion with a far inferior substitute and is probably very bad for your health.

The main propose of this thread is to highlight what science (with a lower case s) tells us about the relationship between health and religion.

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May 04, 2017, 02:24:45 PM
 #1222


When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.

Cool

Finally, you agree that religion isn't truth and fact.

Well done little fella, you are growing up!

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

Stats you are not understanding what BADecker is saying here. He is simply highlighting the fact that many of the worshippers of "Science" with a capital S are members of a religion even if they do not acknowledge it.

Here is an article from Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust is an emergency medicine physician at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston that highlights this issues.

Hive-Mind Worship Of "Science" At The March For Science
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2017/04/the_march_for_science_was_eerily_religious.html
Quote
Hundreds of thousands of self-professed science supporters turned out to over 600 iterations of the March for Science around the world this weekend. Thanks to the app Periscope, I attended half a dozen of them from the comfort of my apartment, thereby assiduously minimizing my carbon footprint.

Mainly, these marches appeared to be a pleasant excuse for liberals to write some really bad (and, OK, some truly superb) puns, and put them on cardboard signs. There were also some nicely stated slogans that roused support for important concepts such as reason and data and many that decried the defunding of scientific research and ignorance-driven policy.

But here’s the problem: Little of what I observed dissuades me from my baseline belief that, even among the sanctimonious elite who want to own science (and pwn anyone who questions it), most people have no idea how science actually works. The scientific method itself is already under constant attack from within the scientific community itself and is ceaselessly undermined by its so-called supporters, including during marches like those on Saturday. In the long run, such demonstrations will do little to resolve the myriad problems science faces and instead could continue to undermine our efforts to use science accurately and productively.

Let’s start with my contention that most “pro-science” demonstrators have no idea what they were demonstrating about. Being “pro-science” has become a bizarre cultural phenomenon in which liberals (and other members of the cultural elite) engage in public displays of self-reckoned intelligence as a kind of performance art, while demonstrating zero evidence to justify it. On any given day, many of my most “woke” friends are quick to post and retweet viral content about the latest on what Science (and I’m capitalizing this on purpose) “says,” or what some studies “prove.” But on closer look, much of what gets shared and bandied about is sheer bullshit and is diagnostic of one thing only: The state of science (and science literacy) in this country, and most of the planet for that matter, is woefully bad.

For example, the blog IFLScience (IFL stands for “I f---ing love”) seems singularly committed to undermining legitimately good science half the time, while promoting it the other half—which, scientifically speaking, is a problem. Here’s a neat one that relays news about a study that suggested that beer hops may protect against liver disease. I’ll be sure to mention that to the next alcoholic with hepatitis and cirrhosis that I treat. To date that article has been shared 41,600 times. Very few of those readers, I should mention, were mice, though the research was carried out in, you guessed it, mice. (And of course, this type of coverage is not refined to cleverly named blogs.)

That’s not to say plans to cut back funding for research are wise (though so far most of those plans seem contained to a meaningless budget proposal). Nor should we tolerate it when our policies are poised to undercut genuine scientific expertise for politically expedient purposes...

But there is very little indication that what happened on Saturday will counter these misconceptions. Instead, the march revealed the glaring dissonance of opposing that trough of ignorance by instead accepting a cringe-worthy hive-mind mentality that celebrates Science as a vague but wonderful entity, what Richard Feynman called “cargo cult science.” There was an uncomfortable dronelike fealty to the concept—an oxymoronic faith that information presented and packaged to us as Science need not be further scrutinized before being smugly celebrated en masse. That is not intellectually rigorous thought—instead, it’s another kind of religion, and it is perhaps as terrifying as the thing it is trying to fight.

Let’s face it: People like science when it supports their views. I see this every day. When patients ask me for antibiotics to treat their common colds, I tell them that decades of science and research, let alone a basic understanding of microbiology, shows that antibiotics don’t work for cold viruses. Trust me, people don’t care. They have gotten antibiotics for their colds in the past, and, lo, they got better. (The human immune system, while a bit slower and clunkier than we’d like it to be, never seems to get the credit it deserves in these little anecdotal stories.) Who needs science when you have something mightier—personal experience?

Sadly this worship of "Science" is sometimes accompanied by a rejection of faith and God. This replaces one religion with a far inferior substitute and is probably very bad for your health.

The main propose of this thread is to highlight what science (with a lower case s) tells us about the relationship between health and religion.

Not what his words say.

Sorry try again.

I do find it funny how you understand the riddle language of BADecker.

I figured you to be more intelligent that that.
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May 04, 2017, 02:56:38 PM
 #1223

Religion is nothing but a disciplinary way, it shows the way how you behave and how you maintain your Life. If you follow the instructions of any religion then you can lead a peaceful life. Discipline can bring your good health. So regular life is the way of making good health.
So there is a relationship between religion and good health.

If taken in moderation.  Too much of it, and you become paranoid, schizophrenic, serial or mass murderer.

Regardless, it is a very dangerous poison IMHO.  Just like alcohol or drugs, religious ideology can fuck up your thinking.


I agree. Too much religion has a negative impact on the mental, and over time and on the person's physical health.

If you think that you are in the right thing belief, then you must hold on to that belief. Now if you are not deeper in your belief I think it will cause you only into confusion, because the more religions belief comes to you, you will never notice that your health is being affect by it by thinking so much about it.
CoinCube
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May 04, 2017, 04:05:37 PM
 #1224

Not what his words say.

Sorry try again.

I do find it funny how you understand the riddle language of BADecker.

I figured you to be more intelligent that that.

Ok I disagree but his words are immediately up thread so we can let people make their own determinations.

In regards to insults and insuinations of low intelligence. Here is a link describing your logical fallacy. Avoiding such errors will allow you to make improved arguments in the future.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem


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May 04, 2017, 04:37:04 PM
 #1225

Not what his words say.

Sorry try again.

I do find it funny how you understand the riddle language of BADecker.

I figured you to be more intelligent that that.

Ok I disagree but his words are immediately up thread so we can let people make their own determinations.

In regards to insults and insuinations of low intelligence. Here is a link describing your logical fallacy. Avoiding such errors will allow you to make improved arguments in the future.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem



Where did I insult and insinuate a low intelligence of BADecker?

I merely pointed out his claim of "When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion." and the correlation of this comment to his belief in religion.

Nothing more.

Interesting how you take the stance against me, yet have never mentioned the same context when BADecker makes comments about people belonging in mental institutions (funny farm) and having low intelligence.

CoinCube, can I suggest you take a long hard critical look at the way in which BADecker has argued his point, and the language with which he treats others to validate his point before defending him with your righteous comments.
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May 04, 2017, 06:03:30 PM
Last edit: June 25, 2017, 08:26:18 PM by CoinCube
 #1226

I figured you to be more intelligent that that.

...
Interesting how you take the stance against me, yet have never mentioned the same context when BADecker makes comments about people belonging in mental institutions (funny farm) and having low intelligence.

CoinCube, can I suggest you take a long hard critical look at the way in which BADecker has argued his point, and the language with which he treats others to validate his point before defending him with your righteous comments.


You again misunderstand me stats. I am not defending BADecker he is entirely capable of defending himself.

The reality is I do challenge BADecker when I disagree with what he says. In fact I have done so in this very thread.

What I am doing here is defending BADecker's correct conclusions. The truth of these conclusions rest on their own merit regardless of whatever BADecker has or has not said in the past.

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

As an aside I also challenge this statement of yours as false. However, unlike the simple logical fallacy above this is a deeper point of contention. If you are interested in why this statement is false I would direct you to the following link.

Debate on Nihilism

CoinCube
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May 04, 2017, 08:47:47 PM
 #1227

Trump: ‘Freedom Is Not a Gift From Government — Freedom Is a Gift From God’
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/05/04/trump-freedom-not-gift-government-freedom-gift-god/
Quote from: Pam Key
Thursday in the Rose Garden at the White House, President Donald Trump declared freedom to be “a gift from God” before signing an executive order to protect the tax-exempt status of churches and religious groups if they engaged in politics.

Trump said, “We remember this eternal truth. Freedom is not a gift from government. Freedom is a gift from God. It was Thomas Jefferson who said the God who gave us life gave us liberty. Our Founding Fathers believed that religious liberty was so fundamental that they enshrined it in the very First Amendment of our great beloved Constitution.”

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May 04, 2017, 11:45:04 PM
 #1228


When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.

Cool

Finally, you agree that religion isn't truth and fact.

Well done little fella, you are growing up!

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

Quite the contrary. The proof for the existence of God is shown here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Research topics on how the Bible developed, and you will see that the Bible is a miracle.

We don't need faith that you, stats, exist. You prove it all the time by posting. But because of WHAT you post, it is extremely difficult to have faith in anything you say.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
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May 04, 2017, 11:51:11 PM
 #1229


When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.

Cool

Finally, you agree that religion isn't truth and fact.

Well done little fella, you are growing up!

Religion is all faith.... no truth!
Faith is good, but I don't understand how you can believe in something that has no evidence? That faith has helped someone live a better life, or the poor made rich, or stopped the war? Maybe faith had cured someone of a terminal illness? So it is not a belief, and deception.

That's the point about faith. Consider:

Imagine something that nobody ever dreamed of ever having existed. Then, try to have faith that it exists. This is difficult.

Science proves that God exists. The Bible and how it was put together prove that God is talking through the Bible. There is proof for this stuff. The thing that we don't have proof for is the promises that God has made to us. We believe these promises through faith.

God/Bible reality is based on fact and proof. Faith is required for accepting the unknown things that God tells us are going to happen.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
stats
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May 05, 2017, 06:57:25 AM
 #1230


When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.

Cool

Finally, you agree that religion isn't truth and fact.

Well done little fella, you are growing up!

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

Quite the contrary. The proof for the existence of God is shown here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Research topics on how the Bible developed, and you will see that the Bible is a miracle.

We don't need faith that you, stats, exist. You prove it all the time by posting. But because of WHAT you post, it is extremely difficult to have faith in anything you say.

Cool

You bring a tear to my eye now that you are growing up BADecker. It is brilliant to see.

You made the perfect statement that you don't need faith to know I am real because I post here. Yet, your God doesn't make a single post.

Thanks for proving your god isn't real.

We have been asking and now you have finally admitted your god isn't real.  Smiley
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May 05, 2017, 07:18:04 AM
 #1231

I figured you to be more intelligent that that.

...
Interesting how you take the stance against me, yet have never mentioned the same context when BADecker makes comments about people belonging in mental institutions (funny farm) and having low intelligence.

CoinCube, can I suggest you take a long hard critical look at the way in which BADecker has argued his point, and the language with which he treats others to validate his point before defending him with your righteous comments.


You again misunderstand me stats. I am not defending BADecker he is entirely capable of defending himself.

The reality is I do challenge BADecker when I disagree with what he says. In fact I have done so in this very thread.
See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg13990595#msg13990595

What I am doing here is defending BADecker's correct conclusions. The truth of these conclusions rest on their own merit regardless of whatever BADecker has or has not said in the past.

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

As an aside I also challenge this statement of yours as false. However, unlike the simple logical fallacy above this is a deeper point of contention. If you are interested in why this statement is false I would direct you to the following link.

Debate on Nihilism


@CoinCube...... when I stated that "I figured you to more intelligent than that", this was not an inflammatory claim, nor was it implying a low intelligence. It is simply stating that I thought your intelligence was greater than what I since believe. Should you determine that it was a statement of low intelligence or an inflammatory comment against yourself, then that is by your own thought process and not mine. In essence, your belief in my logical fallacy in that situation is flawed.

You claim that you are defending BADecker's conclusions, yet, his words state "When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.". I simply agreed that the comment was correct. This comment alone confirms that BADecker agrees that religion is not truth and fact.

Having read your link, I will concede that my statement of "Religion is all faith.... no truth" I will concede that a level of truth does occur in religion, but only to the individual and/or a core group of people with the same ideology. This does not make it factual for everyone.

I have no issue with a person having faith, in fact I congratulate them on their faith as it is a personal choice they make which best suits them. 

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May 05, 2017, 11:33:49 AM
 #1232

^^^^^ Religion is NOT completely truth and fact. Why not? Because people don't really understand complete truth, no matter who they are.

There are some things that are truth, fact, reality. Science shows some of these things. Among them are the scientific laws, and what the scientific laws uphold. The scientific laws uphold the fact that God exists, and the fact that the Bible is an impossible to exist book, making it a book that exists by Divine action. Science, also, upholds the fact that science theories are not known to be fact.

When a person believes the subjects that science theories talk about as though they were fact, trusting in them as though they were going to impact his life in a good way, that is religion. Such religion is based on things that are questionable, and are not known to be factual.

When a person bases his belief on God Who is known to be factual, that belief is stronger than belief in science theories that are NOT known to be factual. When the person believes the Bible that is shown to have been designed and set in place by God, that person is believing that his life will be impacted for his benefit, by two things that are known to be factual.

Nobody knows the future for a fact. People who trust what God says, have a religion of hope, because it is based on the facts of God and the Bible. People who trust in science theories should realize that their hope is really very weak, because it is based on things that are not know to be fact.

Will the strength of God-religion always be stronger than the strength of science-religion? Yes. Because a God-religion person understands that God controls every little electron and photon completely. A science-religion based person should realize that science can barely track individual electrons and photons in the lab, but has yet to begin tracking even one of them in nature. Science is not even in the race it is so far behind God.

God-religion is way stronger than science-religion.

Cool

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May 05, 2017, 02:56:58 PM
Last edit: May 05, 2017, 03:20:57 PM by Okurkabinladin
 #1233

I figured you to be more intelligent that that.

...
Interesting how you take the stance against me, yet have never mentioned the same context when BADecker makes comments about people belonging in mental institutions (funny farm) and having low intelligence.

CoinCube, can I suggest you take a long hard critical look at the way in which BADecker has argued his point, and the language with which he treats others to validate his point before defending him with your righteous comments.


You again misunderstand me stats. I am not defending BADecker he is entirely capable of defending himself.

The reality is I do challenge BADecker when I disagree with what he says. In fact I have done so in this very thread.
See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg13990595#msg13990595

What I am doing here is defending BADecker's correct conclusions. The truth of these conclusions rest on their own merit regardless of whatever BADecker has or has not said in the past.

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

As an aside I also challenge this statement of yours as false. However, unlike the simple logical fallacy above this is a deeper point of contention. If you are interested in why this statement is false I would direct you to the following link.

Debate on Nihilism


@CoinCube...... when I stated that "I figured you to more intelligent than that", this was not an inflammatory claim, nor was it implying a low intelligence. It is simply stating that I thought your intelligence was greater than what I since believe. Should you determine that it was a statement of low intelligence or an inflammatory comment against yourself, then that is by your own thought process and not mine. In essence, your belief in my logical fallacy in that situation is flawed.

You claim that you are defending BADecker's conclusions, yet, his words state "When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.". I simply agreed that the comment was correct. This comment alone confirms that BADecker agrees that religion is not truth and fact.

Having read your link, I will concede that my statement of "Religion is all faith.... no truth" I will concede that a level of truth does occur in religion, but only to the individual and/or a core group of people with the same ideology. This does not make it factual for everyone.

I have no issue with a person having faith, in fact I congratulate them on their faith as it is a personal choice they make which best suits them.  



If you congratulate people, who inherently understand, that their life is valuable and purposeful, then why do you come here and spend more and more of yours and their time trying to tell them they are wrong?

Do Ten commandments offend you so much?

By the way, nobody here ever wrote that Bible in its present or past state is literal word of God. Rather it is account of past witnesses, who came closer to Him.

Bible is not Quran. It is and should be subject to interpretation, not step by step tutorial.
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May 05, 2017, 03:22:06 PM
 #1234

I figured you to be more intelligent that that.

...
Interesting how you take the stance against me, yet have never mentioned the same context when BADecker makes comments about people belonging in mental institutions (funny farm) and having low intelligence.

CoinCube, can I suggest you take a long hard critical look at the way in which BADecker has argued his point, and the language with which he treats others to validate his point before defending him with your righteous comments.


You again misunderstand me stats. I am not defending BADecker he is entirely capable of defending himself.

The reality is I do challenge BADecker when I disagree with what he says. In fact I have done so in this very thread.
See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg13990595#msg13990595

What I am doing here is defending BADecker's correct conclusions. The truth of these conclusions rest on their own merit regardless of whatever BADecker has or has not said in the past.

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

As an aside I also challenge this statement of yours as false. However, unlike the simple logical fallacy above this is a deeper point of contention. If you are interested in why this statement is false I would direct you to the following link.

Debate on Nihilism


@CoinCube...... when I stated that "I figured you to more intelligent than that", this was not an inflammatory claim, nor was it implying a low intelligence. It is simply stating that I thought your intelligence was greater than what I since believe. Should you determine that it was a statement of low intelligence or an inflammatory comment against yourself, then that is by your own thought process and not mine. In essence, your belief in my logical fallacy in that situation is flawed.

You claim that you are defending BADecker's conclusions, yet, his words state "When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.". I simply agreed that the comment was correct. This comment alone confirms that BADecker agrees that religion is not truth and fact.

Having read your link, I will concede that my statement of "Religion is all faith.... no truth" I will concede that a level of truth does occur in religion, but only to the individual and/or a core group of people with the same ideology. This does not make it factual for everyone.

I have no issue with a person having faith, in fact I congratulate them on their faith as it is a personal choice they make which best suits them. 



If you congratulate people, who inherently understand, that their life is valuable and purposeful, then why do you come here and spends more and more of yours and their time trying to tell them they are wrong?

Do Ten commandments offend you so much?

By the way, nobody here ever wrote that Bible in its present or past state is literal word of God. Rather it is account of past witnesses, who came closer to Him.

Bible is not Quran. It is and should be subject to interpretation, not step by step tutorial.

I have no drama  with people following religion...... I have problem when they tell me it is the truth and condemn me for the life I choose.

Show me the proof of your god before trying to tell me that I am wrong. I have never said any person here is living their life wrong.... I just expect some proof to their points they raise. Real proof..... not BADecker's assumptions.

The Bible an account of witnesses.......

When your God and Moses spoke on Mount Sinai, there was no-on else present...... how then can the bible be an account of witnesses? It is a fictional story..... nothing more.

The 10 commandments do not worry me at all..... I find some of them to be correct. They are not my commandments, but the do fit with my sense of what is right.

If you say that the bible is open to interpretation, and another says the bible is the word of your god, and the bible says you should follow the word of your god, then who is correct? Do you interpret or follow it implicitly?
BADecker
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May 05, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
 #1235

I figured you to be more intelligent that that.

...
Interesting how you take the stance against me, yet have never mentioned the same context when BADecker makes comments about people belonging in mental institutions (funny farm) and having low intelligence.

CoinCube, can I suggest you take a long hard critical look at the way in which BADecker has argued his point, and the language with which he treats others to validate his point before defending him with your righteous comments.


You again misunderstand me stats. I am not defending BADecker he is entirely capable of defending himself.

The reality is I do challenge BADecker when I disagree with what he says. In fact I have done so in this very thread.
See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg13990595#msg13990595

What I am doing here is defending BADecker's correct conclusions. The truth of these conclusions rest on their own merit regardless of whatever BADecker has or has not said in the past.

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

As an aside I also challenge this statement of yours as false. However, unlike the simple logical fallacy above this is a deeper point of contention. If you are interested in why this statement is false I would direct you to the following link.

Debate on Nihilism


@CoinCube...... when I stated that "I figured you to more intelligent than that", this was not an inflammatory claim, nor was it implying a low intelligence. It is simply stating that I thought your intelligence was greater than what I since believe. Should you determine that it was a statement of low intelligence or an inflammatory comment against yourself, then that is by your own thought process and not mine. In essence, your belief in my logical fallacy in that situation is flawed.

You claim that you are defending BADecker's conclusions, yet, his words state "When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.". I simply agreed that the comment was correct. This comment alone confirms that BADecker agrees that religion is not truth and fact.

Having read your link, I will concede that my statement of "Religion is all faith.... no truth" I will concede that a level of truth does occur in religion, but only to the individual and/or a core group of people with the same ideology. This does not make it factual for everyone.

I have no issue with a person having faith, in fact I congratulate them on their faith as it is a personal choice they make which best suits them. 



If you congratulate people, who inherently understand, that their life is valuable and purposeful, then why do you come here and spends more and more of yours and their time trying to tell them they are wrong?

Do Ten commandments offend you so much?

By the way, nobody here ever wrote that Bible in its present or past state is literal word of God. Rather it is account of past witnesses, who came closer to Him.

Bible is not Quran. It is and should be subject to interpretation, not step by step tutorial.

I have no drama  with people following religion...... I have problem when they tell me it is the truth and condemn me for the life I choose.

Show me the proof of your god before trying to tell me that I am wrong. I have never said any person here is living their life wrong.... I just expect some proof to their points they raise. Real proof..... not BADecker's assumptions.

The Bible an account of witnesses.......

When your God and Moses spoke on Mount Sinai, there was no-on else present...... how then can the bible be an account of witnesses? It is a fictional story..... nothing more.

The 10 commandments do not worry me at all..... I find some of them to be correct. They are not my commandments, but the do fit with my sense of what is right.

If you say that the bible is open to interpretation, and another says the bible is the word of your god, and the bible says you should follow the word of your god, then who is correct? Do you interpret or follow it implicitly?



Since you only believe what you want to believe, there is no way to prove the existence of God to you. Rather than have proof knowledge, you want to believe whatever you want to believe, whether or not it is correct.

Since I have shown science proof of God that has been known ever since science has been around, you are proving to reject science.

The next best proof is nature, and then the Bible witness. Since you reject all these, you are holding yourself up to be better than science and witnesses and nature. What proof do you have that you are better than these?

Cool

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Okurkabinladin
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May 06, 2017, 02:55:30 AM
Last edit: May 06, 2017, 03:09:59 AM by Okurkabinladin
 #1236

Stats,

I see you have a problem with way BADecker interperts holy Gospel, not with faith in and of itself. Even if I dont agree with every word he writes here, its not him that throws hateful insults at his opponents. On this forum, at time I could swear I am witnessing rally of bolsheviks ready to send any and all opponents of their nihilistic ideas to gulags. I will defend right of BADecker to say what he wishes to say. It were afterall protestants, not marxists, who in the name of God laid written foundation to freedom of consience and free speech. Concepts peculiar to western civilization.

"show me the proof" Your existence and the gift of free will that elevated you above mere animal is too small a proof for you? Or you consider that meaningless and granted?

If experience of Moses on mount Sinai is just made up story, why wasnt it confined to bedtime stories of ancient Jews and become known all over the world? In 30 AD mere forty men and women understood message of Jesus Christ. In the next 300 years "made up story" became after generations of state oppresion religion of 40 million. And eventually 2 billion of souls.

So tell me. Why Christianity and not any other, if we are talking about "made up" stories? What makes its message so special to all the people around the World, that it not only survived all human flaws and alternative views but also militant atheism? How and why did Christianity among competition not only survive but grow to form up culture, that build civilization spanning all continents? Eventually embracing democracy aswell.

There is your proof. We, all of us are the proof. You can choose to ignore us, the laws of Nature aswell as any grand purpose to it all, but you cannot deny our existence in rational matter.

Quote
If you say that the bible is open to interpretation, and another says the bible is the word of your god, and the bible says you should follow the word of your god, then who is correct? Do you interpret or follow it implicitly?

The first is good question and ultimately dependant upon individual. We were granted free will to choose how and even if we embrace word of God or turn out back on Him. The second question represents false dilemma as believer does both to the best of his or her heart and means.

stats
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May 06, 2017, 04:48:05 AM
 #1237

I figured you to be more intelligent that that.

...
Interesting how you take the stance against me, yet have never mentioned the same context when BADecker makes comments about people belonging in mental institutions (funny farm) and having low intelligence.

CoinCube, can I suggest you take a long hard critical look at the way in which BADecker has argued his point, and the language with which he treats others to validate his point before defending him with your righteous comments.


You again misunderstand me stats. I am not defending BADecker he is entirely capable of defending himself.

The reality is I do challenge BADecker when I disagree with what he says. In fact I have done so in this very thread.
See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg13990595#msg13990595

What I am doing here is defending BADecker's correct conclusions. The truth of these conclusions rest on their own merit regardless of whatever BADecker has or has not said in the past.

Religion is all faith.... no truth!

As an aside I also challenge this statement of yours as false. However, unlike the simple logical fallacy above this is a deeper point of contention. If you are interested in why this statement is false I would direct you to the following link.

Debate on Nihilism


@CoinCube...... when I stated that "I figured you to more intelligent than that", this was not an inflammatory claim, nor was it implying a low intelligence. It is simply stating that I thought your intelligence was greater than what I since believe. Should you determine that it was a statement of low intelligence or an inflammatory comment against yourself, then that is by your own thought process and not mine. In essence, your belief in my logical fallacy in that situation is flawed.

You claim that you are defending BADecker's conclusions, yet, his words state "When they believe in something that they do not know is truth and fact, they have religion.". I simply agreed that the comment was correct. This comment alone confirms that BADecker agrees that religion is not truth and fact.

Having read your link, I will concede that my statement of "Religion is all faith.... no truth" I will concede that a level of truth does occur in religion, but only to the individual and/or a core group of people with the same ideology. This does not make it factual for everyone.

I have no issue with a person having faith, in fact I congratulate them on their faith as it is a personal choice they make which best suits them. 



If you congratulate people, who inherently understand, that their life is valuable and purposeful, then why do you come here and spends more and more of yours and their time trying to tell them they are wrong?

Do Ten commandments offend you so much?

By the way, nobody here ever wrote that Bible in its present or past state is literal word of God. Rather it is account of past witnesses, who came closer to Him.

Bible is not Quran. It is and should be subject to interpretation, not step by step tutorial.

I have no drama  with people following religion...... I have problem when they tell me it is the truth and condemn me for the life I choose.

Show me the proof of your god before trying to tell me that I am wrong. I have never said any person here is living their life wrong.... I just expect some proof to their points they raise. Real proof..... not BADecker's assumptions.

The Bible an account of witnesses.......

When your God and Moses spoke on Mount Sinai, there was no-on else present...... how then can the bible be an account of witnesses? It is a fictional story..... nothing more.

The 10 commandments do not worry me at all..... I find some of them to be correct. They are not my commandments, but the do fit with my sense of what is right.

If you say that the bible is open to interpretation, and another says the bible is the word of your god, and the bible says you should follow the word of your god, then who is correct? Do you interpret or follow it implicitly?



Since you only believe what you want to believe, there is no way to prove the existence of God to you. Rather than have proof knowledge, you want to believe whatever you want to believe, whether or not it is correct.

Since I have shown science proof of God that has been known ever since science has been around, you are proving to reject science.

The next best proof is nature, and then the Bible witness. Since you reject all these, you are holding yourself up to be better than science and witnesses and nature. What proof do you have that you are better than these?

Cool

You have not provided proof.

Provide me with some and we can discuss further.
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May 06, 2017, 04:51:27 AM
 #1238

Stats,

I see you have a problem with way BADecker interperts holy Gospel, not with faith in and of itself. Even if I dont agree with every word he writes here, its not him that throws hateful insults at his opponents. On this forum, at time I could swear I am witnessing rally of bolsheviks ready to send any and all opponents of their nihilistic ideas to gulags. I will defend right of BADecker to say what he wishes to say. It were afterall protestants, not marxists, who in the name of God laid written foundation to freedom of consience and free speech. Concepts peculiar to western civilization.

"show me the proof" Your existence and the gift of free will that elevated you above mere animal is too small a proof for you? Or you consider that meaningless and granted?

If experience of Moses on mount Sinai is just made up story, why wasnt it confined to bedtime stories of ancient Jews and become known all over the world? In 30 AD mere forty men and women understood message of Jesus Christ. In the next 300 years "made up story" became after generations of state oppresion religion of 40 million. And eventually 2 billion of souls.

So tell me. Why Christianity and not any other, if we are talking about "made up" stories? What makes its message so special to all the people around the World, that it not only survived all human flaws and alternative views but also militant atheism? How and why did Christianity among competition not only survive but grow to form up culture, that build civilization spanning all continents? Eventually embracing democracy aswell.

There is your proof. We, all of us are the proof. You can choose to ignore us, the laws of Nature aswell as any grand purpose to it all, but you cannot deny our existence in rational matter.

Quote
If you say that the bible is open to interpretation, and another says the bible is the word of your god, and the bible says you should follow the word of your god, then who is correct? Do you interpret or follow it implicitly?

The first is good question and ultimately dependant upon individual. We were granted free will to choose how and even if we embrace word of God or turn out back on Him. The second question represents false dilemma as believer does both to the best of his or her heart and means.



The basic premises of my argument is that BADecker, and those like him make claims of his god being reality.

If this is the case, prove it.... don't show links to assumptions and then ignore when others disprove.

My belief is that no god can be proven, nor disproven..... I chose to not believe.

But if other's claim their god is real..... then prove it.
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May 06, 2017, 05:11:11 AM
 #1239

Hi everyone,
I have sought to answer the GOD question for a long time and the evidence convinced me that humanism is false, this realization changes the game for the GOD question.

Survival of the personality is borne out by physical evidence, but atheists rarely know very much about this evidence. In my posts I have presented over 100 pieces of evidence that suggest survival, to start with, the skeptic can investigate the top 20 spirit-contact cases and the top 20 reincarnation cases:
http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml
Then there is 20 more reincarnation cases, from one researcher:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Cases_Suggestive_of_Reincarnation

This evidence could be key to a proof of GOD; consider this:
All rational atheists are humanists since what else could they be?
There are only 2 possible answers to the god(s) question (yes or no--theism or atheism).
Humanism is strictly opposed to the survival hypothesis, but the evidence strongly suggests survival and therefore theism.

Philosophical materialism is not an updated theory of mind, it is not capable of addressing the evidence and that is why physicalism was rejected by these eminent researchers:

https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/eminent_researchers

Some key points of evidence out of 100+ presented;

The transcendent nature of minds in NDEs corresponds with physics:
http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html#a23
Skeptical arguments against NDEs are not valid:
http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html#a35
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May 06, 2017, 05:18:35 AM
 #1240

You have not provided proof.

Provide me with some and we can discuss further.


The basic premises of my argument is that BADecker, and those like him make claims of his god being reality.

If this is the case, prove it.... don't show links to assumptions and then ignore when others disprove.

My belief is that no god can be proven, nor disproven..... I chose to not believe.

But if other's claim their god is real..... then prove it.


Since you won't accept the proof of science, and since you won't except the evidence of your own eyes when they behold nature, and since you won't accept the eye witness reports of the Bible, you are simply in denial for your own reasons.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
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