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Author Topic: [PRE-ANN] OPAIR | Decentralized Debit Cards | OCaml | New Blockchain Platform  (Read 127606 times)
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animalroam
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August 04, 2016, 07:26:50 PM
 #641



In start of the ico, the rules were accepted by all. Then by a suggestion of the community they decided to use an escrow for the future. They did not change the rules without asking anyone and to the detriment of investors, but just changed that rule for the future of the ICO for the community suggestion. And they established that the second phase will be escrow and refund to anyone who asks, because will be governed by the rules of escrow (SebastianJu). It is very clear to me.



Not extending escrow to ALL investors is obviously to the detriment of those investors who don't get it. The dev team changed the rules, that is obvious too, and not changing rules for all investors is very unfair. They have the chance to do the right thing and offer escrow to ALL investors. If they don't then their ICO continues to suffer from scam perception.

The devs didn't change the rules, they divided the ICO in two phases, the first one under certain conditions, and the second one under other conditions. It is then obvious that the btc given under the first conditions must stay under the first conditions, as the investors consented the first conditions, not the second. It would be wrong to assume every investor from the first ICO phase agree on the second conditions. You can't do whatever you want.

The devs changed the rules/conditions/terms, where in the original OP is any mention of phase 1 & phase 2?

It's so obvious they changed the terms of the ICO in response to criticism ... they should make same conditions for every investor, otherwise ask yourself why they wouldn't? If ALL funds are in escrow ALL investors will have 100% confidence a working network will be delivered.

Are you saying it's bad to consider the community's position and add escrow for the second part of the ICO? Originally escrow wasn't an even an option, so that's why the dev created phase 2. You seriously can't satisfy everyone...
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August 04, 2016, 07:38:38 PM
 #642

We were already forwarded the BTC raised today to the escrow. To avoid any confusion, I want to clarify that our wallet created two outputs in the transaction. But, as you may know, all funds remain in our wallet. I leave here the information: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/9007/why-are-there-two-transaction-outputs-when-sending-to-one-address

Regards

Will have to be confirmed by Sebastian.

I received 0.51b till now. In around a hour the next payment should come if there were investments...

Now 1.49231024 BTC (https://blockchain.info/address/3JCsw5ZxyqdZqXTZa42225LakRdqgJqQck). Hopefully we continue to grow in this way.

That is a nice payment for a escrow.

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August 04, 2016, 07:39:36 PM
 #643

What about increasing the rewards for translations?

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August 04, 2016, 09:44:19 PM
Last edit: August 05, 2016, 12:04:42 AM by jeewaka
 #644

Pardon my ignorance, if there is 74 million XPO, and at the current rate thats close to 80 BTC. Is there a cut off to the ICO after the rate of XPO to BTC?

I already have invested because I truly believe in this project and its something thats needed for more market adoption of digital currency and ease to use.
I have convinced 3 people who are not into crypto currency to invest and they too love the idea of it.
As for the FUD, its best for the dev team to ignore them, kind of makes the whole thread too long for me to read and brings about confusion. I am already confused about 1 and 2nd phase and I have no clue which phase i am in regards to all this talk.


All I want is that this project succeeds as the team envisioned it.
A true investor lets the dev team builds the product, not bicker about how they are starting to do it.


Cheers.

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August 04, 2016, 10:29:35 PM
 #645

Pardon my ignorance, if there is 74 million XPO, and at the current rate thats close to 80 BTC. Is there a cut off to the ICO after the rate of XPO to BTC?

I already have invested because I truly believe in this project and its something thats needed for more market adoption of digital currency and easy to use.
I have convinced 3 people who are not into crypto currency to invest and they too love the idea of it.
As for the Fud, its best for the dev team to ignore them, kind of makes the whole thread too long for me to read and brings about confusion. I am already confused about 1 and 2nd phase and I have no clue which phase i am in regards to all this talk.


I I want is that this project succeeds as the team envisioned it.
A true investor lets the dev team builds the product, not bicker about how they are starting to do it.


Cheers.

+1
Agree.
Spammers are scammers.
Don`t pay attention.
I think there were many people tell that Marc Zukerberg is dumb asshole and will never succeed.
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August 05, 2016, 12:26:21 AM
 #646

wasserman99 how should you guarantee the investors that you are responsible enough to put effort on this project?
because i'd rather buy the coin once its on the exchange after all everyone is going to dump it in the first day of release.
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August 05, 2016, 12:34:34 AM
 #647



In start of the ico, the rules were accepted by all. Then by a suggestion of the community they decided to use an escrow for the future. They did not change the rules without asking anyone and to the detriment of investors, but just changed that rule for the future of the ICO for the community suggestion. And they established that the second phase will be escrow and refund to anyone who asks, because will be governed by the rules of escrow (SebastianJu). It is very clear to me.



Not extending escrow to ALL investors is obviously to the detriment of those investors who don't get it. The dev team changed the rules, that is obvious too, and not changing rules for all investors is very unfair. They have the chance to do the right thing and offer escrow to ALL investors. If they don't then their ICO continues to suffer from scam perception.

The devs didn't change the rules, they divided the ICO in two phases, the first one under certain conditions, and the second one under other conditions. It is then obvious that the btc given under the first conditions must stay under the first conditions, as the investors consented the first conditions, not the second. It would be wrong to assume every investor from the first ICO phase agree on the second conditions. You can't do whatever you want.

The devs changed the rules/conditions/terms, where in the original OP is any mention of phase 1 & phase 2?

It's so obvious they changed the terms of the ICO in response to criticism ... they should make same conditions for every investor, otherwise ask yourself why they wouldn't? If ALL funds are in escrow ALL investors will have 100% confidence a working network will be delivered.

Are you saying it's bad to consider the community's position and add escrow for the second part of the ICO? Originally escrow wasn't an even an option, so that's why the dev created phase 2. You seriously can't satisfy everyone...

Yes, the devs can easily satisfy everyone if they send ALL ICO funds to the escrow. That will satisfy everyone! They changed the terms of the ICO mid-stream, and I want those same terms.
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August 05, 2016, 02:48:39 AM
 #648

Its good to see support from us, the investors. I agree 100% with vanBlack, jeewaka, animalroam, loracle. I think we are on the right track, i expect the last days will be wild and more than one whales will take his chance here.

Good help to Opair

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August 05, 2016, 04:29:03 AM
 #649

Now , everything is clear and transperent. The escrow is established for the investors.
I want all investors to focus on the project and please do not make comments with nonsense
Let the project go on ahead. If anyone does not like this project , Please go out
I'm tired of the comments with nonsense.
Thank you
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August 05, 2016, 05:01:32 AM
 #650

ICO Update - Day Nine

Thanks to everyone for your support. We are in the good way.
I would like all users interested in the project come to our Slack to have a more fluid conversation.
Send an email to opair@openmailbox.org to request an invitation.

Members: 238
Number of investments: 124
Amount invested: 70.56 BTC

Actual bonus (until August 10): - Users participating in the campaign the second week will receive 15% bonus.




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August 05, 2016, 07:19:33 AM
 #651

They want to collect 1000 BTC, but are too stingy  to pay the few bucks more for the escrow of the first 70 BTC. Illogical.  Huh Roll Eyes

Wasn't it 700BTC?  I dunno about you, but 300BTC difference isn't something to just round off.

Not sure, it may be that I got confused with Stratis. Nevertheless, it is illogical or not?

Illogical? Mayhap.  But even delusions have grades from minor to grand.

Btw, why are you co-signing illogical concepts in your signature line?

I did not say the concept of coin is illogical. I can find something good and still do not agree with everything. We are not all those sockpuppetfanboys like you.
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August 05, 2016, 11:26:43 AM
 #652

Why don't you deposit the previous collected btc to the escrow ?
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August 05, 2016, 11:27:56 AM
 #653

Co-signing what everyone in the thread has said re: escrow and more communication.  I am hopeful so tossed a fiver in the hat, but that could have been more with more presence.  Max has this for Lisk, Vitalik has it for Ethereum.

As a marketing stooge, I would advise at least:
1. Youtube videos/interviews on a weekly-biweekly basis during this ICO.  At least thank supporters publicly;
2. Livestream/Twitch yourself(ves?) responding to questions on slack or something;
3. Consider putting out more about design considerations, e.g. why OCaml if it does not perfectly support your desires?
4. Maybe connect directly with big supporters and see if any would want to publicly support Opair, (e.g. the 15BTC donation);
5. Offer escrow or auto-refund function or confirm what will happen if project fails to meet 700BTC.

Everything is new 24/7 nowadays and Kickstarter projects flop all the time.  Right now this is on the level of a Kickstarter - you may get to 700 but it sure looks blurry right now.

Again, you have acted illogically.  And that's sockpuppetfangirl. Cool
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August 05, 2016, 11:37:55 AM
 #654

Why don't you deposit the previous collected btc to the escrow ?

there really is no need is there.
it was collected without escrow because they trusted him..
nothing has changed right except he is being a little more transparent..
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August 06, 2016, 03:30:13 PM
 #655

They want to collect 1000 BTC, but are too stingy  to pay the few bucks more for the escrow of the first 70 BTC. Illogical.  Huh Roll Eyes

Where written information about 700 or 1000 BTC?
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August 06, 2016, 09:24:18 PM
 #656

They want to collect 1000 BTC, but are too stingy  to pay the few bucks more for the escrow of the first 70 BTC. Illogical.  Huh Roll Eyes

Where written information about 700 or 1000 BTC?

Hi,

On our first message:

Quote
-   To be honest we do not have a min amount but we believe that, at least, 700 BTC would need to put together. From then on, all collected serve to optimize, accelerate, hire more people, marketing, legal costs, go to more events and create a division that works as an incubator in the ecosystem we aim to create in Opair. We believe it is a realistic goal to achieve and we are optimistic about this.

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August 07, 2016, 02:49:38 AM
 #657

Great concept with innovative idea. I am from india and make a post for local with https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1578035 url. I would Like to go for bounties.
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August 07, 2016, 08:16:22 PM
 #658

Well, i see this went well Smiley
Protip. When 2 people with linkedin profiles won't get on bitcointalk, and the person with a bitcointalk account won't post his name or linkedin profile. 'maybe' not hand money out. #liveandlearn

The other two do not write in the forum, because it's my task. I am the Opair Marketing Director. But Frank has published a statement in the forum also. He has published in his personal account too: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/opair-statement-frank-h-rettig

Greetings everyone,

Due to the fact that many asked for me to create an account, here I am. In response to the first question asked I have never had an account on the forum before, but I have been a passive reader since late 2012. That is why I have never had the need of creating an account. I have created it exclusively to leave you this message. I want to confirm my involvement on this project in response to many requests. You must understand that I did not create an account when we launch Opair because my role is to lead the developing process; Wasserman is the Marketing Director.  And he is doing it very well so far. Last but not least, I wanted to clarify that I’m responsible for the ICO, and along with my team, we will be in charge of taking this ship safely to shore. Regarding my work, I’m currently working full time on a company and, along with Hao, we are splitting the tasks. Our goals are to work full time with Opair, once we have the ICO funds, and also to broaden our team. The success of that goal relies entirely on the results of the ICO, from there it is on our hands.

Please, feel free to contact me at via email if you have any questions.

Frank H. Rettig



Hallo zusammen,

da mich bereits Viele darum gebeten haben ein Konto zu eröffnen, tue ich dies nun, um hier kontaktiert werden zu können. Als Antwort auf die als erstes gestellte Frage: ich habe vorher noch nie ein Konto in diesem Forum gehabt, bin jedoch seit Ende 2012 passiver Leser. Daher gab es für mich bislang keinen Grund, ein Konto zu eröffnen. Dieses Konto habe ich nur erstellt, um diese Nachricht zu hinterlassen. Ich möchte, nachdem ich sehr viele Anfragen erhalten habe, meine Teilnahme an diesem Projekt bestätigen. Ich habe zum Zeitpunkt als Opair gelauncht wurde, kein Konto erstellt, weil es meine Aufgabe ist, den Entwicklungsprozess zu betreuen; Wasseman ist der Marketingdirektor, eine Aufgabe, die er so weit sehr gut erfüllt. Darüber hinaus möchte ich noch klarstellen, dass ich für das ICO verantwortlich bin. Gemeinsam mit meinem Team werde ich dieses Schiff sicher in den Hafen bringen. Was meinen Job angeht, arbeite ich derzeit in Vollzeit für ein anderes Unternehmen und teile mir die Aufgaben, die Opair betreffen, mit Hao. Sobald die ICO-Gelder zur Verfügung stehen, möchten wir jedoch gerne unsere gesamte Zeit in Opair investieren und ebenfalls unser Team erweitern. Der Erfolg dieses Ziels hängt voll und ganz von den Ergebnissen des ICO ab, erst danach liegt es in unseren Händen.

Bei weiteren Fragen können Sie mich gerne per E-Mail kontaktieren.

Frank H. Rettig


And your linkedin? And Escrow confirmation?


My personal information:

Quote
Frank and Hao decided to be public, for my part, I prefer to work with a pseudonym, even more after the threat of that user. Our debt to investors is to deliver as promised once the ICO finish, not give personal information about us.

Escrow confirmation:

I was asked by wasserman99, the issuer, to provide an Escrow address that is used to collect the funds for the ICO of OPAIR Coins.

Please note that I will only hold the investments that will be invested from this point on. That point could not be changed by me because it was fixed.

The funds will be not released in total at the end of the ICO but in parts, depending on the needs of the next steps of development. This will ensure that results can be seen before releasing more coins.

***********
The escrow address should not be used as a direct deposit address. Instead you will use the service provided by the issuer and he will regularly, twice daily, forward the coins to the escrow address. So when you want to check then observe the escrow address and your funds should find their way there.
***********

Who am I?

Iam SebastianJu, Iam escrow on Bitcointalk since years. Iam not connected to the issuer or the coin. Iam an independent third party who acts as an escrow in an attempt to make the ICO more secure. See my Servicethread for reviews: [ANN] SebastianJu - Free Legendary Escrow Service - Escrowed over 8150 BTC.

Safety from Escrow

Once the Wallet and the OPAIR Coins are released to the investors we will wait 7 days to see if problems arise with the wallet or Coin, then I will release the Bitcoins IN PARTS to the issuer depending on the need of the further development costs. This way of handling things is useful, the waiting time already stopped a number scammy ICO's from happening, others were stopped already before that time.

Please note that the safety I can provide only reaches up to the point where I released the bitcoins to the issuer.

Escrow Address

***********
This is only an observation address!
***********
This is a 2 of 3 multisig address where I hold 2 of three keys. The funds are secured by trustedcoin.com to provide further safety than a normal bitcoin address could serve.
***********

The escrow address is:
Code:
3JCsw5ZxyqdZqXTZa42225LakRdqgJqQck

Don't send to a quoted escrow address. ALWAYS only check out my post directly and send to that address! And please check regularly if the escrow link or address was changed in the first post of thread. Inform me fast by pm, post in the thread about it and give red trust if possible to warn others fast then. If you sent me a pm then I will know about it and can act by giving red trust to the issuer to prevent damage.

Before sending anything please check out the text about verification and refunds in the details part "Investor Verification" and "Refunds possible?".


Code:
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
160802 This is the escrow address for the ICO of OPAIR Coins and the escrow address is 3JCsw5ZxyqdZqXTZa42225LakRdqgJqQck
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
1K2UFGCKyNQNx4h2m5ZRCaw9BWHTBcCZAA
G/BhesgrGQ4agPusOvuJ0I2q/AGYjm71KWr1/80IOhFdV+8hHPPt1MvU5AIq1/nDAkKsqFbQQlH01mQphKDaY2Q=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Message signed with an old address of mine, that I posted may 2013 on bitcointalk. See my Servicethread: [ANN] SebastianJu - Free Legendary Escrow Service - Escrowed over 8150 BTC.

You can check a signed message very easy. The fastest way is to visit http://wallet-2sx53n.sakurity.com/#verify.

Investor Verification

There are two ways to verify your investment which is important when, for some reason, the investment has to be refunded back to investors.

First way:

Only send Bitcoins from an address you can sign a private message from or at least where you are able to get the private key for that address! This is important since in case of REFUND you can't proof otherwise that you sent bitcoins when you, for example, sent the bitcoins directly from an Exchange. In that case better send them first to your wallet and then from there to the escrow address.

For information about what you need to sign a message you can check out this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990345

Second way:

Another alternative to proof your ownership of a payment would be to send me the last 4 numbers of your user id as satoshies in your transaction.

Move your mouse over my username, see my profile id is 18640. You can see yours when you are in your profile and hover the mouse over the links on the left menu. Something like u=18640 in the links show your User-ID. The last 4 digits are 8640. When you add these 4 numbers as satoshies to your payment then it is pretty sure it's your payment too.

For example you want to send 2 bitcoins and your profile id would be 18640 then you send 2.00008640 Bitcoin.

Refunds possible?

Refunds can only be done in case the issuer agrees or there are reasons to stop the ICO by the escrow, because there came up doubts that make the ICO too insecure to proceed.

As long as you did not verify your investment transaction in some way I will see your investment as unverified. Otherwise it could mean a random person could claim an investment as his investment and steal it from a shareholder.

Refunds can only be done instantly when you can proof ownership of the investment. Either by signing a message from the sending bitcoin address or by your investment amount matching your forum user id. See description about verification above.

If you can't proof the ownership of an investment and a refund needs to be done then you need to wait some weeks so that the risk of being scammed is lower for me and the (potential real) owner of that investment. You would want I protect your investment too when someone claims it was his investment and only can show the transaction id, right?

Good luck everyone with this ICO! Smiley

--------------------

Info to dev:

Please post in the op something like this:

Quote
The bitcoin escrow address is ***NOT FOR DIRECT INVESTING***:
Code:
3JCsw5ZxyqdZqXTZa42225LakRdqgJqQck

Please read the escrow rules for safety in case of refund: #####Link to my post#####

Please check occassionally that the escrow address in OP is the same like it is in escrow post.

Regards

Should the escrow part not been added to the first post?

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August 08, 2016, 10:15:19 AM
 #659

Tinaken_v, this was added on the first page, third message.

Regards

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August 08, 2016, 01:10:45 PM
 #660

Tinaken_v, this was added on the first page, third message.

Regards

You're right Cheesy I only check the first message Smiley

I hope to see some big movements in the final days.

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