[PRE-ANN] OPAIR | Decentralized Debit Cards | OCaml | New Blockchain Platform

[wasserman99]

Hi,

We can start to work with the funds of the first phase, we never said otherwise (please everyone read the conversation between me and SebastianJu). The problem is that as you will see the willingness of SebastianJu is not release the funds and not accept any of our plans. Whereupon we can not distribute all the XPO or putting together a work plan assuming that we have all the funds, and then after two weeks he refunds all funds. We need an agreement to support it. There is a problem of mistrust. So I think the best at this time is that SebastianJu offer a period of time (7-15 days) so that users who want can request a refund and move on. For a couple of days we can hear the opinions from investors here and during the weekend I will ask SebastianJu to make a decision and together reach to a clear agreement.

Regards

[1714509016]

1714509016

[1714509016]

1714509016

[1714509016]

1714509016

[BigWait]

Hi,

We can start to work with the funds of the first phase, we never said otherwise (please everyone read the conversation between me and SebastianJu). The problem is that as you will see the willingness of SebastianJu is not release the funds and not accept any of our plans. Whereupon we can not distribute all the XPO or putting together a work plan assuming that we have all the funds, and then after two weeks he refunds all funds. We need an agreement to support it. There is a problem of mistrust. So I think the best at this time is that SebastianJu offer a period of time (7-15 days) so that users who want can request a refund and move on. For a couple of days we can hear the opinions from investors here and during the weekend I will ask SebastianJu to make a decision and together reach to a clear agreement.

Regards

if beta wallet can luanched same time .
everything is not problem.
people just not want to pay for a basic wallet.

[hollandvan]

Hi,

We can start to work with the funds of the first phase, we never said otherwise (please everyone read the conversation between me and SebastianJu). The problem is that as you will see the willingness of SebastianJu is not release the funds and not accept any of our plans. Whereupon we can not distribute all the XPO or putting together a work plan assuming that we have all the funds, and then after two weeks he refunds all funds. We need an agreement to support it. There is a problem of mistrust. So I think the best at this time is that SebastianJu offer a period of time (7-15 days) so that users who want can request a refund and move on. For a couple of days we can hear the opinions from investors here and during the weekend I will ask SebastianJu to make a decision and together reach to a clear agreement.

Regards

if beta wallet can luanched same time .
everything is not problem.
people just not want to pay for a basic wallet.

Your concern is right, beta wallet in OCaml will indirectly show this project is legit, and 2 devs are real devs. Then release the escrow is reasonable. The price will fly.

[ttookk]

Hi,

We can start to work with the funds of the first phase, we never said otherwise (please everyone read the conversation between me and SebastianJu). The problem is that as you will see the willingness of SebastianJu is not release the funds and not accept any of our plans. Whereupon we can not distribute all the XPO or putting together a work plan assuming that we have all the funds, and then after two weeks he refunds all funds. We need an agreement to support it. There is a problem of mistrust. So I think the best at this time is that SebastianJu offer a period of time (7-15 days) so that users who want can request a refund and move on. For a couple of days we can hear the opinions from investors here and during the weekend I will ask SebastianJu to make a decision and together reach to a clear agreement.

Regards

Trying to antagonize SebastianJu is a flag so red it screams "communism!"

Seriously though, instead of letting inevstors ask for a refund, I think the better way would be to ask investors the opposite: Whether they want their BTC to be forwarded to Opair. Who doesn't react in time gets their BTC back.

Apart from that, I have the popcorn ready.

[XbladeX]

....
Your concern is right, beta wallet in OCaml will indirectly show this project is legit, and 2 devs are real devs. Then release the escrow is reasonable. The price will fly.

And Devs were "working" on wallet, we had some pictures of it...
No one wants from you full debic card now but see that you are real devs.
Buying basic wallet is cost between 0.1-0.5 BTC on market that proves nothing.
you can take 9% of POW as development found not much people will cry about it
since project rised less money than intended.

[kooke]

I am here...i thinks the best is offer to refund to anyone (second phase) who want to exit and release, under certains circumstances, the funds.
Since the escrow not want to go slack, i'll copy here some comments:

bitcurious [6:32 AM] 
01) Release a "beta" wallet 02) Distribute XPO in accordance with the BTC you have access to and put the XPO related to escrow funds on hold until you actually get the funds since this has influence on the total distribution- if you don't receive the funds burn the XPO. 03) Show some action and code on github repository. 04) Launch a beta version. 05) Try to get XPO listed on one or more exchanges. | You should be able to realize this without any funds currently waiting in escrow. (edited)

[6:37] 
+ Pay signature campaign bonuses from the funds you have and get it over with, consider voting on changing the purpose of the 9% XPO reserved for PoW and instead use it as a means to fund yourself if possible.

opair [7:15 AM] 
bitcurious your proposal is interesting but the point 2)  makes no sense, wa cant distribute some xpo to investors and hold the other part. And yes we can start to work with the funds of the first phase, we never said otherwise. The problem is that as you will see the willingness of SebastianJu is not release the funds and not accept any of our plans. Whereupon we can not distribute all the XPO or putting together a work plan assuming that we have all the funds, and then two weeks he refunds all funds. There is a problem of mistrust. So I think it is best at this time is that SebastianJu offer a period of time so that users can request a refund.
For a couple of days we can hear from investors here and during the weekend I will ask SebastianJu to make a decision.

bitcurious [7:17 AM] 
I that case you can't distribute anything

opair [7:18 AM] 
Yes, we can start the distribution when we made an agreement with sebastianJu
but that is not the case yet.

bitcurious [7:20 AM] 
- Yah.. I thought my plan would allow you to move forward with distribution . Just don't send the escrow related XPO to the wallets.
Then if there are refunds you burn the XPO related to those funds

opair [7:22 AM] 
So, only distribute 35%?..its unfair for the other investors

bitcurious [7:23 AM] 
It only matter when you will get listed on an exchange

opair [7:23 AM] 
you, with your money and the wallet, could start mining or sell, etc

bitcurious [7:24 AM] 
Where am I gonna mine, there is nothing
Where should I send the XPO I sell over the counter?

opair [7:27 AM] 
if we release the wallet, you could start to mining (we offer a pow phase as you know), and between the initial distribution to the 35% and after sebastianju release the funds could happen a month or more...in this time the coin could be added to an exchange. Again, its unfair.

bitcurious [7:30 AM] 
Who ever said the world is a fair place.. Then just do whatever you had planned.

opair [7:31 AM] 
I am trying to launch as fair as possible...so first we need to reach an agreement with sebastianju, we dont have another option

bitcurious [7:32 AM] 
So if I understand correct the discussion is not about escrow rules but about the choice // refund or no-refund. I you choose no-refund people agree ALL funds will be released.

opair [7:33 AM] 
No...the discussion is about to reach an agreement of the conditions to release the remaining funds.

bitcurious [7:33 AM] 
You'll be discussing till the end of time

opair [7:34 AM] 
We offer a few plans and he decline all of them, so now we said him: You decided what will be the plan but we need a solution as soon as possible.
I know, so we said him that offer a plenty of time to refund users and after that (when only the users who trust in us are onboard) release the funds after 7 days we release the wallet but he also has doubts about this plan, and made public the whole conversation.

bitcurious [7:39 AM] 
I read that yes. Like I said that it will be a never ending story. You say you need funds to realize non-existing milestones and SJ wants to see milestones before giving you the funds.. hmmmm.. problem

opair [7:40 AM] 
So, the best option is offer a refund who want exit and release the remaining, no?
everyone can choose

bitcurious [7:40 AM] 
I am fine with that..



Another option if the investors make the decision, so we can have a vote after verify with SJ our investment, but base the votes based on contribution to the ICO.
So somebody who invested 2 btc would get 2 votes compared to one vote for somebody who  invested 1 BTC.

And as XbladeX said (and a lot of users on slack), the devs could change the rules (if EVERYONE its ok with that) and take the 9% pow phase as premine to have more funds.

Good health to Opair!

[coinmenace]

Why does dev team need 7BTC from the 2nd Phase ICO to pay out the signature bounty? None of the bounties are paid in BTC, all in Opair tokens. Dev just needs to pre-mine these (create something out of thin air) and set it aside for the bounties. Besides they've got around 70 BTC collected that were not escrowed.

[tomkat]

Just tell me how is that possible that Lisk team, for instance (and not only them), could launch the project without having access to all funds, and you Opair guys can't do the same?
Basically, you should release your wallet, do the distribution, and then proceed according to your plan/schedule/(whatever) and ask Sebastian to release the escrowed funds in parts depending on your milestones. That's easy, isn't it?

[tomkat]

Why does dev team need 7BTC from the 2nd Phase ICO to pay out the signature bounty? None of the bounties are paid in BTC, all in Opair tokens. Dev just needs to pre-mine these (create something out of thin air) and set it aside for the bounties. Besides they've got around 70 BTC collected that were not escrowed.

Signature bounties will be paid in BTC, not XPO

[wasserman99]

Just tell me how is that possible that Lisk team, for instance (and not only them), could launch the project without having access to all funds, and you Opair guys can't do the same?
Basically, you should release your wallet, do the distribution, and then proceed according to your plan/schedule/(whatever) and ask Sebastian to release the escrowed funds in parts depending on your milestones. That's easy, isn't it?

It is very different, for several reasons:

1) A larger team.
2) They gathered thousands of bitcoins, which could handle more freely. In our case, we must manage the funds in the best way possible.
3) They were sure they would get these funds because they controlled 2 of 3 keys.

We simply want to reach an agreement with the escrow to know how they will release the funds. But since we do not reach an agreement, we offered to make a refund to everyone who wants to leave the project and released the remaining funds.

Please read the conversation between me and SebastianJu and this between me and bitcurious on the slack: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558596.msg16110385#msg16110385, its all very well explained.

Regards

[YIz]

Just tell me how is that possible that Lisk team, for instance (and not only them), could launch the project without having access to all funds, and you Opair guys can't do the same?
Basically, you should release your wallet, do the distribution, and then proceed according to your plan/schedule/(whatever) and ask Sebastian to release the escrowed funds in parts depending on your milestones. That's easy, isn't it?

It is very different, for several reasons:

1) A larger team.
2) They gathered thousands of bitcoins, which could handle more freely. In our case, we must manage the funds in the best way possible.
3) They were sure they would get these funds because they controlled 2 of 3 keys.

We simply want to reach an agreement with the escrow to know how they will release the funds. But since we do not reach an agreement, we offered to make a refund to everyone who wants to leave the project and released the remaining funds.

Please read the conversation between me and SebastianJu and this between me and bitcurious on the slack: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558596.msg16110385#msg16110385, its all very well explained.

Regards

You have to find a solution with him or refund everyone. he cannot just refund who wants a refund and then send you the rest, because then the safety escrow provides is gone. it will have to be released in a few parts after you accomplish the promised goals.

[XbladeX]

...
Signature bounties will be paid in BTC, not XPO

What is problem with that since they have 65BTC from 1st stage not under escrow founds they can use it as they want.
Even pay those 7BTC bounties that still will be 58*580=33 640 $ in hand without escrow. O.o

[Lazarus2016]

Just tell me how is that possible that Lisk team, for instance (and not only them), could launch the project without having access to all funds, and you Opair guys can't do the same?
Basically, you should release your wallet, do the distribution, and then proceed according to your plan/schedule/(whatever) and ask Sebastian to release the escrowed funds in parts depending on your milestones. That's easy, isn't it?

It is very different, for several reasons:

1) A larger team.
2) They gathered thousands of bitcoins, which could handle more freely. In our case, we must manage the funds in the best way possible.
3) They were sure they would get these funds because they controlled 2 of 3 keys.

We simply want to reach an agreement with the escrow to know how they will release the funds. But since we do not reach an agreement, we offered to make a refund to everyone who wants to leave the project and released the remaining funds.

Please read the conversation between me and SebastianJu and this between me and bitcurious on the slack: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558596.msg16110385#msg16110385, its all very well explained.

Regards

Sorry, but I also did a ICO working with SebastianJU and I believe it is the responsibility of dev to make sure that your coin is launched without any problems. It has nothing to do with thousands of bitcoins. I receive 3 BTC!!!!!! And I have launch my coin on time.

[tomkat]

Just tell me how is that possible that Lisk team, for instance (and not only them), could launch the project without having access to all funds, and you Opair guys can't do the same?
Basically, you should release your wallet, do the distribution, and then proceed according to your plan/schedule/(whatever) and ask Sebastian to release the escrowed funds in parts depending on your milestones. That's easy, isn't it?

It is very different, for several reasons:

1) A larger team.
2) They gathered thousands of bitcoins, which could handle more freely. In our case, we must manage the funds in the best way possible.
3) They were sure they would get these funds because they controlled 2 of 3 keys.

We simply want to reach an agreement with the escrow to know how they will release the funds. But since we do not reach an agreement, we offered to make a refund to everyone who wants to leave the project and released the remaining funds.

Please read the conversation between me and SebastianJu and this between me and bitcurious on the slack: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558596.msg16110385#msg16110385, its all very well explained.

Regards

Well, and why are you not sure you will get the funds?
I don't know if Sebastian got any milestones from you. If not, then you should only provide him with a schedule, and proceed.
For me it's way too complex than it should be, really - the non-escrowed amount should be enough to reach the point required for the escrowed part(s).

[MoneyJ]

DEv has time and again said in a matter of two weeks they will be able to release initial wallet for funds to be transferred.

[kooke]

@Lazarus2016, haha its not the same. Congrats for your project, but the scale of this project is like lisk-eth, not just a wallet. If you read, they dont have problem to release the wallet, the problem is about the agreement with sj about what happen next.

@tomkat, if you read all the conversations you will see that they offered a few plans to sj but he dont like it any of them. So they think the best is offer a refund to anyone who want exit and release the remaining funds after they launch the wallet and make the distribution. I think its a fair option.

Read this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558596.msg16110385#msg16110385), some extract:

And yes we can start to work with the funds of the first phase, we never said otherwise. The problem is that as you will see the willingness of SebastianJu is not release the funds and not accept any of our plans. Whereupon we can not distribute all the XPO or putting together a work plan assuming that we have all the funds, and then two weeks he refunds all funds. There is a problem of mistrust. So I think it is best at this time is that SebastianJu offer a period of time so that users can request a refund.
For a couple of days we can hear from investors here and during the weekend I will ask SebastianJu to make a decision.
We offer a few plans and he decline all of them, so now we said him: You decided what will be the plan but we need a solution as soon as possible.
I know, so we said him that offer a plenty of time to refund users and after that (when only the users who trust in us are onboard) release the funds after 7 days we release the wallet but he also has doubts about this plan, and made public the whole conversation.

Good health to Opair!

[trademark]

...
Signature bounties will be paid in BTC, not XPO

What is problem with that since they have 65BTC from 1st stage not under escrow founds they can use it as they want.
Even pay those 7BTC bounties that still will be 58*580=33 640 $ in hand without escrow. O.o

It's looking fishier by the day.  Kind of looks like wasserman99 wants the rest of the btc after releasing a basic wallet that can be made for 0.1btc and then bailing.  There's still no proof that Frank and Hao even exists. 

[Dank Frank]

People who participated the signature campaign please send your btc address to Avirunes.

[placebo]

...
Signature bounties will be paid in BTC, not XPO

What is problem with that since they have 65BTC from 1st stage not under escrow founds they can use it as they want.
Even pay those 7BTC bounties that still will be 58*580=33 640 $ in hand without escrow. O.o

Indeed... they should already pay out those bounties. I didn't join the signature but I join the ICO and I don't like the way how this thread is turning out. Just do the necessary things, pay the bounties, agree with Sebastian and get it moving. I already check with Yobit for OPAIR listing, so DEV don't let me down!!!

[placebo]

...
Signature bounties will be paid in BTC, not XPO

What is problem with that since they have 65BTC from 1st stage not under escrow founds they can use it as they want.
Even pay those 7BTC bounties that still will be 58*580=33 640 $ in hand without escrow. O.o

It's looking fishier by the day.  Kind of looks like wasserman99 wants the rest of the btc after releasing a basic wallet that can be made for 0.1btc and then bailing.  There's still no proof that Frank and Hao even exists. 

He would be stupid, if he payout those bounties then Sebastian will more likely willing to give the other BTCs so he is trying to save 7 BTC and lose 200 BTC or what?