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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1216765 times)
Thul
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October 24, 2018, 03:45:52 PM
 #20561

[] top 200 lol after leaving the top 50
Monero
Top 10
Monero can be used.
There is "localmonero" and soon also an integration as basic currency in BISQ to change Fiat directly into Monero (and vice versa).

Since BISQ is open source, it shouldn't be too difficult to modify the code in a way that it can be used within the bite ball wallet.

The gamblers who buy/sell bite ball via centralized exchanges certainly don't contribute to a meaningful distribution.
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October 24, 2018, 04:07:05 PM
 #20562

We are making the first step towards decentralization of witnesses.

First Decentralized Witness Candidate — Rogier Eijkelhof

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/0*WzJ132qLO5CPfQbZ

Full story: https://medium.com/byteball/first-decentralized-witness-candidate-rogier-eijkelhof-9e5619166334
Interview: https://youtu.be/TI7cb57Yu9A
Witness pledge: https://www.docdroid.net/pqmfskj/rogier-eijkelhof-byteball-witness-pledge.pdf

Your action is required to support the candidate, see the story above.





Decentralized? He looks pretty "in-one-piece-ish" to me...

12 public witnesses, explained in whitepaper
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October 24, 2018, 04:13:37 PM
 #20563

Some customers who are rather inexperienced with Cryptocurrencies buy Bitcoins. Why? Because it's easy.

Bitcoin is not attractive because it is technically better than other coins, but because you can USE this currency. That's why this coin is becoming increasingly popular, while bite ball and other projects are dependent on the greed of fugitive speculators, who certainly don't want to use these coins to pay for goods and services.

The compulsive effort to get bite ball among the people will certainly not contribute to its spread. On the contrary, everyone who gets the coins for free will either forget them, bet them or convert them into Fiat as soon as possible, because you can't do anything else with them.
And therefore the bite ball commuity remains small and insignificant... and probably dissolves more and more.


Many people will disagree with you what is technically better, but the truth is, BTC is not going anywhere and in some sense it will always be better than others, but not for everything, so that's why there is room for altcoins. Some altcoins will do some stuff better, will be technically better in some areas, but worse in some other.

It is funny that you list one of the use cases what you can do with it (betting) and then say you can't do anything else with them. That is literally what some cryptocurrency projects have made ICOs about (whole cryptocurrency for just betting), but on Byteball you can already do that and it is just one of the use cases. You CAN USE many other features on Byteball too, some people do it too already, like creating 1-year vested contracts or issuing tokens without writing single line of code.

The main difference is that when mainstream media talks about cryptocurrencies then they talk about Bitcoin because it is the oldest and the biggest. Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency everybody learn about because it is the most talked about and well known.

Top cryptocurrencies generally get fiat pairs first, but all centralized exchanges need to do KYC when handling fiat. Byteball does that too and that's why you can buy GBYTE with fiat too. It helps getting more new users get GBYTE easier, but it is not a magic bullet because Byteball is not as well known.

BTC is 9 years old, Byteball is less than 2, but for some reason, you think in order to be successful, it should have already catched up BTC? Or, if it hasn't done it with 2 years then it will never become anything and always remain small and insignificant?



byteball is only 22 months old and development wise has done far more than btc did in its first 5 years
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October 24, 2018, 05:26:16 PM
 #20564

No, currently it is still pretty centralized. All or most servers are still controlled/run by Tony. The whitepaper explains how it should be some time in the future when very honest people are chosen to be witnesses which have an interest to run the network correctly and to stabilize it.

(At least this was the situation two months ago when I took a closer look into the whitepaper; could have been changed since then but as far as I know it did not)

We are making the first step towards decentralization of witnesses.

First Decentralized Witness Candidate — Rogier Eijkelhof



Full story: https://medium.com/byteball/first-decentralized-witness-candidate-rogier-eijkelhof-9e5619166334
Interview: https://youtu.be/TI7cb57Yu9A
Witness pledge: https://www.docdroid.net/pqmfskj/rogier-eijkelhof-byteball-witness-pledge.pdf

Your action is required to support the candidate, see the story above.





Decentralized? He looks pretty "in-one-piece-ish" to me...

12 public witnesses, explained in whitepaper
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October 24, 2018, 05:54:42 PM
 #20565

Since BISQ is open source, it shouldn't be too difficult to modify the code in a way that it can be used within the bite ball wallet.

Do it! You will be our hero.
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October 24, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
 #20566

Whenever I stare at the moon at night, I notice if its a full moon or not. Whenever its a full moon, I automatically think "Oh, Full moon, means we will get an airdrop tonight", and then I realize that the airdrops are no more.

Anyone here feeling the same way whenever they see a full moon? I actually learnt a few things about full moons due to these airdrops. It was always fun waiting for them.

Those were the days in 2017.
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October 24, 2018, 06:36:04 PM
 #20567


If I dont forget it, I will let you know in a week or so how many points i made.



well, i made 37,289 points with my vps since i posted the instructions.
10 days => 3'728.9 / day.
=> about 26 days to receive 1$ in bytes (100k points = 1$)
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October 24, 2018, 06:41:16 PM
 #20568

Whenever I stare at the moon at night, I notice if its a full moon or not. Whenever its a full moon, I automatically think "Oh, Full moon, means we will get an airdrop tonight", and then I realize that the airdrops are no more.

Anyone here feeling the same way whenever they see a full moon? I actually learnt a few things about full moons due to these airdrops. It was always fun waiting for them.

Those were the days in 2017.

Interesting fact, in Finnish language, month means same as moon and every month name ends with the word "kuu" http://www.finteresting.net/2016/01/29/the-months-in-finnish/

Same in Estonian language, but more universal names are used now, but folklore has month names that describing the farming year.

And even now, some still keep naming full moons https://www.space.com/39238-full-moon-names.html
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October 24, 2018, 09:01:01 PM
 #20569

Whenever I stare at the moon at night, I notice if its a full moon or not. Whenever its a full moon, I automatically think "Oh, Full moon, means we will get an airdrop tonight", and then I realize that the airdrops are no more.

Anyone here feeling the same way whenever they see a full moon? I actually learnt a few things about full moons due to these airdrops. It was always fun waiting for them.

Those were the days in 2017.
My girlfriend and me, too  Grin all full moon.
Epic would be a last drop (maybe blackbytes) if all bytes are distributed.

I attested today 5 news users in real life Wink
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October 25, 2018, 07:17:49 AM
 #20570

No, currently it is still pretty centralized. [...]
Whether it's one or twelve witnesses, it makes no difference.
"Decentralized" is certainly not.

As storage of values bite ball is therefore hardly to be used (even if the witnesses route over TOR). But that's not what it's meant for (is it?).

The management is still silent about whether they are even thinking in the desired direction from the consumer's point of view.

I would like to have some clarity.
A simple announcement "yes, we are working on integrating the Fiat exchange (=> BISQ) directly into the bite ball wallet" would be helpful.
The opposite of course, too, then I can finally tick off bite ball after all the disappointing last months.
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October 25, 2018, 09:34:10 AM
 #20571

I encourage whole Byteball team to see some Antonopoulos videos to know why byteball is not decentralized, and why you should not market the platform focusing on that. Because it is not true.

12 witnesses = 12 central points of failure but, of course, with the same power of another node (no absolute power like dpos crap) and marked as trustable by majority of users.

Byteball distributes trust amongst 12 witnesses. It is a distributed trust system, not a decentralized one. Decentralized implies no single point of failure, and this is not the case.

I think new platform name should reflect all those things.
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October 25, 2018, 09:56:08 AM
 #20572

I encourage whole Byteball team to see some Antonopoulos videos to know why byteball is not decentralized, and why you should not market the platform focusing on that. Because it is not true.

12 witnesses = 12 central points of failure but, of course, with the same power of another node (no absolute power like dpos crap) and marked as trustable by majority of users.

Byteball distributes trust amongst 12 witnesses. It is a distributed trust system, not a decentralized one. Decentralized implies no single point of failure, and this is not the case.

I think new platform name should reflect all those things.
indeed substitution of concepts does more harm than good
please:
distributed trust system instead of decentralized
anything over 17 tps lead to denial of service instead of scalable DAG





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October 25, 2018, 10:04:57 AM
 #20573

I encourage whole Byteball team to see some Antonopoulos videos to know why byteball is not decentralized, and why you should not market the platform focusing on that. Because it is not true.

12 witnesses = 12 central points of failure but, of course, with the same power of another node (no absolute power like dpos crap) and marked as trustable by majority of users.

Byteball distributes trust amongst 12 witnesses. It is a distributed trust system, not a decentralized one. Decentralized implies no single point of failure, and this is not the case.

I think new platform name should reflect all those things.

What is the single point of failure then? There is none. In fact, I would argue that Byteball  is more decentralized by design than Bitcoin or Ethereum. When we have a lot more than 12 different witnesses to choose from it will also be more decentralized in practice.

⚪ Byteball     ❱❱❱     I T   J U S T   W O R K S .    ❱❱❱
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October 25, 2018, 10:22:23 AM
 #20574

I encourage whole Byteball team to see some Antonopoulos videos to know why byteball is not decentralized, and why you should not market the platform focusing on that. Because it is not true.

12 witnesses = 12 central points of failure but, of course, with the same power of another node (no absolute power like dpos crap) and marked as trustable by majority of users.

Byteball distributes trust amongst 12 witnesses. It is a distributed trust system, not a decentralized one. Decentralized implies no single point of failure, and this is not the case.

I think new platform name should reflect all those things.

What is the single point of failure then? There is none. In fact, I would argue that Byteball  is more decentralized by design than Bitcoin or Ethereum. When we have a lot more than 12 different witnesses to choose from it will also be more decentralized in practice.
That would have to be thousands. - How realistic is that?

Just imagine via black bites a growing market for weapons, drugs, child pornography develops...
In connection with this, high-profile entities as witnesses? Seriously?

In the future, every witness would have to fear being overrun by the henchmen of state power.
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October 25, 2018, 10:23:31 AM
 #20575

(…)

Decentralized? He looks pretty "in-one-piece-ish" to me...

12 public witnesses, explained in whitepaper

Yes, I am aware of that and that's exactly what I was getting at.

The witnesses themselves are not decentralized; they are anything but. You have a maximum of 12 very "central" entities securing the network. And while I believe that the witnesses do not have the same amount of power as, say, EOS delegates have, it is at the very least intellectually dishonest to speak of "decentralized witnesses".

Now, maybe you could actually decentralize a witness, by making it a group of entities, playing merry-go-round or something. I think this has been discussed before.

TL;DR:
Calling a single person a "decentralized witness" is misleading.

I spare us all an inappropriate joke about certain news items and the decentralization of a human being, for obvious reasons.
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October 25, 2018, 10:49:32 AM
 #20576

I encourage whole Byteball team to see some Antonopoulos videos to know why byteball is not decentralized, and why you should not market the platform focusing on that. Because it is not true.

12 witnesses = 12 central points of failure but, of course, with the same power of another node (no absolute power like dpos crap) and marked as trustable by majority of users.

Byteball distributes trust amongst 12 witnesses. It is a distributed trust system, not a decentralized one. Decentralized implies no single point of failure, and this is not the case.

I think new platform name should reflect all those things.

What is the single point of failure then? There is none. In fact, I would argue that Byteball  is more decentralized by design than Bitcoin or Ethereum. When we have a lot more than 12 different witnesses to choose from it will also be more decentralized in practice.
That would have to be thousands. - How realistic is that?

Just imagine via black bites a growing market for weapons, drugs, child pornography develops...
In connection with this, high-profile entities as witnesses? Seriously?

In the future, every witness would have to fear being overrun by the henchmen of state power.

Thousands are not needed, we need enough to replace a compromised witness, or somebody / a business who wants to quit being one. A few dozen would be sufficient.
Fiat also has a growing market for weapons, drugs, etc. We'll have to find out how law enforcement treats "witnesses", they don't actually do anything that breaks the law you know.

⚪ Byteball     ❱❱❱     I T   J U S T   W O R K S .    ❱❱❱
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October 25, 2018, 10:53:46 AM
 #20577

(…)

Decentralized? He looks pretty "in-one-piece-ish" to me...

12 public witnesses, explained in whitepaper

Yes, I am aware of that and that's exactly what I was getting at.

The witnesses themselves are not decentralized; they are anything but. You have a maximum of 12 very "central" entities securing the network. And while I believe that the witnesses do not have the same amount of power as, say, EOS delegates have, it is at the very least intellectually dishonest to speak of "decentralized witnesses".

Now, maybe you could actually decentralize a witness, by making it a group of entities, playing merry-go-round or something. I think this has been discussed before.

TL;DR:
Calling a single person a "decentralized witness" is misleading.

I spare us all an inappropriate joke about certain news items and the decentralization of a human being, for obvious reasons.

We could also have 100 or 1000 witnesses but the platform will become less secure if you have more witnesses. A single witness has no power at all and can easily be replaced by users. Users have the real power in the Byteball network, not witnesses. Only when 6 or more witnesses collude they can harm the network, but they still can't change anything in the past. In fact they have very limited options for abuse.

⚪ Byteball     ❱❱❱     I T   J U S T   W O R K S .    ❱❱❱
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October 25, 2018, 11:16:41 AM
 #20578

 ?
ttookk
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October 25, 2018, 11:25:50 AM
 #20579

(…)

Decentralized? He looks pretty "in-one-piece-ish" to me...

12 public witnesses, explained in whitepaper

Yes, I am aware of that and that's exactly what I was getting at.

The witnesses themselves are not decentralized; they are anything but. You have a maximum of 12 very "central" entities securing the network. And while I believe that the witnesses do not have the same amount of power as, say, EOS delegates have, it is at the very least intellectually dishonest to speak of "decentralized witnesses".

Now, maybe you could actually decentralize a witness, by making it a group of entities, playing merry-go-round or something. I think this has been discussed before.

TL;DR:
Calling a single person a "decentralized witness" is misleading.

I spare us all an inappropriate joke about certain news items and the decentralization of a human being, for obvious reasons.

We could also have 100 or 1000 witnesses but the platform will become less secure if you have more witnesses. A single witness has no power at all and can easily be replaced by users. Users have the real power in the Byteball network, not witnesses. Only when 6 or more witnesses collude they can harm the network, but they still can't change anything in the past. In fact they have very limited options for abuse.


This is no answer to my original point, which is "a single witness is not decentralized unless the witness consists of multiple entities".

You are trying to make it your point so that you can fire off what you have said earlier, so I'll play along:

Users having the real power sounds nice, but has some serious flaws. I'm too lazy to go into this, but very simplified, choosing witnesses is not much different than choosing delegates in a DPoS system. Go take a look at Lisk and EOS to see how that is going.
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October 25, 2018, 11:35:08 AM
Last edit: October 25, 2018, 11:53:56 AM by pineapple express
 #20580

My concerns are that witnesses can blacklist some users and block outgoing transactions. In this case, most users will not be affected and will not have the motivation to change witnesses.
For example some guy will open SilkRoad and accept balls. Witnesses will decide to block all outgoing transactions from the seen addresses. Most of users will not be affected and SilkRoad users will not be protected from witnesses attack.
Another example: witnesses can block outgoing transactions from the whale address to prevent the dump.
Another example: witnesses can block outgoing transactions for all transactions over $10k. Users will need to pass a KYC, fill in the declaration, indicate the origin of the money for making such transactions.
hmm maybe this is why Byterbal integrate all this KYC solutions? Sad.  Byterbal is Putin's answer to Satoshi?
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