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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1216817 times)
Thul
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November 14, 2018, 10:24:26 AM
 #20921

I observe this thread from the beginning and I'm a bit disappointed that there is no community management at all. I once had a few ideas for the bot store, the distribution and posted other things here, for example the observation, that the Byteball Explorer is unreadable for human users at the moment, etc. Maybe the ideas were crap, but you can also discuss that. No reaction from the Byteball team, although this thread has 1055 pages. I am an investor from the depths of the top 50 addresses (richlist from Byteball.fr - the site is also offline since a few days?! ....anotherone who turns away?) and disappointed that there is no reaction at all.

I will sell my byteball funds now and sell all the bytes I have kept for more than a year.

If anyone is interested, she/he can contact me.
Had Bytefan not provided the first witness for bite ball and was otherwise very engaged?

That he is now being arrogantly ignored and that instead some buffoon is being presented as the first official witness is likely to explain his reaction.
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November 14, 2018, 10:34:56 AM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 10:51:57 AM by cryptohunter
 #20922

Hello dear snowflake complainers  Grin


I know you have reading and understanding troubles, so I will limit myself to very simple and very specific questions.





So, you pretend that the Byteball team should focus exclusively on early investors, holders and speculators.


Second set of questions :

Could you explain us why ?

Could you explain us what is the added value of this group for the Byteball platform ?

Could you explain us what have they do for the Byteball platform and what have you do ?



By the way, you pretend that the Byteball team should also focus on building Blackbytes bridges with BISQ and OpenBazaar.






Don't make me wait too long, I have an article to write and your expertise will help me. By the way, don't hesitate to collaborate and don't hesitate to be more specific than yes or no answers Wink

See you soon


been explained, please go and re-read my simple explanation.

then any specific points you don't understand or do not agree with then please come back and I will assist you.

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November 14, 2018, 10:35:29 AM
 #20923

I observe this thread from the beginning and I'm a bit disappointed that there is no community management at all. I once had a few ideas for the bot store, the distribution and posted other things here, for example the observation, that the Byteball Explorer is unreadable for human users at the moment, etc. Maybe the ideas were crap, but you can also discuss that. No reaction from the Byteball team, although this thread has 1055 pages. I am an investor from the depths of the top 50 addresses (richlist from Byteball.fr - the site is also offline since a few days?! ....anotherone who turns away?) and disappointed that there is no reaction at all.

I will sell my byteball funds now and sell all the bytes I have kept for more than a year.

If anyone is interested, she/he can contact me.

Bitcointalk is not really the best place to discuss ideas. For the longest time there was no team and Tony basically had to do everything by himself. He didn't have time for community management, he was working 18 hours a day on the platform. Anyone could and still can become a contributor through github. Only a few people did. Byteball didn't have ICO funds to work with to hire a team so it had to completely depend on volunteers. Of which I was one myself. I recently joined the team though, since we do have some funds now. We discuss most things on our Slack (https://slack.byteball.org/), which is also free for anyone to join.

The biggest problem is that people just sit and wait for their coins to magically increase in value and let other people do all the work. It doesn't work like that. No community management? Volunteer to do community management, et voila, now it's there.
Oh, no, they're critical too. Criticism that is constantly ignored. With the result that the development develops some (currently) useless nonsense and the critics subsequently flee.
What's left are the Slack-sectarians who silence uncomfortable voices.
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November 14, 2018, 10:43:33 AM
 #20924

I observe this thread from the beginning and I'm a bit disappointed that there is no community management at all. I once had a few ideas for the bot store, the distribution and posted other things here, for example the observation, that the Byteball Explorer is unreadable for human users at the moment, etc. Maybe the ideas were crap, but you can also discuss that. No reaction from the Byteball team, although this thread has 1055 pages. I am an investor from the depths of the top 50 addresses (richlist from Byteball.fr - the site is also offline since a few days?! ....anotherone who turns away?) and disappointed that there is no reaction at all.

I will sell my byteball funds now and sell all the bytes I have kept for more than a year.

If anyone is interested, she/he can contact me.
Had Bytefan not provided the first witness for bite ball and was otherwise very engaged?

That he is now being arrogantly ignored and that instead some buffoon is being presented as the first official witness is likely to explain his reaction.

He was anonymous, the network can't be secured by anonymous witnesses. Plus he tried to persuade people with cashback, that's also not the idea behind being a witness. People should trust them because of their reputation not because they promise to give you a tiny amount of tx fees back (basically bribe). I'm sure Bytefan was just trying to help but he did it in the wrong way. Now he wants to sell the source code for Byteball.fr for 100GB. It was an extremely useful resource so we are debating whether we should rebuild it ourselves or buy it from him. We can't help it that he didn't quite understand the idea behind the consensus mechanism. I'm sad that he left because we could definitely have used his skills.

Rogier is not some kind of buffoon, he's a Byteball volunteer since the early days as well. He introduced many people to Byteball and is also a mod in the Byteball Telegram. He actively works on BTC acceptance in the real world and when he has the time will also integrate Bytes in his crypto payment processor software that is used by hundreds of merchants and web shops throughout Europe. I assume you didn't read the article or watched the interview. He's an excellent candidate.

⚪ Obyte     ❱❱❱     I T   J U S T   W O R K S .    ❱❱❱
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November 14, 2018, 10:58:18 AM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 11:14:50 AM by cryptohunter
 #20925

I observe this thread from the beginning and I'm a bit disappointed that there is no community management at all. I once had a few ideas for the bot store, the distribution and posted other things here, for example the observation, that the Byteball Explorer is unreadable for human users at the moment, etc. Maybe the ideas were crap, but you can also discuss that. No reaction from the Byteball team, although this thread has 1055 pages. I am an investor from the depths of the top 50 addresses (richlist from Byteball.fr - the site is also offline since a few days?! ....anotherone who turns away?) and disappointed that there is no reaction at all.

I will sell my byteball funds now and sell all the bytes I have kept for more than a year.

If anyone is interested, she/he can contact me.

I understand your pov.

However I would certainly not think of dumping your entire stash of bb right now. That could end up being a catastrophic mistake financially especially if like myself you accumulated a lot of them at a much higher rate.

Even though we don't get listened to that much I agree. I still think the development tonych has put into this and the expertise he has demonstrated deserves a MC in the top 50 already. I can not really say I have seen many more talented devs than him. Anonymint was highly interested in this design and he was never interested in 1000's of other projects.

That is just my opinion but of course it is up to you and I may not be correct. I can not see 50 projects better than this.

With a few improvements and a bit of a push this will have a huge upswing i think.

If the community could just unite a bit that would help.

The issue is some of the bb team take suggestions that are meant well and to help bb as criticism and that makes no sense. The main points I see mentioned are not even technical things they are simple things regarding distribution and changing exchange units. these are not even huge issues at this point. Merely suggestions.

Bitcointalk is underrated it is the jumping point for new cc enthusiasts and active thread here is free advertising. of course best if looks like a cohesive community.

I also strongly suggest the team start seeing hodlers as vital and constructive even if they are not doing anything else. These are your core investors that will help the MC rise and that alone is the largest and most powerful form of advertisement in an arena dominated by speculators and investors.  The time of adoption is not here and they are not ready as yet. Even btc is not widely adopted as for the other high cap super snake oil it is not adopted and will likely not get adopted. It is though widely advertised and sucks up more investment.

Hodlers are good at this stage.

Other suggestions that are made by other members should not just be ignored. If the development team thinks it is not a good idea it would be best to explain the logic behind their decision not to run with that at this time. 1/ the person suggesting may not have thought of or 2/ they will at least think you have considered it.

To be clear I am a bb fan and always advertise it on my suggestion threads in the top 5. This is apparent if you just check. I would like to be a community manager here but I really think it is not possible since a community manager needs to understand a lot of the design and technical matters because they need to be answer such queries.  From all of the posters on this thread there must be one person who could do this who has a diplomatic way of posting and has technical understanding of the project.

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November 14, 2018, 11:31:01 AM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 11:43:20 AM by Thul
 #20926

He was anonymous, the network can't be secured by anonymous witnesses.
I advise everyone not to use a centralized system of twelve openly working witnesses = easy target for state attacks.

I'm sure Bytefan was just trying to help but he did it in the wrong way.
There speaks once again the accustomed arrogance.
Who decides what is right or wrong?

Rogier is not some kind of buffoon, he's a Byteball volunteer since the early days as well.
Nobody cares about that later anyway. People take what is preset. Nobody is involved in the preliminary selection of any witnesses of whom he doesn't know anybody anyway.

Come to your senses at last
- the number of witnesses should not be limited. Anyone who wants to be a witness should be able to do so.
- routes the witnesses over TOR
- client-side, random access to the witnesses

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November 14, 2018, 11:54:30 AM
 #20927

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- the number of witnesses should not be limited. Anyone who wants to be a witness should be able to do so.
it will be vulnerable to sybil attack, 51% of witnesses will belong to one person. And slow the network, users will not have main chain until witnesses in China will not confirm transactions confirmed by witnesses in Europe. When witnesses in China confirmed transactions, which still not reached the witnesses in Europe. At the same time malicious 51% of witnesses will build their own chain without transactions from Europe and China.
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November 14, 2018, 11:59:17 AM
 #20928

Byteball gets a shout out by US army:
http://madsciblog.tradoc.army.mil/tag/byteball/

Not really in a positive way, but interesting that they found it it even noteworthy. The article they cite is in Russian, but from the title suggests byteball is under Russian government control.

If you think about it, take the assumption that byteball was funded by Russian intelligence, it was probably a worthwhile venture that collected valuable information and has probably paid for itself many times over.

When Putin for next "decentralized" witness?  Cheesy
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November 14, 2018, 12:04:11 PM
 #20929

He was anonymous, the network can't be secured by anonymous witnesses.
I advise everyone not to use a centralized system of twelve openly working witnesses = easy target for state attacks.

I'm sure Bytefan was just trying to help but he did it in the wrong way.
There speaks once again the accustomed arrogance.
Who decides what is right or wrong?

Rogier is not some kind of buffoon, he's a Byteball volunteer since the early days as well.
Nobody cares about that later anyway. People take what is preset. Nobody is involved in the preliminary selection of any witnesses of whom he doesn't know anybody anyway.

Come to your senses at last
- the number of witnesses should not be limited. Anyone who wants to be a witness should be able to do so.
- routes the witnesses over TOR
- client-side, random access to the witnesses

The protocol design decides what is right or wrong, it states that witnesses must be public figures or organizations with a real word reputation at stake. Otherwise the consensus mechanism is not secure. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of design. If you don't like this principle I suggest you find another project because it is not going to change, it's fundamental to the design. Nothing to do with arrogance.

Numerous times people in this thread, including me, have tried to explain to you that a state attack on a witness doesn't mean the network stops working. I can't help it that you don't want to understand how witnesses work and what they can and can not do.

Not all people / users have to care, it would be preferable but if they don't: at least hub operators and other witnesses should care. If they do the system will work almost just as well. If nobody cares then the design will fail.

The number of witnesses is not limited, anybody can become one.
They already operate over TOR, it is a requirement to not reveal their IP to the world.
Random selection of (and access to) witnesses defeats the purpose, you still don't understand why they can't be anonymous and what they actually do to secure the network.

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November 14, 2018, 12:12:34 PM
 #20930

I observe this thread from the beginning and I'm a bit disappointed that there is no community management at all. I once had a few ideas for the bot store, the distribution and posted other things here, for example the observation, that the Byteball Explorer is unreadable for human users at the moment, etc. Maybe the ideas were crap, but you can also discuss that. No reaction from the Byteball team, although this thread has 1055 pages. I am an investor from the depths of the top 50 addresses (richlist from Byteball.fr - the site is also offline since a few days?! ....anotherone who turns away?) and disappointed that there is no reaction at all.

I will sell my byteball funds now and sell all the bytes I have kept for more than a year.

If anyone is interested, she/he can contact me.

Bitcointalk is not really the best place to discuss ideas. For the longest time there was no team and Tony basically had to do everything by himself. He didn't have time for community management, he was working 18 hours a day on the platform. Anyone could and still can become a contributor through github. Only a few people did. Byteball didn't have ICO funds to work with to hire a team so it had to completely depend on volunteers. Of which I was one myself. I recently joined the team though, since we do have some funds now. We discuss most things on our Slack (https://slack.byteball.org/), which is also free for anyone to join.

The biggest problem is that people just sit and wait for their coins to magically increase in value and let other people do all the work. It doesn't work like that. No community management? Volunteer to do community management, et voila, now it's there.
This is the challenge now on BCT most of the discussion hare are not technical it is more of price and marketing and is getting frustrating for developers to give answers to thesame question every time. So what do they do they move to another platform where discussion is less on price talk


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Thul
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November 14, 2018, 12:12:35 PM
 #20931

Byteball gets a shout out by US army:
http://madsciblog.tradoc.army.mil/tag/byteball/

Not really in a positive way, but interesting that they found it it even noteworthy. The article they cite is in Russian, but from the title suggests byteball is under Russian government control.

If you think about it, take the assumption that byteball was funded by Russian intelligence, it was probably a worthwhile venture that collected valuable information and has probably paid for itself many times over.

When Putin for next "decentralized" witness?  Cheesy
Thanks for the tip.
This would explain many things, especially the incomprehensible resistance to cognition.
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November 14, 2018, 12:25:51 PM
 #20932

@Random String Symphony

In fact, I understand very little from the technical point of view, and thus I share the state of knowledge with the masses.

What interests me as a layman:
What happens if all witnesses are shut down by state agreements and the further operation of such witnesses is made illegal internationally?

What consequences does such a scenario have for an inexperienced user of the bite ball wallet who does not read along here in the forum or on Slack or obtain information elsewhere?
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November 14, 2018, 12:36:20 PM
 #20933

I advise everyone not to use a centralized system of twelve openly working witnesses = easy target for state attacks.

It is not centralized. Please read, and then we could discuss, if your thoughts are open to critics.

https://steemit.com/byteball/@barborrico/witnesses-in-byteball

https://steemit.com/byteball/@barborrico/witnesses-in-byteball-and-ii

@Random String Symphony you have a pm
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November 14, 2018, 12:38:19 PM
 #20934

Hello cryptohunter Grin

Let me quote you first :


[...]
You should really quote the entire post and put it all into context really.
[...]


But why should I put the full quote ?


[...] you can not just grab 2 words from 2 different paragraphs and conflate them to mean the same thing.
[...]


As you wish my dear snowflake  Grin

Hello dear snowflake complainers  Grin


I know you have reading and understanding troubles, so I will limit myself to very simple and very specific questions.


First set of questions :

Do you know what is/are the Byteball product(s) ?

Do you know what is/are the Byteball specific market sector(s) ?

Do you know what is/are the Byteball target group(s) ?

Do you know how to soak up deeply the mind of the Byteball target group(s) ?

Do you know what is/are need(s) of the Byteball target group(s) ?

Do you know what is/are the Byteball method(s) to reach its aim(s) ?




So, you pretend that the Byteball team should focus exclusively on early investors, holders and speculators.


Second set of questions :

Could you explain us why ?

Could you explain us what is the added value of this group for the Byteball platform ?

Could you explain us what have they do for the Byteball platform and what have you do ?



By the way, you pretend that the Byteball team should also focus on building Blackbytes bridges with BISQ and OpenBazaar.


Third set of questions :

Do you know what is Blackbytes ?

Do you know how works Blackbytes ?

Do you know how works BISQ ?

Could you explain us why the Byteball team should help criminals ?

Could you explain us what will be the consequences for the Byteball team and the Byteball platform if they help criminals ?



Don't make me wait too long, I have an article to write and your expertise will help me. By the way, don't hesitate to collaborate and don't hesitate to be more specific than yes or no answers Wink

See you soon

Is it better now Huh

So let's analyse your answer. By honesty, I will add that you were answering to the second set of questions.


been explained, please go and re-read my simple explanation.

then any specific points you don't understand or do not agree with then please come back and I will assist you.

So, basically, you don't really answer to any question. I read all your past answers dear cryptohunter even if I was silent all this time. You are exclusively focus on early adopters, investors and speculators. Worst, you ignore totally the Byteball Foundation aims and all other Byteball target groups. And you definetly don't care about the technology or its possibilities. All your previous posts reveal it without a doubt and by consequence your opinion is biased.

I will allow myself to quote you partly one more time to prove my point.

[...]
I think we are worrying about the wrong thing at the wrong time.

CC is all about speculation right now.

Who is using eos, ada, iota, right now?

Adoption will come later. For now speculators is who you need to worry about. Give them reason to buy and hold byteball. You want to be in the top 10 to top 15 on cmc. Although we know that can be faked and means little because many have such a narrow distribution.
[...]

To conclude


Could you explain us [...] what have you do ?


I think you are just a greedy and selfish speculator who wants more free money without effort. And all your past arguments demonstrate my assumption Grin

I'm waiting better answers from you cryptohunter.

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November 14, 2018, 12:47:33 PM
 #20935

What happens if all witnesses are shut down by state agreements and the further operation of such witnesses is made illegal internationally?
Come on man, when states as a whole agreed to impose something? Are you really scared about that?

Also there would be financial incentives being a "rebel" country. Nash equilibrium.

What consequences does such a scenario have for an inexperienced user of the bite ball wallet who does not read along here in the forum or on Slack or obtain information elsewhere?
Their transactions won't confirm. Not a problem in an almost impossible case.

Same impossibility as reverting bitcoin transactions. Theoretically yes, practically no.
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November 14, 2018, 12:48:13 PM
 #20936

Byteball gets a shout out by US army:
http://madsciblog.tradoc.army.mil/tag/byteball/

Not really in a positive way, but interesting that they found it it even noteworthy. The article they cite is in Russian, but from the title suggests byteball is under Russian government control.

If you think about it, take the assumption that byteball was funded by Russian intelligence, it was probably a worthwhile venture that collected valuable information and has probably paid for itself many times over.

When Putin for next "decentralized" witness?  Cheesy

Hello jwinterm,

So, because it was founded by a Russian guy, maybe even a Russian intelligence guy, the Byteball technical proposal doesn't deserve respect ?

Who was Satoshi Nakamoto ? Could it be a CIA guy or group trying to make CIA money less trackable ?

Your argument is ridiculous.

Btw, thank you for the article :-)
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November 14, 2018, 01:16:21 PM
 #20937

Quote
Come on man, when states as a whole agreed to impose something? Are you really scared about that?
- The sale of marijuana is prohibited in most countries of the world, while the sale of tobacco and alcohol is encouraged. It has been proven that marijuana is the least harmless from this list and even contributes to the treatment of certain disorders.
- AML, KYC
- customs duties impede free trade and encourage monopolism of the elect by government
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November 14, 2018, 01:20:37 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 02:09:34 PM by Thul
 #20938

What happens if all witnesses are shut down by state agreements and the further operation of such witnesses is made illegal internationally?
Come on man, when states as a whole agreed to impose something? Are you really scared about that?

Also there would be financial incentives being a "rebel" country. Nash equilibrium.

What consequences does such a scenario have for an inexperienced user of the bite ball wallet who does not read along here in the forum or on Slack or obtain information elsewhere?
Their transactions won't confirm. Not a problem in an almost impossible case.

Same impossibility as reverting bitcoin transactions. Theoretically yes, practically no.

I'll translate the answer:
Without witnesses, the payment system would collapse.

As a result of an international mass adoption (which is what we are striving for) and under the assumption that via black bites contract killers, drugs, weapons, etc. are traded, the witnesses would get into the line of fire as a single point of failures in every state, and would also be just as easily eliminated.
Moreover, it would be questionable whether in such a negative environment reputable witnesses can be found at all.

So let us hope that there is no mass adoption?
In the shadow of Bitcoin and Monero and for a small nerdy target group bite ball could surely survive.


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November 14, 2018, 01:22:03 PM
 #20939

Byteball gets a shout out by US army:
http://madsciblog.tradoc.army.mil/tag/byteball/

Not really in a positive way, but interesting that they found it it even noteworthy. The article they cite is in Russian, but from the title suggests byteball is under Russian government control.

If you think about it, take the assumption that byteball was funded by Russian intelligence, it was probably a worthwhile venture that collected valuable information and has probably paid for itself many times over.

When Putin for next "decentralized" witness?  Cheesy

Hello jwinterm,

So, because it was founded by a Russian guy, maybe even a Russian intelligence guy, the Byteball technical proposal doesn't deserve respect ?

Who was Satoshi Nakamoto ? Could it be a CIA guy or group trying to make CIA money less trackable ?

Your argument is ridiculous.

Btw, thank you for the article :-)

It's quite a bit different than Bitcoin as I'm sure you're aware, considering one Russian guy is in control of the entire network, but that's not really what I was alluding to in terms of it being a potentially worthwhile venture for Russian intelligence.

Let's say they spent a few hundred thousand USD funding byteball and getting it off the ground. Now they get thousands of bitcoin users linking their coins to get bytes, followed by real name attestation of thousands of users, as well as steem attestation of users. For people that did all three, the Russian intelligence (or at the very least Tony) can tie together the real name, Bitcoin holdings, and political proclivities of thousands of people. Don't you think political operatives or tax authorities or police state might find this information useful? Even if it's not an intelligence operation, doesn't it make you somewhat squeamish that Tony could sell this information to Cambridge analytica or its ilk?

Yes, there's a meme about maybe the CIA launched Bitcoin, but it's not nearly such a straight line as this, and Satoshi never asked for your drivers license and a selfie.

Sorry for the whining. Carry on berating bag holders...
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November 14, 2018, 01:25:46 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 01:45:04 PM by pineapple express
 #20940

Quote
and under the assumption that via black bites contract killers, drugs, weapons, etc. are traded, the witnesses would get into the line of fire as a single point of failures in every state, and would also be just as easily eliminated.
no need even black bites, people will do it with white balls. All witnesses will be arested, because technically they are the administrators of the payment network used for illegal activities, without requirement KYC and AML for all it's users.
Bitcoin was not the first type of online money to be ever created, as it was preceded by E-Gold and Liberty Reserve, to name a few. The creator of Liberty Reserve was sentenced to 20 years in prison on May 6th.
The founder of the digital currency service Liberty Reserve has been sentenced to 20 years in prison.
Prosecutors in New York said many of its clients had been cybercriminals who had sought to move funds anonymously.
Two other men involved in the business were sentenced to shorter jail terms.
Two more people will be sentenced on 13 May.
The authorities are still trying to locate a further two suspects.
Users had to provide a name, date of birth and an email address - but prosecutors said fake credentials had been accepted.
Account holders "converted" their cash into one of the company's digital currencies, following which an "instantaneous" transfer was made and the sum converted back into real-world cash.
For this, the company charged up to $2.99 (£1.98) per transaction
Arthur Budovsky, who was responsible for creating and running this platform, was taken into custody by Spanish law enforcement agencies, and later on extradited to the US


https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36247289
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