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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1232859 times)
pineapple express
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November 14, 2018, 07:22:54 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 07:36:00 PM by pineapple express
 #20901

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If witnesses are arrested due to being byteball witnesses, I can guarantee you, world would have become something that you would desire to be in the world of the 1984 novel.
Many will agree that this will be the world in which we live now, where people ensuring the workability of payment processors used for illegal activities are imprisoned.
free, uncontrolled money is not what governments want to have. They will break any such system, provided they can.
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Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

Satoshi
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Thul
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November 14, 2018, 07:31:45 PM
 #20902

you do not understand the essence of the written

Question: How does a sectarian react to fundamental arguments?
Answer: With ignorance. It cannot be what may not be.
pineapple express
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November 14, 2018, 07:45:24 PM
 #20903

anyway where the witnesses guys? No users, no merchants, no speculators, no holders, no witnesses and no adoption. You can not continue to say that speculators donkeys, holders are harmful, merchants are not about cryptocurrency. And that adoption is the main. These are contradictory statements.
without holders you don't have community. Without community you will not have the network effects
without speculators you don't have liquidity. Without liquidity you will not have merchants
without merchants you don't have use cases. Without use cases you will not have users
Without users the coin is a shitcoin. Who will want to be a witness of shitcoin?
tarmo888
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November 14, 2018, 08:00:25 PM
 #20904

anyway where the witnesses guys? No users, no merchants, no speculators, no holders, no witnesses and no adoption. You can not continue to say that speculators donkeys, holders are harmful, merchants are not about cryptocurrency. And that adoption is the main. These are contradictory statements.
without holders you don't have community. Without community you will not have the network effects
without speculators you don't have liquidity. Without liquidity you will not have merchants
without merchants you don't have use cases. Without use cases you will not have users
Without users the coin is a shitcoin. Who will want to be a witness of shitcoin?

You are contradicting yourself too, if there is no holders then who were those Bitcoin holders who got 65% of all bytes?
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.

The problem is there is too many holders and not enough actual users. More speculators won't add any users because speculation happens on centralized exchanges and only exchanges benefit from speculators.

There are some use cases and there are some users (500-1000).
barborrico
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November 14, 2018, 08:06:03 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 11:46:35 PM by barborrico
 #20905

Quote
If witnesses are arrested due to being byteball witnesses, I can guarantee you, world would have become something that you would desire to be in the world of the 1984 novel.
Many will agree that this will be the world in which we live now, where people ensuring the workability of payment processors used for illegal activities are imprisoned.
free, uncontrolled money is not what government want to have. They will break any such system, provided they can.
Quote
Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

Satoshi
The fact is byteball does not rely on witnesses, it uses them for their "own" benefit, which is achieve deterministic transaction finality and nothing more after that.

Byteball is P2P trustless. Yes, it is a bit ugly the transition between witnesses, but it is not supossed to happen as I said in previous posts.

Anyway you replied to my personal opinion, could you reply to the argument, please? Thank you.

you do not understand the essence of the written

Question: How does a sectarian react to fundamental arguments?
Answer: With ignorance. It cannot be what may not be.
Thanks for your lack of answers to my arguments. Makes my work of spreading truth much easier.


anyway where the witnesses guys? No users, no merchants, no speculators, no holders, no witnesses and no adoption. You can not continue to say that speculators donkeys, holders are harmful, merchants are not about cryptocurrency. And that adoption is the main. These are contradictory statements.
without holders you don't have community. Without community you will not have the network effects
without speculators you don't have liquidity. Without liquidity you will not have merchants
without merchants you don't have use cases. Without use cases you will not have users
Without users any coin is a shitcoin. You will not find good 12 witnesses for shitcoin
But we have a P2P network which achieves irreversible transaction confirmation in 5-15 min.

I would reward holders a bit, I have to tell, excluding big addresses.
pineapple express
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November 14, 2018, 08:06:59 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 08:44:14 PM by pineapple express
 #20906

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If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.
actually i appreciate your work guys Wink. You are trying to do something and you are not guilty that all this is wasted.
Losing bitcoiners, removing airdropt for holders and ignoring the size of a unit and ico airdrop issues were fatal errors. Four decisions that destroyed the young community. It is difficult to create a community, but it is even more difficult to restore a destroyed community.
barborrico
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November 14, 2018, 08:41:15 PM
 #20907

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If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.
actually i appreciate your work guys Wink. You are trying to do something and you are not guilty that all this is wasted.
Losing bitcoiners, removing airdropt for holders and ignoring the size of a unit and ico airdrop issues were fatal errors. Four decisions that destroyed the young community.

Maybe you are right. Maybe we are the ashes of that community.

But...

You know what resurges from the ashes.
tarmo888
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November 14, 2018, 09:15:43 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 10:43:16 PM by tarmo888
 #20908

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If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.

If that is true, then there should be plenty of liquidity any given time. Byteball still has 25 million marketcap, you can't sell 65% without being noticeable.

It's funny how some holders get extra furious of spreading FUD every time when price drops. Some other probably hold their heads because they are speechless how shitty can one community be that it undermines its own investments with FUD even more. Thanks for all the FUD, you are doing great job.
dautay_crypto
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November 15, 2018, 02:26:29 AM
 #20909

I known about the Byteball project around one year ago, and have experienced amazing things with the project, the team, and the community.
Over time, Byteball project developed further and deeper invaded into real-life use-cases.
The Byteball community have expanded very well early months this year.
tyz
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November 15, 2018, 09:56:03 AM
 #20910

I need help with an error message that appears on client launch from one day to another. New installation of the client software did not solve the error. I use MacOs.

Message encrypted to unknown key. The error might be caused by restoring from an old backup or using the same keys on another device

Thul
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November 15, 2018, 10:55:27 AM
 #20911

"IMF says governments could set up their own cryptocurrencies "
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/14/imf-says-governments-could-set-up-their-own-cryptocurrencies

Since bite ball is obviously oriented towards the regulated Fiat markets, what advantages would this currency have over a state-regulated one?
PinchClock
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November 15, 2018, 03:39:29 PM
 #20912

The 15 November deadline is fast approaching for the writing opportunity.

There are 20 prizes and less than 20 entries, so your chances of winning are......rather good!


https://www.reddit.com/r/ByteBall/comments/9ud8j5/writers_wanted_new_byteball_contest/
tarmo888
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November 15, 2018, 08:47:59 PM
Last edit: November 15, 2018, 11:38:48 PM by tarmo888
 #20913

"IMF says governments could set up their own cryptocurrencies "
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/14/imf-says-governments-could-set-up-their-own-cryptocurrencies

Since bite ball is obviously oriented towards the regulated Fiat markets, what advantages would this currency have over a state-regulated one?

I am not worried about state-regulated cryptocurrencies, if anything, they will just bring more adoption to other cryptocurrencies.

Problem at the moment with public sector is that in every country (there are very few exceptions), they have weaker IT than private sector. This is because public sector needs to hire private sector to build them stuff they need and the one who offers the smallest price wins the job (tender). This means that public sector doesn't always get the best quality out there and they are always years behind. Years behind in blockchain technology is not competitive at all. That happens even when public sector hires private sector with service level agreement (SLA) to maintain some systems.

So, I guess first state-regulated cryptocurrencies will be forks of some existing cryptocurrencies or even tokens on some other platforms where they have option to freeze accounts and reverse transactions (maybe XRP, XLM, EOS). They could fork any other cryptocurrency and change them to their needs, but they will fall back in time as rest of the world progresses. Everybody hates public sector IT solutions (or lack of them) for a reason, they are in stone age compared to private sector.
goldart
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November 15, 2018, 11:53:23 PM
 #20914

Quote
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.

If that is true, then there should be plenty of liquidity any given time. Byteball still has 25 million marketcap, you can't sell 65% without being noticeable.

It's funny how some holders get extra furious of spreading FUD every time when price drops. Some other probably hold their heads because they are speechless how shitty can one community be that it undermines its own investments with FUD even more. Thanks for all the FUD, you are doing great job.
a lot of coins or project will disappear. but I hope byteball wont be one of these. the byteball is highly ambitious project that hold vast promise.
tarmo888
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November 16, 2018, 12:24:10 AM
 #20915

Quote
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.

If that is true, then there should be plenty of liquidity any given time. Byteball still has 25 million marketcap, you can't sell 65% without being noticeable.

It's funny how some holders get extra furious of spreading FUD every time when price drops. Some other probably hold their heads because they are speechless how shitty can one community be that it undermines its own investments with FUD even more. Thanks for all the FUD, you are doing great job.
a lot of coins or project will disappear. but I hope byteball wont be one of these. the byteball is highly ambitious project that hold vast promise.

Coins that disappeared during last big bear market (after 2014) were mostly forks of Bitcoin that had slight configuration differences (kind of like ERC20 tokens now). Those remained that were different and/or had dedicated teams to support those coins (Litecoin, XRP, Dogecoin). I listened some podcast recently where some fork author just gave up because lost interest and didn't have resources to maintain the fork.

Bear market is also great time to come up with something new (Ethereum) and be productive because everybody gets distracted when price is going up during bull market, but there is high chance that many new cryptocurrencies that launched their ICOs just on whitepapers and haven't created any working product by now, won't be able to create anything valuable for next bull-run either.

Byteball is working on creating the foundation, which has the reserves for development and maintenance and Byteball also has dedicated team.
https://medium.com/byteball/the-future-of-byteball-the-byteball-foundation-cca9d495bf46
CryptoUnicornRider
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November 16, 2018, 12:28:41 AM
Last edit: November 16, 2018, 12:39:21 AM by CryptoUnicornRider
 #20916

@unicorn

I can't quote all of that since it will take up too much space. People need to scroll up to view the previous post you made.

there is either too much being lost in translation or you simply do not understand what I am saying. Trying to deny what i have merely observed and pointed out is pointless.

Everything I have suggested in the past would have clearly benefitted the project. There is nothing more to be said about it.

No tonych was not naive we had discussed going ahead would land the largest proportions with those ico managers and exchanges.
I am not in favour of airdrops to bitcoin holders anyway just on the basis i would not give the already most wealthy the most.

I am as selfish and greedy as any other normal person here. However arguing against airdropping to btc holders was not in my financial favour since i could have linked a lot more than i did and also it suits me financially better than some of my other suggestions. Wide distributions with no immediate super whales is best.

No need to apologise for your english I can not speak french. I just believe you do not fully understand everything that I am trying to convey.

I have no problem with people saying i want more money for doing nothing. However actually I am not doing nothing and if all the effort I had put into this thread and project had had any effect the real bb holders and enthusiasts would be better off and so would tonych. Also as i have explained people who buy and hold your alt are not doing nothing. They are adding to investor confindence which is a form of free advertising and at this time the most powerful type of advertising. When everyone dumps your project and people see it sinking that is showing a lack of confidence which can self perpetuate strongly.

I would love more money for doing nothing for sure that is not something you should doubt is a primary dream of a great proportion of people in the world.

I really honestly do not see your point that you are trying to make?

Are you saying trying to get people to invest and make it look as attractive as possible to future investors and hodlers is less important than drumming up adoption with baker and piano stores. Well that is useful too but the fast route to the top 50 right now is appealing to speculators and investors. Once there you will give yourselves a lot more financial leverage to develop applications and usage and get the attention of those that already have huge opportunities waiting in terms of adoption.  You will need a lot of volume and value to bring in big adopters.

crypotounicornrider    Date Registered:   12-10-2018
tarm0888                  Date Registered:   12-10-2018


come on guys....


Hi cryptohunter,

First, my aim is not to offend you or to disrespect you. You have logical arguments and you have been here since the beginning and I respect that.

Nevertheless, I believe that your exclusive focus on investors and speculators doesn't serve the Byteball platform cause. Worst, it's fuel for pessimists and trolls.

In plus, you don't give any real consideration to Byteball platform aims : Wide adoption and real world adoption. Grossly translated, that means first mister and miss everybody and secondly the industrial, financial and retail sector even if these target groups are complementary. These groups don't care about CC markets even if financial sector could monitor it from a remote perspective.

In my opinion, investors/speculators/BTC holders were useful as a kick-starter. But now, the snowball effect doesn't need them to grow the network.

I was a Byteball BitcoinTalk thread's silent reader since January 2017. To improve my understanding of the Byteball platform, I decide to share my poor knowledge with users. Barborrico used it nicely. And I noticed that Tarmo888 subscribed the same day than myself. Two possibilities, it's a coincidence or, more egocentric, I motivate him to act :-) Only Tarmo888 can answer to it.

And I guarantee you that we are two different persons even if we have common aims. He's a lion. He spends a lot of energy trying to sanitize the Byteball BitcoinTalk thread of pessimist people. And he's doing an important job because this thread should be used to inform and help the Byteball community, not to spread pessimism. Btw, I call this kind of behaviors insider trading.

In my opinion, BitcoinTalk threads are focus on the CC market community (your target). So, I prefer focus myself on other targets. Maybe have you read some of my articles like Byteball : A pizza for two generals or Byteball : An Unstoppable Financial Revolution ;-)

I sincerely hope you'll stop to fuel pessimists and trolls. And that you review your positions about how relevant is wide adoption and real world adoption.

And I don't think that Anton Churyumov is naive. In fact, he has a master plan in mind since the beginning. But it's my personal opinion.

Pleasure to read you again.
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November 16, 2018, 02:21:08 AM
Last edit: November 16, 2018, 02:38:23 AM by tarmo888
 #20917


crypotounicornrider    Date Registered:   12-10-2018
tarm0888                  Date Registered:   12-10-2018


come on guys....


Hi cryptohunter,

First, my aim is not to offend you or to disrespect you. You have logical arguments and you have been here since the beginning and I respect that.

Nevertheless, I believe that your exclusive focus on investors and speculators doesn't serve the Byteball platform cause. Worst, it's fuel for pessimists and trolls.

In plus, you don't give any real consideration to Byteball platform aims : Wide adoption and real world adoption. Grossly translated, that means first mister and miss everybody and secondly the industrial, financial and retail sector even if these target groups are complementary. These groups don't care about CC markets even if financial sector could monitor it from a remote perspective.

In my opinion, investors/speculators/BTC holders were useful as a kick-starter. But now, the snowball effect doesn't need them to grow the network.

I was a Byteball BitcoinTalk thread's silent reader since January 2017. To improve my understanding of the Byteball platform, I decide to share my poor knowledge with users. Barborrico used it nicely. And I noticed that Tarmo888 subscribed the same day than myself. Two possibilities, it's a coincidence or, more egocentric, I motivate him to act :-) Only Tarmo888 can answer to it.

And I guarantee you that we are two different persons even if we have common aims. He's a lion. He spends a lot of energy trying to sanitize the Byteball BitcoinTalk thread of pessimist people. And he's doing an important job because this thread should be used to inform and help the Byteball community, not to spread pessimism. Btw, I call this kind of behaviors insider trading.

In my opinion, BitcoinTalk threads are focus on the CC market community (your target). So, I prefer focus myself on other targets. Maybe have you read some of my articles like Byteball : A pizza for two generals or Byteball : An Unstoppable Financial Revolution ;-)

I sincerely hope you'll stop to fuel pessimists and trolls. And that you review your positions about how relevant is wide adoption and real world adoption.

And I don't think that Anton Churyumov is naive. In fact, he has a master plan in mind since the beginning. But it's my personal opinion.

Pleasure to read you again.

I 100% agree what crypotounicornrider said, but that could be because crypotounicornrider and tarmo888 could be the same person. I guess you will never know because that what is the disadvantage of anonymous platforms. You don't know how many actual people are behind usernames, same way you can't tell how many actual people are behind Bitcoin addresses.

But wait, there is more, maybe this person who is behind these 2 accounts that agree with each other, is also behind account that is total opposite and the motivation to do this to prove why anonymous witnesses is bad idea.

Thul    Date Registered:   11-10-2018

What if it's another alter-ego of the same person:
* Thul is against KYC, I am pro-KYC.
* Thul likes blackbytes, I don't give sh|t about blackbytes (I don't have any either, never had).
* Thul thinks that Bitcoin airdrop was good idea, i think it was bad idea.
* Thul thinks random anonymous witnesses are good idea, i think it is worse idea ever.

Also, Thul is Luht backwards. Luht is common Estonian familyname and means "meadow that gets flooded" (also very common thing to happen in Estonia and Finland). Guess what is also popular is Estonia and Finland. Yeah, Tarmo means energy/power in Finnish and is firstname in Finland and Estonia. Did anybody also noticed my other fun facts about Estonian and Finnish language?

Also, Pineapple Express IS NOT me, but he has been a great inspiration because of his split-personality.
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November 16, 2018, 08:48:31 AM
 #20918

A crypto currency that wants to survive concentrates on a corresponding target group. This target group should be defined in advance and the development should be concentrated in this direction.

As soon as there are state crypto currencies, the dream of a mass adoption of free cryptos is over. Free Cryptos will only occupy small niches (if they are able to define them clearly).

There is no clearly defined target group for bite ball. Result:
"Byteball Bytes price equal to 38.946 USD at 2018-11-16, but your current investment may be devalued in the future."
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November 16, 2018, 08:56:40 AM
 #20919

A crypto currency that wants to survive concentrates on a corresponding target group. This target group should be defined in advance and the development should be concentrated in this direction.

As soon as there are state crypto currencies, the dream of a mass adoption of free cryptos is over. Free Cryptos will only occupy small niches (if they are able to define them clearly).

There is no clearly defined target group for bite ball. Result:
"Byteball Bytes price equal to 38.946 USD at 2018-11-16, but your current investment may be devalued in the future."

This is exactly what my alter-ego would say.
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November 16, 2018, 09:17:04 AM
 #20920

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Those remained that were different and/or had dedicated teams to support those coins (Litecoin, XRP, Dogecoin)
Litecoin is not different, is a worse copy of bitcoin. Shorter distance between blocks means less POW. So if you need at least 2 blocks in bitcoin, some merchants wait 6, in litecoin you will need 8 - 48 blocks to get the same security.  Again any altcoin has hash power less than 51% of the hash power aviable on the market, it always under risk of 51 attack. So it never will be as safe as bitcoin. This is why litecoin is a worse copy of bitcoin.
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