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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1229379 times)
_sunshine_
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April 08, 2017, 11:04:29 AM
 #6461

how exactly work multisig? If you choose multisig 2/3, make full backups on devices and lose three phones, can you restore access to wallet on new devices with help backups?
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tonych
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April 08, 2017, 11:24:30 AM
 #6462

I love thisproject however I have a problem with the witnesses choose mecanism, aka "12 catpains of industry" or well reputed equivalent.

First (and biggest one) : who is to coopte such "captains". In a supposed decentralysed network it means a central authority somewhere or at least a consensus voting system.
Second : what if no such "captain of industry" joins in? Should we bless project founders for eternity ? (we all die some day).
Three : 12 is a too limited number. This is intentionaly set so that we can humanely follow the witnesses quality. But I do not want to ask periodicaly myself whereas witnesses are good quality or not. I just want to feel confident with the network any time.

I would suggest the following :
- no more limited witnesses number
- all wallets could optionnaly run as witnesses
- if a end-user wishes to act as a witness is has to back some "good" amount of GBYTE (prevent spam and initial amount  for serial post).
- each time a witness serial post he is awarded  more than its post cost (aka end users are prone to become witnesses for profit)
- wallets choose their witnesses in a hard-coded random fashion among all witnesses pool.

First of all, I remind you that following the witness lists of "captains of industry" is just a suggestion how witness lists could be updated, it is not a protocol-level thing.

That said, I don't think the question of captains of industry is that hard.  If you ask me about captains of auto industry today, I would name GM, Ford, Toyota, Renault, Michelin, and a few others.  In Bitcoin industry today: AlphaBay, Coinbase, Localbitcoins, Overstock, Polo, and a few others.

Quote
But I do not want to ask periodicaly myself whereas witnesses are good quality or not.
You don't have to.  If you don't want to or feel unable to make decisions yourself in this particular area, you can always follow the opinion of someone you trust.

To clarify, there is no such thing as "wish to act as a witness", you can only "wish to be named as a witness".  Anyone can be named a witness by anyone.

The above was 100% human, 0% technical.  Regarding suggested protocol changes, all such changes should be carefully analyzed with respect to potential consequences, in particular whether they could lead to consensus failures such as forks and deadlocks.

Simplicity is beauty
hui1513
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April 08, 2017, 11:41:24 AM
 #6463

It is too bad I wasn't already wealthy in bitcoin so I could be wealthy in byteball, too.

I understand why the distribution needed to be done this way, but byteball doesn't much appeal to me (like all coins that distribute proportionally to prior wealth) because the same exact people who control the majority of wealth in bitcoin get to control the majority of wealth in byteball, without taking on any additional risk (there's no risk at all since there's no investment through mining or otherwise, so obviously risk is not proportional/does not scale at all). In other distribution models of course the wealthier you are to begin with the more you can get by investing more, but you also take on more risk proportional to how much you invest. Here the rich just get richer.

Not to mention all the projects with huge sums of bitcoin from ICOs that get huge amounts of byteball wealth off the backs of their investors. And the exchanges that get huge amounts of byteball wealth off the backs of their users.

So while the tech here appears to be groundbreaking the economics are more than a bit discouraging.
If the exchange is not allowed to bind BTC, you can solve the problem of unfair distribution。
SatoNatomato
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April 08, 2017, 12:25:21 PM
 #6464



If you just want to help out the network running a byteball-hub or relay is enough.



I have set up and now operating a new relay on a dedicated box with 300Mbps unmetered bandwidth.
Address: wss://byteball.fr/bb
Location: France

I have more than 15 years experience with Linux sysadmin. I can set up a witness if the the community asks.
Awesome!

Your hub will be auto-discovered by the rest of the network and use it, thus helping with the load.
Kryptowerk
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April 08, 2017, 12:48:13 PM
 #6465

Now you can also P2P gamble using smart contracts.



The oracle FOPUBEUPBC6YLIQDLKL6EW775BMV7YOH (which also monitors Bitcoin blockchain) posts pseudorandom numbers derived from Bitcoin block hash.  A new number is posted every time a new Bitcoin block is mined and gets one further confirmation.  The random numbers are posted under data feed name randomXXXXXX where XXXXXX is Bitcoin block number.

The numbers are between 1 and 100,000.  You can bet on a future random number being less than or greater than a specific value, for example, there is 25% chance that the number will be below 25,000 and 75% chance that it'll be above 25,000.

The above contract was between my Mac and my phone, it was created before block 460852.  This is the data feed that was posted by the oracle after this block was mined:
https://explorer.byteball.org/#Ns//o52EKR32ykuHfUfcm3ailHtta6TvM5kB07vbpVA=
bitcoin_hash: 0000000000000000019dd457cf8e233701dab44ac855492d575a4366556213e0
bitcoin_height: 460852
bitcoin_merkle: GW9cQW5m0KLIi2suUlkzRP2yurg8jLEax3uHiun7kik=
random460852: 34789

34789 is more than 25000, the Mac won.

Join #gambling channel on our Slack http://slack.byteball.org/ to find a partner for P2P dice game.

P.S.  And we didn't need to do a $2m ICO to organize this simple game.


Oh shit...! Just like that.
Congratz on the silent but super impressive developement.

Byteball will be above 0.1 soon, above $100 for sure during the next days.

||     Best crypto investment advice: Invest in your education. Watch Andreas Antonopoulos.     ||
||  My art projects: CRYPTO COSMOS: A Cryptocurrency Card Game  |  Monero XMR Postcards + more | Poster  | BTC postcardsThe Great Bitcoin Hatching: Massive artwork (limited metal plate print)  ||
||  Community Crypto Project: Bitcore BTX - hybrid fork with SegWit support and 10 MB blocks  ||
ByteFan
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April 08, 2017, 01:17:30 PM
 #6466

I love thisproject however I have a problem with the witnesses choose mecanism, aka "12 catpains of industry" or well reputed equivalent.

First (and biggest one) : who is to coopte such "captains". In a supposed decentralysed network it means a central authority somewhere or at least a consensus voting system.
Second : what if no such "captain of industry" joins in? Should we bless project founders for eternity ? (we all die some day).
Three : 12 is a too limited number. This is intentionaly set so that we can humanely follow the witnesses quality. But I do not want to ask periodicaly myself whereas witnesses are good quality or not. I just want to feel confident with the network any time.

I would suggest the following :
- no more limited witnesses number
- all wallets could optionnaly run as witnesses
- if a end-user wishes to act as a witness is has to back some "good" amount of GBYTE (prevent spam and initial amount  for serial post).
- each time a witness serial post he is awarded  more than its post cost (aka end users are prone to become witnesses for profit)
- wallets choose their witnesses in a hard-coded random fashion among all witnesses pool.

First of all, I remind you that following the witness lists of "captains of industry" is just a suggestion how witness lists could be updated, it is not a protocol-level thing.

That said, I don't think the question of captains of industry is that hard.  If you ask me about captains of auto industry today, I would name GM, Ford, Toyota, Renault, Michelin, and a few others.  In Bitcoin industry today: AlphaBay, Coinbase, Localbitcoins, Overstock, Polo, and a few others.

Quote
But I do not want to ask periodicaly myself whereas witnesses are good quality or not.
You don't have to.  If you don't want to or feel unable to make decisions yourself in this particular area, you can always follow the opinion of someone you trust.

To clarify, there is no such thing as "wish to act as a witness", you can only "wish to be named as a witness".  Anyone can be named a witness by anyone.

The above was 100% human, 0% technical.  Regarding suggested protocol changes, all such changes should be carefully analyzed with respect to potential consequences, in particular whether they could lead to consensus failures such as forks and deadlocks.

I think attracting industries leader is the gambit. But anyway your work is awesome. It is a wonderfull project I do beleive in. Sure Polo and others will beleive in too (where you Satochi Nakamoto in a previous life ?).

Back to the witnesses and human behavior. I suppose that most of the humans are as lazy as I am and will just let their wallet download the Witnesses list from the hub which is in your hands. This can be called de facto centralization.

For the future it would be nice to have some community place (on https://byteball.org/ or part of the wallet ?) where one (industry leader or average well reputed guy) could apply to be "named as a witness" and end user would vote for or against.

For all of us guys : here is the link to ask Polo to add GBYTE

Xandan
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April 08, 2017, 01:25:38 PM
 #6467

I am very excited for upcoming distribution as it is coming nearer. It will be great to get some share of them this time I am fully ready to become part of Byteball community. Bitcoin are already laying in my wallet to use them for something really good and attractive.
SatoNatomato
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April 08, 2017, 01:28:36 PM
 #6468

I love thisproject however I have a problem with the witnesses choose mecanism, aka "12 catpains of industry" or well reputed equivalent.

First (and biggest one) : who is to coopte such "captains". In a supposed decentralysed network it means a central authority somewhere or at least a consensus voting system.
Second : what if no such "captain of industry" joins in? Should we bless project founders for eternity ? (we all die some day).
Three : 12 is a too limited number. This is intentionaly set so that we can humanely follow the witnesses quality. But I do not want to ask periodicaly myself whereas witnesses are good quality or not. I just want to feel confident with the network any time.

I would suggest the following :
- no more limited witnesses number
- all wallets could optionnaly run as witnesses
- if a end-user wishes to act as a witness is has to back some "good" amount of GBYTE (prevent spam and initial amount  for serial post).
- each time a witness serial post he is awarded  more than its post cost (aka end users are prone to become witnesses for profit)
- wallets choose their witnesses in a hard-coded random fashion among all witnesses pool.

First of all, I remind you that following the witness lists of "captains of industry" is just a suggestion how witness lists could be updated, it is not a protocol-level thing.

That said, I don't think the question of captains of industry is that hard.  If you ask me about captains of auto industry today, I would name GM, Ford, Toyota, Renault, Michelin, and a few others.  In Bitcoin industry today: AlphaBay, Coinbase, Localbitcoins, Overstock, Polo, and a few others.

Quote
But I do not want to ask periodicaly myself whereas witnesses are good quality or not.
You don't have to.  If you don't want to or feel unable to make decisions yourself in this particular area, you can always follow the opinion of someone you trust.

To clarify, there is no such thing as "wish to act as a witness", you can only "wish to be named as a witness".  Anyone can be named a witness by anyone.

The above was 100% human, 0% technical.  Regarding suggested protocol changes, all such changes should be carefully analyzed with respect to potential consequences, in particular whether they could lead to consensus failures such as forks and deadlocks.

I think attracting industries leader is the gambit. But anyway your work is awesome. It is a wonderfull project I do beleive in. Sure Polo and others will beleive in too (where you Satochi Nakamoto in a previous life ?).

Back to the witnesses and human behavior. I suppose that most of the humans are as lazy as I am and will just let their wallet download the Witnesses list from the hub which is in your hands. This can be called de facto centralization.

For the future it would be nice to have some community place (on https://byteball.org/ or part of the wallet ?) where one (industry leader or average well reputed guy) could apply to be "named as a witness" and end user would vote for or against.

For all of us guys : here is the link to ask Polo to add GBYTE

Its not so much per se a gambit that industry leaders of bitcoin will take Byteball. Its more like Byteball will grow its own leaders.

The witness-list can be pulled from any hub, its a centralization/convenience exactly if you as user dont want to care but trust a hub-owner to keep up to date and do the choices for you. If you do want power and control you still have it though.

Organizing a secure voting is possible in Byteball, the network/protocol supports that. Havent seen anyone doing it yet, just mentioned in whitepaper. The place were community is now is slack and here, so here and on the slack some users have posted their witness and asked to be added by others.

Of course, it would be nice to move this community to a Byteball platform, a forum based on Byteball. That would be sweet.
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April 08, 2017, 01:58:00 PM
 #6469

what is the place for byteball's database on PC? How large is it? Can it be changed to external drive? Thanks to all who will answer
escapefrom3dom
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April 08, 2017, 02:58:43 PM
 #6470

what is the place for byteball's database on PC? How large is it? Can it be changed to external drive? Thanks to all who will answer

1. C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\byteball for windows 10.
2. 2 GB for full wallet.
3. can't find settings for the path option in the wallet but u can change system path or use symbolic links.

suspiciously square
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April 08, 2017, 03:12:08 PM
 #6471

I am very excited for upcoming distribution as it is coming nearer. It will be great to get some share of them this time I am fully ready to become part of Byteball community. Bitcoin are already laying in my wallet to use them for something really good and attractive.

There's only three days left to go until the next distribution. Bitcoin's going up so you can't lose by keeping your bitcoins in your wallet and using them to claim your free byteballs.
kola-schaar
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April 08, 2017, 03:17:17 PM
 #6472

Now you can also P2P gamble using smart contracts.
...
P.S.  And we didn't need to do a $2m ICO to organize this simple game.

Nice work! - Simplicity is beauty Smiley

Come-from-Beyond
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April 08, 2017, 03:17:56 PM
 #6473

Organizing a secure voting is possible in Byteball, the network/protocol supports that. Havent seen anyone doing it yet, just mentioned in whitepaper.

Has anyone reviewed that part?
miramare
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April 08, 2017, 03:24:40 PM
 #6474

Now you can also P2P gamble using smart contracts.
...
P.S.  And we didn't need to do a $2m ICO to organize this simple game.

Nice work! - Simplicity is beauty Smiley



Nice!

The new wave is coming.

I notice that the first round participants are really lucky.

I am new to know this. Miss the previous rounds. What a pity!
Ano
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April 08, 2017, 03:29:34 PM
 #6475

Now you can also P2P gamble using smart contracts.
...
P.S.  And we didn't need to do a $2m ICO to organize this simple game.

Nice work! - Simplicity is beauty Smiley



This is really great work done new stuff is coming no doubt this coin will get significant rise in coming days. This is great idea to hold the coins to get more from every distribution round so that I am also waiting for this round.
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April 08, 2017, 05:14:44 PM
 #6476

One more question. When signing my BB address what should I use,  cleasign or just bare sign?
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April 08, 2017, 06:54:09 PM
 #6477



If you just want to help out the network running a byteball-hub or relay is enough.



I have set up and now operating a new relay on a dedicated box with 300Mbps unmetered bandwidth.
Address: wss://byteball.fr/bb
Location: France

I have more than 15 years experience with Linux sysadmin. I can set up a witness if the the community asks.

I am running myself a hub for 2 months wss://zuqka.asuscomm.com/bb
Would be grateful if you could post the instructions on how to set up a witness.

nxt: NXT-2V7G-C8BY-KTYY-CAHNU * btc: 19UcQHepGvXb2fDcAMBJo1a3iduqBNXaGw * byte: XJBP46RQ7OZ6KKY4IXKL73VQBDKRIYJ4
naska21
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April 08, 2017, 06:56:14 PM
 #6478

Why so slow sync?  Only 17% for 5 hours of running
SatoNatomato
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April 08, 2017, 07:36:57 PM
 #6479

Why so slow sync?  Only 17% for 5 hours of running
Its not optimized for speed yet, as this is first release focus was 100% on correctness and avoidance of bugs.
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April 08, 2017, 08:29:10 PM
 #6480

Your post inspired me to take a closer look into Byteball's database schema and I wrote a little Python script to request the underlying sqlite database. It returns  data junks in Json format. I put it in my Github repo. Feel free to use and extend it.

https://github.com/ptrk01/ByteballPy

I am just playing a little bit around with Byteball and I am wondering if there is an API I can use to access DAG data on localhost? Couldn't find any information on the web.

There is no documentation yet but you can read the DAG data by accessing the sqlite database directly.  You can learn something about its structure from https://github.com/byteball/byteballcore/blob/master/byteball-sqlite.sql
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