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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1225183 times)
tonych
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April 14, 2017, 06:04:40 PM
 #6881

First DAG coin

This reminded me about

I'm still not convinced that Byteball is a pure DAG coin, to prove my position I would need to generate a lot of transactions on Byteball network to show that in certain conditions (related to DAG topology) TPS growth is negatively impacted by necessity to pick the main chain. If you compared Ethereum (which calls itself blockchain) and Byteball you would see that they don't differ much:

If you looked at IOTA you would see this:

I'm not interested enough to make sure that my assumption is correct, but you could help by generating a lot of transactions and posting here the topology of the resulting Byteball DAG. Try 10 TPS on the testnet maybe?

Not sure if tonych thinks that I'm trolling so he ignores the question or he doesn't feel himself comfortable to be involved into a dispute regarding that issue. Anyway, a run on testnet would give some ballpark numbers on Byteball scalability potential thus giving 50% of the answer.

I saw these pictures 2 or 3 times before but it's still unclear what you want to know?

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OXUS
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April 14, 2017, 06:08:17 PM
 #6882

what was ico price for byteball

Satochi is dead
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April 14, 2017, 06:12:43 PM
 #6883

I saw these pictures 2 or 3 times before but it's still unclear what you want to know?

Why Byteball is a DAG-coin, not a chain-coin.
- GHOST protocol gives a similar topology of blocks and if we have only 1 transaction per block then there is no difference in first order approximation.
- The whitepaper tells about ordering and the main chain.
- There is no publicly available information on transactions topology in high TPS mode (this would show if Byteball utilizes high scalability granted by a DAG).
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April 14, 2017, 06:26:13 PM
 #6884

what was ico price for byteball
There was no ICO for byteball it is being distributed fairly among all bitcoin holders. You can just link your bitcoin address and you will get byteball corresponding to your balance in that address during end of current distribution cycle which is 10th may.
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April 14, 2017, 06:35:54 PM
 #6885

Is it safe to change the hub to byteball.fr??  I would like to see how tonych feels about this just curious and I am all for decentralization of witnesses but how does the community decides if a witness is trustworthy?

My opinion, we have to give some support to guys who run witness nodes right now, because they are bleeding their own bytes, and it is so important to decentralize the network.

Can you explain how they are bleeding their own bytes?  Is this in the case of the hub or witness?  Sorry Im new to all this

Witnesses spent bytes by unconditional serial posting to themselves (and need to pay for that). Hubs don't.

Byteball payment gateway for web merchants https://byteball-for-merchants.com/ - BEEB  (Blackbytes Exchange Bot): https://www.beeb-bot.com/ (closed)
Network map, stats, Top Richests and Byteball world map at https://byteball.fr/ (closed) - Hub operator featuring the cashback witness https://byteball-cashback-witness.com (closed)
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April 14, 2017, 06:36:24 PM
 #6886

I saw these pictures 2 or 3 times before but it's still unclear what you want to know?

Why Byteball is a DAG-coin, not a chain-coin.
- GHOST protocol gives a similar topology of blocks and if we have only 1 transaction per block then there is no difference in first order approximation.
- The whitepaper tells about ordering and the main chain.
- There is no publicly available information on transactions topology in high TPS mode (this would show if Byteball utilizes high scalability granted by a DAG).

Start an issue on github if you have something to back this up with, and work it out with the dev through official channels.... github being one of the most direct way to go about it Smiley

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April 14, 2017, 06:36:41 PM
 #6887

Nice volume on bittrex this is sign of the new era. Byteball is heading to the moon I hope so $100 is an easy mark to achieve there. This amazing coin will get listed on more bigger exchanges very soon.
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April 14, 2017, 06:43:54 PM
 #6888

I saw these pictures 2 or 3 times before but it's still unclear what you want to know?

Why Byteball is a DAG-coin, not a chain-coin.
Well, it's hard not to see DAG in Byteball design.

- GHOST protocol gives a similar topology of blocks and if we have only 1 transaction per block then there is no difference in first order approximation.
And what?  Of course, there are edge cases.  And I didn't invent DAG if you want me to admit that Smiley

- The whitepaper tells about ordering and the main chain.

And?

- There is no publicly available information on transactions topology in high TPS mode (this would show if Byteball utilizes high scalability granted by a DAG).

Any reasons to believe the topology will be in some way "wrong" in high TPS mode?

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April 14, 2017, 06:49:13 PM
 #6889

Start an issue on github if you have something to back this up with, and work it out with the dev through official channels.... github being one of the most direct way to go about it Smiley

I just need an answer. Any answer I could just link people to.
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April 14, 2017, 06:55:06 PM
 #6890

Well, it's hard not to see DAG in Byteball design.

It's also seen in Ethereum design, any idea why they call themselves "chain", not "DAG"?


- GHOST protocol gives a similar topology of blocks and if we have only 1 transaction per block then there is no difference in first order approximation.
And what?  Of course, there are edge cases.  And I didn't invent DAG if you want me to admit that Smiley

- The whitepaper tells about ordering and the main chain.

And?

I just mentioned things which point toward "chain", not "DAG".


- There is no publicly available information on transactions topology in high TPS mode (this would show if Byteball utilizes high scalability granted by a DAG).

Any reasons to believe the topology will be in some way "wrong" in high TPS mode?


Yes. I suspect the ordering will slow everything down significantly. Is it hard to run a test?
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April 14, 2017, 07:06:36 PM
 #6891




(alternative hub and witness service to byteball.org/bb) now displays its hub number of incoming connections (updated every minute).

May I suggest an explicit option to donate? Might cover some of the fees

Just send some bytes to his address: MEJGDND55XNON7UU3ZKERJIZMMXJTVCV


Right (that's the address of the Witness). Very nice guys ! I had even not think of it  Shocked

Thanks for your support.

You may also help by pointing your wallets to wss://byteball.fr/bb (In your wallet settings->hub set wss://byteball.fr/bb) to get the witness validate more and more.

By the way, the correct url for your hub is byteball.fr/bb. When I put wss:// in front, my wallet does not sync (android).


.
tonych
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April 14, 2017, 07:21:57 PM
 #6892

Well, it's hard not to see DAG in Byteball design.

It's also seen in Ethereum design, any idea why they call themselves "chain", not "DAG"?

Ask them.  Perhaps they started from a chain and allowed for a DAG in some cases to accommodate for some need.

- GHOST protocol gives a similar topology of blocks and if we have only 1 transaction per block then there is no difference in first order approximation.
And what?  Of course, there are edge cases.  And I didn't invent DAG if you want me to admit that Smiley

- The whitepaper tells about ordering and the main chain.

And?

I just mentioned things which point toward "chain", not "DAG".


They are not mutually exclusive.
If you want to make some point, make it.


- There is no publicly available information on transactions topology in high TPS mode (this would show if Byteball utilizes high scalability granted by a DAG).

Any reasons to believe the topology will be in some way "wrong" in high TPS mode?


Yes. I suspect the ordering will slow everything down significantly. Is it hard to run a test?

It might slow down or might not.  What I know for sure, the current implementation leaves a lot of room for optimization.  But it is not my primary concern at the moment, all these TPS should be useful for something, and I pay most attention to the demand side rather than the supply.

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April 14, 2017, 07:27:31 PM
 #6893

Well, it's hard not to see DAG in Byteball design.

It's also seen in Ethereum design, any idea why they call themselves "chain", not "DAG"?

Ask them.  Perhaps they started from a chain and allowed for a DAG in some cases to accommodate for some need.

- GHOST protocol gives a similar topology of blocks and if we have only 1 transaction per block then there is no difference in first order approximation.
And what?  Of course, there are edge cases.  And I didn't invent DAG if you want me to admit that Smiley

- The whitepaper tells about ordering and the main chain.

And?

I just mentioned things which point toward "chain", not "DAG".


They are not mutually exclusive.
If you want to make some point, make it.


- There is no publicly available information on transactions topology in high TPS mode (this would show if Byteball utilizes high scalability granted by a DAG).

Any reasons to believe the topology will be in some way "wrong" in high TPS mode?


Yes. I suspect the ordering will slow everything down significantly. Is it hard to run a test?

It might slow down or might not.  What I know for sure, the current implementation leaves a lot of room for optimization.  But it is not my primary concern at the moment, all these TPS should be useful for something, and I pay most attention to the demand side rather than the supply.


Ok, let's return to this once the software is polished enough to run a stresstest. I'll stay in the old 50/50 position and will be telling that DAG/CHAIN question will be answered after the test.
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April 14, 2017, 07:28:55 PM
 #6894




(alternative hub and witness service to byteball.org/bb) now displays its hub number of incoming connections (updated every minute).

May I suggest an explicit option to donate? Might cover some of the fees

Just send some bytes to his address: MEJGDND55XNON7UU3ZKERJIZMMXJTVCV


Right (that's the address of the Witness). Very nice guys ! I had even not think of it  Shocked

Thanks for your support.

You may also help by pointing your wallets to wss://byteball.fr/bb (In your wallet settings->hub set wss://byteball.fr/bb) to get the witness validate more and more.

By the way, the correct url for your hub is byteball.fr/bb. When I put wss:// in front, my wallet does not sync (android).



You're right wss:// is not wanted. Fixed.
Thx for the update.

Byteball payment gateway for web merchants https://byteball-for-merchants.com/ - BEEB  (Blackbytes Exchange Bot): https://www.beeb-bot.com/ (closed)
Network map, stats, Top Richests and Byteball world map at https://byteball.fr/ (closed) - Hub operator featuring the cashback witness https://byteball-cashback-witness.com (closed)
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April 14, 2017, 07:50:22 PM
 #6895



Find one of 5 Byteball Easter Eggs,
each worth 1 GB ($80-$100):

https://youtu.be/uWTTLfclSF0


Second Easter Egg found: https://twitter.com/CryptKeeperBTT/status/852968932877225984

3 more to go!

Follow me on twitter for the latest news on bitcoin and altcoins and I'll follow you back the same day!
Obyte - An open cryptocurrency platform ready for real world adoption
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April 14, 2017, 08:00:58 PM
 #6896

Ok, let's return to this once the software is polished enough to run a stresstest. I'll stay in the old 50/50 position and will be telling that DAG/CHAIN question will be answered after the test.

You cant win with troll.

Now you are just changing your original question to be "what is the result of a stresstest", and if tonych actually makes a stresstest you would just say "but oh you run the stresstest with AMD Ryzen and more powerful motherboard than what is available for normal people living in Moldova".

Byteball is the first DAG-coin and that hurts your little ego since Iota is still not on any exchange and has the retarded idea of using Proof-of-Work in the space of IoT.

Start an issue on github if you have something to back this up with, and work it out with the dev through official channels.... github being one of the most direct way to go about it Smiley

I just need an answer. Any answer I could just link people to.


Use this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg18291320#msg18291320 as tonych gave you answer to your "scalability" question previously.
It is normal that there is no consensus (yet) about the unstable trailing part.

If we denote the interval of time between a transaction issuance and the transaction finalization (by witnesses) as confirmation time, does an average confirmation time increase monotonically if the global TPS rate increases monotonically?

PS: "Yes" would mean that SatoNatomato was wrong that DAG has no limits on scaling even if we have superpowerful hardware (but the latency still persists).

It all depends on the behavior of witnesses.  That said, it is reasonable to expect that as TPS increases, witnesses also post more frequently, therefore confirmation time decreases.  Of course, there is a lower bound defined by network latency, times number of witnesses.

As more transactions are posted to the network transaction times decrease - throughput increases.

Just pathetic CfB being pathetic.
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April 14, 2017, 08:11:11 PM
 #6897

You cant win with troll.

Now you are just changing your original question to be "what is the result of a stresstest", and if tonych actually makes a stresstest you would just say "but oh you run the stresstest with AMD Ryzen and more powerful motherboard than what is available for normal people living in Moldova".

Byteball is the first DAG-coin and that hurts your little ego since Iota is still not on any exchange and has the retarded idea of using Proof-of-Work in the space of IoT.

As more transactions are posted to the network transaction times decrease - throughput increases.

I am very interested in your IoT experience and especially the prototype mentioned, is it or will it ever be available for public study? Did you actually use the ESP8266, if so and you cant FOSS it, can you give a few pointers how one would go about implementing a light Byteball client for it, what was the biggest problem you faced?

Thank you.
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April 14, 2017, 08:40:43 PM
 #6898

Byteball is the first DAG-coin

Bitcoin is the first DAG-coin  Wink

CfB knew this in 2015, way before Byteball was a thing  Cheesy

Ethereum uses DAG aswell, any comparisons that can be made?

DAG != DAG, we can say that Bitcoin uses DAG as well.

PS: Technically any blockchain is DAG, I don't see Bitcoin or Ethereum cheerleaders screaming "DAG".



More fun:

Here is a more informative picture (arrows show references, they are directed opposite to the timeline):


+1

No block-chain representation will ever be nicer than that DAG-chain.

I'm still not convinced that Byteball is a pure DAG coin, to prove my position I would need to generate a lot of transactions on Byteball network to show that in certain conditions (related to DAG topology) TPS growth is negatively impacted by necessity to pick the main chain. If you compared Ethereum (which calls itself blockchain) and Byteball you would see that they don't differ much:

If you looked at IOTA you would see this:

I'm not interested enough to make sure that my assumption is correct, but you could help by generating a lot of transactions and posting here the topology of the resulting Byteball DAG. Try 10 TPS on the testnet maybe?


"No block-chain representation will ever be nicer than that DAG-chain."

It's pretty obvious which is the real DAG coin  Wink
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April 14, 2017, 08:45:46 PM
 #6899

I sent the bytes to "KEKYWT35NDA7LA7M23JTXTEZW2U7242I"
But it seems something is wrong Cheesy
https://explorer.byteball.org/#KEKYWT35NDA7LA7M23JTXTEZW2U7242I
Now get email:
"witnessing problem: only 8 spendable outputs left, will split an output of 10000000"
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April 14, 2017, 08:46:16 PM
 #6900

Byteball is the first DAG-coin

Bitcoin is the first DAG-coin  Wink

CfB knew this in 2015, way before Byteball was a thing  Cheesy

Ethereum uses DAG aswell, any comparisons that can be made?

DAG != DAG, we can say that Bitcoin uses DAG as well.

PS: Technically any blockchain is DAG, I don't see Bitcoin or Ethereum cheerleaders screaming "DAG".



More fun:

Here is a more informative picture (arrows show references, they are directed opposite to the timeline):


+1

No block-chain representation will ever be nicer than that DAG-chain.

I'm still not convinced that Byteball is a pure DAG coin, to prove my position I would need to generate a lot of transactions on Byteball network to show that in certain conditions (related to DAG topology) TPS growth is negatively impacted by necessity to pick the main chain. If you compared Ethereum (which calls itself blockchain) and Byteball you would see that they don't differ much:

If you looked at IOTA you would see this:

I'm not interested enough to make sure that my assumption is correct, but you could help by generating a lot of transactions and posting here the topology of the resulting Byteball DAG. Try 10 TPS on the testnet maybe?


"No block-chain representation will ever be nicer than that DAG-chain."

It's pretty obvious which is the real DAG coin  Wink


What is the significance of the implied difference?
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