Bitcoin Forum
May 26, 2020, 06:16:12 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.19.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Login to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution.
Pages: « 1 ... 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 [392] 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 ... 2138 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3045450 times)
Ytterbium
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
August 30, 2013, 08:11:37 PM
 #7821

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place.

One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc.  And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well.

Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with.

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1590516972
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1590516972

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1590516972
Reply with quote  #2

1590516972
Report to moderator
1590516972
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1590516972

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1590516972
Reply with quote  #2

1590516972
Report to moderator
1590516972
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1590516972

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1590516972
Reply with quote  #2

1590516972
Report to moderator
crumbs
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 100



View Profile
August 30, 2013, 08:27:49 PM
 #7822

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. ...

And that's why hacks like Microsoft just roll out new Windows versions without betas and previews.  You got a point there, champ...
Edit: Flash*flash*flash* OMG SARCASM TAG!!11!
ASIC-K
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 250


Hell?


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 08:29:54 PM
 #7823

wow look at that glowing yellow ignore on crumbs. hahaha
-Redacted-
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 501


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 08:30:54 PM
 #7824

wow look at that glowing yellow ignore on crumbs. hahaha

I can't see it, I have him on ignore Smiley
jmw74
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 236
Merit: 100


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 08:32:44 PM
 #7825

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place.

One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc.  And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well.

Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with.


Have you ever done it?  I thought not.  Almost nobody has, because it's ridiculously difficult.

"without much debugging" LOL.  Even you can't bring yourself to say "with no debugging at all".  That's what KNC is counting on - they basically can't debug the chip OR the board - they are stuck with whatever they get the first time.  Again, I'm not a hardware guy, maybe the interface between the chip and board is simple enough that an fpga mockup is sufficient.

But if this were a software protocol (something like HTTP), designing the protocol, client and server at the same time, but never testing the real client and server together until two weeks before shipping?  That would certainly end in disaster without *extreme* planning.   It would be a very different kind of software project than most.
rizzman
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100



View Profile
August 30, 2013, 08:38:27 PM
 #7826

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. ...

And that's why hacks like Microsoft just roll out new Windows versions without betas and previews.  You got a point there, champ...
Edit: Flash*flash*flash* OMG SARCASM TAG!!11!


Microsoft is only concerned with time to market and profits you cannot even use them as a valid example. Not to mention the logistics are totally different when patching and updating physical equipment vs software after it shipped. and if you are referring to CGminer, you may want to reread the previous posts considering they have successfully tested it with the FPGA and considering the ASIC is essentially suppose to be a copy off of it, things should go smoothly assuming the chip works.
Bogart
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 952
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 08:47:03 PM
 #7827

Yay! they are not a scam at least. This means they'll eventually ship a product.

fyi: we reached that stage 1.2 month before we shipped. Let's see how they handle their remainder issues.

It took BitSyncom 1.2 months to go from first getting a chip hashing to shipping out product.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
The Avenger
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 798
Merit: 1000



View Profile
August 30, 2013, 08:47:55 PM
 #7828

Don't recommend this piece of crap. It's not even bronze rated. You are going to spend 1000's on a miner and buy some unrated power supply???

For just a fraction more, you can buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-TX850-Enthusiast-Series-Bronze/dp/B004O0P9XK

Better quality, better brand, has bare minimum 80 plus bronze rating, better company to deal with - just better all round.

"I am not The Avenger"
1AthxGvreWbkmtTXed6EQfjXMXXdSG7dD6
600watt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2086
Merit: 1350



View Profile
August 30, 2013, 09:05:01 PM
Last edit: August 30, 2013, 09:21:13 PM by 600watt
 #7829

them talking about +30%

is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking

edit: "Secondly with regards to CGminer, and it’s opensource protocol we’ve been able to configure our device unassisted and made a greater than 30% performance increase using the underlying code, for which we would like to thank both kano and ckolivas with their outstanding contribution to the community."
tarmi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 09:06:08 PM
 #7830

them talking about +30%

is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking ?

30 % of what?
Ytterbium
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
August 30, 2013, 09:14:23 PM
 #7831

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place.

One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc.  And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well.

Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with.


Have you ever done it?  I thought not.  Almost nobody has, because it's ridiculously difficult.

Have I done what?  Stick two "complex" pieces of software together without "much" debugging? Of course I have. Of course, it depends on what you mean by "complex". I mean, I don't usually write software made out of two components, typically it will have hundreds or thousands of components, arranged in a semi-hierarchical way, with each component interacting with several. In the vast majority of cases the components work together fine with no debugging.

How many lines of code would a component need to have to be "complex" in your mind?

Anyway, the thing you don't seem to understand is that you have the opportunity to do debugging with an FPGA or in a simulator before finalizing your ASIC and board.

To use a software analogy, it would be like writing and debugging two components and getting them to work on your x86 desktop machine and then having them not work on an ARM based android phone.  Even though the physical chip is different, code that works on one CPU should still work on another, as long as the compilers you're using for both don't contain bugs of their own.

Quote
"without much debugging" LOL.  Even you can't bring yourself to say "with no debugging at all".  

Right but as I said, KnC can debug their board using FPGAs and debug their ASIC using FPGA models.

Beta-coiner1
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 09:17:34 PM
 #7832

them talking about +30%

is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking ?
It could be hash rate.I remember the offerings before were @ 175 for Saturns and @ 350 for Jupiters.....unless they mean these prior numbers.

frankenmint
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1015


HoneybadgerOfMoney.com Weed4bitcoin.com


View Profile WWW
August 30, 2013, 09:19:11 PM
 #7833

Has KNC ever mentioned what the ideal power supply for a mercury?

dwdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966
Merit: 1000


- - -Caveat Aleo- - -


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 09:21:31 PM
 #7834

Has KNC ever mentioned what the ideal power supply for a mercury?


https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-31
Ytterbium
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
August 30, 2013, 09:22:37 PM
 #7835

Don't recommend this piece of crap. It's not even bronze rated. You are going to spend 1000's on a miner and buy some unrated power supply???

For just a fraction more, you can buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-TX850-Enthusiast-Series-Bronze/dp/B004O0P9XK

Better quality, better brand, has bare minimum 80 plus bronze rating, better company to deal with - just better all round.

Absolutely. Don't buy a cheap crap PSU for this.  An expensive PSU, high-efficiency PSU will pay for itself in electricity prices within a month, especially if your cheapo unit blows up.

crumbs
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 100



View Profile
August 30, 2013, 09:42:55 PM
 #7836

...
Microsoft is only concerned with time to market and profits you cannot even use them as a valid example. Not to mention the logistics are totally different when patching and updating physical equipment vs software after it shipped. and if you are referring to CGminer, you may want to reread the previous posts considering they have successfully tested it with the FPGA and considering the ASIC is essentially suppose to be a copy off of it, things should go smoothly assuming the chip works.

The chips seldom "work" or "don't work."  The chips can draw way too much power (BFL), not take clock@voltage (everyone else), have noise issues, dead cores, etc., etc. -FPGAs are pretty much useless for debugging boards meant for ASICs.  Nothing -- from power requirements to clockspeed -- is the same.  It's no better than testing a race car with a lawnmower engine.  You will see routing mistakes, but that sort of thing is usually caught before testing Smiley

As far as Microsoft, i used them as a counterexample to the claim that establishing good standards & practices eliminates the need to test & debug.  That claim is simply absurd -- testing & debugging are an integral part of coding.
4realz.
vesperwillow
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 10:02:30 PM
 #7837

FWIW, The simplest explanation is often the best:

The chips (in bulk) are being burned as we speak, the design was finished awhile ago.

Prior to the bulk silicone chip order, a few chips were laid out and used for testing/verifying board functionality/testing the chips, etc.

That's not a situation of putting 2 unknowns together, that's simply matching up components which had already been designed-for and tested-with each other.


JohnyBigs
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560
Merit: 250


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 10:03:23 PM
 #7838

And so its confirmed still om track for end of September, which makes these devices pretty much useless unless the value of bitcoin starts to skyrocket. Good thing I got my refund.
-Redacted-
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 501


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 10:05:22 PM
 #7839

And so its confirmed still om track for end of September, which makes these devices pretty much useless unless the value of bitcoin starts to skyrocket. Good thing I got my refund.

They have always been expected at the end of September.  They will ROI up to the point where difficulty exceeds 2 billion.  Glad you got your refund.  Now stop trolling here.  STFU and GTFO...
JohnyBigs
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560
Merit: 250


View Profile
August 30, 2013, 10:07:56 PM
 #7840

And so its confirmed still om track for end of September, which makes these devices pretty much useless unless the value of bitcoin starts to skyrocket. Good thing I got my refund.

Glad you got your refund.  Now stop trolling here.  STFU and GTFO...

You sound angry lols, not trolling, delivery is expected end of september when this whole time they gave the impression of early to mid september. The only one getting trolled is you still waiting for your device, hope they dont get delayed so you never roi lmao.
Pages: « 1 ... 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 [392] 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 ... 2138 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!