ASIC-K
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 Offline
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Hell?
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August 30, 2013, 08:29:54 PM |
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wow look at that glowing yellow ignore on crumbs. hahaha
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-Redacted-
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August 30, 2013, 08:30:54 PM |
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wow look at that glowing yellow ignore on crumbs. hahaha
I can't see it, I have him on ignore  |
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jmw74
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August 30, 2013, 08:32:44 PM |
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I'm a software guy but the principle is the same. You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later. If it works, it's a fucking miracle. This is why you test things.
KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.
That's assuming they don't already have the chips. I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.
I'm a software guy. You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc. And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well. Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with. Have you ever done it? I thought not. Almost nobody has, because it's ridiculously difficult. "without much debugging" LOL. Even you can't bring yourself to say "with no debugging at all". That's what KNC is counting on - they basically can't debug the chip OR the board - they are stuck with whatever they get the first time. Again, I'm not a hardware guy, maybe the interface between the chip and board is simple enough that an fpga mockup is sufficient. But if this were a software protocol (something like HTTP), designing the protocol, client and server at the same time, but never testing the real client and server together until two weeks before shipping? That would certainly end in disaster without *extreme* planning. It would be a very different kind of software project than most. |
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rizzman
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August 30, 2013, 08:38:27 PM |
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I'm a software guy but the principle is the same. You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later. If it works, it's a fucking miracle. This is why you test things.
KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.
That's assuming they don't already have the chips. I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.
I'm a software guy. You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. ... And that's why hacks like Microsoft just roll out new Windows versions without betas and previews. You got a point there, champ... Edit: Flash*flash*flash* OMG SARCASM TAG!!11! Microsoft is only concerned with time to market and profits you cannot even use them as a valid example. Not to mention the logistics are totally different when patching and updating physical equipment vs software after it shipped. and if you are referring to CGminer, you may want to reread the previous posts considering they have successfully tested it with the FPGA and considering the ASIC is essentially suppose to be a copy off of it, things should go smoothly assuming the chip works. |
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Bogart
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Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
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August 30, 2013, 08:47:03 PM |
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Yay! they are not a scam at least. This means they'll eventually ship a product.
fyi: we reached that stage 1.2 month before we shipped. Let's see how they handle their remainder issues.
It took BitSyncom 1.2 months to go from first getting a chip hashing to shipping out product. |
"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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The Avenger
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August 30, 2013, 08:47:55 PM |
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Don't recommend this piece of crap. It's not even bronze rated. You are going to spend 1000's on a miner and buy some unrated power supply??? For just a fraction more, you can buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-TX850-Enthusiast-Series-Bronze/dp/B004O0P9XKBetter quality, better brand, has bare minimum 80 plus bronze rating, better company to deal with - just better all round. |
"I am not The Avenger"
1AthxGvreWbkmtTXed6EQfjXMXXdSG7dD6
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600watt
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Activity: 2338
Merit: 2106
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August 30, 2013, 09:05:01 PM
Last edit: August 30, 2013, 09:21:13 PM by 600watt |
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them talking about +30%
is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking
edit: "Secondly with regards to CGminer, and it’s opensource protocol we’ve been able to configure our device unassisted and made a greater than 30% performance increase using the underlying code, for which we would like to thank both kano and ckolivas with their outstanding contribution to the community."
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tarmi
Legendary
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Activity: 1218
Merit: 1010
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August 30, 2013, 09:06:08 PM |
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them talking about +30%
is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking ?
30 % of what? |
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Ytterbium
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August 30, 2013, 09:14:23 PM |
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I'm a software guy but the principle is the same. You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later. If it works, it's a fucking miracle. This is why you test things.
KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.
That's assuming they don't already have the chips. I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.
I'm a software guy. You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc. And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well. Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with. Have you ever done it? I thought not. Almost nobody has, because it's ridiculously difficult. Have I done what? Stick two "complex" pieces of software together without "much" debugging? Of course I have. Of course, it depends on what you mean by "complex". I mean, I don't usually write software made out of two components, typically it will have hundreds or thousands of components, arranged in a semi-hierarchical way, with each component interacting with several. In the vast majority of cases the components work together fine with no debugging. How many lines of code would a component need to have to be "complex" in your mind? Anyway, the thing you don't seem to understand is that you have the opportunity to do debugging with an FPGA or in a simulator before finalizing your ASIC and board. To use a software analogy, it would be like writing and debugging two components and getting them to work on your x86 desktop machine and then having them not work on an ARM based android phone. Even though the physical chip is different, code that works on one CPU should still work on another, as long as the compilers you're using for both don't contain bugs of their own. "without much debugging" LOL. Even you can't bring yourself to say "with no debugging at all".
Right but as I said, KnC can debug their board using FPGAs and debug their ASIC using FPGA models. |
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Beta-coiner1
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August 30, 2013, 09:17:34 PM |
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them talking about +30%
is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking ?
It could be hash rate.I remember the offerings before were @ 175 for Saturns and @ 350 for Jupiters.....unless they mean these prior numbers. |
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frankenmint
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Activity: 1456
Merit: 1018
HoneybadgerOfMoney.com Weed4bitcoin.com
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August 30, 2013, 09:19:11 PM |
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Has KNC ever mentioned what the ideal power supply for a mercury?
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Ytterbium
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August 30, 2013, 09:22:37 PM |
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Don't recommend this piece of crap. It's not even bronze rated. You are going to spend 1000's on a miner and buy some unrated power supply??? For just a fraction more, you can buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-TX850-Enthusiast-Series-Bronze/dp/B004O0P9XKBetter quality, better brand, has bare minimum 80 plus bronze rating, better company to deal with - just better all round. Absolutely. Don't buy a cheap crap PSU for this. An expensive PSU, high-efficiency PSU will pay for itself in electricity prices within a month, especially if your cheapo unit blows up. |
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crumbs
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August 30, 2013, 09:42:55 PM |
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...
Microsoft is only concerned with time to market and profits you cannot even use them as a valid example. Not to mention the logistics are totally different when patching and updating physical equipment vs software after it shipped. and if you are referring to CGminer, you may want to reread the previous posts considering they have successfully tested it with the FPGA and considering the ASIC is essentially suppose to be a copy off of it, things should go smoothly assuming the chip works.
The chips seldom "work" or "don't work." The chips can draw way too much power (BFL), not take clock@voltage (everyone else), have noise issues, dead cores, etc., etc. -FPGAs are pretty much useless for debugging boards meant for ASICs. Nothing -- from power requirements to clockspeed -- is the same. It's no better than testing a race car with a lawnmower engine. You will see routing mistakes, but that sort of thing is usually caught before testing As far as Microsoft, i used them as a counterexample to the claim that establishing good standards & practices eliminates the need to test & debug. That claim is simply absurd -- testing & debugging are an integral part of coding. 4realz. |
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vesperwillow
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August 30, 2013, 10:02:30 PM |
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FWIW, The simplest explanation is often the best:
The chips (in bulk) are being burned as we speak, the design was finished awhile ago.
Prior to the bulk silicone chip order, a few chips were laid out and used for testing/verifying board functionality/testing the chips, etc.
That's not a situation of putting 2 unknowns together, that's simply matching up components which had already been designed-for and tested-with each other.
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JohnyBigs
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August 30, 2013, 10:03:23 PM |
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And so its confirmed still om track for end of September, which makes these devices pretty much useless unless the value of bitcoin starts to skyrocket. Good thing I got my refund.
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-Redacted-
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August 30, 2013, 10:05:22 PM |
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And so its confirmed still om track for end of September, which makes these devices pretty much useless unless the value of bitcoin starts to skyrocket. Good thing I got my refund.
They have always been expected at the end of September. They will ROI up to the point where difficulty exceeds 2 billion. Glad you got your refund. Now stop trolling here. STFU and GTFO... |
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JohnyBigs
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August 30, 2013, 10:07:56 PM |
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And so its confirmed still om track for end of September, which makes these devices pretty much useless unless the value of bitcoin starts to skyrocket. Good thing I got my refund.
Glad you got your refund. Now stop trolling here. STFU and GTFO... You sound angry lols, not trolling, delivery is expected end of september when this whole time they gave the impression of early to mid september. The only one getting trolled is you still waiting for your device, hope they dont get delayed so you never roi lmao. |
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-Redacted-
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August 30, 2013, 10:09:04 PM |
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This user is currently ignored...
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ASIC-K
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Hell?
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August 30, 2013, 10:17:06 PM |
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And so its confirmed still om track for end of September, which makes these devices pretty much useless unless the value of bitcoin starts to skyrocket. Good thing I got my refund.
Glad you got your refund. Now stop trolling here. STFU and GTFO... You sound angry lols, not trolling, delivery is expected end of september when this whole time they gave the impression of early to mid september. The only one getting trolled is you still waiting for your device, hope they dont get delayed so you never roi lmao. i think YOU expected beginning of september. A smart person assumed the end of september or beginning of october. glad you got your refund as well P.S. HAPPY 400TH POST!!!! |
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