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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008676 times)
jmw74
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August 30, 2013, 07:53:08 PM
 #7821

...
If they had the chips, they would be shipping.

Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing?  They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Because BFL started shipping as soon as they got the chips, derp?

Bullshit, BLF started realizing that their chips were nowhere's near their promised efficiency levels as soon as they got the chips. and at some point the "Two more weeks" broken record response got dropped at which point, everyone finally found out that they had reorder all the cases / heatsinks/ powersupplies to deal address their poor planning and overly optimistic calculation...

It doesn't take a brain surgeon for anyone to learn from this mistake and it definitely isn't confidential knowledge. and I would bet good money that KNC ether A. Has the chips but is tweaking / testing quietly and wants to make absolutely sure none of these things come back for some BS problem that could have been fixed with alittle debugging or B. does not have it yet and is simply over-engineering the hell outta the components to ensure that the ancillary components don't need to be trashed if the initial parameters are off.

Ether way, BFL most definitely DID NOT start shipping as soon as they got the chips, if anything they were sitting on them awaiting boards/etc because of the Screwup -The fact that you are even comparing the two is retarded.

So. 
You don't get sarcasm.  No biggie.

But tell me, do you think all the big kids are just wasting time with with sample runs?  Now that KNC has learned from BFL's mistakes, do you suppose they'll even bother testing the boards before shipping?   It's in the bag, amirite?



Yep, this does not bode well.   I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.
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August 30, 2013, 07:56:26 PM
 #7822

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.

- Albert Einstein on seeing KNC's design approach

There should be a moderator.
I will ask teymos, maybe i will clean up there.

Useless posts, huge fonts, images and irrelevant videos.

Because your comments are sooo useful.

DPoS
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August 30, 2013, 08:03:44 PM
 #7823

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.

- Albert Einstein on seeing KNC's design approach

There should be a moderator.
I will ask teymos, maybe i will clean up there.

Useless posts, huge fonts, images and irrelevant videos.

Because your comments are sooo useful.

got deleted..  there seems to be a bias vs certain pro-comments on this forum and also a few trolls have moderator friends since as you know this thread is rife with anti-knc bullshit everywhere and never gets deleted

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ASIC-K
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August 30, 2013, 08:05:50 PM
 #7824

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.

- Albert Einstein on seeing KNC's design approach

There should be a moderator.
I will ask teymos, maybe i will clean up there.

Useless posts, huge fonts, images and irrelevant videos.

Because your comments are sooo useful.

got deleted..  there seems to be a bias vs certain pro-comments on this forum and also a few trolls have moderator friends since as you know this thread is rife with anti-knc bullshit everywhere and never gets deleted

ditto, got deleted too. didnt think anything i said was even bad either. oh well.
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August 30, 2013, 08:09:52 PM
 #7825

Yup..

I was actually using that quote to compare KNC to BFL in that BLF waited until they tripped until they figured things out while KNC is paving their road for no issues..  but that seems to be lost on the low moronic IQ of these trolls, or probably hit to close to the truth for them to bear

QQ trolls...  just cry


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August 30, 2013, 08:11:37 PM
 #7826

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place.

One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc.  And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well.

Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with.

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August 30, 2013, 08:27:49 PM
 #7827

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. ...

And that's why hacks like Microsoft just roll out new Windows versions without betas and previews.  You got a point there, champ...
Edit: Flash*flash*flash* OMG SARCASM TAG!!11!
ASIC-K
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August 30, 2013, 08:29:54 PM
 #7828

wow look at that glowing yellow ignore on crumbs. hahaha
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August 30, 2013, 08:30:54 PM
 #7829

wow look at that glowing yellow ignore on crumbs. hahaha

I can't see it, I have him on ignore Smiley
jmw74
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August 30, 2013, 08:32:44 PM
 #7830

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place.

One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc.  And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well.

Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with.


Have you ever done it?  I thought not.  Almost nobody has, because it's ridiculously difficult.

"without much debugging" LOL.  Even you can't bring yourself to say "with no debugging at all".  That's what KNC is counting on - they basically can't debug the chip OR the board - they are stuck with whatever they get the first time.  Again, I'm not a hardware guy, maybe the interface between the chip and board is simple enough that an fpga mockup is sufficient.

But if this were a software protocol (something like HTTP), designing the protocol, client and server at the same time, but never testing the real client and server together until two weeks before shipping?  That would certainly end in disaster without *extreme* planning.   It would be a very different kind of software project than most.
rizzman
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August 30, 2013, 08:38:27 PM
 #7831

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. ...

And that's why hacks like Microsoft just roll out new Windows versions without betas and previews.  You got a point there, champ...
Edit: Flash*flash*flash* OMG SARCASM TAG!!11!


Microsoft is only concerned with time to market and profits you cannot even use them as a valid example. Not to mention the logistics are totally different when patching and updating physical equipment vs software after it shipped. and if you are referring to CGminer, you may want to reread the previous posts considering they have successfully tested it with the FPGA and considering the ASIC is essentially suppose to be a copy off of it, things should go smoothly assuming the chip works.
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August 30, 2013, 08:47:03 PM
 #7832

Yay! they are not a scam at least. This means they'll eventually ship a product.

fyi: we reached that stage 1.2 month before we shipped. Let's see how they handle their remainder issues.

It took BitSyncom 1.2 months to go from first getting a chip hashing to shipping out product.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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August 30, 2013, 08:47:55 PM
 #7833

Don't recommend this piece of crap. It's not even bronze rated. You are going to spend 1000's on a miner and buy some unrated power supply???

For just a fraction more, you can buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-TX850-Enthusiast-Series-Bronze/dp/B004O0P9XK

Better quality, better brand, has bare minimum 80 plus bronze rating, better company to deal with - just better all round.

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August 30, 2013, 09:05:01 PM
 #7834

them talking about +30%

is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking

edit: "Secondly with regards to CGminer, and it’s opensource protocol we’ve been able to configure our device unassisted and made a greater than 30% performance increase using the underlying code, for which we would like to thank both kano and ckolivas with their outstanding contribution to the community."
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August 30, 2013, 09:06:08 PM
 #7835

them talking about +30%

is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking ?

30 % of what?
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August 30, 2013, 09:14:23 PM
 #7836

I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place.

One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc.  And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well.

Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with.


Have you ever done it?  I thought not.  Almost nobody has, because it's ridiculously difficult.

Have I done what?  Stick two "complex" pieces of software together without "much" debugging? Of course I have. Of course, it depends on what you mean by "complex". I mean, I don't usually write software made out of two components, typically it will have hundreds or thousands of components, arranged in a semi-hierarchical way, with each component interacting with several. In the vast majority of cases the components work together fine with no debugging.

How many lines of code would a component need to have to be "complex" in your mind?

Anyway, the thing you don't seem to understand is that you have the opportunity to do debugging with an FPGA or in a simulator before finalizing your ASIC and board.

To use a software analogy, it would be like writing and debugging two components and getting them to work on your x86 desktop machine and then having them not work on an ARM based android phone.  Even though the physical chip is different, code that works on one CPU should still work on another, as long as the compilers you're using for both don't contain bugs of their own.

Quote
"without much debugging" LOL.  Even you can't bring yourself to say "with no debugging at all".  

Right but as I said, KnC can debug their board using FPGAs and debug their ASIC using FPGA models.

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August 30, 2013, 09:17:34 PM
 #7837

them talking about +30%

is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking ?
It could be hash rate.I remember the offerings before were @ 175 for Saturns and @ 350 for Jupiters.....unless they mean these prior numbers.

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August 30, 2013, 09:19:11 PM
 #7838

Has KNC ever mentioned what the ideal power supply for a mercury?

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August 30, 2013, 09:21:31 PM
 #7839

Has KNC ever mentioned what the ideal power supply for a mercury?


https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-31
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August 30, 2013, 09:22:37 PM
 #7840

Don't recommend this piece of crap. It's not even bronze rated. You are going to spend 1000's on a miner and buy some unrated power supply???

For just a fraction more, you can buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-TX850-Enthusiast-Series-Bronze/dp/B004O0P9XK

Better quality, better brand, has bare minimum 80 plus bronze rating, better company to deal with - just better all round.

Absolutely. Don't buy a cheap crap PSU for this.  An expensive PSU, high-efficiency PSU will pay for itself in electricity prices within a month, especially if your cheapo unit blows up.

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