CYPER
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December 16, 2013, 10:18:53 PM |
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Why does everyone seem to think the exchange rate of BTC will have anything to do with the release of a 3rd batch? KNC don't give a crap about the price of BTC! They use Bitpay and funds are immediately converted to USD or EUR. Bitpay assumes all of the risk in a falling market.
If KNC are holding BTC at all it's probably just the coin they've mined.
And how do you know they get all USD from Bitpay?
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AussiePete
Member
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Merit: 10
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December 16, 2013, 10:37:39 PM Last edit: December 16, 2013, 11:16:19 PM by AussiePete |
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Hi guys
Is it greed or a good investment .
I studied and weighed up the risks when I heard about mining btc . I went to my bank , borrowed money (with interest) off the GREEDY bank . Bought my Jupiter off GREEDY knc , mined and earnt 30 btc and then sold my Jupiter for 12 btc . I then sold my btc at $1000 each . I had to pay 5% to the GREEDY exchange and then gave the GREEDY bank back their money plus interest .
If I decided to buy more miners does it make me GREEDY or does it make me a good investor ?
The truth is most people will never know , because you will never really get close enough to know me personally , very few people get to know our inner motives .
Greedy or Shrewed ? What are we doing here ? Aren't we all trying to make money ?
Im not defending or attacking knc , the bank or the exchange , they, like me, have all made mistakes. In business (and we "miners", are in business ) we have to learn to accept the losses as well as the rewards .
Over zeallous defending or attacking is stupid and a waste of your energy , it will only cause others not to help you because of your aggression .
True Greed is a big indication of childish behaviour , what you dish out , you will get back with interest , be careful what you plant .
To me , over zeallousness in either direction is usually a good sign of GREED
Peace
Pete
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RickJamesBTC
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December 16, 2013, 11:03:34 PM |
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I love reading all the socialist posts about corporate greed. You realize that you are trying to make money yourself, right? Hating on a company that is also trying to make money is BS. KNC doesn't control the price of bitcoin on the free market, and if they decide to open up orders for jupiters during a price drop I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.
Honestly, I don't think you even know what socialist means. Corporate greed would be fully okay with me if they had every miner in hand instead of preorder and would not have any shipping delays. The thing is, they let the customers fund it completely with their own money, KNC had/has/will have no risk at all and they don't compensate miners for lost revenue because of their delayed shipping. And for THAT I find the miners completely overpriced; Especially when they offer Neptune with the same conditions. They advertised their miners in the past as top tier mining equipment and that is why I and many others paid the price they wanted. The reality is that with all those hardware revisions and (really needed) fw upgrades one could have bought several more mining rigs from their competition with less hassle and perfectly timed shipping. There is an example for honest business out there, red fury/bitfury. So we see it can be done. What kind of nonsense are you talking? A business that charges what the market will bear for their products is not dishonest. Charging far less than people are willing to pay is called STUPID. If they were priced too high, people wouldn't buy them and the price would go down. Also, wtf, nobody wants to buy a bitfury board instead of a big powerful jupiter. That's why they are selling. There is ZERO competiton for KNC at the high end right now. BFL is charging 4x the price for similar product speeds. KNC was a few days late with shipping and many / most orders worked fine. That's why you see the hashrate jumping up so much everytime they ship. If all of KNCs products were defective as a few people here would lead you to believe, how does the hashrate get to 8-9PH ?? That's all KNC. I guess I'm just an unpaid knc shill. I wish I could be paid for this, bitcoinorama, hook me and phoenix up with some swag! I'll take an early notification / order window for the next jupiter sales event, I'm sure phoenix would as well. Hook up your biggest fans!
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Syke
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
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December 16, 2013, 11:42:56 PM |
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What kind of nonsense are you talking? A business that charges what the market will bear for their products is not dishonest. Charging far less than people are willing to pay is called STUPID. If they were priced too high, people wouldn't buy them and the price would go down.
Exactly. KnC did good on the Jupiters, etc. But they're stepping into fraud territory by implying a Q1 ship date for Neptune when there's simply no chance of that happening.
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Buy & Hold
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xstr8guy
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December 16, 2013, 11:47:51 PM |
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Why does everyone seem to think the exchange rate of BTC will have anything to do with the release of a 3rd batch? KNC don't give a crap about the price of BTC! They use Bitpay and funds are immediately converted to USD or EUR. Bitpay assumes all of the risk in a falling market.
If KNC are holding BTC at all it's probably just the coin they've mined.
And how do you know they get all USD from Bitpay? Because that's what Bitpay does for it's merchants. https://bitpay.com/termsFees & Settlement.
Invoice Generation and Exchange Rate Guarantee. To create an invoice, you may post a request to BitPay to collect a specific amount in your local currency, such as dollars or euros, or in Bitcoin. BitPay will pull the exchange rate and provide the Bitcoin payment instructions to the purchaser. We guarantee the exchange rate to you as long as the purchaser pays within the proper time window after the invoice is created. Invoice timeout information is clearly displayed on each BitPay invoice. While we guarantee the exchange rate as long as the purchaser pays within such time window, you agree that you assume the volatility risk of your local currency or Bitcoin, as applicable. For instance, if you ask us to collect USD $150, and the purchaser sends the payment within the time window, we guarantee you will receive exactly USD $150, minus our fee, but do not guarantee the value of the U.S. dollar. And why would a business that needs cash to fund its operations want to hold volatile BTC? They can mine BTC if they want to gamble. But they aren't stupid enough (I assume) to risk their business by keeping all sales revenue in BTC. And if they want to speculate they can take a certain percentage of their profits and BUY BTC.
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opentoe
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
Personal text my ass....
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December 16, 2013, 11:50:57 PM |
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Strange though we don't hear anything from KNC about ANYTHING until some news about other companies coming out with a possible delivery. I bet that made KNC's head turn a little bit...so much they had to make a news annoucement in advertising selling hardware again. Pretty soon we will have other companies to finally choose from and won't be locked to a mouse quiet KNC. Even to this day, have they helped anyone on their own forum? Even after saying they would provide that support. It will definitely make me think twice if I buy any more hardware.
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CYPER
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December 16, 2013, 11:57:50 PM |
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Because that's what Bitpay does for it's merchants. https://bitpay.com/termsFees & Settlement.
Invoice Generation and Exchange Rate Guarantee. To create an invoice, you may post a request to BitPay to collect a specific amount in your local currency, such as dollars or euros, or in Bitcoin. BitPay will pull the exchange rate and provide the Bitcoin payment instructions to the purchaser. We guarantee the exchange rate to you as long as the purchaser pays within the proper time window after the invoice is created. Invoice timeout information is clearly displayed on each BitPay invoice. While we guarantee the exchange rate as long as the purchaser pays within such time window, you agree that you assume the volatility risk of your local currency or Bitcoin, as applicable. For instance, if you ask us to collect USD $150, and the purchaser sends the payment within the time window, we guarantee you will receive exactly USD $150, minus our fee, but do not guarantee the value of the U.S. dollar. And why would a business that needs cash to fund its operations want to hold volatile BTC? They can mine BTC if they want to gamble. But they aren't stupid enough (I assume) to risk their business by keeping all sales revenue in BTC. And if they want to speculate they can take a certain percentage of their profits and BUY BTC. Merchants can receive settlement in their local currency with a guaranteed exchange rate, or keep the bitcoins, or a percentage split. https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-depositI doubt you know better than KNC if they take all USD or not
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DPoS
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December 16, 2013, 11:58:08 PM |
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Strange though we don't hear anything from KNC about ANYTHING until some news about other companies coming out with a possible delivery. I bet that made KNC's head turn a little bit...so much they had to make a news annoucement in advertising selling hardware again. Pretty soon we will have other companies to finally choose from and won't be locked to a mouse quiet KNC. Even to this day, have they helped anyone on their own forum? Even after saying they would provide that support. It will definitely make me think twice if I buy any more hardware.
they are what they are... where is perfect in this world? They delivered.. the crash in btc is probably pouring pepper in peoples pants today more than anything
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xstr8guy
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December 17, 2013, 12:01:16 AM |
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Strange though we don't hear anything from KNC about ANYTHING until some news about other companies coming out with a possible delivery. I bet that made KNC's head turn a little bit...so much they had to make a news annoucement in advertising selling hardware again. Pretty soon we will have other companies to finally choose from and won't be locked to a mouse quiet KNC. Even to this day, have they helped anyone on their own forum? Even after saying they would provide that support. It will definitely make me think twice if I buy any more hardware.
KNC will have ZERO 28nm competition until March/April. All of the other companies have committed to multiple batches that won't finish shipping until then. And until then, KNC will be they only vendor able to ship from stock if they so choose. "First to market" is a massive advantage for KNC and you can bet that they will take full advantage of it.
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xstr8guy
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December 17, 2013, 12:03:18 AM |
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Because that's what Bitpay does for it's merchants. https://bitpay.com/termsFees & Settlement.
Invoice Generation and Exchange Rate Guarantee. To create an invoice, you may post a request to BitPay to collect a specific amount in your local currency, such as dollars or euros, or in Bitcoin. BitPay will pull the exchange rate and provide the Bitcoin payment instructions to the purchaser. We guarantee the exchange rate to you as long as the purchaser pays within the proper time window after the invoice is created. Invoice timeout information is clearly displayed on each BitPay invoice. While we guarantee the exchange rate as long as the purchaser pays within such time window, you agree that you assume the volatility risk of your local currency or Bitcoin, as applicable. For instance, if you ask us to collect USD $150, and the purchaser sends the payment within the time window, we guarantee you will receive exactly USD $150, minus our fee, but do not guarantee the value of the U.S. dollar. And why would a business that needs cash to fund its operations want to hold volatile BTC? They can mine BTC if they want to gamble. But they aren't stupid enough (I assume) to risk their business by keeping all sales revenue in BTC. And if they want to speculate they can take a certain percentage of their profits and BUY BTC. Merchants can receive settlement in their local currency with a guaranteed exchange rate, or keep the bitcoins, or a percentage split. https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-depositI doubt you know better than KNC if they take all USD or not I don't want to argue with you. You believe what you want to believe. I'll use logic and reason and come to my own conclusion. Btw, I'm not assuming that they are exchanging to USD. Most likely they are using their local currencies, EUR or SEK.
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CYPER
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December 17, 2013, 12:10:48 AM |
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Because that's what Bitpay does for it's merchants. https://bitpay.com/termsFees & Settlement.
Invoice Generation and Exchange Rate Guarantee. To create an invoice, you may post a request to BitPay to collect a specific amount in your local currency, such as dollars or euros, or in Bitcoin. BitPay will pull the exchange rate and provide the Bitcoin payment instructions to the purchaser. We guarantee the exchange rate to you as long as the purchaser pays within the proper time window after the invoice is created. Invoice timeout information is clearly displayed on each BitPay invoice. While we guarantee the exchange rate as long as the purchaser pays within such time window, you agree that you assume the volatility risk of your local currency or Bitcoin, as applicable. For instance, if you ask us to collect USD $150, and the purchaser sends the payment within the time window, we guarantee you will receive exactly USD $150, minus our fee, but do not guarantee the value of the U.S. dollar. And why would a business that needs cash to fund its operations want to hold volatile BTC? They can mine BTC if they want to gamble. But they aren't stupid enough (I assume) to risk their business by keeping all sales revenue in BTC. And if they want to speculate they can take a certain percentage of their profits and BUY BTC. Merchants can receive settlement in their local currency with a guaranteed exchange rate, or keep the bitcoins, or a percentage split. https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-depositI doubt you know better than KNC if they take all USD or not I don't want to argue with you. You believe what you want to believe. I'll use logic and reason and come to my own conclusion. Btw, I'm not assuming that they are exchanging to USD. Most likely they are using their local currencies, EUR or SEK. Logic and reason can equally dictate that they get 90% fiat and 10% BTC, because they are miners by heart and believe in the future of BTC. Plus they made a s**t load of money, so 10% in BTC would not be classified as a big risk in their books
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opentoe
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
Personal text my ass....
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December 17, 2013, 12:24:26 AM |
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Anyone have an inside scoop of when KNC will possibly list Jupiters? It will be Christmas in 11 days, then New Year's so anything to do with shipping will be delayed or who knows what. Are they thinking of releasing maybe this week, the next? I'm probably positive someone must have called them to ask. And most likely wouldn't post that "secret" info here.
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lemonte
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December 17, 2013, 12:27:13 AM |
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Anyone have an inside scoop of when KNC will possibly list Jupiters? It will be Christmas in 11 days, then New Year's so anything to do with shipping will be delayed or who knows what. Are they thinking of releasing maybe this week, the next? I'm probably positive someone must have called them to ask. And most likely wouldn't post that "secret" info here.
I have no inside information, but I would hazard a guess at this week.
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vesperwillow
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December 17, 2013, 12:33:23 AM |
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Anyone have an inside scoop of when KNC will possibly list Jupiters? It will be Christmas in 11 days, then New Year's so anything to do with shipping will be delayed or who knows what. Are they thinking of releasing maybe this week, the next? I'm probably positive someone must have called them to ask. And most likely wouldn't post that "secret" info here.
Last week they said have your coins ready. So somewhere between last week and eternity. It means, have your coins ready.
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The Avenger
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December 17, 2013, 12:37:04 AM Last edit: December 17, 2013, 12:56:31 AM by The Avenger |
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Anyone have an inside scoop of when KNC will possibly list Jupiters? It will be Christmas in 11 days, then New Year's so anything to do with shipping will be delayed or who knows what. Are they thinking of releasing maybe this week, the next? I'm probably positive someone must have called them to ask. And most likely wouldn't post that "secret" info here.
Last week they said have your coins ready. So somewhere between last week and eternity. It means, have your coins ready. All, Our first round Neptune products has now sold out. We will be working with all of our suppliers to arrange another round of components so please keep an eye on our shop for future shipments of Neptune. As it looks like our struggling competition may eventually ship before our Network protection period has finished, we may be in a position to release Jupiter’s and possibly upgrade cards which we will ship from stock. If we do have more items to place in the shop for our 28nm range, we will announce this via one of our newsletters which will contain the time and date that they will go on sale. So keep some coins handy as we expect them to go quick. A small note to say that bank transfers started on friday will be allowed. The status of your order will changed to paid when the transfer has arrived and been checked by our team. Thanks KnC team
Friday? I'd say that would be typical KNC. Take everyone's money on the last working day before Xmas, so they have everyone's money. Shipping - who care's? It makes no difference to KNC if they ship a week or a month later, as they prove time and time again. The only thing that matters is they have the money. Shipping late is their speciality, even with boards they have in stock. In other news, Sam has been spotted Xmas shopping for some new wheels
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"I am not The Avenger" 1AthxGvreWbkmtTXed6EQfjXMXXdSG7dD6
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xstr8guy
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December 17, 2013, 12:52:29 AM |
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Because that's what Bitpay does for it's merchants. https://bitpay.com/termsFees & Settlement.
Invoice Generation and Exchange Rate Guarantee. To create an invoice, you may post a request to BitPay to collect a specific amount in your local currency, such as dollars or euros, or in Bitcoin. BitPay will pull the exchange rate and provide the Bitcoin payment instructions to the purchaser. We guarantee the exchange rate to you as long as the purchaser pays within the proper time window after the invoice is created. Invoice timeout information is clearly displayed on each BitPay invoice. While we guarantee the exchange rate as long as the purchaser pays within such time window, you agree that you assume the volatility risk of your local currency or Bitcoin, as applicable. For instance, if you ask us to collect USD $150, and the purchaser sends the payment within the time window, we guarantee you will receive exactly USD $150, minus our fee, but do not guarantee the value of the U.S. dollar. And why would a business that needs cash to fund its operations want to hold volatile BTC? They can mine BTC if they want to gamble. But they aren't stupid enough (I assume) to risk their business by keeping all sales revenue in BTC. And if they want to speculate they can take a certain percentage of their profits and BUY BTC. Merchants can receive settlement in their local currency with a guaranteed exchange rate, or keep the bitcoins, or a percentage split. https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-depositI doubt you know better than KNC if they take all USD or not I don't want to argue with you. You believe what you want to believe. I'll use logic and reason and come to my own conclusion. Btw, I'm not assuming that they are exchanging to USD. Most likely they are using their local currencies, EUR or SEK. Logic and reason can equally dictate that they get 90% fiat and 10% BTC, because they are miners by heart and believe in the future of BTC. Plus they made a s**t load of money, so 10% in BTC would not be classified as a big risk in their books Well now you're taking my side of the argument, lol. What you were saying before made it sound like you implying that they kept all revenue in bitcoin form. Or maybe I was reading to much into what you meant. Like those clowns in the HashFast thread thinking they would be refunded the same amount of Bitcoin they initially invested. Let's agree on one thing... Neither of us actually know what KNC is doing.
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CYPER
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December 17, 2013, 12:59:43 AM |
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Because that's what Bitpay does for it's merchants. https://bitpay.com/termsFees & Settlement.
Invoice Generation and Exchange Rate Guarantee. To create an invoice, you may post a request to BitPay to collect a specific amount in your local currency, such as dollars or euros, or in Bitcoin. BitPay will pull the exchange rate and provide the Bitcoin payment instructions to the purchaser. We guarantee the exchange rate to you as long as the purchaser pays within the proper time window after the invoice is created. Invoice timeout information is clearly displayed on each BitPay invoice. While we guarantee the exchange rate as long as the purchaser pays within such time window, you agree that you assume the volatility risk of your local currency or Bitcoin, as applicable. For instance, if you ask us to collect USD $150, and the purchaser sends the payment within the time window, we guarantee you will receive exactly USD $150, minus our fee, but do not guarantee the value of the U.S. dollar. And why would a business that needs cash to fund its operations want to hold volatile BTC? They can mine BTC if they want to gamble. But they aren't stupid enough (I assume) to risk their business by keeping all sales revenue in BTC. And if they want to speculate they can take a certain percentage of their profits and BUY BTC. Merchants can receive settlement in their local currency with a guaranteed exchange rate, or keep the bitcoins, or a percentage split. https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-depositI doubt you know better than KNC if they take all USD or not I don't want to argue with you. You believe what you want to believe. I'll use logic and reason and come to my own conclusion. Btw, I'm not assuming that they are exchanging to USD. Most likely they are using their local currencies, EUR or SEK. Logic and reason can equally dictate that they get 90% fiat and 10% BTC, because they are miners by heart and believe in the future of BTC. Plus they made a s**t load of money, so 10% in BTC would not be classified as a big risk in their books Well now you're taking my side of the argument, lol. What you were saying before made it sound like you implying that they kept all revenue in bitcoin form. Or maybe I was reading to much into what you meant. Like those clowns in the HashFast thread thinking they would be refunded the same amount of Bitcoin they initially invested. Let's agree on one thing... Neither of us actually know what KNC is doing. Never said or implied that. You said that "KNC don't give a crap about the price of BTC" which implies they don't get or own any BTC.
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xstr8guy
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December 17, 2013, 01:18:56 AM |
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Because that's what Bitpay does for it's merchants. https://bitpay.com/termsFees & Settlement.
Invoice Generation and Exchange Rate Guarantee. To create an invoice, you may post a request to BitPay to collect a specific amount in your local currency, such as dollars or euros, or in Bitcoin. BitPay will pull the exchange rate and provide the Bitcoin payment instructions to the purchaser. We guarantee the exchange rate to you as long as the purchaser pays within the proper time window after the invoice is created. Invoice timeout information is clearly displayed on each BitPay invoice. While we guarantee the exchange rate as long as the purchaser pays within such time window, you agree that you assume the volatility risk of your local currency or Bitcoin, as applicable. For instance, if you ask us to collect USD $150, and the purchaser sends the payment within the time window, we guarantee you will receive exactly USD $150, minus our fee, but do not guarantee the value of the U.S. dollar. And why would a business that needs cash to fund its operations want to hold volatile BTC? They can mine BTC if they want to gamble. But they aren't stupid enough (I assume) to risk their business by keeping all sales revenue in BTC. And if they want to speculate they can take a certain percentage of their profits and BUY BTC. Merchants can receive settlement in their local currency with a guaranteed exchange rate, or keep the bitcoins, or a percentage split. https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-depositI doubt you know better than KNC if they take all USD or not I don't want to argue with you. You believe what you want to believe. I'll use logic and reason and come to my own conclusion. Btw, I'm not assuming that they are exchanging to USD. Most likely they are using their local currencies, EUR or SEK. Logic and reason can equally dictate that they get 90% fiat and 10% BTC, because they are miners by heart and believe in the future of BTC. Plus they made a s**t load of money, so 10% in BTC would not be classified as a big risk in their books Well now you're taking my side of the argument, lol. What you were saying before made it sound like you implying that they kept all revenue in bitcoin form. Or maybe I was reading to much into what you meant. Like those clowns in the HashFast thread thinking they would be refunded the same amount of Bitcoin they initially invested. Let's agree on one thing... Neither of us actually know what KNC is doing. Never said or implied that. You said that "KNC don't give a crap about the price of BTC" which implies they don't get or own any BTC. You've edited out the most significant part of that quote... Why does everyone seem to think the exchange rate of BTC will have anything to do with the release of a 3rd batch? KNC don't give a crap about the price of BTC!...
I simply meant that KNC aren't going to time their release of the next batch with a BTC high or low. They aren't going to judge profitability on the price of BTC since they instantly convert to fiat at the time of sale. And yes, I suppose they do believe in BTC but any business would be foolish to keep all of their funds in BTC when it's completely unnecessary. They are mining themselves and they can certainly speculate and buy BTC on the market as well without risking their entire business to a highly volatile currency.
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bobsag3
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December 17, 2013, 01:50:10 AM |
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So I have one november jupiter that refuses to stay on. Tried each individual ASIC separately, no dice, tried swapping the 1500w EVGA with a 860W Corsair, corsair didnt even turn it on (fans spun up but BBB no lights). Anyone got any ideas?
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Phoenix1969
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
LIR DEV
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December 17, 2013, 02:15:28 AM |
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Strange though we don't hear anything from KNC about ANYTHING until some news about other companies coming out with a possible delivery. I bet that made KNC's head turn a little bit...so much they had to make a news annoucement in advertising selling hardware again. Pretty soon we will have other companies to finally choose from and won't be locked to a mouse quiet KNC. Even to this day, have they helped anyone on their own forum? Even after saying they would provide that support. It will definitely make me think twice if I buy any more hardware.
KNC will have ZERO 28nm competition until March/April. All of the other companies have committed to multiple batches that won't finish shipping until then. And until then, KNC will be they only vendor able to ship from stock if they so choose. "First to market" is a massive advantage for KNC and you can bet that they will take full advantage of it. I was thinking KNC would be on Neptune 20nm by then, and there simply is no competition....
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