Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[vesperwillow]

It sounds like what he's saying is, they simply weren't doing anything with 28nm (assembly, purchasing, tapeouts, etc). Not so much that they were moving everything to 20nm. That's how I took it.

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[Phoenix1969]

It sounds like what he's saying is, they simply weren't doing anything with 28nm (assembly, purchasing, tapeouts, etc). Not so much that they were moving everything to 20nm. That's how I took it.

Hahehe, even more cryptic....  Not doing 28, but not switching to 20....   good guess! You nailed it! (Just kidding)
He indeed said there were TEAMS working on Neptune, and liaising between Asia Manufacturing & Engineers @ KNC...
So we know that 20nm is well under way, and they are working hard on that.

The Question being...  28nm products  ...   Going to happen, or Not going to happen...
So you think no more 28nm?.... You may be right...... I hope not tho.
I placed my bet they would indeed have more 28 to offer.... now I'm not so sure.
Oh well...  it will be "plan C" if not.  
 I'm also thinking that if no 28's... then they may very well be alot further along on Neptune than we thought, or they may have gained some ground on progress?, and abandoned the 28 run idea?
ug.... this is crazy-wild on-the-edge of my seat over here wondering doggonit!
O'rama sure threw a monkey-wrench in my projections/predictions/plans with that post 

[jelin1984]

i think that they final

only faster the production of 20nm miners

so will have 20nm miner
asap


go knc go

happy new year
happy 2014

with more bitcoin to all

[soy]

The only staff with an ongoing workload throughout the holidays are the DC guys, and those involved on the Neptune project as Asia doesn't wind down at this time of year so if they need to be liaised with throughout, which they do as it's an international effort, then the sooner the better as obviously delivery on that product is as time sensitive as always, and Asia winds down end of Jan I believe for a bit.

Isn't the first week in January their New Year.  Big event there I think where everything stops except parades and party for what a week or two?

[soy]

You really wanna know...  Okay...
In all seriousness... I took the newsletter statement ""we may be in a position to release Jupiter’s and possibly upgrade cards which we will ship from stock." to mean... they will not be preorders, but will be a batch run & assembled before offered for sale, which could then be sold from stock, for immediate shipment. Which would also explain the answers in your emails. Nothing in the statement they made says they have them in stock as I understand it.  What are 40 new employees going to do until Neptune time? Based on the past, they can assemble & ship an entire batch in 2 weeks, so there's plenty of time to pull that one off. That's what I'm betting is happening....  and no, that's NOT an inside scoop, I could be totally off-base too.  

I was thinking the same thing

Has the factory floor been idle since the last shipment of upgrade modules?  I suspect not.  And I doubt they'd lay off the factory workers between that period of upgrade cards and the eventual production run of Neptunes.  Their proto lab would be working full time of course.  So one would think the floor workers have been building what we call November Jupiters and stockpiling.

Look there has been talk prior to Christmas of another batch of Jupiters at somepoint, but it was talk, and as I said previously it wouldn't occur this side of 2014, which it hasn't, neither has any direct competitor shipped anything in noticeable volume before the end of 2013.

Aside from that there has been no other development in the 28nm area as everything was being wound down for Christmas and having the unnecessary excess pressure on support staff and logistical nightmare of delivering throughout the holiday period wouldn't be fair on anyone.

The only staff with an ongoing workload throughout the holidays are the DC guys, and those involved on the Neptune project as Asia doesn't wind down at this time of year so if they need to be liaised with throughout, which they do as it's an international effort, then the sooner the better as obviously delivery on that product is as time sensitive as always, and Asia winds down end of Jan I believe for a bit.

In any case KnC don't own a manufacturing facility themselves, there are not hoards of starving, depressed assemblers twiddling their thumbs longing for round the clock shifts creating Bitcoin ASIC hardware. They are surviving with other contracts I'm sure.

So, let's see what 2014 brings. HNY everyone, to a prosperous 2014!!!

hmmm, yeah...we guessed there was nobody in there assembling over the holidays....  we were(I was) talking 2014, totally......
but the way you worded that... There may NOT be any more 28nm, and the 20nm may be closer than we thought?
Am I reading you correctly?

or is 28nm going to grace the cloud again? Sounds like it was an idea that went wayside because Neptunes are actually alot closer than q2?
We've been trying to dissect cryptic messages on the subject... hehe,  good thing it's not sha-256  
any info helps... thx

My guess now would be that if no 28nm, then  what's everyone doing in January....."laid off" due to contract work/no hourly?  or working on 20nm?....  Split teams?...or am I way off base?

We could really use a definitive answer on this...
all the mystery is kinda frustrating!
It's difficult to make any real decisions based on the info we have.

No information to make decisions may be the point.  A group sales figure here on bitcointalk has gear to sell.  It's not KnC gear, it's not too efficient, price isn't great, but the stuff is available and he was an early provider of ASICs to us in this country at the home user level.  He personally put ASICs in miners homes  here while BFL was blowing smoke our way.  If KnC were to say 'We've been working full work weeks producing Jupiters for release in January.' sales of comrade ASIC miners might be damaged.  KnC knows it has the Lexus of Bitcoin Miners at present.  KnC can sell at will all it offers.

[faetos]

The only staff with an ongoing workload throughout the holidays are the DC guys, and those involved on the Neptune project as Asia doesn't wind down at this time of year so if they need to be liaised with throughout, which they do as it's an international effort, then the sooner the better as obviously delivery on that product is as time sensitive as always, and Asia winds down end of Jan I believe for a bit.

Isn't the first week in January their New Year.  Big event there I think where everything stops except parades and party for what a week or two?

Chinese new year: 2014   2014-01-31   Horse (2014-01-31—2015-02-18). Most everything comes to a standstill in Asia during this time.

[soy]

heh heh

[The Avenger]

No information to make decisions may be the point.  A group sales figure here on bitcointalk has gear to sell.  It's not KnC gear, it's not too efficient, price isn't great, but the stuff is available and he was an early provider of ASICs to us in this country at the home user level.  He personally put ASICs in miners homes  here while BFL was blowing smoke our way.  If KnC were to say 'We've been working full work weeks producing Jupiters for release in January.' sales of comrade ASIC miners might be damaged.  KnC knows it has the Lexus of Bitcoin Miners at present.  KnC can sell at will all it offers.

They can't. As I've been saying, if they flood the market with new Jupiters, it'll massively impact neptune sales/refunds. Anyone with money would buy a dozen jupiters for delivery in Jan/Feb and cancel all neptune orders. Because 3TH now is worth XXTH in June/July. They can't risk a mass refund on neptunes, as they will have no business. Also, if they flood the market with Jupiters, it'll increase the network hashrate dramatically and that'll make the neptune look less and less attractive. Could even kill it.

So, they are in a delightfully difficult situation   KNC can

1. Sell loads of Jupiters and forget neptune. Lot's of money, but the end of their business.
2. Sell limited number of Jupiters and hope it doesn't damage neptune sales or lead to mass neptune refunds (most likely scenario).
3. Sell loads of Jupiters, but make sure people with neptune orders cannot get a refund. In the process, make themselves the most hated asic company in the world.
4. Don't sell any new Jupiters and rely on neptune. But this bet relies on their competition screwing up and not being able to take the lead for the X months it takes knc to squeeze out the neptune. If competion surges ahead, knc are left behind. Any major delays in neptune - knc are dead.

How many more options do they have?

[vesperwillow]

Avenger has a point. Rock and a hard place really.

Guess you will see some true colors pretty soon.

[Phoenix1969]

No information to make decisions may be the point.  A group sales figure here on bitcointalk has gear to sell.  It's not KnC gear, it's not too efficient, price isn't great, but the stuff is available and he was an early provider of ASICs to us in this country at the home user level.  He personally put ASICs in miners homes  here while BFL was blowing smoke our way.  If KnC were to say 'We've been working full work weeks producing Jupiters for release in January.' sales of comrade ASIC miners might be damaged.  KnC knows it has the Lexus of Bitcoin Miners at present.  KnC can sell at will all it offers.

They can't. As I've been saying, if they flood the market with new Jupiters, it'll massively impact neptune sales/refunds. Anyone with money would buy a dozen jupiters for delivery in Jan/Feb and cancel all neptune orders. Because 3TH now is worth XXTH in June/July. They can't risk a mass refund on neptunes, as they will have no business. Also, if they flood the market with Jupiters, it'll increase the network hashrate dramatically and that'll make the neptune look less and less attractive. Could even kill it.

So, they are in a delightfully difficult situation   KNC can

1. Sell loads of Jupiters and forget neptune. Lot's of money, but the end of their business.
2. Sell limited number of Jupiters and hope it doesn't damage neptune sales or lead to mass neptune refunds (most likely scenario).
3. Sell loads of Jupiters, but make sure people with neptune orders cannot get a refund. In the process, make themselves the most hated asic company in the world.
4. Don't sell any new Jupiters and rely on neptune. But this bet relies on their competition screwing up and not being able to take the lead for the X months it takes knc to squeeze out the neptune. If competion surges ahead, knc are left behind. Any major delays in neptune - knc are dead.

How many more options do they have?

*Keep us clueless 'till the announcement "We have them in stock for immediate shipping".....
No way a Neptune refund would make it in time in that scenario, and then could do both...which is what my guess WAS
Now, I'm not so sure, sounds as if the 28nm idea got 86'd

[xzempt]

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!


With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!

[Phoenix1969]

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!


With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!

Their price has no bite considering it's stating 600Gh/s MAYBE  in March... and given the novel of history, I wouldn't touch that, even with Josh's signature in blood. He's been Wrong, every single time, with every single uttering for a year and a half now....  and with about ten thousand pissed-off customers to testify.....Why would you expect different?

[DPoS]

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!

^^ This is their answer really.  They can still be legit on their word to early customers on waiting before making more Jupiters and still hit their competitors pretty hard.

If KNC just shipped out Jupiters with no case and no heatsinks and already they don't ship PSUs they have a nice margin they can drop vs worrying about power usage wars (meaningless in any scenario vs other factors like delivery time & cost per Gh)

They can keep Neptune on the whiteboard and offer those customers refunds or switching to Jupiters.  Sometimes best to take a step back before hitting a wall.

[soy]

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!


With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!

1st week 2014, 1/1-1/4 probability of Jupiter sales opening, 20%
2nd week 2014, 1/5-1/11 probability of Jupiter sales opening, 45%

these are my guesses.

[soy]

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!


With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!

Their price has no bite considering it's stating 600Gh/s MAYBE  in March... and given the novel of history, I wouldn't touch that, even with Josh's signature in blood. He's been Wrong, every single time, with every single uttering for a year and a half now....  and with about ten thousand pissed-off customers to testify.....Why would you expect different?

wrong if fulfilling most customer's expectations, right if plan was to get pre-paid orders to finance first ASIC development and implementation then sell first to employees and self, then waiting customers and backdoor deals slowly while hashing while the hashing was best for ASICs; then when ROI was almost break even on the miners, really start to ship pre-orders.

[Syke]

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!

With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!

Far from aggressive.

The *only* manufacturer shipping at a reasonable price right now is BitMain. It would be good if KNC would get back in production to provide some competition.

[opentoe]

You really wanna know...  Okay...
In all seriousness... I took the newsletter statement ""we may be in a position to release Jupiter’s and possibly upgrade cards which we will ship from stock." to mean... they will not be preorders, but will be a batch run & assembled before offered for sale, which could then be sold from stock, for immediate shipment. Which would also explain the answers in your emails. Nothing in the statement they made says they have them in stock as I understand it.  What are 40 new employees going to do until Neptune time? Based on the past, they can assemble & ship an entire batch in 2 weeks, so there's plenty of time to pull that one off. That's what I'm betting is happening....  and no, that's NOT an inside scoop, I could be totally off-base too.  

"SOLD FROM STOCK" means what it says, SOLD FROM STOCK. Where in the world would you put together they would have to make them? If they had to make them and put them together and all that, they probably wouldn't have said SOLD FROM STOCK. It was a BALK KNC did to make people get some coin and not purchase from a competitor. Then the Neptune sales came out. It was just a marketing tactic.

[soy]

You really wanna know...  Okay...
In all seriousness... I took the newsletter statement ""we may be in a position to release Jupiter’s and possibly upgrade cards which we will ship from stock." to mean... they will not be preorders, but will be a batch run & assembled before offered for sale, which could then be sold from stock, for immediate shipment. Which would also explain the answers in your emails. Nothing in the statement they made says they have them in stock as I understand it.  What are 40 new employees going to do until Neptune time? Based on the past, they can assemble & ship an entire batch in 2 weeks, so there's plenty of time to pull that one off. That's what I'm betting is happening....  and no, that's NOT an inside scoop, I could be totally off-base too.  

"SOLD FROM STOCK" means what it says, SOLD FROM STOCK. Where in the world would you put together they would have to make them? If they had to make them and put them together and all that, they probably wouldn't have said SOLD FROM STOCK. It was a BALK KNC did to make people get some coin and not purchase from a competitor. Then the Neptune sales came out. It was just a marketing tactic.

They seem good to their word with minor exceptions so far and that's way ahead of others so I'm not going to give the 'just a marketing tactic' any weight.

[1l1l11ll1l]

Well, if HashLast doesn't make KNC sell another batch, I suppose Cointerra will

http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-packaged-chips-system-board-assembly/

[smoothrunnings]

No information to make decisions may be the point.  A group sales figure here on bitcointalk has gear to sell.  It's not KnC gear, it's not too efficient, price isn't great, but the stuff is available and he was an early provider of ASICs to us in this country at the home user level.  He personally put ASICs in miners homes  here while BFL was blowing smoke our way.  If KnC were to say 'We've been working full work weeks producing Jupiters for release in January.' sales of comrade ASIC miners might be damaged.  KnC knows it has the Lexus of Bitcoin Miners at present.  KnC can sell at will all it offers.

They can't. As I've been saying, if they flood the market with new Jupiters, it'll massively impact neptune sales/refunds. Anyone with money would buy a dozen jupiters for delivery in Jan/Feb and cancel all neptune orders. Because 3TH now is worth XXTH in June/July. They can't risk a mass refund on neptunes, as they will have no business. Also, if they flood the market with Jupiters, it'll increase the network hashrate dramatically and that'll make the neptune look less and less attractive. Could even kill it.

So, they are in a delightfully difficult situation   KNC can

1. Sell loads of Jupiters and forget neptune. Lot's of money, but the end of their business.
2. Sell limited number of Jupiters and hope it doesn't damage neptune sales or lead to mass neptune refunds (most likely scenario).
3. Sell loads of Jupiters, but make sure people with neptune orders cannot get a refund. In the process, make themselves the most hated asic company in the world.
4. Don't sell any new Jupiters and rely on neptune. But this bet relies on their competition screwing up and not being able to take the lead for the X months it takes knc to squeeze out the neptune. If competion surges ahead, knc are left behind. Any major delays in neptune - knc are dead.

How many more options do they have?

As you said in #4 they don't sell new Jupiters and rely on the Neptune, but as they continue to do the R&D before they ship the first batch the competition surges again allowing Knc to leap frog the competition with the Neptune. Remember they said it will do a minimum of 3TH/s and that they have the right to increase the hashing rate before its shipped.

Realistically it would have been more wise to buy the 2nd and or 3rd batch of the Neptune's as they are more likely to do more hashing than the first batch whatever its at, be that 3TH/s or more.

It's great to see they decided to focus all their resources (for all we know) on the Neptune and not be spread out thin trying to release a newer Jupiter while working on the Neptune as smaller companies who have spread themselves out too thin end up in bankruptcy pretty quickly.