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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3029380 times)
AussiePete
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January 08, 2014, 07:35:03 AM
 #27481

arousedrhino

I see your point

I actually believe KNC is a smart and reputable  company who wants to protect their reputation ,especially in the minds of  their long term customers\investors are concerned. I dont think they were trying to be misleading or being stupid when they made such statements and I think they will sell some Jupiters soon .

KNC can see that some of there original investors are starting to buy miners else where because of the diff rise continous . Selling more hash power now is smart business and I believe it protects us ("Us" being  their customer base )  I personally  believe its in every investors interest to re-invest asap  (Investors as  in KNC products investors)

Just in case KNC are getting double minded in their decisions , I think we should  let them know .........and Im sure their listening

Pete
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merv77
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January 08, 2014, 08:25:26 AM
 #27482

when does Neptune refund option end? 
it is when they start production, no? 
When is that likely to happen? This week, next week, week after?

What I am getting at is when the option for refunds stop/end, that's when we might see Jupiters for sale again.

I think that KNC are not going to sell Jupiters because of some existing customers started asking for Neptune refunds in order to buy Jupiters.

I also think that if there was no option to refund Neptunes then they would have gone ahead and sold more Jupiters.

Didn't a few guys here say they were going to refund their Neptunes to buy more or some Jupiters?  This is what I remember just after KNC announced that they were going to sell Jupiters again and for us to keep some bitcoins handy. 

If I was in this business I would stop selling Jupiters also because of the fear of Neptune refunds.  They would make more profit if they just did offer them to us and sell them off privately.

This is just my opinion.
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January 08, 2014, 08:52:08 AM
 #27483

Merv

Good points

Bottom line , we the long term re-investors will choose our re purchasers\manufacturers based on the company that producers the best machines at the best times . KNC is right now is that company . Soon we will have proof of other companies  products and services . We will study and weigh up different reports .

The company which makes  better decisions , products and keeping to their promises (without being missleading) in the long run will gain a bigger market share of the sales and therefore greater profit margin in the long term  . Which is basicly is  why we too are investing   ......bottom line greater  profitability in the long term .

I believe KNC have a long term view  in mind as well as short term and they know we do as well ...........The long term profitability is getting as much hashing power in quality machines with a reputable manufacture.........those who acheive that ( on both sides purchaser and manufacturer) They will be the ones to be the most profitable .  

I agree, KNC have to weigh up both sides  , but I think the long term view out weighs the short term view

Pete
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January 08, 2014, 08:59:23 AM
 #27484

Merv

Good points

Bottom line , we the long term re-investors will choose our re purchasers\manufacturers based on the company that producers the best machines at the best times . KNC is right now is that company . Soon we will have proof of other companies products products and services . We will study and weigh up different reports .

The company which makes  better decisions , products and keeping to their promises (without being missleading) in the long run will gain a bigger market share of the sales and therefore greater profit margin in the long term  . Which is basicly is  why we too are investing as  ......bottom line greater  profitability in the long term .

I believe KNC have a long term view  in mind as well as short term and they know we do as well ...........The long term profitability is getting as much hashing power in quality machines with a reputable manufacture.........those who acheive that ( on both sides purchaser and manufacturer) They will be the ones to be the most profitable .  

I agree, KNC have to weigh up both sides  , but I think the long term view out weighs the short term view

Pete
Nice said.
I can add that in my thinking there is no such thing as long term profit. Hash rate will go up as long Manufacturing costs for a single asic chip will not pay out. When that time comes all of us will use long term thinking. My long term thinking currently is as flows:

If i can buy a product for x btc (immediate delivery - in theory) and if  i can mine back x btc for a next 3 mouths  assuming at least 25% diff increase each 10 days I am in. Otherwise i am pass. With my thinking there is no such product currently on sale so i am enjoing what i do have and winter also Wink
What i can say that for the next year or two i will watch the show from the first line but i will not participate

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January 08, 2014, 09:15:10 AM
 #27485

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,
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January 08, 2014, 09:30:10 AM
 #27486

KNC was just quoted at CES saying they are responsible for 70% of the network right now... 

that same report also says that BFL has shipped (well read for yourself)

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/7/5285242/the-bleeding-edge-in-bitcoin-mining-hardware-comes-to-ces


says also that BFL has shipped 45,000 cards (implied monarch cards)

BFL how thru using the media (bad reporting) to make you look better at CES then KNC

45,000 cards my a*s

(BFL is like ASIC NOOB porn...very pretty site...lots of pics.....do a google search noob do a google search...on bfl first!)

Searing

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January 08, 2014, 10:50:34 AM
 #27487

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

.... Only a question of liquidity - Cash flow management is not a higher art....  Wink

I think KnC will exactly face that problem - The second they offer Jupiters (which I doubt they will do) - they are going to face significant amount of Neptune refund requests. At least me - I would dump all my "somewhen" in Q1/Q2 Neptunes for "in-hand" Jupiters.

Jupiter is a proven product - Neptune not.

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January 08, 2014, 10:52:01 AM
 #27488

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

don't get me wrong... I never wanted refund, and never asked for one.  I have only one Neptune ordered and paid for in first customer only batch and I wouldn't want to lose that.
I just remember someone (or two) here actually posted just after announcement of 'Jupiters going on sale by KNC and asking us to keep coins handy' that they had put in for a refund of one or two of their multiple Neptune orders.  I think that's what caused KNC to rethink and retract new sales of Jupiters.  These guys know what I'm talking about (I'm going to mention  Wink) and even post here about keeping us posted about outcome of the refund. 

I don't really care now, even thou I would of bought a Jupiter or 2 if they were to be sold again.   I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we're gonna see Jupiters any more. 

Oh well easy come easy go.
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January 08, 2014, 11:11:08 AM
 #27489


.... Only a question of liquidity - Cash flow management is not a higher art....  Wink

I think KnC will exactly face that problem - The second they offer Jupiters (which I doubt they will do) - they are going to face significant amount of Neptune refund requests. At least me - I would dump all my "somewhen" in Q1/Q2 Neptunes for "in-hand" Jupiters.

Jupiter is a proven product - Neptune not.

This exactly what I mean, you think KNC will sell Jupiters now with a comment like this...  No chance...

If I were KNC I would reject anyone buying Jupiters that asked for refund of Neptunes.. full stop..  You think they are stupid and want to lose money
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January 08, 2014, 11:29:17 AM
 #27490


.... Only a question of liquidity - Cash flow management is not a higher art....  Wink

I think KnC will exactly face that problem - The second they offer Jupiters (which I doubt they will do) - they are going to face significant amount of Neptune refund requests. At least me - I would dump all my "somewhen" in Q1/Q2 Neptunes for "in-hand" Jupiters.

Jupiter is a proven product - Neptune not.

This exactly what I mean, you think KNC will sell Jupiters now with a comment like this...  No chance...

If I were KNC I would reject anyone buying Jupiters that asked for refund of Neptunes.. full stop..  You think they are stupid and want to lose money

But also the more money people make in the short term off jupiters the more neptumes they will sell in the longterm. Also depending on how long they announced selling before opening orders it may be a futile exercise to get a neptune return if its going to take 4-5 days to see money jupiter orders may only last a few hours/days depending on stock level.

Edit: I do hope they make any announcement soon though AMT 1200ghs mid march delivery close jan 9. Without any jupiters that may be my earliest chance to get a decent amount of ghs to combat difficulty
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January 08, 2014, 11:33:23 AM
 #27491

Have been running some scenarios on difficulty... Am getting a little nervous about profitability. HF & CT haven't released anything, yet the difficulty keeps steadily going up... Must be a dark horse in China or something. Anyone else have any perspective on breaking even with these?
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January 08, 2014, 11:34:40 AM
 #27492

Merv

Well said

Its a 50\50 call . I actually said to a mate who is a miner " If I was KNC I would never had put out that "Protection Statement"............but it was written to build consumer confidence .........and some people,  I expect , purchased the 2nd Jupiters sale which brought in over $5 million usd to KNC .

From my studies, no one on this forum requested any kind of promises ..........but the business decision was made ........statement given , mid July

Then came  ........."keep handy some btc coins ..........they will go fast ........hint hint ........

KNC dont owe me anything .............they have helped me make $$.... so thankyou KNC ........what we are really talking about is "Customer Protection Share" in 30 days or in 90 days plus ..............Which decision is our Best Protection ........my calculations according to this continous rising diff ......Sell me more



de_ixie

.............Hi ...... Ive got 2 Neptunes coming..................and there's No Way I'm going to let anyone else get them ...............(I would lose money) .............But if KNC wants to protect my existing hashing power ................then sell me a Jupiter .......pretty please

Pete
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January 08, 2014, 11:48:49 AM
 #27493


.............Hi ...... Ive got 2 Neptunes coming..................and there's No Way I'm going to let anyone else get them ...............(I would lose money) .............But if KNC wants to protect my existing hashing power ................then sell me a Jupiter .......pretty please

Pete

I concur
sell me a Jupiter .......pretty pretty please with sugar on top
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January 08, 2014, 12:21:52 PM
 #27494

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

don't get me wrong... I never wanted refund, and never asked for one.  I have only one Neptune ordered and paid for in first customer only batch and I wouldn't want to lose that.
I just remember someone (or two) here actually posted just after announcement of 'Jupiters going on sale by KNC and asking us to keep coins handy' that they had put in for a refund of one or two of their multiple Neptune orders.  I think that's what caused KNC to rethink and retract new sales of Jupiters.  These guys know what I'm talking about (I'm going to mention  Wink) and even post here about keeping us posted about outcome of the refund.  

I don't really care now, even thou I would of bought a Jupiter or 2 if they were to be sold again.   I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we're gonna see Jupiters any more.  

Oh well easy come easy go.

Yep, I completely agree with all of your points so far. I'm still waiting for the wire transfer to complete on that refund I asked for btw, which I realize has been slowed down by the holidays. If they release more Jupiters in the next 10 days, then I'd say it's already too late for anyone else hoping to refund Neptunes for Jupiters.

One of the biggest reasons I decided to ask for a refund on one of the three Neptunes is because of the power requirements. I hope they come to a decision either way soon and let us know. There are a couple other manufacturer's products I wouldn't mind trying, but I'd prefer to have more KnC.

KnC, please take my money before I give it to someone else!

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January 08, 2014, 01:10:09 PM
 #27495

de_ixie

.............Hi ...... Ive got 2 Neptunes coming..................and there's No Way I'm going to let anyone else get them ...............(I would lose money) .............But if KNC wants to protect my existing hashing power ................then sell me a Jupiter .......pretty please

Pete

So it is win-win for me. Honestly, I just don't see your point???

This is ok - we might have completely different motives - be prepared for whatever you want to achieve (I am and you will - no doubt).

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January 08, 2014, 01:54:01 PM
 #27496

Hi  De_ixie

Yes I agree our motivation or game plan are definitley different , probably based on the hope of profit of early Neptunes  vrs .........getting as many of the best miners producing the most  hashing power as possible  as soon as possible . The Best Customer protection in my books  : )

The main reason I am persisting in explaining (which I dont normally do ) is I think we will All be better off in even 4 months time with more hashing power . Short term protection is near sited and will  cost  $$$ in 3 to 4 months .

The Neptunes at $10 K is only the begining .............As Ive hinted at earlier  , my take is that  KNC have a more dominant long term vision which will be much profitable for all .

I hope I'm right

Peace

Pete
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January 08, 2014, 02:38:11 PM
 #27497

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

.... Only a question of liquidity - Cash flow management is not a higher art....  Wink

I think KnC will exactly face that problem - The second they offer Jupiters (which I doubt they will do) - they are going to face significant amount of Neptune refund requests. At least me - I would dump all my "somewhen" in Q1/Q2 Neptunes for "in-hand" Jupiters.

Jupiter is a proven product - Neptune not.
"From stock" means you won't have time.... good luck with that.


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January 08, 2014, 02:38:55 PM
 #27498

Either that or Hashfast didn't ship, Cointerra haven't shipped so the need to keep up right this minute with adding more hashing power didn't materialise - so no requirement
 to sell more Jupiters.

I agree.  We were expecting a major jump in network hashrate that didn't happen but this steady up slope of hashrate and dwindling of returns continues - apparently just not enough in their eyes to justify production and shipment of new Jupiters.
What?.... 30 and 20% jumps aren't enough? hahahahahaah
I think the deciding factor is .....   "Is there time"?
They may be further along with Neptune than anyone thought.     Wink
It only takes two weeks to assemble & ship a Jupiter run... plus time for some parts... we already know that....
If you look way back to the NPS, (not that it still applies) you will see they originally planned on delivering Neptune in March.
Given they allowed some time cushion in estimating delivery... I expect they might have gained on that estimate.
If they started a Jupiter run right now, they would be already dangerously close to hindering Neptune delivery,
which is most likely the decision they are making...  and nothing to do with the NPS.


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Phoenix1969
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January 08, 2014, 02:45:24 PM
 #27499

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

don't get me wrong... I never wanted refund, and never asked for one.  I have only one Neptune ordered and paid for in first customer only batch and I wouldn't want to lose that.
I just remember someone (or two) here actually posted just after announcement of 'Jupiters going on sale by KNC and asking us to keep coins handy' that they had put in for a refund of one or two of their multiple Neptune orders.  I think that's what caused KNC to rethink and retract new sales of Jupiters.  These guys know what I'm talking about (I'm going to mention  Wink) and even post here about keeping us posted about outcome of the refund.  

I don't really care now, even thou I would of bought a Jupiter or 2 if they were to be sold again.   I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we're gonna see Jupiters any more.  

Oh well easy come easy go.

Yep, I completely agree with all of your points so far. I'm still waiting for the wire transfer to complete on that refund I asked for btw, which I realize has been slowed down by the holidays. If they release more Jupiters in the next 10 days, then I'd say it's already too late for anyone else hoping to refund Neptunes for Jupiters.

One of the biggest reasons I decided to ask for a refund in one of the three Neptunes is because of the power requirements. I hope they come to a decision either way soon and let us know. There are a couple other manufacturer's products I wouldn't mind trying, but I'd prefer to have more KnC.

KnC, please take my money before I give it to someone else!

+1   but keeping 3, if that goes okay....  then progress...  might be time already to think about opening up shop somewhere


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de_ixie
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January 08, 2014, 02:56:18 PM
 #27500

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

.... Only a question of liquidity - Cash flow management is not a higher art....  Wink

I think KnC will exactly face that problem - The second they offer Jupiters (which I doubt they will do) - they are going to face significant amount of Neptune refund requests. At least me - I would dump all my "somewhen" in Q1/Q2 Neptunes for "in-hand" Jupiters.

Jupiter is a proven product - Neptune not.
"From stock" means you won't have time.... good luck with that.

Old seasoned perma online grabber here - my Neptune order is close to yours (5-6 positions behind - wanted to pay with paypal mee - didnt work) - fast like a rabbit Wink

Edit: Sure - you can not use the refund money 1:1 - but still, call your bank of trust, let them give you a 5 day short time loan (done in 1 minute) and buy Jupiters from stock. Whole process is like 2 min. If KnC only accepts BC payment - you are right. Strategy doesnt work and I am done.  Cheesy

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