Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Phoenix1969]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC  

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.

maybe because bitstamp BTC withdrawals are frozen till friday?

[1714010598]

1714010598

[1714010598]

1714010598

[RenHoek]

KNC KURT Today, 11:35 AM at KNC Forum


Hi guys,

....

 To dive straight into your questions, this Plan B hosting facility is going to be utilizing the 28nm chip and not the 20nm for the Neptune miners. This is being built so that we do not follow the trends of our competition, by under delivering or simply not delivering at all. We are still working out many of the details regarding Plan A and plan B , but as of this moment, our main focus is the development our 20nm chip.

 We will release more details as soon as we have more definite answers.


   
Last edited by Kurt; Today, 11:50 AM.

[Phoenix1969]

THX RenHoek

[edgar]

i requested a 2nd (3rd) batch refund a few days ago, i was asked to provide FULL Bank Account details.

i paid via BitPay...

Kurt says the refund will be completed 'shortly'

Are they just making it up as they go along now that butbutbutcoinorama & phakeonix arent doing it for them...?

[InCoinsITrust]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC  

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.

Is that assumtion is real about BTC getting 200$ value or just gamble ?

[Biodom]

i requested a 2nd (3rd) batch refund a few days ago, i was asked to provide FULL Bank Account details.

i paid via BitPay...

Kurt says the refund will be completed 'shortly'

Are they just making it up as they go along now that butbutbutcoinorama & phakeonix arent doing it for them...?

FULL? All of SWIFT, IBAN, routing number and accounting number? Or just SWIFT, IBAN and accounting number?
Thanks

[vesperwillow]

KNC KURT Today, 11:35 AM at KNC Forum
 To dive straight into your questions, this Plan B hosting facility is going to be utilizing the 28nm chip and not the 20nm for the Neptune miners. This is being built so that we do not follow the trends of our competition, by under delivering or simply not delivering at all. We are still working out many of the details regarding Plan A and plan B , but as of this moment, our main focus is the development our 20nm chip.

Funny, for almost 60 days now his competition has been shipping.

Wordplay.

House for sale. New flooring, windows and wallpaper

(picture of house burning)

[The Avenger]

... This is being built so that we do not follow the trends of our competition, by under delivering or simply not delivering at all...

Ahem

Sam: Tell me how you got all that money and shipped everything late?
Josh: You'll learn.

KNC are learning how to do it - from the best!

[dropt]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC  

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.

maybe because bitstamp BTC withdrawals are frozen till friday?

Nowhere did anyone say the KnC was buying BTC at Bitstamp and then sending them from there.  You're making shit up again.

[Phoenix1969]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC 

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.

maybe because bitstamp BTC withdrawals are frozen till friday?

Nowhere did anyone say the KnC was buying BTC at Bitstamp and then sending them from there.  You're making shit up again.

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?) 

Seems pretty clear to me.  Must be another reading comprehension thing.

[dropt]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC 

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.

maybe because bitstamp BTC withdrawals are frozen till friday?

Nowhere did anyone say the KnC was buying BTC at Bitstamp and then sending them from there.  You're making shit up again.

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?) 

Seems pretty clear to me.  Must be another reading comprehension thing.

I hope you're inferring that you're having a "reading comprehension thing".

arlekyn13 clearly states that KnC is using the bitstamp rate.  Not that KnC is buying from bitstamp.

[1Neptune]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC  

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.

maybe because bitstamp BTC withdrawals are frozen till friday?

Nowhere did anyone say the KnC was buying BTC at Bitstamp and then sending them from there.  You're making shit up again.

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?)  

Seems pretty clear to me.  Must be another reading comprehension thing.

I hope you're inferring that you're having a "reading comprehension thing".

arlekyn13 clearly states that KnC is using the bitstamp rate.  Not that KnC is buying from bitstamp.

KnC is using the bitstamp rate as a reference point to determine value at that moment, much as banks use the LIBOR rate for currency trades the next day. Not complicated.

[WillMilk4Coin]

Just wanted to chime in with some thoughts of KnC's intentions, Neptunes, Plans A & B, cloudhashing, others' assumptions and your mom.

First, I'd like to make the point that there isn't a single one among us that have enough real details to make a truly fair and objective assessment of what KnC will be doing for their customers in the next 5-6 months. Neither rape nor reward. It is loathsome reading all this entirely negative banter being regurgitated over and over, built on assumptions and hypotheticals, in regard to KnC having royally screwed their customers dry only to realize their own selfish goals.

Might this plan B really have been plan A since the inception of KnC? Maybe, and even likely. In some communication with Sam at the beginning of May of last year in regard to hosting/cloudhashing, he told me, "... But we see that with hardware getting more and more expensive people with $100 to "invest" will have nowhere to turn to mine coins soon and we don't like that it makes this an elitists activity and we will look at ways of allowing the man/woman with a hundred bucks still be a part of the community." In another comment he goes on to say, "... The mining hardware market has treated its customers quite badly. We aim to show that not all companies are as bad as others, But what we really want is to show that if the community gather together they can help shape us providers and hold us to standards. So that the new companies which come along will have to meet those standards."

Now, it's possible that he was simply feeding me, a potential customer, a line of complete bullshit. It's possible that due to their success, greed has jaded the minds of KnC's execs. It's also possible that they simply are carrying out exactly the plan they intended to do from the very beginning. Ever since those comments, I KNEW KnC would eventually bring online a mining datacenter with cloudhashing services. It was only a matter of time. I am actually surprised it is only just now starting to come about. And let's be honest, who here is naive enough to deny that mining was inevitably turning into a cloudhashing landscape in which mines were placed in the most economically practical locations? Who would you prefer build these mega-mines, by the way? With the amount of capital investment being driven into BTC, and particularly mining, it is unfeasible for a solitary, small-time home hobbyist to maintain a practically impactful amount of hashpower in their home and these cloudhashing services (will) give anyone a lower cost, lower barrier of entry to get involved. Are there some concerns over centralizing the equipment for mining? Absolutely! However, the risks can be mitigated. It isn't difficult to imagine ways to accomplish this. Perhaps mines can be built in many different locations all over the world to avoid any physical politcal takeovers. Perhaps these cloudhashing contracts can come with the conditions that the customer assumes control of where the miner is pointed. Perhaps numerous companies, or even crowd funded projects, can offer these cloudhashing services in direct competition to each other to force better prices and more control to interested miners. WHEN you've got numerous options competing for your business, the customer wins. When confronted with the inevitable, perhaps what we really want is something that looks less like what Cex.io is doing and more like ..hmm, what maybe KnC is trying to do?

I am NOT advocating for KnC or all the decisions and statements that they have made or will make. Things may very well go sour for them and/or their customers -myself included. However, the point is nobody here knows a damn thing certain enough to say KnC, for a fact, is trying to do 'this' or trying to rape its customers like 'that'. Your accusations are built on assumptions. Will their mega-mine/s eat into your Neptune's return? Yes. Sorry, you'll either have to wait 6 months instead of the traditional 3 months to profit; or you can likely sell your machine for huge profit after you've even mined for a while. How could anyone expect KnC to not act like a business interested in ..staying in business? Enough of these "broken promises", "they said they'd sell machines, but now they're not", "they actually DO want everyone to refund their order" bullshit statements. If you knew a tertiary goal may either fail, or detract from the primary goal, would you still blindly carry through with it? Asinine! Anyone remember Mars? Anyone remember buying a 250Gh machine, and receiving a 450-550Gh machine? I guess I understand why, but companies in this BTC world are given absolutely no wiggle room to adjust plans and strategies. It boils down to, YOU make the best decision you can for yourself based off the information available at the time. And by all means, please keep asking for refunds. I wonder how far my late batch 1 miner has moved up since the announcement of plan B. Hell, I may still ask for a refund myself if they are ..now offering refunds in BTC at today's rate? They don't even have to do this! They could have not said a damn word about their plans for a mega-mine, not given any customers a safety net or right to any share of its hashpower, and surprised the the mining community in a few months.

...and assuming there's bad news or KnC being up to no good ...because Bitcoinorama has logged in and not commented? I almost shit myself after reading such an inane and baseless accusation. Assumptions up the ass in here. I didn't plan on saying something like this, but after seeing your Sam and Josh pic, Avenger, you're an idiot despite your exceedingly rare inklings of logical thought and deductions. I'll be surprised if you (or anyone) made it this far to see it anyway.

Tell your mom I'll call her back tomorrow.

[Phoenix1969]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC  

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.

maybe because bitstamp BTC withdrawals are frozen till friday?

Nowhere did anyone say the KnC was buying BTC at Bitstamp and then sending them from there.  You're making shit up again.

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?)  

Seems pretty clear to me.  Must be another reading comprehension thing.

I hope you're inferring that you're having a "reading comprehension thing".

arlekyn13 clearly states that KnC is using the bitstamp rate.  Not that KnC is buying from bitstamp.

KnC is using the bitstamp rate as a reference point to determine value at that moment, much as banks use the LIBOR rate for currency trades the next day. Not complicated.

ROFL... right.     Like I said...reading comprehension

[dropt]

[...]

 ... But we see that with hardware getting more and more expensive people with $100 to "invest" will have nowhere to turn to mine coins soon and we don't like that it makes this an elitists activity and we will look at ways of allowing the man/woman with a hundred bucks still be a part of the community."

[...]

I respect what you're trying to say, but this statement by KnC is a little bit BS IMO.  Who's in charge of making this "more and more" expensive hardware?   Why do these manufacturers insist on end-goals of creating >1TH machines that consume more power than the average home circuit will allow?  

They don't have to, they choose to.  If KnC cared about the little guy, why not package a single 28nm die and sell it to third party designer/manufactures just like everyone else?  I think it's a little hypocritical to talk about how poor it is of manufacturers to leave the little guy with no option, then turn around and do exactly that.  Instead they're just pushing to make larger power hungry machinery meant for datacenters.  That's fine, but don't pass off a private 10PH farm under their direct control as a means to supporting the little guy.

[1Neptune]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC  

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.

maybe because bitstamp BTC withdrawals are frozen till friday?

Nowhere did anyone say the KnC was buying BTC at Bitstamp and then sending them from there.  You're making shit up again.

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?)  

Seems pretty clear to me.  Must be another reading comprehension thing.

I hope you're inferring that you're having a "reading comprehension thing".

arlekyn13 clearly states that KnC is using the bitstamp rate.  Not that KnC is buying from bitstamp.

KnC is using the bitstamp rate as a reference point to determine value at that moment, much as banks use the LIBOR rate for currency trades the next day. Not complicated.

ROFL... right.     Like I said...reading comprehension

Says he that dumped all his Neptunes, talked his brother into doing the same, as both fell for the latest marketing hype of a brand new group claiming to be soon to market and actual production of 20nm machines, then pleads desperately with the community to help recover his stolen btc after he discovers his due diligence wasn't so well done after all.

Yeah... right... reading comprehension. I see why so many others on this board detest you so much.

[WillMilk4Coin]

I respect what you're trying to say, but this statement by KnC is a little bit BS IMO.  Who's in charge of making this "more and more" expensive hardware?   Why do these manufacturers insist on end-goals of creating >1TH machines that consume more power than the average home circuit will allow?  

They don't have to, they choose to.  If KnC cared about the little guy, why not package a single 28nm die and sell it to third party designer/manufactures just like everyone else?  I think it's a little hypocritical to talk about how poor it is of manufacturers to leave the little guy with no option, then turn around and do exactly that.  Instead they're just pushing to make larger power hungry machinery meant for datacenters.  That's fine, but don't pass off a private 10PH farm under their direct control as a means to supporting the little guy.

Because the driving force of all things is personal gain. I want a larger share than you so that I will make more. Hence, larger/faster/more efficient machines. As I said before, I'm not trying to advocate the actions of KnC, but it is entirely inevitable that overall selfish greed drives intent for larger profit. Nobody will resign to a gentleman's agreement and say, my slice of the cake is large enough.

But they're not leaving the little guy with no option -they will offer affordable cloudhashing. Maybe you're not thinking about a small enough guy? You can't deny that cloudhashing is extremely accessible and more affordable to every average person. There is a tremendously wider customer market for such a service. What percentage of people do you think has the capacity to run, mod and maintain a miner at home?

As far as what KnC chooses to do; 1)Create larger machines for cloudhashing services or 2) create many, many cheap chips to distribute among small miners -that's entirely their prerogative to choose for their business. If you don't agree with that model or share that same perspective, you can vote with your wallet by buying from another vendor. (Hopefully, we see more manufacturers that do take route 2 as I DON'T want to subscribe to cloudhashing either)

[The Avenger]

I didn't plan on saying something like this, but after seeing your Sam and Josh pic, Avenger, you're an idiot despite your exceedingly rare inklings of logical thought and deductions. I'll be surprised if you (or anyone) made it this far to see it anyway.

Tell your mom I'll call her back tomorrow.

I did and she said she wants her underwear back. Stop stealing her underwear and wearing it to work you sick puppy.

Regarding the pic - are knc not taking money, promising delivery at a certain date and then once they have collected everybodies money, announcing delays ala BFL? The picture + caption stands as good now as it did in November when they failed to deliver.

They will NOT NOT NOT deliver in Q1. That's totally obvious now to everyone, although pretty clear to many of us since last year.

And they are building a datacentre "just in case" they don't deliver in Q2?? Who believes that bullshit?!

Anyone building a datacentre "just in case" either
- having worked on Neptune design since mid December (their words), they now realised they totally can't deliver in Q2.
or
- it's an excuse to build a datacentre for themselves, breaking all their promises to previous customers, but trying to pretend it's only for their customers benefit.

I've pointed out a million ways it won't benefit their customers, but whatever. You/they can see it whatever way you like. Be positive about this one and see where it gets you.

Regarding the email you have from Sam, there was plenty "we won't forget the help you have given us" bs floating around before October, when they really needed people's money. But now they have stabbed everyone in the back, broken all their promises and won't sell existing customers anything.

If you believe the content of that email from "humble we need your help sam" is still valid and is what "we are visionary millionaires, let's build an empire in the arctic circle next to facebook sam" is thinking now, either you haven't been following this thread or you are way too gullible. Or maybe my mom's underwear is squeezing your brain too much  

[vesperwillow]

First, I'd like to make the point that there isn't a single one among us that have enough real details to make a truly fair and objective assessment of what KnC will be doing for their customers in the next 5-6 months. Neither rape nor reward.

You clearly haven't kept up with the entire thread, and the KNC forums, or spoken to any insiders, or Bitcoinorama.

It is loathsome reading all this entirely negative banter being regurgitated over and over, built on assumptions and hypotheticals

Referring you back to my first response above.

But they're not leaving the little guy with no option -they will offer affordable cloudhashing. Maybe you're not thinking about a small enough guy? You can't deny that cloudhashing is extremely accessible and more affordable to every average person. There is a tremendously wider customer market for such a service. What percentage of people do you think has the capacity to run, mod and maintain a miner at home?

They aren't leaving an AFFORDABLE option, if you include context of ROI with 'affordable'.

Again, referencing my first response. It's as if you haven't studied any of the facts at all. And I'm not just talking of the last 20 pages.. or even 500. All of it.

[Phoenix1969]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC 

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.

maybe because bitstamp BTC withdrawals are frozen till friday?

Nowhere did anyone say the KnC was buying BTC at Bitstamp and then sending them from there.  You're making shit up again.

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?) 

Seems pretty clear to me.  Must be another reading comprehension thing.

I hope you're inferring that you're having a "reading comprehension thing".

arlekyn13 clearly states that KnC is using the bitstamp rate.  Not that KnC is buying from bitstamp.

KnC is using the bitstamp rate as a reference point to determine value at that moment, much as banks use the LIBOR rate for currency trades the next day. Not complicated.

ROFL... right.     Like I said...reading comprehension

Says he that dumped all his Neptunes, talked his brother into doing the same, as both fell for the latest marketing hype of a brand new group claiming to be soon to market and actual production of 20nm machines, then pleads desperately with the community to help recover his stolen btc after he discovers his due diligence wasn't so well done after all.

Yeah... right... reading comprehension. I see why so many others on this board detest you so much.

Nice try on changing the subject.
You really think they would say "at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place." and refund from elsewhere?
This is like explaining isotropic vector matrix equilibrium to a monkey. Useless.