Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[Lollaskates]

Batch #4 chip owners, ATTENTION

As an owner of 219 chips in Batch #4, I'd like to opt for a refund, demanded from Avalon by steamboat.

Anybody else in Batch #4 who wants to join me in this statement and demand full refund for their order?

I'm with you on the refund (Batch #4 256 chips), however I have also paid for assembly and I do not feel like Steamboat deserves to be left holding the bag. I would rather keep my chips (or some alternative answer, like credit toward gen2, additional chips, discount on chips, etc) so that there is no complication involving the assembly portion of the cost. Steamboat has done a fantastic job and deserves to be treated with respect.

[cpengr]

Batch #4 chip owners, ATTENTION

As an owner of 219 chips in Batch #4, I'd like to opt for a refund, demanded from Avalon by steamboat.

Anybody else in Batch #4 who wants to join me in this statement and demand full refund for their order?

I'm with you on the refund (Batch #4 256 chips), however I have also paid for assembly and I do not feel like Steamboat deserves to be left holding the bag. I would rather keep my chips (or some alternative answer, like credit toward gen2, additional chips, discount on chips, etc) so that there is no complication involving the assembly portion of the cost. Steamboat has done a fantastic job and deserves to be treated with respect.

Boxman90 has not demanded, asked, or requested that steamboat refund his assembly. I am guessing that was on purpose.

I second the motion (64 chips batch 6; 48 in batch 5 by proxy).

I will add an idea, in an attempt to minimize our losses, but also treat steamboat fairly: steamboat cancels as much as possible of the orders for parts for assembly / supporting hardware, to recoup as much of that as possible. He subtracts the profit that he had planned to make on the assembly from whatever is recovered, and then divides that proportionally among those who had ordered the assembly.

[villex]

+1

16 chips batch 5

[ionstorm]

I don't think Avalon will refund at all, all chips will eventually reach steamboat.  If Avalon will not refund, steamboat cannot refund unless someone else wants to take your chip order.  And that should be your responsibility.  As for paid assembly, I don't think there should be any refunds.  Once steamboat starts getting chips he won't have time to process these requests, we all know what we got into.  I spent my whole savings personally, and just recently got layed off yet I'm requesting no refund because I know what we got into.  I'm hoping for the best.  Maybe if were lucky Avalon will at least throw in some free gen 2 chips for being so patient and dealing with issues.  Only time will tell, hope we get shipping confirmation soon on batch 1 & 2

[cpengr]

we all know what we got into.

I got into a risky investment. The risk was reasonably thought to be based on difficulty of the network growing, unproven board designs, and steamboat himself, as I don't think we knew of his track record.

As far as I knew at the time, Avalon had delivered their miners on time, and they were working as advertised. They stated in their "no bullshit" terms on the chips that "the lead time on the chips is 9 to 10 weeks." It's been..16? That is breach of contract, it is not what I signed up for, it is most certainly not something we knowingly got into. Yifu gave some bullshit half-assed excuses, which doesn't even adequately explain the situation--without proof, and without even an actual ETA. (There is "chips will resume shipping by end of next week", which doesn't even tell us how late they will actually be, etc.)

Yifu appears to be trying to pull a fast one, and it has cost you and me and many others money, it was not a known risk, and you just want to bend over and take it, and let him get away with it, and you want all of us to do the same? Boggles my mind.

[r3wt]

wow, one never has to wonder far from the bitcoin forum to enjoy a good scifi novel. +1 for the laugh yifu.

[hoss]

I have much more to say but I will keep it short.

If Avalon will refund BTC I believe its our best option (~9K investor here).  Although, there are many details to work out - one of which is making sure steamboat, or any of us, don't get steam rolled.

Everyone should look at this investment/gamble as a simple 'how long until I get the raw BTC I invested back' vs if I had just sat on the BTC over time.  Removing the speculation of USD price of BTC + power to mine helps show how bad our investment really is. (I would love to see your calculations ... I'm sad) Also, for those 'long term thinkers' at ~3years we half the BTC return for mining a block, so I call that the hard cutoff.

As of now-now we have clearly missed the 'early ASIC' boat, the next power play is to get our hands on the most watt efficient hashing chips. Clearly 110nm is not it.  

<redacted>

[Boxman90]

I don't think Avalon will refund at all, all chips will eventually reach steamboat.  If Avalon will not refund, steamboat cannot refund unless someone else wants to take your chip order.  And that should be your responsibility.  As for paid assembly, I don't think there should be any refunds.  Once steamboat starts getting chips he won't have time to process these requests, we all know what we got into.  I spent my whole savings personally, and just recently got layed off yet I'm requesting no refund because I know what we got into.  I'm hoping for the best.  Maybe if were lucky Avalon will at least throw in some free gen 2 chips for being so patient and dealing with issues.  Only time will tell, hope we get shipping confirmation soon on batch 1 & 2

If steamboat is willing to stand his ground, he can easily demand a refund from Avalon. Remember, they are in serious breach of contract.

[BitCsByBit]

Is the revised board hashing yet?

BKK, I know this is the last thought any of us want to even think about right now, but what would it take to adapt a new gen2 chip to the exisitng board? Has that been given any thought? please forgive me for even asking in these trying times...sometimes in life when we are given lemons, we should try to make lemonade assuming some resolution were to come our way, short of getting refunds from avalon, a chip credit/deal if in fact the ordered chips never happen of course. Thx, your the best!

I didn't do any board work this weekend. It was a long weekend here (Queens birthday), so was noisy with celebrations. I did prepare orders to ship and have about a dozen to go out today when I get in to the post office. It was closed yesterday.

I don't have enough info on Gen 2 chips. Supposedly they'll be somewhat compatible but I don't know what that means yet and which pins might change if any. My guess is that they could possibly be swapped in with only software changes, but who knows.

I'm a bit bummed about how things have gone, and not as focussed on getting all my boards made as I should be. I either need a holiday or some good news on chip shipments. I'm quite tired but will get back to it soon.

I think i can help .
Yesterday I got 30 chips from nowhere...
Sent from hong kong. No update on Avalon order page.
Any update on test of fully populated K16.?
We are busy here with our design and did not have the chance to populate and test the last final K16 version

There could be some good news on the horizon.

Edit: marto74 is an owner of a group buy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212031.0;topicseen

[rammy2k2]

people calm down with your refunds ... there wont be any ... all we can do is wait ...

[Boxman90]

people calm down with your refunds ... there wont be any ... all we can do is wait ...

As long as enough sheeple keep saying "we have to wait", well that's all there is to it. Let me repeat

Avalon is in serious breach of contract and we need to take a god damn stand

There could be some good news on the horizon.

Edit: marto74 is an owner of a group buy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212031.0;topicseen

Those are the sample chips, 30 per order. Meaning that the lead on that order is still 4 weeks if Avalon keeps following the timetable they had set out for the chips delivery. Samples after 5 weeks, actual order 4~5 weeks after that.

[BitCsByBit]

people calm down with your refunds ... there wont be any ... all we can do is wait ...

As long as enough sheeple keep saying "we have to wait", well that's all there is to it. Let me repeat

Avalon is in serious breach of contract and we need to take a god damn stand

There could be some good news on the horizon.

Edit: marto74 is an owner of a group buy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212031.0;topicseen

Those are the sample chips, 30 per order. Meaning that the lead on that order is still 4 weeks if Avalon keeps following the timetable they had set out for the chips delivery. Samples after 5 weeks, actual order 4~5 weeks after that.

Fair enough, but the point is that there is movement.

One more:

Please note that the chips may ship without warning as I've received confirmation from another operator that the sample chips were shipped without any changes in my order page. Damn Avalon!

[driksson]

people calm down with your refunds ... there wont be any ... all we can do is wait ...

As long as enough sheeple keep saying "we have to wait", well that's all there is to it. Let me repeat

Avalon is in serious breach of contract and we need to take a god damn stand

There could be some good news on the horizon.

Edit: marto74 is an owner of a group buy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212031.0;topicseen

Those are the sample chips, 30 per order. Meaning that the lead on that order is still 4 weeks if Avalon keeps following the timetable they had set out for the chips delivery. Samples after 5 weeks, actual order 4~5 weeks after that.

Fair enough, but the point is that there is movement.

One more:

Please note that the chips may ship without warning as I've received confirmation from another operator that the sample chips were shipped without any changes in my order page. Damn Avalon!

Very alarming news John.. Nothing positive of samples getting shipped on past due orders. another 10 weeks and difficulty is double.

[ew4by]

Sales of the first generation of chips, now, like the sale of chips intel 486 today......  

Refund!!! 

[driksson]

people calm down with your refunds ... there wont be any ... all we can do is wait ...

Any specific reason why you are speaking on behalf of Avalon?
I've said it before, lets solve world peace! LETS WAIT!
If we don't speak up, nothing will happend. Ofcourse. (and we will receive miners making $.10c/day.)
All we should do, is ask for refund, if no refund, ask for compensation, if no compensation, ask for more chips or gen 2 chips.
Waiting solves very little problems.

[rammy2k2]

people calm down with your refunds ... there wont be any ... all we can do is wait ...

Any specific reason why you are speaking on behalf of Avalon?
I've said it before, lets solve world peace! LETS WAIT!
If we don't speak up, nothing will happend. Ofcourse. (and we will receive miners making $.10c/day.)
All we should do, is ask for refund, if no refund, ask for compensation, if no compensation, ask for more chips or gen 2 chips.
Waiting solves very little problems.

reason is im realistic, we got in this game, now we pay for it ... its simple ... no more pre-orders from now on, lesson learned

[ew4by]

people calm down with your refunds ... there wont be any ... all we can do is wait ...

Any specific reason why you are speaking on behalf of Avalon?
I've said it before, lets solve world peace! LETS WAIT!
If we don't speak up, nothing will happend. Ofcourse. (and we will receive miners making $.10c/day.)
All we should do, is ask for refund, if no refund, ask for compensation, if no compensation, ask for more chips or gen 2 chips.
Waiting solves very little problems.

+1000000!!!

FULL REFUND !!!!!

[Galli]

All we should do, is ask for refund, if no refund, ask for compensation, if no compensation, ask for more chips or gen 2 chips.
Waiting solves very little problems.

I agree, something to compensate us for a month delay is not unreasonable.  Everyone but the purchaser is making money off this deal

[driksson]

All we should do, is ask for refund, if no refund, ask for compensation, if no compensation, ask for more chips or gen 2 chips.
Waiting solves very little problems.

I agree, something to compensate us for a month delay is not unreasonable.  Everyone but the purchaser is making money off this deal

It would be one month delay if batch 1 gets their chips NOW...
How many months for batch 2-3-4-5-6? (where i think batch 5 is 2 weeks delayed now, and batch 6 is just getting due mid next month, so batch 6 should start seeing sample chips around now).

[driksson]

people calm down with your refunds ... there wont be any ... all we can do is wait ...

Any specific reason why you are speaking on behalf of Avalon?
I've said it before, lets solve world peace! LETS WAIT!
If we don't speak up, nothing will happend. Ofcourse. (and we will receive miners making $.10c/day.)
All we should do, is ask for refund, if no refund, ask for compensation, if no compensation, ask for more chips or gen 2 chips.
Waiting solves very little problems.

reason is im realistic, we got in this game, now we pay for it ... its simple ... no more pre-orders from now on, lesson learned

There's no reason for us to take all the risk here. We are not talking about an unregulated, unregistered american company. Thats what im stressing..
But if you want to take all the fault here and call it lesson learned. Well noted, i doubt the people with 10k+ invested in this shares your thoughts and views.