Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history)

[drAGon925]

Everybody are on IRC or wtf,

if you know something about new attack, (I think that is attack again),
let us noobs here know whats going on, and is there some plan to stop that before ZC..

Thanks

edit:

site+wiki under attack or my connectivity delays

[AnonCoinTwitter]

Is the Zerocoin implementation going to be trustless? As I understand it, there's a key that needs to be destroyed. If that can't be overcome, this coin has no future.

Yes, it will be trustless. You can read more on the wiki:

https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Zerocoin
https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA-UFO

Great Wiki updates! Hopefully this will clear up any confusion some people may have

I added a link to Twitter:
https://twitter.com/AnoncoinTeam/status/515581992344489984

[gunzeon]

Everybody are on IRC or wtf,

if you know something about new attack, (I think that is attack again),
let us noobs here know whats going on, and is there some plan to stop that before ZC..

Thanks

edit:

site+wiki under attack or my connectivity delays

The network is under attack since 17 hours but anoncoin devs are not aware or don't care.

Network under attack: no response
Cryptsy transactions problem: no response or say Craptsy
I ask responses on the trustless scam: no response or say Troll

And, again, what's your point ? Is this the only thread in town ? Why did you come out from under your rock again ?

Maybe it's you doing the dossing, since as you can'r read why else would you try the wiki ?

[Simcom]

Is the network under attack or is the website down? Big difference.

[drAGon925]

I didn't want to take the snake under a rock, but if you think he is a troll, I do not know why respond to his posts.

Also, answers on problems are good for new members and watchers,
old hodlers, we, are more patient, and have believes in ANC.

Evan troll can make ANC stronger at the end, because he is not telling the truth..

Regards to all, and have a nice weekend!

 

[bamsterdam]

Okay troll, this is my first and last reply to you, since I'll be putting you on my ignore list.

[...]
3) It is silly for such a fuss about others stealing zerocoin from anc when anc took it, nearly complete, from others with no negotiation nor respect.
[...]

Negotiation was not possible, since the Zerocoin team at JHU ignored my attempts to reach out for months, and I have credited them in the past, and will also credit them in the Anoncoin app when Zerocoin is released. Furthermore, they obviously no longer have a stake in libzerocoin, as they started from scratch to design a new system that they believe is better. I disagree with that belief since there is apparently no way to generate the parameters in a trustless manner, so I am building on their original system.

Also, it is not a trivial matter to add RSA UFO support (which I have completed a couple days ago), and integrate it into a working crypto-currency (which I am now working on). This is why no other coins have added Zerocoin, AFAIK.

I dont know if you mean that I'm the troll here but then your wrong. I bought some anc a while ago and heard some guy on ltb say that there was this problem with the zerocoin protocol. This guy was apparently some well respected brilliant coder etc so I took that for granted since I don't have the capability to understand the whitepaper myself.

With the latest price movement I visited this tread again and then I saw this guy's question what I was wondering myself. Still not understand if there is a solution, but maybe that because of my lack of knowledge regarding the topic. RSA and UFO says me nothing.. could you explain? Just trying to understand it better to see if I should invest more  

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=RSA+UFO+Anoncoin

hahahahaah LOL. I must say you are right. Your post made me laugh out loud! I will look for myself, its just I have been so busy with work lately, havn't even had the time to check out btc talk until now. seems that I will have some time overall since price stabilized again.  

I just watched it a second time haha

[alacast]

Hello everyone, here is an infographics about anonymity in the blockchain that I intend to finish and publish on reddit on october 6, maybe sooner.
The text is coming from the anoncoin wiki, but the title and inter-titles are from me. There might be typos and bad grammer in them.
There will be a second part about IP addresses, and I2P.

Feel free to criticize, it's almost finished but still a draft. I'll work again on some of the visuals maybe, especially the "mixing coins" part wich I'm not too sure of, and maybe the colors are too flashy... I'll see that in the next days.
Leave your comments so that I can make changes if needed.

Also the last part about choosing/testing UFO may not be so accurate these days ? Tell me...

Here it is (imgur is not happy with Tor):

https://img.bi/#/fPHZrnA!0ZcYZivXHJp9Tbm9i298cuKJQb1qRO02ZYvPW933

[semidead]

What? New account? Good to see news though.

[TheKoziTwo]

Hello everyone, here is an infographics about anonymity in the blockchain that I intend to finish and publish on reddit on october 6, maybe sooner.
The text is coming from the anoncoin wiki, but the title and inter-titles are from me. There might be typos and bad grammer in them.
There will be a second part about IP addresses, and I2P.

Feel free to criticize, it's almost finished but still a draft. I'll work again on some of the visuals maybe, especially the "mixing coins" part wich I'm not too sure of, and maybe the colors are too flashy... I'll see that in the next days.
Leave your comments so that I can make changes if needed.

Also the last part about choosing/testing UFO may not be so accurate these days ? Tell me...

Here it is (imgur is not happy with Tor):

https://img.bi/#/fPHZrnA!0ZcYZivXHJp9Tbm9i298cuKJQb1qRO02ZYvPW933

Very good. I think you should add a better explaination of zerocoin and what it does, similar to how you explain mixing.

One example that I liked a lot:

In simplest terms: say you have 1 ANC whose history you want to erase. Using Zerocoin, you put that 1 ANC into a hat full of many other peoples’ 1 ANCs; at some later time, you can pull that 1 ANC out of the hat without its previous history (actually, you prove that you previously put in 1 ANC, and so you are allowed to pull out someone else’s 1 ANC). Someone who sees your new 1 ANC can only know that its previous history is one of perhaps millions of equally likely histories. If instead you had 12 ANC whose history you wanted to erase, you would have to put 10 ANC into the hat full of other peoples’ 10 ANC Zerocoins, and two 1 ANC coins into the hat full of other peoples’ 1 ANC coins. This means that Zerocoins are much more like actual coins than are Anoncoin, Bitcoin, etc. which are basically a collection of unnamed bank accounts.

[TheKoziTwo]

PS: who is deleting messages? This thread has lost about 8 pages the last few days...

[SmokingSkull]

PS: who is deleting messages? This thread has lost about 8 pages the last few days...

Now that you say it...

Good question. Maybe some guy who posting sheet in the past

Who reads about all the history anyway (seriously) ... it's good for archiving purposes and proof ... but that's it.

[TheKoziTwo]

PS: who is deleting messages? This thread has lost about 8 pages the last few days...

Now that you say it...

Good question. Maybe some guy who posting sheet in the past

Who reads about all the history anyway (seriously) ... it's good for archiving purposes and proof ... but that's it.

When I got into anoncoin I read every single page in this thread. It's a good idea to understand how the coin started out and developed when you were not around during that time (I got into ANC in 2014). Anyways, some of the deleted posts may be mirrored on https://bitcointa.lk/threads/official-anoncoin-chat-thread-including-history.135185/

[jotaceo]

Is Anoncoin working? It's been stalled since 2pm (gmt+2) and it's 0:07 am right now. Near 10 hours...

[matthewh3]

The quickest solution to stopping any Anoncoin network attacks would be to copy Dogecoin's hardfork to auxPoW with Litecoin.  While we've all seen how well Doge has done since that move.  Another hardfork to the three or five chain auxPoW myriad could be brought in a later date.  I'd personally vote on a three chain myriad of Scrypt plus Primes or Cryptonight and NeoScrypt.  Although a five chain myriad could be implemented by including both Primes and Cryptonight plus Lyra2 as well as Scrypt plus NeoScrypt.

[Simcom]

Whats the difference between zerocash and zerocoin? As far as im aware SDC is in the process of implementing zerocash into their anon system.

Zerocash is not yet fully developed - Miers and Green are not done with the code as far as I know, they wanted to release the Coin this time around, but who knows, nobody knows anything about it, so any Coin who says they implement Zerocash is basically ... lying.

Zerocoin will be implemented by the Anoncoin Devs, (with RSA UFOs, the original idea was without them), we dont know of any particular Coin with a real approach to implement it, at least nobody is doing the coding correctly (mostly they add the "ZC" branch to their source and that's it) Here in Anoncoin the Devs are really working on it (see source)

The technical differences between Zerocoin and Zerocash are in the wiki ... please read about it here https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Anoncoin_Wiki

Further proof that you know nothing about Zerocoin/cash. RSA UFO idea is from the original zerocoin whitepaper:
http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf

Ian Miers and his team abandoned Zerocoin to do an improved project called Zerocash.
Zerocash improves on an earlier protocol, Zerocoin, developed by some of the same authors, both in functionality (Zerocoin only hides a payment's origin, but not its destination or amount) and in efficiency (Zerocash transactions are less than 1KB and take less than 6ms to verify).

and they will do that in a REAL trustless manner:
In contrast to Bitcoin's transactions, payment transactions using the Zerocash protocol do not contain any public information about the payment's origin, destination, or amount; instead, the correctness of the transaction is demonstrated via the use of a zero-knowledge proof.

Source: http://zerocash-project.org/

If only they could generate the initial parameters in a trustless manner.  NOBODY who cares about privacy is going to use a coin created by academic researcher funded by the US Department of defense in a system where TRUST must be given to the devs to throw away the master key.  That is why zerocoin is superior.  Yes there will be bloat issues, Yes the transactions are slower. But at least we will have trustless anonymity with RSA UFOs used to generate the initial parameters. All of zerocash's advantages are for nothing if the gov't has a private key that unlocks all anonymity and enables unlimited minting of coins.

[CoinHoarder]

If only they could generate the initial parameters in a trustless manner.  NOBODY who cares about privacy is going to use a coin created by academic researcher funded by the US Department of defense in a system where TRUST must be given to the devs to throw away the master key.  That is why zerocoin is superior.  Yes there will be bloat issues, Yes the transactions are slower. But at least we will have trustless anonymity with RSA UFOs used to generate the initial parameters. All of zerocash's advantages are for nothing if the gov't has a private key that unlocks all anonymity and enables unlimited minting of coins.

Just to play Devils advocate...

I believe the trust issue has to do with unlimited minting of coins, and if someone were to have the initial parameters they will not be able to break the anonymity.. that is at least what Ian from the Zerocoin/Zerocash project stated on Twitter, so the bolded statement is wrong.

Also it seems that the Zerocash parameters can be generated in the same way you guys have implemented the tea ufo project by the use of multi party computations.

I also read that it is not a case of having to trust everyone involved in the creation of the initial parameters was honest, but you only need to trust that one of them was honest. If 20 people had a part in creating the initial parameters, then you would only need to trust that at least 1 out of those 20 people were honest.

These are almost direct quotes from Ian and Matthew from the ZeroCoin/Zerocash projects.

That being said, Zerocash/ZeroCoin has not been able to release a working product yet, so I think it is good projects like Anoncoin are implementing Zerocoin themselves. There is no way of knowing if Zerocash will come to fruition in a sufficiently trustless manner anyways.

[Simcom]

If only they could generate the initial parameters in a trustless manner.  NOBODY who cares about privacy is going to use a coin created by academic researcher funded by the US Department of defense in a system where TRUST must be given to the devs to throw away the master key.  That is why zerocoin is superior.  Yes there will be bloat issues, Yes the transactions are slower. But at least we will have trustless anonymity with RSA UFOs used to generate the initial parameters. All of zerocash's advantages are for nothing if the gov't has a private key that unlocks all anonymity and enables unlimited minting of coins.

Just to play Devils advocate...

I believe the trust issue has to do with unlimited minting of coins, and if someone were to have the initial parameters they will not be able to anonymity.. that is what Ian from the Zerocoin/Zerocash project stated on Twitter.

Also, it seems that the Zerocash parameters can be generated in the same way you guys have implemented the tea ufo project by the use of multi party computations.

I also read that it is not a case of having to trust everyone involved in the creation of the initial parameters was honest, but you only need to trust that one of them was honest. If 20 people had a part in creating the initial parameters, then you would only need to trust that at least 1 out of those 20 people were honest.

These are almost direct quotes from Ian and Matthew from the ZeroCoin/Zerocash projects.

Yes, that is my understanding exactly, except I have read over and over that it is only possible to generate trustless parameters with zerocoin, not zerocash.  Do you have a source that states it is possible with zerocash?

From the zerocash FAQ:

Can one put a backdoor in Zerocash?

Zerocash requires a trusted entity to conduct a one-time setup of the parameters of the system. During the setup procedure, secret random bits are drawn and used to compute the public parameters; the random bits are then destroyed, and the parameters are broadcast. If done correctly, then no secrets or backdoors remain.

If this setup procedure were to be corrupted, the system would continue to provide anonymity guarantees, but it would be possible to "forge" coins. As long as this setup procedure is conducted honestly, it is not possible to corrupt the public parameters of the system.

A different question is the possibility of bugs in the code. Such bugs need to be found and resolved via extensive review and testing, as in any other software project. To facilitate this, Zerocash will be released as open-source software.

[CoinHoarder]

Yes, that is my understanding exactly, except I have read over and over that it is only possible to generate trustless parameters with zerocoin, not zerocash.  Do you have a source that states it is possible with zerocash?

I am just going off of what they have stated on Twitter. Along with the following statements, they have mentioned the ability to generate the parameters by using multi party computations.. which is basically what the rsa ufo project is doing with ZeroCoin. If you look through their statements on Twitter it doesn't sound much different than they way Anoncoin is computing the ZeroCoin accumulator.

Re: Trust required for Zerocash setup





Maybe I am naive, but I think they will find a way to setup Zerocash that people will be able to trust.

[Simcom]

Yes, that is my understanding exactly, except I have read over and over that it is only possible to generate trustless parameters with zerocoin, not zerocash.  Do you have a source that states it is possible with zerocash?

I am just going off of what they have stated on Twitter. Along with the following statements, they have mentioned the ability to generate the parameters by using multi party computations.. which is basically what the rsa ufo project is doing with ZeroCoin. If you look through their statements on Twitter it doesn't sound much different than they way Anoncoin is computing the ZeroCoin accumulator.

Re: Trust required for Zerocash setup





Maybe I am naive, but I think they will find a way to setup Zerocash that people will be able to trust.

Well that is interesting, But I think unless they are able to pool hundreds of people to publicly generate the parameters in a trustless manner I kind of doubt the darknetmarket people will use zerocash over zerocoin.  I'm willing to bet money they would trust meeh over matt green et al.

[CoinHoarder]

I think the problem is we are all here discussing something we don't truly understand and never really will be able to understand on a technical level. Seeing as though the ZeroCoin/Zerocash guys aren't really interested in communicating with the cryptocurrency community, there is bound to be misconceptions and misinformation that arises. I take everything everyone says on this stuff with a grain of salt and tend to believe the original people working on the ZeroCoin/Zerocash projects over others. I have asked one of them their opinion on Anoncoin but he didn't answer, so I am on the fence about Anoncoin's implementation of ZeroCoin and the RSA UFO project.. as I don't fully understand both and the ZeroCoin/Zerocash developers haven't commented on it.

I did see Ian Miers' speech at the Bitcoin 2013 conference in person, he struck me as someone that really cares about financial privacy for the betterment of society, and someone that is unlikely to be a shill for the government. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A7rnE9nqhic

Again, maybe I am naive but if he feels Zerocash is a better solution then who am I to argue with his expertise?

With all that being said. I see Anoncoin's implementation of ZeroCoin, if successful, as being the most anonymous cryptocurrency that exists today. Who knows if Zerocash will ever come to be in a sufficiently trust less manner, and I think this "experiment" (which is how I look at it) is very important and needed.