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Author Topic: Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history)  (Read 530463 times)
AnonCoinTwitter
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October 12, 2014, 12:49:51 AM
 #3321

https://twitter.com/AnoncoinTeam/status/521099890303045632

Breaking news: ANC has been added to Bittrex
https://www.bittrex.com/Market/?MarketName=BTC-ANC

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October 12, 2014, 12:52:30 AM
 #3322


Awesome!
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October 12, 2014, 12:54:31 AM
 #3323


Lets retweet this to get the word out:)

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October 12, 2014, 02:28:06 AM
 #3324

hi, please help. My wallet sync is stuck at 6 weeks, no more connections. Anoncoin version v0.8.5.1-88-g87bdacc-beta
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October 12, 2014, 02:36:07 AM
 #3325

Yay we cracked the 4k difficulty block, now we are only stuck on a meager 2k block!  Grin
http://ancblockchain.com/chain/Anoncoin

Ah, I see. Cool.

Yes, I had another look - it does always start running again, sure. And then left-over transactions do get processed.
The coin is really fully functional - just "stuttering". It is suddenly very fast, and then in a regular rhythm very very slow. (Still - much faster than a standard fiat bank - they need not hours but days for a tx Smiley )
The blockchain doesn't even get much bloated probably - because the slow blocks recreate the average of "3:42 minute block targets" ( = 420 blocks per day) ? Another non-existing problem, good.



Still, I was getting more and more fascinated. Irregularities are more interesting than smooth boredom :-)  All this is purely empirical, I haven't taken the time to look into the KGW code yet. I just did some preliminary data analysis - What else could I find out?  -->

The difficulty adjustment algo seems to have a strange pathology that it very suddenly increases the difficulty by a huge factor, from one block to the next one. (for an example, have a look at blocks 252656 and 252657 here http://abe.darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/Anoncoin?count=12&hi=252662). And it is such a strong jump that when the miners are leaving (and every clever miner should leave when there is suddenly a difficulty a hundred times higher) ... then it suddenly takes many hours, even half a day, for the next blocks.   That slowness brings the average block time back on track. And 2 or 3 blocks later, it's running fast like mad again. Rinse repeat.

As the programmers very very probably did not intend it to be like that  Grin it looks to me as if the difficulty adjustment algo is getting gamed somehow. Different from, but comparable to an instamine. It happens regularly.

I call those 2-3 blocks 'difficulty-walls' for now - they can be higher than 6000, while the bottom in between can be as low as difficulty 25.

Right now we are on block 253261, the last 'difficulty-wall' was at 253140, the ones before at 253019, and 252898, and  252777, and 252657, before that at block  252534 ... - so the distances are 121, 121, 121, 121 blocks, 120 blocks, 123 blocks, etc ...  http://abe.darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/Anoncoin?count=1000  

Then the two or three SLOW blocks take 2 - 8 hours, usually.
The total time for the ~120 FAST blocks between two such difficulty walls has been 6 - 33 minutes.
That's the time in which 600 ANC can be mined in one go - with little effort.  One block every 3-16 seconds, worth 5 ANC.


Interesting phenomena. And still 20 full days time until November ... make me think now:  Why leave all that wealth flow into the pockets of that perhaps only one guy?   He would get 5 * (1440/3.42) * 119/122 ~ 2000 ANC per day, which -dumped at the current price- could mean almost 50000 dollars until then. Not much compared to the market cap of a million dollars, actually. (Perhaps that is the reason that this is not even perceived as a huge problem here? - which I found really odd when I encountered this first.)

Still, is there anything that could be done about it?   First I thought: What if I rent a few rigs now, in order to catch some of that seemingly-easy-to-harvest wealth ... BUT I need to be there in those few minutes, when all those ~120 blocks are generated, at ridiculously low diff. And then as soon as there is a difficulty-wall, while those 1-3 blocks with a 20 - 150 higher difficulty are mined (which takes 2 - 10 hours, seemingly) ... I have to stay away, and simply mine something else.  Where can I find such an algorithm?  Do I really need a special sgminer variant?  Or can I just use cgwatcher to switch?  But if I rent rigs, I could not use cgwatcher, only choose the pool - so do you know WHICH pool provides such cleverness? ... BUT then of course, the categorical imperative of Immanuel Kant comes to mind ... What would happen if more people used such an algorithm now?    

... very probably those difficulty walls would become even higher, right?  -->

I decided to have a longer look at the time series.  The peaks already seem to get higher indeed! The first plot shows the past 10000 blocks.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/drakoin/diagrams/master/anc10000blocks.png

19/09/2014 00:41 - 10/10/2014 19:31 = 21.78 days
--> 3:08 minutes per block on average, that's pretty close to the targeted 3:42 minutes.

Actually: When did the raping appear first?  I only looked at the past few thousand blocks.  

Conjecture: The recent (re)appearance simply comes from the price surge. While the price was below approx 0.002 BTC/ANC, the problem always went away again - probably other coins were simply more profitable for that clever rapist (Isn't there a more neutral term?  Essentially he is simply harvesting money ... in a way that the source code of this coin allows.).  But then on October 6h, everyone went nuts about ANC https://cryptrader.com/charts/cryptsy/anc/btc and since October 7th, the stuttering hasn't stopped anymore.


The second plot zooms into the recent past, the last 11 difficulty-walls, within the last 1212 blocks.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/drakoin/diagrams/master/anc1212blocks.png

08/10/2014 15:01 - 10/10/2014 19:31 = 2.19 days
--> 2:36 minutes average block time, only 30% too fast. Not a big deal.



N.B.: The x-axis is not proportional to date, but to block number - you can easily see the regular 121 block frequency. While ANC is getting raped, it is 'breathing' with a base frequency of about 10 / ( 2.19 * 24*60*60) = 0.00005 Hertz, and with very fast breath of about 0.3 Hz during those 119 highly profitable blocks. What a stuttering.  Here are examples for the 119 fast blocks:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/drakoin/diagrams/master/anc_fast-blocks.png




At least no one is getting any coins into exchanges to dump!!
The bright side of very high diff raping situation, lol...
Well I was wrong about that I guess, those dumps are insane.
Yes, because the leftover 7 - 47 transactions are then simply processed in the fast phases.


Speculation: The dumps might actually also happen exactly in those intervals?  You can check the times of the dumps yourself, I wouldn't be surprised if they always happen shortly after a fast blocks phase. There have been precicsely 4 dumps in the time span where there were 4 low-diff runs with 600 ANC each. But hey - that is speculation.


Welcome to Anoncoin!

Thanks a lot.

And thank you strange coin, for these pleasurable nerdy hours, analyzing your unique heartbeat ...

 Cool
Send me
BTC 1NceECxBgg5E7si8gJwinuBcBhpZTn5889 or
[ANC] Aa96FUJyZXXZN2AhPtGbbAUsM7Nsxd1xhU
If this analysis helps you to make money (or avoid
to loose money) - or if you simply enjoyed this,
then send me some coins please. Thanks.  Wink


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October 12, 2014, 04:05:51 AM
 #3326




lol how much are they paying you? Your 3rd trolling account in as many weeks. someone is desperately trying to shake out weak hands.
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October 12, 2014, 04:11:52 AM
 #3327


troll post deleted

lol how much are they paying you? Your 3rd trolling account in as many weeks. someone is desperately trying to shake out weak hands.

Hardfork to fix mining difficulty is imminent and Zerocoin beta is days away.

We are now traded on Bittrex.  Soon the world will notice our Zero Knowledge anonymous transactions and widespread adoption will begin.

I no longer fear trolls. They are too late.

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October 12, 2014, 05:00:22 AM
 #3328

This was a good review of the problem - thanks for compiling this.  Looks like if the transaction size is too big it will fail to confirm regardless of the the fee included. Can we get a dev response?  Are you guys trying to identify this bug?  The doesn't seem like it should be a very difficult thing to fix, probably just a couple lines of code.
I posted that they shouldnt change fee settings and/or also shouldnt patch the client o allow such huge txs (txs are limited to 100KB normaly).
Nothing from our side to be done  as there is nothing to fix. If someone dosnt want to play according to the rules, they shouldnt wonder why things break. Thats the beauty of a decentralized system.

mullick says they don't patch anoncoind. Maybe they are doing some exotic combination of RPC commands (sendrawtransaction...)? I still think there's a way to create txs bigger than 100KB with an un-patched anoncoind, just not an easy way.

I will PM mullick now to ask what RPC commands are being performed.

ANC:AU4hFCFZLhB2gTyG4VbaEurXGrTMNW2nu6 | BTC: 14QnfqVG3CqLGBYHgD8tPYJVLxQ2AfvPEx | GPG: E6D0 96DE 5B3E 16C7 C57F  DC3B 654D BB7A D847 993A
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October 12, 2014, 08:37:43 AM
 #3329

Greetings.  So I've been trying to figure out what exactly zerocoin is etc and since you guys seem to be the only ones actually doing anything with it, I'm hoping you can answer my questions about it.

1. The first question is about this statement "Using 8 cores on a 2.4GHz Core i7, Zerocoin spend transactions would take about 3 seconds to generate, and about 0.5 s to verify."  What sort of time frames would that be for more a "mainsteam" system like maybe an I3.  Or, and this wasn't clear to me from the various things I was reading, are those transactions actually done by the miners and so it doesn't actually apply to regular users?

2. Is zerocoin basically just a "mixer"? i.e. you can't actually do transactions with other people with them? The zerocoin site is somewhat confusing as it talks about both zerocoin and zerocash but everytime it talks about transactions, it references zerocash.  In addition, the zerocoin whitepaper's example is of a person minting and then collecting their own coins.

3. Is there a record on the blockchain of how many coins an address minted or collected?  It would seem to me that one way or another, there would be a balance reflected on the blockchain that others could see.  So let's say I wasn't all that bright and I minted 133t coins from one wallet address and collected l337 coins on another.  In this case it wouldn't be all that hard to "track" what I was doing correct?

BTC: 1F8yJqgjeFyX1SX6KJmqYtHiHXJA89ENNT
LTC: LYAEPQeDDM7Y4jbUH2AwhBmkzThAGecNBV
DOGE: DSUsCCdt98PcNgUkFHLDFdQXmPrQBEqXu9
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October 12, 2014, 09:04:50 AM
 #3330

Greetings.  So I've been trying to figure out what exactly zerocoin is etc and since you guys seem to be the only ones actually doing anything with it, I'm hoping you can answer my questions about it.

1. The first question is about this statement "Using 8 cores on a 2.4GHz Core i7, Zerocoin spend transactions would take about 3 seconds to generate, and about 0.5 s to verify."  What sort of time frames would that be for more a "mainsteam" system like maybe an I3.  Or, and this wasn't clear to me from the various things I was reading, are those transactions actually done by the miners and so it doesn't actually apply to regular users?

2. Is zerocoin basically just a "mixer"? i.e. you can't actually do transactions with other people with them? The zerocoin site is somewhat confusing as it talks about both zerocoin and zerocash but everytime it talks about transactions, it references zerocash.  In addition, the zerocoin whitepaper's example is of a person minting and then collecting their own coins.

3. Is there a record on the blockchain of how many coins an address minted or collected?  It would seem to me that one way or another, there would be a balance reflected on the blockchain that others could see.  So let's say I wasn't all that bright and I minted 133t coins from one wallet address and collected l337 coins on another.  In this case it wouldn't be all that hard to "track" what I was doing correct?

Here are some partial answers:

1. Not sure, but lets say that on an old system the times are 10 times slower: half a minute seems like a small price to pay for anonymity.

2. Zerocoin is in effect a mixing pool. However, the mixing pool contains everyone who ever bought a zerocoin. The size of this mixing pool will be many orders of magnitude larger than those used with other coins.

3. You are right about this example. I suspect that the wallet will have a check to make sure that the user doesn't do something stupid like that. Another potential problem is a timing analysis. If you buy some zerocoins, and then immediately redeem only a portion of them, this might look suspicious in the block chain. As far as i know, these are the only flaws with the zerocoin model: timing analysis, and minting/spending the exact same amount.
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October 12, 2014, 09:07:09 AM
 #3331

This was a good review of the problem - thanks for compiling this.  Looks like if the transaction size is too big it will fail to confirm regardless of the the fee included. Can we get a dev response?  Are you guys trying to identify this bug?  The doesn't seem like it should be a very difficult thing to fix, probably just a couple lines of code.
I posted that they shouldnt change fee settings and/or also shouldnt patch the client o allow such huge txs (txs are limited to 100KB normaly).
Nothing from our side to be done  as there is nothing to fix. If someone dosnt want to play according to the rules, they shouldnt wonder why things break. Thats the beauty of a decentralized system.

mullick says they don't patch anoncoind. Maybe they are doing some exotic combination of RPC commands (sendrawtransaction...)? I still think there's a way to create txs bigger than 100KB with an un-patched anoncoind, just not an easy way.

I will PM mullick now to ask what RPC commands are being performed.
Yes, with sendrawtransaction you obviously can create larger txs as you create the tx yourself.

[GPG Public Key]
BTC/DVC/TRC/FRC: 1K1773RbXRZVRQSSXe9N6N2MUFERvrdu6y ANC/XPM AK1773RTmRKtvbKBCrUu95UQg5iegrqyeA NMC: NK1773Rzv8b4ugmCgX789PbjewA9fL9Dy1 LTC: LKi773RBuPepQH8E6Zb1ponoCvgbU7hHmd EMC: EK1773RxUes1HX1YAGMZ1xVYBBRUCqfDoF BQC: bK1773R1APJz4yTgRkmdKQhjhiMyQpJgfN
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October 12, 2014, 09:58:01 AM
 #3332

Just noticed that the info about ANC being traded on Bittrex has still not been updated on the OP !
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October 12, 2014, 12:09:11 PM
 #3333

Anoncoin is stop on 254084 block. Why?

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October 12, 2014, 12:27:53 PM
 #3334

254087   2014-10-12 12:21:38   1   5 ANC   622.495
254086   2014-10-12 12:21:30   1   5 ANC   614.988
254085   2014-10-12 12:21:16   23   585.3189575 ANC   1164.969
254084   2014-10-12 09:58:43   1   5 ANC   1160.666

It`s not good. Sad

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October 12, 2014, 01:14:33 PM
 #3335

Anoncoin is stop on 254084 block. Why?

Problems with the KGW difficulty adjustments and multipools hopping on and off.  There should be a hardfork to fix it very soon maybe within twenty-four hours.

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October 12, 2014, 01:51:30 PM
 #3336

The whole past month has been so frustrating mining wise..... Is there no way to get rid of the hopping pools?Huh?
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October 12, 2014, 02:12:17 PM
 #3337

The whole past month has been so frustrating mining wise..... Is there no way to get rid of the hopping pools?Huh?

The hardfork to auxPoW will help a lot as will the myriad hardfork to five auxPoW chains.  Then each chain will only find 20% of the blocks.  While by going auxPoW each chain should have a much higher and steadier hashrate.  It should also enable CPU and GPU mining so lots more people can mine ANC.  Rather than as it is currently where you need a Scrypt ASIC to mine well.

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October 12, 2014, 02:57:59 PM
 #3338

Anoncoin is stop on 254084 block. Why?

Problems with the KGW difficulty adjustments and multipools hopping on and off.  There should be a hardfork to fix it very soon maybe within twenty-four hours.

http://cdn4.image.youporn.phncdn.com/201104/16/560653/original/13.jpg?m=eaCaaBaa&mh=Iu-YXhRXV0HmGcry
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October 12, 2014, 05:20:26 PM
Last edit: October 12, 2014, 06:52:26 PM by AnonCoinTwitter
 #3339

Zerocoin beta is just days away

The world of cryptocurrency is about to change!




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October 12, 2014, 07:39:10 PM
 #3340

There are two sides arguing about anoncoin.

One side are true believers in anc and zerocoin.

The other side are skeptics of zerocoin.

Here is the bottom line. Anc is a good coin with a stable development history and devs who are willing to adapt. But zerocoin is almost certainly a scam of some sort, a terminally flawed algorithm.

Anc, on its devs and history alone is cheap right now. Zerocoin is irrelevant. Once zerocoin is rolled out, if it is ever rolled out, its flaws will be discussed and it will be dismissed in favor of something else. Anc is a good coin long term.
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