Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[iCEBREAKER]

I'll be updating Avalon's Scam Accusation thread with the shocking new information revealed in this thread.

Thanks to the OPs.

AVALON Scam Accusation thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258829.0

[dddbtc]

I don't believe they will shipped out all the Avalon Chips end of  next week. Anyone dare to bet they will shipped out All of the chips end of next week?? by and before August 18th 2013??

They'll probably leave manufacturer at the end of next week and then end up in customs for awhile.

So YES figuratively but NO literally

I bought hundreds of gigahash worth of avalon chips.  If they conform to approximately to the most recent time-frame statements, I would not be too dissatisfied TBH.

We don't need to stir the pot.  Boycotts are one thing and perfectly okay, but if we sue Bitsyn our BTC will pay for his lawyers for a long drawn out trial. I'll bet all my bitcoins that lawsuit = terribly delayed chips

KEEP CALM
AND
CARRY ON

People will buy your preorder slots at more than what you paid at the moment. If you are dissatisfied, sell your chip orders.

[gripflierGO]

dw yifu, i think you get no more pdfs in mail and no more visits
if you only keep the promises, there should be no problems in future

I agree, slight delays happens in real world, its inevitable.

[Anenome5]

Some of you seem quite angry... here's a meme for you



/thread

[g83]

The less the others buy - the more we can :-)

[Unacceptable]

The less the others buy - the more we can :-)

Not if thier website never works........hint hint 

[Stack]

I already decided that if my BFL unit ever actually showed up(don't worry im still pushing for my refund...but u know how it is...), it has no place in my home.. it would only be a constant reminder of their evil.. and sadly these chips are going the same way.. which is a shame because the board designers have done an awesome job of them, so I hope it doesn't end up in the same bucket.

[young3dvard]

It's because people's greed overrides common sense, in other industries you wouldn't do pre-payments  for months or year in advance! The sellers have preying on the fear of increasing difficulty to drown out logical thinking.

Not a greed, people too much believe in delivery time claims.

[Vigil]

Libertarians aren't anarchists. Free market proponents uphold contract law.

anarchists also uphold contract law. The difference is in the way they each choose to do so. Libertarians choose a limited government, whereas anarchists believe in the use of the market to develop ways to solve contract disputes or the individual can do it.


"Yifu is a four letter word."

[Begru]

http://thegenesisblock.com/56-4-ths-of-avalon-bitcoin-mining-asics-held-up-in-customs-225-ths-arriving-in-a-few-weeks/#comment-7666

[Bicknellski]

http://thegenesisblock.com/56-4-ths-of-avalon-bitcoin-mining-asics-held-up-in-customs-225-ths-arriving-in-a-few-weeks/#comment-7666

BOYCOTT CALL.

Just the Facts

Many of the community have invested in these chips at a time when AVALON had elevated themselves into arguably the top slot for BTC mining equipment. So far they have delivered 1 batch of chips to their "western" customer base and they were some 4 weeks overdue.

Their "No Bullshit" terms of sale have not been followed; sample/developer chips provided 4 weeks after payment of order didnt happen. Shipping of chips 9-10 weeks after payment didnt happen. They are clearly in violation of their own terms of sale and therefore must offer a full refund to those purchasers requesting such.


Whatever you have been told, their statement "No refunds" does not waive our statutory rights as consumers. I am a large shareholder in a group buy who have already requested a refund and have not received any reply. This is simply not acceptable from a company who has taken $millions of our money. Our group has realised that this 6+ week in delay and counting has effectively made the chips worthless to us.


If the majority of shareholders in group buys decide that they will be wasting more money for fabrication costs and having no chance of seeing a ROI, then perhaps, its time to demand a full REFUND from BitSyncom,  after all there are other companies which can likely deliver sooner and represent a more favourable investment.


I would urge all batch leaders to poll your group buy members and find out what THEY want, if a large number of group buy leaders request a refund, there will have to start addressing the issue. BitSyncom need to understand that they need to open up channels of communication and address this serious issue which affects hundreds if not thousands of consumers.


If this situation continues for much longer, the chips will not be worth their initial cost + development cost.

If you have any information about BitSyncom, full personal details,addresses (for legal communication), telephone numbers and e-mail addresses, Links to their personal media pages, personal future appointments at events (dates and locations), any info which will help to make contact, please post it on this thread.

[PuertoLibre]

I recommend that you open a new thread for this specifically.

Just keep in mind, if you poll for a refund, you are going to be bringing pressure on your own self as the intermediary. I hope you and the other group buy hosts are fully aware of this as playing with fire can get your own ass burned.

If those who are affected are told to "go to Yifu" to deal with the problem, it will be only a momentary distraction/deflection. You yourself are the host of a group buy which means it's also your own problem to hash out. (pun intended)

------------------

So tread with care because you are looking for trouble if you expect customers to side with you (and not against you) on recovery of funds. They will do whatever they have to, to get their money back. Do not be surprised if the group buy hosts become the primary target of such refund requests.

-----------------

Which begs the question, are you (the group buy hosts) going to stick around through thick and thin or will you pull a "Yifu" of your own when shit-hits-the-fan?

You should discuss with your own escrow agent (probably John) a game plan for the release of your own private details. Made available upon request for anyone looking for a legal settlement.

[PuertoLibre]

Just keep in mind that when things break down, the poll you insist on having, can become a double edged sword which cuts both ways.

(I like all of you group buy hosts and if you know the least of human nature this will obviously turn out badly for everyone involved.)

[fractal02]

Just keep in mind that when things break down, the poll you insist on having, can become a double edged sword which cuts both ways.

(I like all of you group buy hosts and if you know the least of human nature this will obviously turn out badly for everyone involved.)

PuertoLibre = Master Avalon shill.

What BitSyncom is doing is also, or even worse than BFL...

PuertoLibre, please, put your very smart BFL threat advice to BitSyncom now...cause we have a new (scam) Champ' here

[Flying Hellfish]

Just keep in mind that when things break down, the poll you insist on having, can become a double edged sword which cuts both ways.

(I like all of you group buy hosts and if you know the least of human nature this will obviously turn out badly for everyone involved.)

PuertoLibre = Master Avalon shill.

What BitSyncom is doing is also, or even worse than BFL...

PuertoLibre, please, put your very smart BFL threat advice to BitSyncom now...cause we have a new (scam) Champ' here

PL = ASIC horse race winner (made the right choice backing Avalon B1) has likely made thousands of dollars from his initial $1300 USD investment and at one point (maybe not currently I don't really know) appeared to be, unsurprisingly a Yifu fanbois.

I'm stone cold guessing here but he could be sitting on a nice little stash of BTC quietly waiting for Avalon Gen2 devices and cheap resale ASICS.

Not sure you will see the passionate disdain for Avalon he openly showed for BFL, just saying.

[PuertoLibre]

Just keep in mind that when things break down, the poll you insist on having, can become a double edged sword which cuts both ways.

(I like all of you group buy hosts and if you know the least of human nature this will obviously turn out badly for everyone involved.)

PuertoLibre = Master Avalon shill.

What BitSyncom is doing is also, or even worse than BFL...

PuertoLibre, please, put your very smart BFL threat advice to BitSyncom now...cause we have a new (scam) Champ' here

@ fractal

You probably think I am an actual shill. I am not stopping anyone from pursuing what they think is the best course of action. But you can't blame me for pointing out the obvious.

My best advice to Yifu is to do exactly what BFL never really does. Open up to your customers and rather than try to reason with them about this screw up, just tell them what exactly comes next. Avoiding it will not resolve anything.

-------------------------

Fractal, if you really think no one is even thinking about going after the group buy hosts with legal recourse, you really don't live in reality.

It is super obvious. When things go to hell the first person to typically run is the one with the most responsibility. If they are publicly portraying that Yifu is fooked, what does that say about themselves in this picture?

Most group buy hosts made alot of money from actually being the host. About 1 BTC per every hundred chips. (some made even more)

Do they really think that somehow they are going to deflect the crap off themselves and unto Yifu for very long by agitating the crowd into a final decision?

----------------------------

In case you aren't aware, some of the Group Buy Hosts are the most talented in DIY hardware talent. If they go under then what does that mean for future open source hardware?

Some of you can't think beyond the tip of your own nose, apparently.

The consequences of that course of action is pretty obvious.

(Master BFL Shill/Master Avalon Shill)

[erk]

Just keep in mind that when things break down, the poll you insist on having, can become a double edged sword which cuts both ways.

(I like all of you group buy hosts and if you know the least of human nature this will obviously turn out badly for everyone involved.)

PuertoLibre = Master Avalon shill.

What BitSyncom is doing is also, or even worse than BFL...

PuertoLibre, please, put your very smart BFL threat advice to BitSyncom now...cause we have a new (scam) Champ' here

Certainly from a $ dollars point of view it is.

[Bicknellski]

Group buys leaders should take the lead. Poll their buyers and then be forceful with Avalon on what they want.

REFUND
DELIVERY
COMPENSATION

etc.

I'd advocate refund and boycotts until Avalon makes the following clear to group buy leaders.


1. Chips are located where?
2. Chips are going to be shipped definitively when?
3. Refunds offered to those asking.
4. Boycotts continue until we all have been compensated
5. Legal action is started now as a safety net should Avalon fail to provide resolutions 1 to 4.

Anything less and Avalon will simply avoid the consequences and likely move on to Gen2 production without any response.

[PuertoLibre]

Just keep in mind that when things break down, the poll you insist on having, can become a double edged sword which cuts both ways.

(I like all of you group buy hosts and if you know the least of human nature this will obviously turn out badly for everyone involved.)

PuertoLibre = Master Avalon shill.

What BitSyncom is doing is also, or even worse than BFL...

PuertoLibre, please, put your very smart BFL threat advice to BitSyncom now...cause we have a new (scam) Champ' here

PL = ASIC horse race winner (made the right choice backing Avalon B1) has likely made thousands of dollars from his initial $1300 USD investment and at one point (maybe not currently I don't really know) appeared to be, unsurprisingly a Yifu fanbois.

I'm stone cold guessing here but he could be sitting on a nice little stash of BTC quietly waiting for Avalon Gen2 devices and cheap resale ASICS.

Not sure you will see the passionate disdain for Avalon he openly showed for BFL, just saying.

Thats all pretty true. (except the fanboi part)

It's not like I have ever hidden that. Just keep in mind I have also pointed out my reasons why I don't go with the herd.

If Avalon does crap, I am going to point it out.

Personally, I don't know the full story or even what Yifu is intending to do. I do not know why he has gone incommunicado. Either way, I am pretty sure he is watching every now and then what the latest developments are.

If you all want to go down a specific path just keep in mind everyone will blow themselves apart in that game.

------------------

As for me, I am waiting to see what comes out of the new companies like KNC and Bitfury et al. I made a hell of a bet a long time ago, and won. I won't be gambling on the next.

I have assessed the situation and came to a conclusion. I didn't join the Chip Buyers in the herd mentality. I am simply still watching to see what develops.

Seeing the Group Buy hosts doing rather irrational things is pretty concerning. Especially if they think they are going to get a positive resolution out of finger pointing. If they start a problem that consumes their capacity to produce open source hardware, (or just plain clones) that would be concerning. (for the future)

I do my part by pointing it out. As I don't see this ending well. Perhaps in their own stress they aren't looking at things which will blowback unto themselves.

Either way, if you want to go after the Avalon Team or Yifu Gou, go ahead. Though my personal view is this is going to cause more trouble than it is worth. I'd personally wait and see what Yifu does next to extend support to the community during a time of crisis.

[jspielberg]

I think boycotts are only effective if they need customers.
I don't think that is the position that Bitsyn.com is in anymore.

I had a weird thought. 
What if Avalon's "big customer" was a mid to high level political operative who had the connections/ability to slow down customs once he received his shipments?