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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 139842 times)
thesavoyard
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February 19, 2018, 12:17:19 PM
 #3001

Forum is the pursuit of merits now. Will live strong and persistent. Natural selection.
Merit will not appreciate the quality. Merit should not be the basis of a new rank. Merit is the gratitude of users. Not everyone can get it in the right amount. The number of merits is too large to move to new ranks

How do you know so much about how the merit system of the forum is going to play out?  

You have been a member of the forum for about 1 month.  The merit system was implemented 1 week after you registered your account.

I suppose that if you do not like this new merit system, then you don't have to use it, right?  You have only one month invested into the forum, so far, right?

Says the guy who only had to hang out and post to increase his rank.


What's up your butt?  Look I am using nice language, here?  

Your coming into the conversation to get in your two cents, makes you come off as a bit bitter and envious, no?  

Do you think that I had anything to do with implementing the new merit system?  

Here, I am merely talking about it, and you can proclaim my bias.. blah blah blah.. but that likely reflects more on your bad attitude rather than anything to do with me.

Accordingly, the content of your posts suggest that you are unwilling or unable to understand or accept both concepts of system changes and the concept of employing a grandfathering clause type arrangement in order to attempt to fairly transition members from the existing system into the new system.  

If you were attempting to make another point, then I am all ears, but mostly what I got from you was a weak-ass diversion attempt at an ad hominem attack rather than attempting to deal with actual substantive matters related to the merit system.

I found the tone of your post to him to be snarky and dismissive. You ranked up under a completely different standard, yet you seem to take a knee jerk defense. The system is poorly thought out, take it as bitter if you want. Personally, I think these forums are kind of a negative on the community anyways. Too factional and loyal to outdated tech. Too many scammers and too much greed.Yet if you ask an advanced question, no one here has an answer. I think the merit system is the slow death of these forums, which is probably for the best in the long run. But it's still sad to see what Satoshi founded to become irrelevant.

But I like how you created a whole story in your head about how I'm bitter and evious because your tone is snarky...

How come someone determine someone tone from a text? i am curious about this matters.

Being hard on the community is not the same as being negative to community, rather than negative, merit forces us to level up ourself, and how come is that a negative things for the community. And being positive to a community doesnt mean a forum needs to hear and do what the community says. Merit will only give death to member which can not rank up (mostly because they dont want to level up their self cause they dont want the hard way to earn merits)

I know satoshi made bitcoin and also one of team that made this forum (cmiiw for the forum part), but it doesnt have connection between decentralized spirit of bitcoin with this centralized forum, You really got things mixed up

 I can understand why you can't determine tone from text, you can barely convey a coherent message. Your logic seems to be pretty incomplete. The only ones who will get merit are those who post popular, or more appropriately, patronizing posts. This board needs less BS and more logic, it's kind of a desert here.

 As most people aren't willing to patronize and ass kiss for merit (there isn't a ton available anyways) they will likely move on. Then it will just be the same circle jerk passing around merit. It's essentially created a closed community that is resistant to reality, like the BTC main forum.

If you can't determine tone from this than you need a better English teacher:
Quote
I suppose that if you do not like this new merit system, then you don't have to use it, right?  You have only one month invested into the forum, so far, right?

Wow, now i can read tone and i am 100% sure that your tone is coming from a whining and butthurt people who is pessimistic about the system that is implemented recently called merit.

Telling other people's logic incomplete but get mad to a people who doesnt like other cryptocurrency and got tilted by word "How much alt coin diversification is necessary? 0%" and rant randomly about people's avatar. How complete your logic is, very complete.

There are many people who got merits by now (except you i guess) because they accept it and try hard for it. If you are saying that people only gets merit because they are friends or ass-kissing, of course it will get me mad and other people mad, do you know how much effort i made to my post in this thread that i made :
1. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2947171.msg30272338#msg30272338
2. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2822349.msg28909933#msg28909933

Please stop throwing random tantrum without any valid data.

No thanks for the lesson tho.

And yet it's you two pathetic dipshits in this thread trolling all dissenting opinion. You contribute nothing of value, so it's best just to ignore you.

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esquire042
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February 19, 2018, 12:30:04 PM
 #3002

From what I just red it means I can't get MERIT except when someone share it to me right?
anakrea
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February 19, 2018, 12:39:02 PM
 #3003

From what I just red it means I can't get MERIT except when someone share it to me right?
Yes, the only way to get Merit is if some other user sends you some.

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
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esquire042
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February 19, 2018, 12:52:59 PM
 #3004

Huhuhu, I laugh in my native language, so what you guys want is for me to start reading and writing as if I am still in school just to earn some merit point. I would have been glad to do that but I still have a lot to read. In fact I need to hire someone that will held me read up my mails not to talk of social network messages.
If it take being an author to earn some bitcointalk merit point then I think I will let it go because I do not have such time.
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February 19, 2018, 01:16:49 PM
 #3005

Huhuhu, I laugh in my native language, so what you guys want is for me to start reading and writing as if I am still in school just to earn some merit point. I would have been glad to do that but I still have a lot to read. In fact I need to hire someone that will held me read up my mails not to talk of social network messages.
If it take being an author to earn some bitcointalk merit point then I think I will let it go because I do not have such time.

And truthfully, most likely noone will miss you here...

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kazakova
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February 19, 2018, 01:45:55 PM
 #3006

Huhuhu, I laugh in my native language, so what you guys want is for me to start reading and writing as if I am still in school just to earn some merit point. I would have been glad to do that but I still have a lot to read. In fact I need to hire someone that will held me read up my mails not to talk of social network messages.
If it take being an author to earn some bitcointalk merit point then I think I will let it go because I do not have such time.

Don't do this merit only. You need it for better communication but it really depends on if you deal with people worldwide.
yudiana
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February 19, 2018, 03:26:22 PM
 #3007

In addition to activity, everyone now has a merit score, and you need both a certain activity level and a certain merit score in order to reach higher member ranks. The required scores are:

RankRequired activityRequired merit
Brand new00
Newbie10
Jr Member300
Member6010
Full Member120100
Sr. Member240250
Hero Member480500
LegendaryRandom in the range 775-10301000

You get merit points when someone sends you some for one of your posts. Additionally, when someone sends you merit points, half of those points can be sent by you to other people.

Certain users are designated as "merit sources". They can create new merit out of nothing, up to a limited number per month (which differs per source). I will not be posting a definitive list of merit sources (so that people don't bug them too much), though you'll soon figure out who they are if you pay attention.

There is currently no such thing as a "demerit". I'm hoping that the positive merits alone will be fine. I could add demerits pretty easily later on if necessary, though.

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

Do not beg for merit excessively.

Useful infographics

Forum users have helpfully created some infographics to explain the merit system:
paxmao's infographic
ibminer's infographic
8Habits's infographic
JetSet11's infographic
zentdex's infographic
alia_armelle's infographic

If you want to be a merit source:

 1. Be a somewhat established member.
 2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months by other people that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread. The point of this is to demonstrate your ability to give out merit usefully.
 3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.

I am especially eager to have merit sources in sub-communities such as the local sections.

Trivia:

For current members, your initial merit score is equal to the minimum required to your rank. Of that, a certain amount (less than the usual half) is spendable. The spendable amount was calculated based on your current rank and the number of activity points you earned in the last year. A Legendary member who hasn't posted in the last year would still be Legendary, but would not have any spendable merit.

If someone sends you 1 merit, the 0.5 sMerit is not wasted; it is just not shown until you get another merit point.

There are stats here, and you can find someone's merit summary by clicking the "merit" link on their profile.


I appreciate this merit system because satiap good post the opportunity to get reward / uvpotes in the form of merit.
with the existence of such a system each member, especially new members will further improve the quality of their posts. because it's not just the activities that make them level.
in addition each post will be more appreciated with the existence of this system as long as no bots are playing there.
hopefully continue to grow
coinlocket$
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February 19, 2018, 03:59:32 PM
 #3008

sorry if this is already answered but you know we have 157 pages here, there is a way to know the overall unspent Merit here on forum? (maybe only for active member to get a more realisic number)

mohammadzayadi
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February 19, 2018, 04:13:07 PM
 #3009

So....I was ready to move up to member on Tuesday, now due to this i have to wait until i receive merit points..Garsh
Right now you are waiting for the happiness that is in sight. very unfortunate i still need 1 merit to go up member rankings  Grin

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mohammadzayadi
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February 19, 2018, 04:19:53 PM
 #3010

its really hard to get merit Sad what a system
Not too difficult if you always try to make a quality post  Wink

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athanz88
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February 19, 2018, 04:24:22 PM
Last edit: February 19, 2018, 05:10:47 PM by athanz88
 #3011

its really hard to get merit Sad what a system
Not too difficult if you always try to make a quality post  Wink

While your replied to the pst is cood and an encouragement, but it is considered a bad things to post 2 posts in a row, better look at the rules again fella before it is too late and you might regret it.
seven2smoke1
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February 19, 2018, 05:07:21 PM
 #3012

its really hard to get merit Sad what a system
Not too difficult if you always try to make a quality post  Wink

It is considered a bad things to post 2 posts in a row, better look at the rules again fella before it is too late and you might regret it.
True, he can just reply to the 2 posts in the same quote. These kind of activities likely is like spam. I see that he had already 9 merits and it's clear that he want to rank up by getting only 1. but things goes not like that, I mean by posting 2 posts in a row.
vominhtri1611
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February 19, 2018, 05:22:35 PM
 #3013

I wonder who the first one to 15 million merits will be  Wink

I like this change a lot Cheesy. Hopefully we'll see an increase in post quality  Cool

For sure, it won't be you.  No wonder you don't have any merits.   Your post is a waste of space.  Practice what you preach and make quality posts. 
I know who I am, I am Vietnamese, and I am still learning and improving my knowledge to post constructive posts, it's a process, Merit is to evaluate whether an article is useful or constructive, and to have a constructive post that requires a lot of knowledge, enthusiasm and experience. Not an easy one. And I'm posting this thread just for fun, and let everyone discuss and talk to each other. So do not be so serious, okay?
TryNinja
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February 19, 2018, 05:49:07 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #3014

My merit(s) are finished, i gave them all but i want to give more,
I am a quite new member and also new in the crypto world, I am learning a lot from the forum and i would to express "a thanks" to those that they help me with their posts and answers

Is my account going to get more, let's say in a month, like an upgrade or it's one life things?
No more at all ?
Read the thread... You get 1 sMerit for every 2 merits you receive.

Other than that, there is no other way to receive sMerit.

sorry if this is already answered but you know we have 157 pages here, there is a way to know the overall unspent Merit here on forum? (maybe only for active member to get a more realisic number)
Theymos said that he distributed about 600k sMerits across the forum. At the time I'm writing this post, 75724 merit has been sent in total across the forum[1]. Do the math and you will get an approximate number.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsendat

athanz88
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February 19, 2018, 05:56:37 PM
 #3015

I wonder who the first one to 15 million merits will be  Wink

I like this change a lot Cheesy. Hopefully we'll see an increase in post quality  Cool

For sure, it won't be you.  No wonder you don't have any merits.   Your post is a waste of space.  Practice what you preach and make quality posts.  
I know who I am, I am Vietnamese, and I am still learning and improving my knowledge to post constructive posts, it's a process, Merit is to evaluate whether an article is useful or constructive, and to have a constructive post that requires a lot of knowledge, enthusiasm and experience. Not an easy one. And I'm posting this thread just for fun, and let everyone discuss and talk to each other. So do not be so serious, okay?

Chill man, everyone is accepted in bitcointalk.org, especially people who has passion for bitcoin and cryptocurrency and willingly to do something good for the forum and for the member, i hope you are that kind of person.
Merits is not only for useful or constructive posts, we can give merit to the post that we like or we agree, becuase there will be subjective point of view based on the giver of merit, so lets just continue using forum and learn a lot, but dont put "getting merit" as your main reasons, just let it flow, merits will come later if you give your time and energy to contribute to the forum. Good luck mate !
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February 19, 2018, 06:07:33 PM
 #3016

[edited out]

And yet it's you two pathetic dipshits in this thread trolling all dissenting opinion. You contribute nothing of value, so it's best just to ignore you.

Ignoring might have served you well and saved you in the first place from getting your nosey little selfie involved in your made-up drama bullshit.  Roll Eyes   Tongue

Nothing wrong with providing contrarian views if you can attempt to stay on topic, make some kind of point and attempt to back up what you are saying.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
JayJuanGee
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February 19, 2018, 06:16:20 PM
Last edit: February 19, 2018, 06:28:17 PM by JayJuanGee
 #3017

sorry if this is already answered but you know we have 157 pages here, there is a way to know the overall unspent Merit here on forum? (maybe only for active member to get a more realisic number)


You can get your own unspent merit by attempting to spend a merit, but I believe that if the merit button is not available, then you have no available merit to spend.  

I believe that there is NOT a way, so far to see the unspent merit of other users; however, I believe that there had been some posts speculating on how many were available in total, and I believe Theymos did provide an overall number in one of his posts.

There are some other merit stats available, here which is also at the bottom of the merits page that is accessible on your personal profile page.

Edit: Whoops: I see that TryNinja beat me to it, and had largely already made a response with additional details, above.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
cjmoles
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February 19, 2018, 07:20:20 PM
 #3018

I think that I am already noticing a difference on the forum....And, I can see some use cases for how merits could be used to solicit contributions for quality research.  For example, if an sMerit contributor were to set up a thread offering merit for original content on a particular subject, then it would help focus the energy of the merit hunters in a constructive manner ---> I think we're really on to something brilliant with this merit system ---> of course, it will take some time to find it's equilibrium.  I have noticed, however, that some of the long time trust abusers are already trying to game the merit system and that sucks.
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February 19, 2018, 08:44:21 PM
 #3019

First, just to clear the air (if anyone will actually read this) I am biased because I don't feel I can personally rank up anymore. So, take this with a grain of salt.

My thoughts:

I know the merit is new, and I really like the concept because BitcoinTalk.org is a core part of the community and needs to be protected, but based on the evidence, I don't see this working as planned. Rather, it appears to be simply a caste system where the current ranked people have now just hard coded their levels and almost no one else will be ranking up from this point forward.

I don't have access to the actual data so I just have to go with my observations. But I would LOVE to see the ranking growth rates since the Merit system was implemented. Probably went from some rapidly growing rate to near zero. Was that the goal? To turn off leveling up? I bet that's what happened.

Here are my limited observations:

1) Merit does not appear to be moving from the haves to the have nots.

-This means we have a liquidity problem

2) Where Merit has moved, it appears to be too infrequent to work as intended, where better posters would be moving up in rank.

-Easy to confirm, just scan the latest threads you are reading and see how many people are still sitting at a round number of Merit (e.g., 10, 100, 250, etc). It's just about everyone. Again, I would love to see a % of accounts that now have anything other than a round number of Merit.

3) Where Merit has moved, it's very hard for the public to know why, who gave it, and for what posting, which leads me to believe, most of the movement has been from people who control several accounts. As a member of the blockchain community (ignore my 'creation account date' I've been in crypto since 2013) we are supposed to be about transparency and accountability.

-For those without a round number of Merit, they appear to have earned just 1 to 4 added points, and again, a scan of their recent posts do not yield anything more impressive than other people's posts (in my opinion). But the lack of transparency will lead to suspicion in this community, as it has done with me. That's just how we roll!

-I realize there is some public tracking going on, but it's not easy to find and therefore doesn't actually work as transparent (IMHO)

4) While BitcoinTalk is flooded with spammers and multiple accounts (and I completely agree that is a problem) under the new system, ranking up has become virtually impossible and will no longer reward activity. While spam is a problem, I believe a new problem will emerge, a lack of interest in posting on this site which will lead to degradation of utility.

-I've worked  in many settings where leaders considered cutting some requirement (like how under the old rules, simply posting got your rank on this site). They wanted to cut the requirement because it seemed extra, unhelpful. But I argued against cutting it because although it was not helpful directly for the intended purpose, removing it would very likely lead to a situation where performance would decline and then this seemingly unhelpful requirement would actually once again become useful. I know I'm leaving out detail here, but think of it like an ecosystem. Some would say "who cares if species XYZ goes extinct" until years later they realize that caused a chain reaction that killed off an entire jungle.

Problems and complaints, that's not very helpful. So how about a solution?

I prefer small changes, so what if Merit was no longer tied to ranking up, but the activity level requirements doubled or tripled. Or what if some small amount of Merit was required to level up. Like, people had to earn at least 1 Merit point before moving each rank level. AND, I would recommend you grant people more sMerit to solve the liquidity problem.

To summarize: the Merit change, appears to not be meeting the stated indented goals, and I would urge the leadership of this site to consider an alternative before significant damage is caused to a key institution of the crypt world...this site.


Even though I don't agree with your overall conclusions because I believe that you are a bit too premature to be coming to such strong assessments and conclusions about the lackings of the merit system, I did give you two merits for the post because 1) it seems that you put quite a decent amount of effort into the post, and just doing a quick glance at your posting history, I see that you have quite a few decent and well articulated posts.  

Furthermore, it is likely that you will be able to earn another 88 merits to rank up to full member as long as you continue to engage, post on topics that interest you, attempt to provide value by reading the OP and reading recent posts, attempt to keep some humor and even to help yourself to sort through the many questions that a lot of us continue to have in this dynamic space about crypto currencies (hopefully you are interested in bitcoin, but perhaps other cryptos as well)... and of course , there are other topics on this forum too that may be interesting to you and cause others to award you merit for your input and participation in such topics.

Thanks. I honestly didn't think anyone with Merit would care to encourage my posts. Another aspect of the problem. Merit's control is deeply centralized. But I would be ok with that if they amount of Merit required was not so incredibly high.

But I don't think I'm on here enough to earn enough to rank up and I do think the data would support my conclusion that the Merit system was too much of a swing in the other direction. I'm actually concerned this change could cripple what is a very important part of the crypto ecosystem. I've been in and out of crypto for years. Lost access to my original profile because, like I said, I'm not on here much. Coming back in I've found this place has changed. It used to be my go-to to ask for and get great answers. I think it's still the best source for interactive answers. I also like this is THE place to launch an ICO bounty. And odd development to me, but I like it. That will forever codify its place in the system.

There certainly are way too many new spammer accounts that don't do much for the discussions. But I don't have access to enough data to know if they are really spammers or just newbies. I'm guessing a mix.

Realize that newbies should be welcomed here. If you want crypt to grow, and we all do, we need to make it so new people feel comfortable, not excluded.

And thanks again for the Merit, especially since you disagree   Smiley

Think of it like FB. They probably want to censor posts because they have their own worldview. But it's counter to their mission and would cripple users activity and then what happens? FB stops being useful to very many people (cough 'MySpace').
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February 19, 2018, 09:58:17 PM
 #3020

I think that I am already noticing a difference on the forum....And, I can see some use cases for how merits could be used to solicit contributions for quality research.  For example, if an sMerit contributor were to set up a thread offering merit for original content on a particular subject, then it would help focus the energy of the merit hunters in a constructive manner ---> I think we're really on to something brilliant with this merit system ---> of course, it will take some time to find it's equilibrium.  I have noticed, however, that some of the long time trust abusers are already trying to game the merit system and that sucks.


There are already a lot of threads that attempt variations on smerit give aways, and maybe more will spring up, because it is appears that members receive some merits just for creating an organized thread in that direction, especially if they might have some interesting or innovative approach or way to target their merit spending.

Here's  a list of some of the merit give away threads, and I think that there are other merit give away threads that are not listed in that thread.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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