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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 159756 times)
TheQuin
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March 10, 2018, 07:37:06 AM
 #3501


Again you focus on 'quality', forget that and start talking to people about issues related to Bitcoin, that's what the forum is for.


These are the false equivalences that are of concern. You switch from a quality focus to focusing on "talking to people about issues related to Bitcoin", and make it appear as that would be the relevant measure for gaining merits. And once again, whereas the intention of this might be the right one, it is not what data shows how it really works.

What data? Can you point me to a statistical analysis of merits given in a person to person conversation versus those that are not?

It really depends what you define as 'quality'. "talking to people about issues related to Bitcoin" is quality to me. It has nothing to do with making big long fancy posts. The fact you judged my 30 merit post on the grounds that it was only a few lines long rather than reading the conversation it was part of shows me you just don't get it and I'm wasting my time trying to explain it to you.

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pvk444
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March 10, 2018, 07:45:12 AM
 #3502

the merit will lead to new memers never to get rank rise, and surely more and more people people will quit from this forum, i just want to know how to handle those hero and legend members with scam posts? i think most scams are posted by those high rank members who participate in bounty campaign
No, it’s possible just work hard and smart.

I know that this is the intention, but it's not how it works. Equating working hard and smart with the possibility of gaining merits, is not reality. There are way too many great posts out there which recieve no merits while weak posts receive several merits. The causality that's being claimed here, does not hold on average

Then make a thread with those "great" posts without merits entitled "Me Applying to be A Merit Source". This is the greatest solution for your complain. Members may merit those posts that don't really makes sense to you but I think they have their own reason why they've done that, these reasons include merit trading and alt accounts.

Everybody has there own reasons, and that's exactly my point. The reason MIGHT be because the post is of good quality. But it MIGHT also be because you simply strongly agree with the opinion. Or it MIGHT be because you just want to raise the importance of the post in a debate. Or it MIGHT be just because you feel like giving away some merits ... And exactly because of all these possibilities, it is a false equivalence to state that with good quality people will eventually earn the merits they deserve.

Furthermore, if merits are used also in merit trading and other matters, then that again demonstrates that the quality => merits is simply not accurate.

As I mentioned previously, as long as the system works to keep spammers in check, I don't really care about these side effects. But making people believe that the quality of their contribution will be reflected in the amount of merits they gain, is misleading.
pvk444
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March 10, 2018, 07:51:52 AM
 #3503


Again you focus on 'quality', forget that and start talking to people about issues related to Bitcoin, that's what the forum is for.


These are the false equivalences that are of concern. You switch from a quality focus to focusing on "talking to people about issues related to Bitcoin", and make it appear as that would be the relevant measure for gaining merits. And once again, whereas the intention of this might be the right one, it is not what data shows how it really works.

What data? Can you point me to a statistical analysis of merits given in a person to person conversation versus those that are not?

It really depends what you define as 'quality'. "talking to people about issues related to Bitcoin" is quality to me. It has nothing to do with making big long fancy posts. The fact you judged my 30 merit post on the grounds that it was only a few lines long rather than reading the conversation it was part of shows me you just don't get it and I'm wasting my time trying to explain it to you.


You can look at the data yourself if you cross-sample users what they were given merits for.

You seem to be very defensive about your post. So be it.  I leave you with your illusion of superiority.
TheQuin
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March 10, 2018, 07:58:37 AM
Last edit: March 10, 2018, 09:16:04 AM by TheQuin
 #3504

it is a false equivalence to state that with good quality people will eventually earn the merits they deserve.

What I am trying to say is that people that use the forum for its intended purpose "A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." will get the required merit. There is no false equivalence because you're the one ranting on about quality, not me.

Furthermore, if merits are used also in merit trading and other matters, then that again demonstrates that the quality => merits is simply not accurate.

That's a very short term issue, most of the airdrop sMerit has already been abused and that problem has all but disappeared.

As I mentioned previously, as long as the system works to keep spammers in check, I don't really care about these side effects.

It's certainly working. Spammers going to spam. The spam megathreads still get poinless posts tacked on the end of them for signature payment but these guys will never rank up.

But making people believe that the quality of their contribution will be reflected in the amount of merits they gain, is misleading.

I'm not misleading anyone. I was giving myself as an example to prove the person I originally replied to wrong. They stated it was impossible to rank up and I am proof that is not the case. If someone uses the forum in the way I do, mainly to read and learn and then get involved in debates, merit will be less of an obstacle to ranking up than activity is.

Just to show I'm not by any means special here's another example. Full member with 118 earned merit. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1010454



Edit. As you back to back posted here's the reply to your second post.

You can look at the data yourself if you cross-sample users what they were given merits for.

Where? You still don't get it. You can't do statistical analysis of the context of the conversation a post is in.

You seem to be very defensive about your post. So be it.  I leave you with your illusion of superiority.

I'm not being defensive, you just unwittingly pointed out a great example of what I'm trying to explain.


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dragonvslinux
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March 10, 2018, 10:23:22 AM
 #3505

It's got to be said the more you read this thread the more you'll understand why the merit system is in place.
I'd recommend it to anyone new, at least a few pages Wink

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guschin
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March 10, 2018, 11:38:54 AM
 #3506

I know that this is the intention, but it's not how it works. Equating working hard and smart with the possibility of gaining merits, is not reality. There are way too many great posts out there which recieve no merits while weak posts receive several merits. The causality that's being claimed here, does not hold on average

You will have to rule out the cases where merit system is being abused. Weak posts getting merit points is clear indication that alt accounts or friends are involved in this. Many of those cases are being reported and those members will stop doing this because of actions being taken.

Regarding good posts not receiving merits, that is a valid concern in my opinion. We need to increase the number of merits allotted to merit sources per month. There should not be a situation where a merit sees a deserving post but has no merits to give to it.
Creepings
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March 10, 2018, 12:31:19 PM
 #3507

It's got to be said the more you read this thread the more you'll understand why the merit system is in place.
I'd recommend it to anyone new, at least a few pages Wink

There is a lot of other things you can read and know in this forum when it comes to digital currencies especially Bitcoin but the bitcoin discussions are filled with posts that is not really helpful but to the members that are posting there. Merit is the new system and it didn't really change the forum that much except the posts are getting better and better.
Fleisher
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March 10, 2018, 01:03:20 PM
 #3508

in a way this system is good to prevent spam. but i would make some changes to this system. like stated in another post above,  i also think that is hard to achieve the merit ranks, especially for the newbies. i would bet that an old member would give more merit to older members than to newbies. this is basic psychology and also in the endgame, a older member will expect more merit from an older member then from a newbie. why? simple. a full member has lets say 200 merit and 100 merit to give a way. a newbie has 10merit and 5 merit to give away. so what do you think of whom you will have greater chances to receive merit?

and btw this is not my original account. my original sr. member account got hacked so now I am a junior Smiley

First did you try to recover that account by following all the required steps.

Now regarding this behaviors that you mentioned is something related to expecting merits from the member to who you are giving. I am not a senior member or one with any friends here but I think that human emotions may compel some people to do so. One should still ensure that the merits are being sent to deserving posts only. May be the admin makes changes to the system so that new members can also earn merits easily.

yes. couldn't retrieve my account, just blocked it for further use. but i don't mind. don't care much about ranks. but in a way its funny to have a jr rank and being on this forum from before the mt gox hack 5years back Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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galkina
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March 10, 2018, 01:22:46 PM
 #3509

It's got to be said the more you read this thread the more you'll understand why the merit system is in place.
I'd recommend it to anyone new, at least a few pages Wink

If someone gives time to read all the pages in the thread and go through the responses made in the queries, he will get a lot of edge over other members in getting merits. There are approx 10-20 queries about merits here daily and if you are able to give appropriate reply to them, you can certainly get some merits.

If you do not have the time to go through all the pages, read at least 20 pages from the beginning and the new members should read the OP at least 4-5 times.

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Molli
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March 10, 2018, 02:03:13 PM
 #3510

Almost 2 months have passed since the appearance of the merit. During this time I wrote more than 100 not the worst posts in the local section of the forum. And I did not receive a single merit. Seems that I do not understand how this works.

suvo05
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March 10, 2018, 03:13:14 PM
 #3511

I think the best way to stop spamming we need to introduce the demerit system, in this forum. Unlike the Smerit system only few selected and trusted member will have this demerit power. And the other members can only report about the spam in a post where those selected member can review the post for demeriting.

And second thing is we need to stop spending merit in the service section and bounties section. As lot of merit is being gave away their for some post which does not deserve to be merited.

lobcmt2
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March 10, 2018, 03:46:44 PM
 #3512

Almost 2 months have passed since the appearance of the merit. During this time I wrote more than 100 not the worst posts in the local section of the forum. And I did not receive a single merit. Seems that I do not understand how this works.
Hi,
I check your post history and found that most of your posts are one- or two-line threads, and most of them posted in Russian local board. I don't know Russian language, so I can't understand what you wrote. But I don't think one or two-lined threads would be useful, or helpful (in most cases they don't). You should improve your threads' quality (more lines, more useful/ helpful), more posts in Beginners & help child board and Meta board.

That is my advice for you!

athanz88
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March 10, 2018, 06:18:55 PM
 #3513

I think the best way to stop spamming we need to introduce the demerit system, in this forum. Unlike the Smerit system only few selected and trusted member will have this demerit power. And the other members can only report about the spam in a post where those selected member can review the post for demeriting.

And second thing is we need to stop spending merit in the service section and bounties section. As lot of merit is being gave away their for some post which does not deserve to be merited.

Nah, in my opinion it will only create war between people who can give demerits. Merit is already good, by not getting merit, all the member who just shitposting wont level up to next rank and they will just give up later. And how to make sure they re giving up (or they can choose to improve theirself) ? One thing i can suggest for the community especially the campaign manager is to increase the requirement to be taken into a signature campaign or bounty campaign, because even myself cant deny that getting money from posting is kinda great and can be done as an extra profittable sidejob.
TheQuin
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March 10, 2018, 07:07:29 PM
 #3514

Almost 2 months have passed since the appearance of the merit. During this time I wrote more than 100 not the worst posts in the local section of the forum. And I did not receive a single merit. Seems that I do not understand how this works.

Yup, you don't understand. Spend some time reading the thousands of posts about it and you might have a chance of understanding. In general, just try to read and understand more, then you might have something to say that someone with merit to give thinks is worth merit.

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coinlocket$
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March 10, 2018, 10:02:22 PM
Last edit: March 10, 2018, 10:16:42 PM by coinlocket$
 #3515

Almost 2 months have passed since the appearance of the merit. During this time I wrote more than 100 not the worst posts in the local section of the forum. And I did not receive a single merit. Seems that I do not understand how this works.

Maybe you do the right job(quality-helpfull posts), but you need two more impontart factors on you side

1- someone read you
2- the one who read you press the magic botton


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Deena
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March 10, 2018, 10:58:52 PM
 #3516

Almost 2 months have passed since the appearance of the merit. During this time I wrote more than 100 not the worst posts in the local section of the forum. And I did not receive a single merit. Seems that I do not understand how this works.

After writing more than a 100 normal contributive posts without getting merits you are actually beginning to understand how this system works; it doesn't. That is; it only works for those who are arrived. They now don't need to abuse the trust system to keep their rising competitors down.
xBoxLive
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March 10, 2018, 11:41:45 PM
 #3517

Fuck it. why not just buy merits. I mean if account sales are allowed, so should merit sales. For real, if Theymos can charge for being able to make more posts as newbie by buying a copper membership, why don't he just sale merit rank ups. Oh but it could never come to that could it? Before the Copper membership came around, that wasn't possible either was it? I don't know when he implemented buying whitelist, but that probably could have never happened either though before it did.

SELL MERIT RANK UP'S THEYMOS

Real Talk, I'd be interested in buying because I won't be able to. Yeah my posts aren't that great, I know that. But look through my history, I rarely do anything else but sell misc. digital items.


EDIT

Merit me for this so once he does do this, I won't have to buy them  Grin
nullius
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March 11, 2018, 12:34:51 AM
 #3518

https://web.archive.org/web/20180311002810/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg32023727#msg32023727
Fuck it. why not just buy merits. I mean if account sales are allowed, so should merit sales. For real, if Theymos can charge for being able to make more posts as newbie by buying a copper membership, why don't he just sale merit rank ups. Oh but it could never come to that could it? Before the Copper membership came around, that wasn't possible either was it? I don't know when he implemented buying whitelist, but that probably could have never happened either though before it did.

SELL MERIT RANK UP'S THEYMOS

Real Talk, I'd be interested in buying because I won't be able to. Yeah my posts aren't that great, I know that. But look through my history, I rarely do anything else but sell misc. digital items.


EDIT

Merit me for this so once he does do this, I won't have to buy them  Grin

Congrats; I’ve been slack lately, but no longer:

Quote from: nullius
#917001 “xBoxLive” advocated buying and selling of merits, *and* simultaneously begged for merit.  FOR SHAME.  As the Latin etymology of the word implies, *merit* is to be EARNED.

This feedback is made consistently with my trust feedback policy:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3009256.0

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Activity: 266
Merit: 25


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March 11, 2018, 12:43:31 AM
 #3519

https://web.archive.org/web/20180311002810/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg32023727#msg32023727
Fuck it. why not just buy merits. I mean if account sales are allowed, so should merit sales. For real, if Theymos can charge for being able to make more posts as newbie by buying a copper membership, why don't he just sale merit rank ups. Oh but it could never come to that could it? Before the Copper membership came around, that wasn't possible either was it? I don't know when he implemented buying whitelist, but that probably could have never happened either though before it did.

SELL MERIT RANK UP'S THEYMOS

Real Talk, I'd be interested in buying because I won't be able to. Yeah my posts aren't that great, I know that. But look through my history, I rarely do anything else but sell misc. digital items.


EDIT

Merit me for this so once he does do this, I won't have to buy them  Grin

Congrats; I’ve been slack lately, but no longer:

Quote from: nullius
#917001 “xBoxLive” advocated buying and selling of merits, *and* simultaneously begged for merit.  FOR SHAME.  As the Latin etymology of the word implies, *merit* is to be EARNED.

This feedback is made consistently with my trust feedback policy:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3009256.0


#HIPPOCRITE COPPER MEMBER
nullius
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Activity: 588
Merit: 2461


There is only one Bitcoin.


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March 11, 2018, 01:06:40 AM
Last edit: March 11, 2018, 01:22:17 AM by nullius
 #3520

https://web.archive.org/web/20180311002810/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg32023727#msg32023727
[—snip—]

Quote from: nullius
#917001 “xBoxLive” advocated buying and selling of merits, *and* simultaneously begged for merit.  FOR SHAME.  As the Latin etymology of the word implies, *merit* is to be EARNED.

This feedback is made consistently with my trust feedback policy:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3009256.0


#HIPPOCRITE COPPER MEMBER

Well, that’s amusing non sequitur.  It will probably remain all the moreso if I don’t ask you to explain the relevance of my Copper Membership.  Also amusing:

Quote from: xBoxLive
Don't like my opinions so they left me negative feedback. But they are the one that had to buy "Whitelist" or a title. #HIPPOCRITE

You don’t realize, I collect those petty little retaliations from petty little people.  I haven’t earned one in awhile.  Thanks.

It may help your writing if you were to buy a dictionary, and learn the spelling and definition of the word “hypocrite”.  Also, if you were not stupid.  But that’s beside the point, given your reprehensible attitude.

The merit system has a dual purpose, positive and negative.  Its positive component is to reward people like me for making posts which others find valuable; the number below my name speaks for me on that point.  Its negative component is to chase snowflakes like you away from the forum, so that you don’t spoil it for others.  The system is doing its job, on both sides of the coin!



Edit to add:  *plonk*  (I believe these occasional public examples to be a social necessity; but now, there is nothing more to see here.)

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