Merit & new rank requirements

[mohammadzayadi]

its really hard to get merit what a system

Not too difficult if you always try to make a quality post 

[1714079870]

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[athanz88]

its really hard to get merit what a system

Not too difficult if you always try to make a quality post  

While your replied to the pst is cood and an encouragement, but it is considered a bad things to post 2 posts in a row, better look at the rules again fella before it is too late and you might regret it.

[seven2smoke1]

its really hard to get merit what a system

Not too difficult if you always try to make a quality post  

It is considered a bad things to post 2 posts in a row, better look at the rules again fella before it is too late and you might regret it.

True, he can just reply to the 2 posts in the same quote. These kind of activities likely is like spam. I see that he had already 9 merits and it's clear that he want to rank up by getting only 1. but things goes not like that, I mean by posting 2 posts in a row.

[vominhtri1611]

I wonder who the first one to 15 million merits will be 

I like this change a lot . Hopefully we'll see an increase in post quality 

For sure, it won't be you.  No wonder you don't have any merits.   Your post is a waste of space.  Practice what you preach and make quality posts. 

I know who I am, I am Vietnamese, and I am still learning and improving my knowledge to post constructive posts, it's a process, Merit is to evaluate whether an article is useful or constructive, and to have a constructive post that requires a lot of knowledge, enthusiasm and experience. Not an easy one. And I'm posting this thread just for fun, and let everyone discuss and talk to each other. So do not be so serious, okay?

[TryNinja]

My merit(s) are finished, i gave them all but i want to give more,
I am a quite new member and also new in the crypto world, I am learning a lot from the forum and i would to express "a thanks" to those that they help me with their posts and answers

Is my account going to get more, let's say in a month, like an upgrade or it's one life things?
No more at all ?

Read the thread... You get 1 sMerit for every 2 merits you receive.

Other than that, there is no other way to receive sMerit.

sorry if this is already answered but you know we have 157 pages here, there is a way to know the overall unspent Merit here on forum? (maybe only for active member to get a more realisic number)

Theymos said that he distributed about 600k sMerits across the forum. At the time I'm writing this post, 75724 merit has been sent in total across the forum[1]. Do the math and you will get an approximate number.
[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsendat

[athanz88]

I wonder who the first one to 15 million merits will be  

I like this change a lot . Hopefully we'll see an increase in post quality  

For sure, it won't be you.  No wonder you don't have any merits.   Your post is a waste of space.  Practice what you preach and make quality posts.  

I know who I am, I am Vietnamese, and I am still learning and improving my knowledge to post constructive posts, it's a process, Merit is to evaluate whether an article is useful or constructive, and to have a constructive post that requires a lot of knowledge, enthusiasm and experience. Not an easy one. And I'm posting this thread just for fun, and let everyone discuss and talk to each other. So do not be so serious, okay?

Chill man, everyone is accepted in bitcointalk.org, especially people who has passion for bitcoin and cryptocurrency and willingly to do something good for the forum and for the member, i hope you are that kind of person.
Merits is not only for useful or constructive posts, we can give merit to the post that we like or we agree, becuase there will be subjective point of view based on the giver of merit, so lets just continue using forum and learn a lot, but dont put "getting merit" as your main reasons, just let it flow, merits will come later if you give your time and energy to contribute to the forum. Good luck mate !

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

And yet it's you two pathetic dipshits in this thread trolling all dissenting opinion. You contribute nothing of value, so it's best just to ignore you.

Ignoring might have served you well and saved you in the first place from getting your nosey little selfie involved in your made-up drama bullshit.     

Nothing wrong with providing contrarian views if you can attempt to stay on topic, make some kind of point and attempt to back up what you are saying.

[JayJuanGee]

sorry if this is already answered but you know we have 157 pages here, there is a way to know the overall unspent Merit here on forum? (maybe only for active member to get a more realisic number)

You can get your own unspent merit by attempting to spend a merit, but I believe that if the merit button is not available, then you have no available merit to spend.  

I believe that there is NOT a way, so far to see the unspent merit of other users; however, I believe that there had been some posts speculating on how many were available in total, and I believe Theymos did provide an overall number in one of his posts.

There are some other merit stats available, here which is also at the bottom of the merits page that is accessible on your personal profile page.

Edit: Whoops: I see that TryNinja beat me to it, and had largely already made a response with additional details, above.

[cjmoles]

I think that I am already noticing a difference on the forum....And, I can see some use cases for how merits could be used to solicit contributions for quality research.  For example, if an sMerit contributor were to set up a thread offering merit for original content on a particular subject, then it would help focus the energy of the merit hunters in a constructive manner ---> I think we're really on to something brilliant with this merit system ---> of course, it will take some time to find it's equilibrium.  I have noticed, however, that some of the long time trust abusers are already trying to game the merit system and that sucks.

[Forward_Thinking]

First, just to clear the air (if anyone will actually read this) I am biased because I don't feel I can personally rank up anymore. So, take this with a grain of salt.

My thoughts:

I know the merit is new, and I really like the concept because BitcoinTalk.org is a core part of the community and needs to be protected, but based on the evidence, I don't see this working as planned. Rather, it appears to be simply a caste system where the current ranked people have now just hard coded their levels and almost no one else will be ranking up from this point forward.

I don't have access to the actual data so I just have to go with my observations. But I would LOVE to see the ranking growth rates since the Merit system was implemented. Probably went from some rapidly growing rate to near zero. Was that the goal? To turn off leveling up? I bet that's what happened.

Here are my limited observations:

1) Merit does not appear to be moving from the haves to the have nots.

-This means we have a liquidity problem

2) Where Merit has moved, it appears to be too infrequent to work as intended, where better posters would be moving up in rank.

-Easy to confirm, just scan the latest threads you are reading and see how many people are still sitting at a round number of Merit (e.g., 10, 100, 250, etc). It's just about everyone. Again, I would love to see a % of accounts that now have anything other than a round number of Merit.

3) Where Merit has moved, it's very hard for the public to know why, who gave it, and for what posting, which leads me to believe, most of the movement has been from people who control several accounts. As a member of the blockchain community (ignore my 'creation account date' I've been in crypto since 2013) we are supposed to be about transparency and accountability.

-For those without a round number of Merit, they appear to have earned just 1 to 4 added points, and again, a scan of their recent posts do not yield anything more impressive than other people's posts (in my opinion). But the lack of transparency will lead to suspicion in this community, as it has done with me. That's just how we roll!

-I realize there is some public tracking going on, but it's not easy to find and therefore doesn't actually work as transparent (IMHO)

4) While BitcoinTalk is flooded with spammers and multiple accounts (and I completely agree that is a problem) under the new system, ranking up has become virtually impossible and will no longer reward activity. While spam is a problem, I believe a new problem will emerge, a lack of interest in posting on this site which will lead to degradation of utility.

-I've worked  in many settings where leaders considered cutting some requirement (like how under the old rules, simply posting got your rank on this site). They wanted to cut the requirement because it seemed extra, unhelpful. But I argued against cutting it because although it was not helpful directly for the intended purpose, removing it would very likely lead to a situation where performance would decline and then this seemingly unhelpful requirement would actually once again become useful. I know I'm leaving out detail here, but think of it like an ecosystem. Some would say "who cares if species XYZ goes extinct" until years later they realize that caused a chain reaction that killed off an entire jungle.

Problems and complaints, that's not very helpful. So how about a solution?

I prefer small changes, so what if Merit was no longer tied to ranking up, but the activity level requirements doubled or tripled. Or what if some small amount of Merit was required to level up. Like, people had to earn at least 1 Merit point before moving each rank level. AND, I would recommend you grant people more sMerit to solve the liquidity problem.

To summarize: the Merit change, appears to not be meeting the stated indented goals, and I would urge the leadership of this site to consider an alternative before significant damage is caused to a key institution of the crypt world...this site.

Even though I don't agree with your overall conclusions because I believe that you are a bit too premature to be coming to such strong assessments and conclusions about the lackings of the merit system, I did give you two merits for the post because 1) it seems that you put quite a decent amount of effort into the post, and just doing a quick glance at your posting history, I see that you have quite a few decent and well articulated posts.  

Furthermore, it is likely that you will be able to earn another 88 merits to rank up to full member as long as you continue to engage, post on topics that interest you, attempt to provide value by reading the OP and reading recent posts, attempt to keep some humor and even to help yourself to sort through the many questions that a lot of us continue to have in this dynamic space about crypto currencies (hopefully you are interested in bitcoin, but perhaps other cryptos as well)... and of course , there are other topics on this forum too that may be interesting to you and cause others to award you merit for your input and participation in such topics.

Thanks. I honestly didn't think anyone with Merit would care to encourage my posts. Another aspect of the problem. Merit's control is deeply centralized. But I would be ok with that if they amount of Merit required was not so incredibly high.

But I don't think I'm on here enough to earn enough to rank up and I do think the data would support my conclusion that the Merit system was too much of a swing in the other direction. I'm actually concerned this change could cripple what is a very important part of the crypto ecosystem. I've been in and out of crypto for years. Lost access to my original profile because, like I said, I'm not on here much. Coming back in I've found this place has changed. It used to be my go-to to ask for and get great answers. I think it's still the best source for interactive answers. I also like this is THE place to launch an ICO bounty. And odd development to me, but I like it. That will forever codify its place in the system.

There certainly are way too many new spammer accounts that don't do much for the discussions. But I don't have access to enough data to know if they are really spammers or just newbies. I'm guessing a mix.

Realize that newbies should be welcomed here. If you want crypt to grow, and we all do, we need to make it so new people feel comfortable, not excluded.

And thanks again for the Merit, especially since you disagree   

Think of it like FB. They probably want to censor posts because they have their own worldview. But it's counter to their mission and would cripple users activity and then what happens? FB stops being useful to very many people (cough 'MySpace').

[JayJuanGee]

I think that I am already noticing a difference on the forum....And, I can see some use cases for how merits could be used to solicit contributions for quality research.  For example, if an sMerit contributor were to set up a thread offering merit for original content on a particular subject, then it would help focus the energy of the merit hunters in a constructive manner ---> I think we're really on to something brilliant with this merit system ---> of course, it will take some time to find it's equilibrium.  I have noticed, however, that some of the long time trust abusers are already trying to game the merit system and that sucks.

There are already a lot of threads that attempt variations on smerit give aways, and maybe more will spring up, because it is appears that members receive some merits just for creating an organized thread in that direction, especially if they might have some interesting or innovative approach or way to target their merit spending.

Here's  a list of some of the merit give away threads, and I think that there are other merit give away threads that are not listed in that thread.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Thanks. I honestly didn't think anyone with Merit would care to encourage my posts. Another aspect of the problem. Merit's control is deeply centralized. But I would be ok with that if they amount of Merit required was not so incredibly high.

You may be correct that the merit required is a bit too high, but if it ends up being overkill then there may be a way that Theymos can fairly tweak it - but it is certainly not a given that he will tweak it in the near future because perhaps some of the problems had gotten so far out of hand with spammers and bounty seekers that a period of overkill might be considered a better short-term path forward - because even tweaking back down would have some potential costs, too.

But I don't think I'm on here enough to earn enough to rank up and I do think the data would support my conclusion that the Merit system was too much of a swing in the other direction.

Well, you are correct that you have to be on the system and using it in order to earn merit, and you could be correct that you are not going to be on enough to earn merit to rank up in any kind of timely manner - but I think that was part of what was being attempted to rank  up and differentiate the more active users - even though you might be a good person and even a more rounded person by not being on the forum so much.. but what is rewarded is being active on the forum, so in that sense there could be some disproportionate rewarding of internet nerds and socially awkward people rather than "normies" hahahahhaha

I'm actually concerned this change could cripple what is a very important part of the crypto ecosystem.

Could be, but it NOT like the system is locked in or that the changed has created an inevitable spiral downward into DOOM, and if it ends up being too much then there may be ways to tweak it, like already mentioned.

I've been in and out of crypto for years.

Well , this is a place to witness a variety of those stories.. and disgruntled rage quits, distractions through alts, ICOs and bounty hunts, battles with bitcoin maximalists and many variations.  Sometimes you can add to the story and understanding of others and other times through participation you can learn the extent to which or in what ways your story differs or potentially adds value - and it can be quite interesting to get into some kind of online battle with another user, and then later realize that you have way more in common with your online battle opponent than you initially thought.

Lost access to my original profile because, like I said, I'm not on here much.

In my 4 years on here, I did lose access to my account twice, so that taught me 1) a bit better safe keeping of my account, 2) the value of my account and 3) it can be a bit of a bitch to get back access to your account.

Coming back in I've found this place has changed. It used to be my go-to to ask for and get great answers. I think it's still the best source for interactive answers.

We know that change is inevitable, and look at bitcoin and the crypto space..   HOLY FUCKING SHIT...   You cannot kept the same atmosphere when you have that much change and money coming into the crypto space - a combination of smart money and dumb money.

I also like this is THE place to launch an ICO bounty. And odd development to me, but I like it. That will forever codify its place in the system.

So far, I have not gotten involved in that aspect of the space - but I understand those kinds of things remain options for me, especially with a high ranking account... .. but personally, I find enough value posting in the space and other things that I have going on in my life (sometimes peeps on the forum assert that I do not have a life outside of the forum, but I surely do, even though I will admit that there are periods of time that I spend more time on the forum that what would be better for me personally).

There certainly are way too many new spammer accounts that don't do much for the discussions. But I don't have access to enough data to know if they are really spammers or just newbies. I'm guessing a mix.

I get confused by the whole thing too, and there are some members who spend a lot of time RED Tagging these kinds of accounts, and I am glad that there are some members willing to engage in that kind of controversial work that also causes them to get sucked into the fray of forum politics, which once your "in" that kind of mess, it may become difficult to figure out a balance.  Here's a good recent and seemingly ongoing example of that kind of messy forum politics.

Realize that newbies should be welcomed here. If you want crypt to grow, and we all do, we need to make it so new people feel comfortable, not excluded.

I don't think that crypto's growth is necessarily dependent on newbies being able to easily rank up in this forum under something like the old forum rules.  It may well come to be that rank becomes more appreciated when it is earned, but also no one is really being stopped from posting in this forum based on rank, but if they are spamming, shit posting then they are going to have difficulties,... and yeah, the same is true that if you are just using the forum to read posts, but you are not really actively engaging, then you are not going to rank up very easily, either.

And thanks again for the Merit, especially since you disagree   

You have a lot of decent ideas and you might find that your ability to get 85 more merits may end up coming easier than you thought.. or that some tweaks could happen in the new merit system to make the seemingly formidable become more attainable.

Think of it like FB. They probably want to censor posts because they have their own worldview. But it's counter to their mission and would cripple users activity and then what happens? FB stops being useful to very many people (cough 'MySpace').

Even though I get the point that you are making here, it seems way too early to suggest that either FB is going down the myspace path or that this forum has any kind of similar downward spiraling fate.

[WaffleMaster]

I'm just glad I was grandfathered in at a respected status of 'Hero'. To double my merit to legendary seems basically impossible, so at least I can be content with my previous activity from many years past. Even if I manage to climb the insane mountain to 1,000 merit, it's still a random selection based system xD

[LKingLion]

Found out the key words "merit is gold." Doing massages, comments, replying and postings have the value of measurements and only the deserving earn. Merit which bring health once given.

[galkinn]

From what I just red it means I can't get MERIT except when someone share it to me right?

You are right about that. Also, make sure that you are not buying any merit. It is easy to spot such behavior and you may get negative trust for this.

[elpsycongree]

From what I just red it means I can't get MERIT except when someone share it to me right?

You are right about that. Also, make sure that you are not buying any merit. It is easy to spot such behavior and you may get negative trust for this.

The challenge is how well you can make your post as constructive or helpful to others. Well, it's difficult to earn merits now and for those people who are making their posts as constructive as they can but can't really earn merits. All that there is to it is to improve their communication skills and knowledge. This forum will surely help them develop those skills as they will be earning points little by little.

[winwinmaimai]

system change is better, but it hard to newbie earn more from bounty!!!!

[nascrypto]

Thanks for the explanation. Yet it's very difficult for a newbie to collect merits. Still, I'll try to increase my knowledge regarding the technology, concepts and culture related to blockchain and cryptocurrency. Once I gather enough information, I can start contributing with rich contents and earn merits. But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits .

No. 

You go ahead and do whatever soul-uplifting research you need to do, and whenever you start writing something worth reading, then you might earn some merits.  I don't hand them out to spam monkeys for free.  Do you feed your neighborhood skunks? 

Didn't think so.

[bobrova]

system change is better, but it hard to newbie earn more from bounty!!!!

That is the reason for change. If you want to earn from the forum, give something in return.