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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 137513 times)
nascrypto
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February 22, 2018, 11:33:23 AM
 #3081

[snip untrimmed quote]

@nullius Yes, I crossed that line and you can see I mentioned in my response "I just corrected my comment". I did mentioned that I want to earn merit, not beg it; I think I could have clarified it by adding "with their armature posts and intention to adding value to the forum". I couldn't express myself properly in the last line; and I thought, I should remove it. But since it was referenced in some posts below, I crossed that line so that no further miscommunication happens and I take full responsibility of that particular line accepting that the wording was wrong. And, I didn't know about the archiving feature of the forum. Just the negative trust feedback disheartened me since my intention was not begging merit rather to earn it by learning and adding value to the forum (as you can see the same intention in my original comment as well). Unfortunately, the red trust in my profile seems like someone jailed me without giving me any chance to explain myself. Since I joined here, I learned a lot regarding cryptocurrency and blockchain that might needed months if I had to acquire them from elsewhere.

Regarding your question, as you can see, I could apply for the airdrop for Equitybase afterwards and I didn't get any denial/got any message regarding red trust so far.

I like the phrase, “I take full responsibility”, as well as your expressed desires to learn and to improve your posts.  Thus, I will take all these at face value; and I will assume that you speak in good faith.

Whereas if your priority here be truly to “increase [your] knowledge regarding the technology, concepts and culture related to [the] blockchain and cryptocurrency”, then my negative feedback should not be a problem for you.  Go ahead!  Learn!  A red tag won’t stop you from learning; and the knowledge will be beneficial to you.

I will keep an eye on your account.  It will not take much of my time to occasionally glance in on your post history and especially, your merit page.  If I see consistent evidence that you’ve been sincere in what you told me here, then eventually, I will consider changing my feedback to neutral or removing it.

Since my feedback specifically pertained to a wrong way to seek merit, one of the most important criteria will be whether you earn merit the honest way.  That is:  Whether you earn merit for posts which a reasonable person may award merit to.  I do not mean posts which I would award merit to.  Some reasonable people might award merit to posts which I would not.  I can recognize that.  No reasonable person would award merit to spam, junk one-liners, gibberish, factually incorrect information, or otherwise objectively low-quality posts.  Also, no reasonable person would award merit as a wiseacre, as charity, or for other nefarious non-reasons.

If you don’t earn merit the honest way, then my trust feedback is almost irrelevant anyway:  You’d be permanently stuck in the low ranks.0  My objective here is that, if you show yourself capable of advancing, I do not wish to hold you back or impair your future forum success.

I will not set a specific timeframe.  That could be misinterpreted as a date on which I will remove the tag; and really, the only timeframe is that I do not commit to checking on your account indefinitely.  Also, there is no need to contact me about this—actually, don’t contact me about this.  You’ve said some good words here.  Now, I’m more interested in your behaviour going forward.



My advice on where to start fulfilling your expressed desire to learn:

The Beginners & Help forum is a good place to ask beginner-level learning questions.  (Yes, I checked your post history; I did not find any posts from you there.)  Read this before posting.  Also, I strongly suggest learning to ask smart questions.

(Note that as I stated in my negative feedback, intelligent questions often do earn merit.  A beginner-level question can be intelligent.  Stupid questions are not meritorious.  Neither are lazy questions, which show you couldn’t be bothered to do some basic reading and thinking, and redundant questions, which show you didn’t look around enough to see that a hundred other people had already asked the same thing.)

And don’t just talk:  Listen!  Read!  I myself spent untold hours lurking and reading forum archives before I even created an account.1  Other people have probably asked about many of the same things which may pique your curiosity.

Another excellent starting resource is Bitcoin.ORG.  People in Beginners & Help can suggest more reading material, if you ask intelligently.

The foregoing should conclude my involvement in this discussion.  Good luck, if you deserve it.



0. I expect that as the merit system develops, an ill image will befall accounts with low rank, activity so disproportionate as to be absurd, and little or no merit.  Actually, I think this process may be in the early stages already.

1. If I had instead simply created an account and started posting daily one-liners in spam megathreads, I would now (and for some time passed) be a Legendary.  This is why we need the merit system.

Appreciated and thanks for the links. They are really useful.
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ridertiger
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February 23, 2018, 06:32:30 AM
 #3082

There seems to be a general thing in the forum, among the most generous merit givers that
if you talk about altcoins instead of bitcoin, you will not get merit.
If you use any other language than English (stated as: a language I don't speak!) in some of your posts, you won't get merit. That is just racist.
If you comment on bounty posts you will not get merit AND you are an idiot.
I think the admins should take a look at this and do something about it.
TheQuin
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February 23, 2018, 06:43:41 AM
Merited by nullius (1)
 #3083

There seems to be a general thing in the forum, among the most generous merit givers that
if you talk about altcoins instead of bitcoin, you will not get merit.

The forum is called Bitcointalk.

If you use any other language than English (stated as: a language I don't speak!) in some of your posts, you won't get merit. That is just racist.

How are people supposed to rate a post they do not understand?

If you comment on bounty posts you will not get merit AND you are an idiot.

That is usually true.

I think the admins should take a look at this and do something about it be happy.


freebitcoin.TO WIN A  LAMBORGHINI!..

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armandoz
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February 23, 2018, 06:54:05 AM
 #3084

merit is become ranking requirement is not easy but this fair to bicoin to have a good and quality post not just posting without impact.  So we need to make up or updating every descation in bitcoin that produce us a merit, in that case we become serious in posting and not become wasting time and electricity.

nullius
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February 23, 2018, 07:04:45 AM
 #3085

There seems to be a general thing in the forum, among the most generous merit givers that
if you talk about altcoins instead of bitcoin, you will not get merit.

The forum is called Bitcointalk.

You’re racist against altcoins.

If you use any other language than English (stated as: a language I don't speak!) in some of your posts, you won't get merit. That is just racist.

How are people supposed to rate a post they do not understand?

You’re racist against words you do not understand.

If you comment on bounty posts you will not get merit AND you are an idiot.

That is usually true.

You’re racist against idiots.

I think the admins should take a look at this and do something about it be happy.

You’re racist against people who wish that the forum be run for their own personal benefit, everyone else be damned.

JayJuanGee
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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February 23, 2018, 07:39:54 AM
 #3086


If you use any other language than English (stated as: a language I don't speak!) in some of your posts, you won't get merit. That is just racist.

How are people supposed to rate a post they do not understand?

You’re racist against words you do not understand.


Me too.

I don't get this stupid-ass racist allegation regarding having an expectation that understandable English is typed.

Sure, there are levels of English, and I doubt that anyone expects the English to be perfect or proper grammar in all instances.. and sometimes bad grammar and typos are purposefully used for effect.. but in the end, there is nothing racist about having an expectation that people deserve more merit (or credit) when they communicated more skillfully to get their ideas across, and the language of the forum is English, unless posting in the local sections.

In the end, the accusation would not be racist, but there could be a valid accusation of "elitism" or "prudism" if someone is expecting English skills that are perfect or near perfect when we are posting on the interwebs....... however, I don't think that anyone is expecting that kind of high level.  Surely you are judged more favorably if you can communicate your ideas clearly and concisely.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
CryptoBey
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February 23, 2018, 09:23:01 AM
Last edit: February 23, 2018, 09:37:26 AM by CryptoBey
 #3087

It's too early to get a clear picture, but my thoughts so far:

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up. The forum is not a welfare system; you don't run through a few hoops and then get paid for doing something that nobody actually wants. I like that good forum members can make money, especially when said forum members are in poorer countries and this is a major opportunity for them. I very much do not want to destroy the sig-ad/airdrop/bounty "industry". But I am not going to tolerate people posting garbage upon garbage. If the merit system completely fails and I can't think of anything else to replace it, then my next step will probably be to completely remove all ways for forum users to make money from posting (eg. removing signatures entirely).

Maybe there are ways for people who were making money by posting garbage on the forum to make money on other sites with easy bounties, etc. (For example, I don't know if they're actually any good, but https://bountyhive.io is currently advertising on the forum.) But people should use the forum to talk about these money-making ideas, not as a way of making money itself. Once you spend a lot of time here, you may be able to make some money here (which is great!), but you should consider this a far-off hope, not your primary objective.


Hello Theymos. I think one of the reason people make garbage messeages is "Bounty Mods wants too many post from bounty hunters for signature campaigns". Some mods want 30 constructive/meaningful messeage for a week to pay for bounty. Thats why people trying to complete their post count with garbage and meaningless posts to get paid. You can put a post limit for mods which they wants for signature campaigns.

Yolu bilmek ile yolda gitmek arasında büyük bir fark vardır. Morpheus
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February 23, 2018, 01:25:35 PM
 #3088

It's too early to get a clear picture, but my thoughts so far:

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up. The forum is not a welfare system; you don't run through a few hoops and then get paid for doing something that nobody actually wants. I like that good forum members can make money, especially when said forum members are in poorer countries and this is a major opportunity for them. I very much do not want to destroy the sig-ad/airdrop/bounty "industry". But I am not going to tolerate people posting garbage upon garbage. If the merit system completely fails and I can't think of anything else to replace it, then my next step will probably be to completely remove all ways for forum users to make money from posting (eg. removing signatures entirely).

Maybe there are ways for people who were making money by posting garbage on the forum to make money on other sites with easy bounties, etc. (For example, I don't know if they're actually any good, but https://bountyhive.io is currently advertising on the forum.) But people should use the forum to talk about these money-making ideas, not as a way of making money itself. Once you spend a lot of time here, you may be able to make some money here (which is great!), but you should consider this a far-off hope, not your primary objective.

BTW, if anyone has any ideas for simple things that these ex-nonsense-posters could usefully do to make money, I think that this'd be a good project right now. There are apparently quite a few people who were making money on the forum and could use guidance. Even though their past activities were not good for this forum, I doubt that they are useless in general.



Merit awards may be too spotty/uneven currently, though it's still too early to say. In addition to continuously adding more sources, if things could still use improvement in this regard in a couple of months, I may do something like decay old sMerit and unused source merit and randomly redistribute the decayed merit. How the random distribution would work would magnify past merit -- so perhaps you would get an increased chance of winning extra merit for every post you've made which has at least 1 merit, but certainly you would not get any extra merit if none of your posts was ever merited.

Merit sales, transfers to aliases, back-and-forth trading, etc. are not much of an issue. All illegitimate merit will decay, and will account for a tiny and very expensive fraction of the total merit economy. It's basically a rounding error; fight it where convenient, but waste no sleep over it.

I think that actmyname has been too hasty with some of his negatives, but I haven't had time to look carefully enough into it to justify making forceful changes. I did exclude actmyname from my trust list, so another DT1 could remove him from the default trust network by doing the same.

hi, i think adding a "like" feature to forum and  an automatic system of 10 likes = 1 merit would be more fair and easily appliable incorporating all the people on the forum.

this current system serves the higher ranked members and their fake accounts.

besides, if mods think a post is garbage, they can ban  the member for 3 5 days.

in the current system most people dont vote  the posts but threads which causes members to create already existing topics such as how to open a mew account, how to earn airdrop topics etc over and over again.

also some icos require  a lot of posts weekly and this could be hindered n their side limiting this number to 10.

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February 23, 2018, 01:27:30 PM
 #3089

sMerit reduction for red trust seems like a ridiculous proposed solution from my point of view - since the merit system and the trust system are separate, and bringing in some kind of reduction of sMerit formula for red trust would likely cause more problems than it solves in terms of adding complexity and possible unintended bad player gaming consequences.
Both merit and trust systems can be abused as time goes on, abusements have been demonstrated by proofs. Nevertheless, I totally agree with JayJuanGee, those two systems should operated separately because they have very different original objectives in the forum. No need to combine them into one system.

Probably the best control is to apply some red trust in cases that are clear abuses. For cases that are not that clear... well then they won´t harm the system much, would they?
sirfel
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February 23, 2018, 03:27:42 PM
 #3090

It's hard to understand where to get merits. I'm not after with the merits though. Maybe doing efforts to help people make money here in bitcointalk could consider be a merit
dvhiph
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February 23, 2018, 03:59:34 PM
 #3091

It's hard to understand where to get merits. I'm not after with the merits though. Maybe doing efforts to help people make money here in bitcointalk could consider be a merit
It is likely that English is not your mother tongue, right? To get merits, you should sharpen your English skills, reading and writing are most important skills. If you cannot read and understand what others wrote, you cannot do anything. Your posts will probably off-topic due to misunderstanding. Writing threads in broken English make them really difficult to understand, which in turn will reduce your opportunities to earn merits from other users.
InvoKing
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February 23, 2018, 04:00:09 PM
 #3092

It's hard to understand where to get merits. I'm not after with the merits though. Maybe doing efforts to help people make money here in bitcointalk could consider be a merit

It is hard to understand how can someone read the first post and don't understand after that how to get merit.
A simple answer : make useful and good quality posts.
More info https://m.imgur.com/a/jWrTB, you could get more informations from the infographics in the OP.
kivatbat
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February 23, 2018, 04:25:48 PM
 #3093

So I joined a signature campaign and they removed JR. Member bounties. Now I am having a problem on how to be a Member ranked. I just learned that I need 10 merits to have a member rank. So to any JR. Member here, let's do our best to make quality content so that someone will recognize our efforts in making our community better.

If anyone can provide a link to people giving merits after doing something good or productive please give link so I can earn merits not by asking people but because of my effort and for JR. Members to have a reference too.

Thank you so much. Have a nice day  Smiley
cryptocommoner
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February 23, 2018, 05:40:38 PM
 #3094

So I joined a signature campaign and they removed JR. Member bounties. Now I am having a problem on how to be a Member ranked. I just learned that I need 10 merits to have a member rank. So to any JR. Member here, let's do our best to make quality content so that someone will recognize our efforts in making our community better.

If anyone can provide a link to people giving merits after doing something good or productive please give link so I can earn merits not by asking people but because of my effort and for JR. Members to have a reference too.

Thank you so much. Have a nice day  Smiley

I'm in your boat too regarding the merit requirements.  It's going to take a long time to fully adopt.
ProofOfLambo
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February 23, 2018, 05:45:16 PM
 #3095

sMerit reduction for red trust seems like a ridiculous proposed solution from my point of view - since the merit system and the trust system are separate, and bringing in some kind of reduction of sMerit formula for red trust would likely cause more problems than it solves in terms of adding complexity and possible unintended bad player gaming consequences.
Both merit and trust systems can be abused as time goes on, abusements have been demonstrated by proofs. Nevertheless, I totally agree with JayJuanGee, those two systems should operated separately because they have very different original objectives in the forum. No need to combine them into one system.

IMO, those who found clearly abusing the merit system should be passed onto the inquisition the Red Painters so that they have a good reason not to do it in the future.
pitchi
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February 23, 2018, 08:44:39 PM
 #3096

It's realy hard to understand where to get merits still confused here  Huh  Huh
InvoKing
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February 23, 2018, 09:00:20 PM
 #3097

It's realy hard to understand where to get merits still confused here  Huh  Huh

It's really hard to understand how you couldn't understand a concept explained million times over and over...and over!
Read the first post, take a look on the infographics...still didn't understand? Just make useful posts and people will give you merit points as a reward.....................

It's hard to understand where to get merits. I'm not after with the merits though. Maybe doing efforts to help people make money here in bitcointalk could consider be a merit

It is hard to understand how can someone read the first post and don't understand after that how to get merit.
A simple answer : make useful and good quality posts.
More info https://m.imgur.com/a/jWrTB, you could get more informations from the infographics in the OP.
singlebit
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February 23, 2018, 09:34:36 PM
 #3098

It's realy hard to understand where to get merits still confused here  Huh  Huh
It is simply you doing quality post not for topic that no one including bitcoin topic or discussions or probably you do as being creativity with constructive that you making idea for members while read your post info for your topic,Merit system is way for your activity or ranks count if you doing better and not collaborate for spammers.
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February 24, 2018, 01:59:57 AM
 #3099

Why has the merit list been removed for this thread?     Angry

I don't find it ugly or distracting at all... I think it shows the community this post is worth reading!


(size increased to be visible against this giant image)




I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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nullius
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February 24, 2018, 03:40:08 AM
Last edit: February 24, 2018, 03:51:19 AM by nullius
 #3100


If you use any other language than English (stated as: a language I don't speak!) in some of your posts, you won't get merit. That is just racist.

How are people supposed to rate a post they do not understand?

You’re racist against words you do not understand.


Me too.

[...]

In the end, the accusation would not be racist, but there could be a valid accusation of "elitism" [...]

Guilty as charged.


this current system serves the higher ranked members and their fake accounts.

Evidence, please.


It's hard to understand where to get merits. I'm not after with the merits though. Maybe doing efforts to help people make money here in bitcointalk could consider be a merit

I do believe that you’re “not after with [sic] the merits”, insofar as you are neither interested in making meritorious posts yourself, nor participating in a forum with high S/N ratio where you could read many meritorious posts by othersYour post history brims with bounties and useless trash.  You are here for the wrong reasons.  Don’t expect help with that.


It is hard to understand how can someone read the first post and don't understand after that how to get merit.

Objection.  Assumes facts not in evidence...


It's realy hard to understand where to get merits still confused here  Huh  Huh

It's really hard to understand how you couldn't understand a concept explained million times over and over...and over!
Read the first post,

...and moreover, factual assertions contradicted by the evidence.


So I joined a signature campaign and they removed JR. Member bounties. Now I am having a problem on how to be a Member ranked. I just learned that I need 10 merits to have a member rank.

Wow, the merit system is actually working!


IMO, those who found clearly abusing the merit system should be passed onto the inquisition the Red Painters so that they have a good reason not to do it in the future.

Nice try.


Why has the merit list been removed for this thread?     Angry

I don't find it ugly or distracting at all... I think it shows the community this post is worth reading!

Thinking aloud:  It is also a place for people to attempt gaining improper visibility for themselves.  Especially those who marked OP +50 or other absurd amounts.  Of course, that is not the only potential motivation; but the possibility must be considered, on the OP of a thread which thus far has >40000 reads and is onto its 158th page of replies.

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