NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[msin]

Very cool!

Question (since this isn't all of the code obviously): Is this system using shared keys between the transmitter and receiver? That way, even if the hallmarked node is malicious, it can't read the file unless it knows either Peer1 or Peer2's private key.

Another question: What incentive does this hallmarked node receive by providing it's bandwidth to transfer files?

Thanks!

Yes, either the entire object can be encrypted and packed into another object or the individual variables of an object can be packed inside of an object and then sent.

I was thinking something like this...

Code:

byte[] data = SerializationUtils.serialize(dataPacket);
byte[] encryptedObject = Crypto.xorEncrypt(data, position, length, privateKey, publicKey);

Their incentive could be from fees, I can probably hack it in there somewhere.

+1. Good stuff!

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[jl777]

Anon136, your proposal sounds similar to the function of the "pawn ticket" for U.S. pawnshops. I don't know under what auspices they are not classified as securities, but in effect they operate as bearer bonds for the item(s) held by the pawn shops.

I think the reason it is not classified as a security is that the pawn shop/dry cleaners dont have a fiduciary duty to redeem. For instance, if their store burns down with your clothes, I doubt you can go to the dry cleaners afterwards for a refund. So, the claim checks are not secured by anything other than the business goodwill of the shop. Kind of like an unsecured loan.

Generally speaking securities tend to be fungible items, and usually pawn shop/dry cleaner claim checks are not for fungible items. The fact that you are using the claim check model for presumably fungible silver items is probably not going to make it a security, but maybe they will change the law because of you

James

[BrianNowhere]

Ive not noticed anyone say they were sick of your posts.  I read your writing and I 100% agree with it being ridiculous to try to adjust fees in client as NXT fluctuates in its value per fiat, which is why I've been saying we should determine how to untie fees from fiat.  But I must question your understanding of a blockchain though, if you are suggesting that we make it free for people to issue bid/ask orders on the AE.  You must remember that one of the key functions of fees are spam control.  Also, you are not considering the full functionality of AE - you seem to think its only a currency exchange market when really its an 'asset' market. Its not like there will be assets created on any of the centralized exchanges that people can operate on.  And later when/if the AT currency exchange portion comes, fees on it are just going to have to be implemented for orders.

The bottom line is that AE is not built for HFC, and the con to a decentralized exchange is fees per order instead of fees per % of successful trade.  Of course the reverse holds for centralized exchanges.  Different use - different purpose.

I still say that we should implement fees as low as possible to encourage utility.  With high usage that low fees can bring, forgers will make up the difference and it will be win/win for all involved.

I really don't want to have to bring up that "ecosystem whose name rhymes with that little pink tip located in the center of an areola" again, but that ecosystem just also happens to have the the same spam control issues as Nxt and handles it by charging mere fractions of a penny for the fee. I do agree that HFT is not a great thing, but you're cutting off a lot of good flesh by trying to gouge the cancer this way.

The things I'm mentioning may be very well impossible considering the Nxt infrastructure as written by Mr. Next. That's for bigger brains than me to say. For whatever reason they aren't a problem for that system that's named after a famous Grateful Dead song that played at the end of Mask when Rocky Dennis passed away).

If users don't like it, no one is going to care about these excuses as to why you couldn't do it. They will just go away.

[Anon136]

Anon136, your proposal sounds similar to the function of the "pawn ticket" for U.S. pawnshops. I don't know under what auspices they are not classified as securities, but in effect they operate as bearer bonds for the item(s) held by the pawn shops.

I think the reason it is not classified as a security is that the pawn shop/dry cleaners dont have a fiduciary duty to redeem. For instance, if their store burns down with your clothes, I doubt you can go to the dry cleaners afterwards for a refund. So, the claim checks are not secured by anything other than the business goodwill of the shop. Kind of like an unsecured loan.

Generally speaking securities tend to be fungible items, and usually pawn shop/dry cleaner claim checks are not for fungible items. The fact that you are using the claim check model for presumably fungible silver items is probably not going to make it a security, but maybe they will change the law because of you

James

oh well if thats the case than its easy. i wont promise to redeem anything. ill reserve the express right no not redeem anything you send me at any time for any reason. infact i wont even say the purpose of the token is to be redeemed for silver, if you do happen to send one to me, and it does happen to result in a silver bar being delivered to your door than that's pure happenstance. you guys can just decide for yourself whether you believe that sending me one of these tokens will happen to result in a silver bar arriving at your door.

[BrianNowhere]

is someone threatening you in PM or something?  Im just not seeing any conflict in the thread.  When I refer to fee based on transaction size, I refer to size in blockchain, which is exactly linear with network bandwidth.  I have stopped responding to igmacas suggestions as I just cannot make heads nor tails from them; I cannot tell if there is just a translation issue or if he is just throwing out keywords and/or suggestions and hoping we will figure it all out based on his general suggestion, because he gives no method or model to his suggestions.

There is really nothing for you to concern yourself over. I can't name names, not because I'm being mysterious but because I don't pay that close attention sometimes. Yesterday I got on some community member's nerves, was told to sell all my Nxt and go away, called a FUD thrower and told I drone on too much about comparing Nxt to another nearly identical system. I'm not mad and I haven't taken anything personally. This is gentlemanly debate. But if I'm getting on people's nerves I have no problem just backing away either.

I really don't care all that much about the technical limitations truth be told. I'm trying to provide a normal users perspective from an objective standpoint. I see many problems that I can see turning off a lot of people and I think many other people will see these same issues as the platform becomes more popular.  I think the users and their motivations are just as much of a technical problem as any transaction byte size limitation is and I'm trying to advise the developers to focus more on finding the exact sweet spot between functionality and usability when it comes to these fees. Fees are just taxes and people hate taxes don't they?

[lyynx]

so i was thinking. perhaps one way that i could avoid running afoul of the law on my nxt silver bullion gateway is to emulate a dry cleaners. dry cleaners take in cloths, issue a claim check for those cloths, alter the state of the cloths, and then return them in exchange for the claim check. for some reason unknown to me this claim check is not considered a "security" under financial regulations. Technically it should be, you can leave your cloths at the dry cleaner for an extended period of time and then sell the claim check to someone else and then that person can use the claim check to acquire your cloths, the dry cleaner claim check is a security in every sense of the word but legally it just isn't. So what ever the reason for that is, which i dont know, i can use it to my advantage by emulating that business to a t.

so lets imagine that i am a silver dry cleaners and the melting of silver shot into a bar is the analogue of dry cleaning the cloths, the silver shot is the dirty cloths, and the silver bar is the clean cloths. You buy 10 ounces of silver shot from some online retailer and set the address for delivery as a POBox of my specification. You then use your nxt address to sign the tracking number of the order and send me enough nxt to pay for the "cleaning". The "dirty" silver arrives at my shop and I issue you a claim check. After enough time has passed for me to "clean" the silver that claim check will become redeemable for silver that is now in the form of a bar. From that point on if other people want to trade that claim check amongst each other than thats none of my business. If there are legal ramifications than the onus is on them, it has nothing to do with me.

the nice thing is that there will still be a market for my claim checks but i will never under any circumstances be one of the sellers in that market. so if you want to acquire physical silver than the process will be no more complex for you. you will simply buy one of these claim checks on the market from someone other than me and then reimburse it at my nxt address. The people who deal with ordering silver shot and shipping it to my po box will be in a sense speculators trying to take advantage of arbitrage and for that service they will be affording me a level of legal protection.

one would think that since now there is a new middle man between me and the consumer that this would cause the price to be higher but i dont think this is necessarily the case because there is an advantage to be gained from outsourcing the acquisition of silver shot, a large group of people competing with each other to find cheaper supplies than the other will probably be much more effective at acquiring cheap silver shot than i could be on my own.

tell me what you guys think. ill post this in my silver bullion thread also so if you are seeing this message any later than say a half hour after it was posted than it will probably be better to reply to it there.

You are right about the fact that silver and other forms of worth are over regulated.

I hope your plan works out for you; as far as legality , I don't know..... I would keep very accurate and thorough records for sure...... and maybe stop using the laundry analogy

I know you're very interested in the whole process silver minting process, but have you considered engravable silver bars?

https://store.nwtmint.com/product_details/2204/Engravable_5_OZ_Silver_Pan_American_Bar/

[BrianNowhere]

Mmmmhhh, others have different opinions. But sick of your posts? 

See above reply.

[BrianNowhere]

opticalcarrier, no one is threatening BrianNowhere. BrianNowhere brings up some good points but throws FUD like " there's a lot of group-think over there" (here in this thread) and " the way the developers see it is that Nxt will only be the fuel used to trade in other currencies and therefore the value of Nxt can never go very high," BrianNowhere quoting CIYAM Open out of context possibly (or CIYAM Open being wrong about something)

I'm sorry you feel that way but the fact is that is exactly what was said to me by CIYAM OPEN. I am not taking him out of context and I'll dig out the quote if I have to. I also do think this thread lends itself to group-think and I'll say it again.

And more FUD from BrianNowhere, " I fail to see how generating one block (with 3 NXT) every 205 years will net me 1% annual interest." Nxt did not claim to offer 1% interest. Expecting a 1% return on 9 cents? Really?

This is another piece of conventional wisdom that is being spread around here and everywhere. Again I can produce examples if you insist on making me dig through old posts. I'm not just making things up.

This is a Nxt developer thread whose sole purpose is to shape the features of Nxt by interacting with the community. When this thread is derailed by FUD, productivity goes down.

Oh boo hoo. There's some FUD for you.

BrianNowhere offered to help find programmers for Nxt, but then immediately continues to spread FUD. Then BrianNowhere is upset when his FUD is rebutted. And now we have a wall of FUD over at Reddit about Nxt. No thanks BrianNowhere.

People here basically suggested I go away, so I did. I only notified people here of the post out of a sense of fair play in case anyone wanted to counter anything. I've tried to be polite about my concerns and opinions which I do have a right to.  I don't see what my offer to help find developers has to do with any of that.

EDIT: It is points like this, quoting BrianNowhere, "These (Nxt) developers need to realize that they need to compete by having better features and systems that work better than their competitors whether their competitors are centralized, decentralized or whatever. Decentralized and Open source and even "Greener" are weak selling points for the majority of people. " that illustrate the difficulty in unified marketing of Nxt.

I stand by my statement 100%

[BrianNowhere]

Damelon, I agree with you that open software development and addressing concerns are important.

However, when a statement like, "What's kept me from dumping all my Nxt in disgust over being "lied" to, was the fact the "switch" that I took the "bait" for was actually pretty compelling in itself." is made by BrianNowhere it shows derisiveness.

No one "lied" to BrianNowhere about Nxt. Nxt did not pull a "bait and switch". Those are "emotional intensifiers" and are not representative of the communications of the Nxt community.

Nxt is developing and has many compelling advantages over Bitcoin. Nxt is young and needs more development and input from testers and users. Nxt does not need inaccurate information maliciously spread about it.

On the reddit.com/r/Nxt page, in the right hand margin, written by a community member from these forums:

Nxt is an entire new ecosystem. All features are fully decentralized. It offers a 100% POS cryptocurrency with instant transactions, an alias system, arbitrary messages and an asset exchange.
Unlike traditional currencies such as dollars, Nxts are issued and managed without any central authority whatsoever: there is no government, company, or bank in charge of Nxt. As such, it is more resistant to wild inflation and corrupt banks. With Nxt, you can be your own bank.

I think I'm the one battling FUD now.

[chanc3r]

this can be mined now with scrypt gpus? What? How did this happen, and what kind of returns is this seeing?

please take a look at:
https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4399.0.html

two pools available:

http://hashrate.org/
http://www.p00l.org/

both pool are in beta phase.

EDIT: nxt pool mine sh*t coin and automatically exchange them for nxt, then the pool pay you with nxt.

I've pointed my KnC miner at it to see what happens
Think the pool stats are a bit variable but will be interesting to see what the pool can earn in NXT per Gh, I like the idea of mine and dump the crap to get NXT...

[NxtMinnow]

BN, Welcome to my Ignore List! The rest of the productive Nxt community, keep up the hard work, and press the Ignore button for Trolls.

wesleyh, thanks for updating your client today. Jean-Luc thanks for releasing NRS 0.8.11. intmain() welcome to the Nxt community; can't wait to see what you create on Nxt.

And Nxt has a mining pool or two (mining alts, paying in NXT! How cool is that?!?!

[jl777]

Anon136, your proposal sounds similar to the function of the "pawn ticket" for U.S. pawnshops. I don't know under what auspices they are not classified as securities, but in effect they operate as bearer bonds for the item(s) held by the pawn shops.

I think the reason it is not classified as a security is that the pawn shop/dry cleaners dont have a fiduciary duty to redeem. For instance, if their store burns down with your clothes, I doubt you can go to the dry cleaners afterwards for a refund. So, the claim checks are not secured by anything other than the business goodwill of the shop. Kind of like an unsecured loan.

Generally speaking securities tend to be fungible items, and usually pawn shop/dry cleaner claim checks are not for fungible items. The fact that you are using the claim check model for presumably fungible silver items is probably not going to make it a security, but maybe they will change the law because of you

James

oh well if thats the case than its easy. i wont promise to redeem anything. ill reserve the express right no not redeem anything you send me at any time for any reason. infact i wont even say the purpose of the token is to be redeemed for silver, if you do happen to send one to me, and it does happen to result in a silver bar being delivered to your door than that's pure happenstance. you guys can just decide for yourself whether you believe that sending me one of these tokens will happen to result in a silver bar arriving at your door.

It seems claim checks rely on common law, which probably predates all the securities regulations, I think they started after the 1929 crash.

"Bailment is a common law term which expressly provides that though possession of the asset has been transferred the ownership remains with the transferor"

Maybe the key thing is that ownership has not been transferred? I think if you own a security (like a stock) you actually own a piece of the company. Claim checks looks like they are a form of loan, all very confusing, you need to pay some lawyer lots of money to figure it all out

http://sachasingh.blogspot.com.ar/2009/04/securities-collaterals-and-guarantees.html

James

[NxtMinnow]

Marketing "Fast" is a successful Nxt marketing theme. I think my 47 second video could be made faster, creating a new Nxt testnet account, logging out and back in all in under 30 seconds. It is just one example of the "Instant" Functions of Nxt.     nxtra.org/nxtclient/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br4HEt_HbOY

[BrianNowhere]

opticalcarrier, no one is threatening BrianNowhere. BrianNowhere brings up some good points but throws FUD like " there's a lot of group-think over there" (here in this thread) and " the way the developers see it is that Nxt will only be the fuel used to trade in other currencies and therefore the value of Nxt can never go very high," BrianNowhere quoting CIYAM Open out of context possibly (or CIYAM Open being wrong about something)

Either no one thinks Nxt could ever be worth more than a few cents or someone has a lot of confidence in the ability for this community to adapt on the fly very quickly to market forces. Also everyone will have to update software everytime this takes place.

Updating software is something I think everyone has already adapted to (in fact most likely the majority of the software you are using "updates itself").

The value of NXT *can never be very high* as it is basically just *fuel* to run the engine. There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who just "don't get this" (perhaps because "greed" is blinding them to reality).

I think it would be a fair prediction that the price of NXT could be determined mathematically by the available supply along with the number of users and transactions.

Speculators should be looking to purchase Assets in order to "make big profits" and again the "fees" will be determined by the two main points I mentioned (if you make them too low then then network dies due to spamming and no incentive to forge and if you make them too high it dies due to competition with other such networks).

So - how low are the fees going to be?

It is a *competition* between Mastercoin, Bitshares, Ethereum and Nxt (you could call it a *race to the bottom*).

[BrianNowhere]

BN, Welcome to my Ignore List! The rest of the productive Nxt community, keep up the hard work, and press the Ignore button for Trolls.

wesleyh, thanks for updating your client today. Jean-Luc thanks for releasing NRS 0.8.11. intmain() welcome to the Nxt community; can't wait to see what you create on Nxt.

And Nxt has a mining pool or two (mining alts, paying in NXT! How cool is that?!?!

Well I guess you can't read this then, but if ignoring me is the way you respond to someone directly and verifiably disproving your incorrect assertions against them I'll go ahead and count my deprivation of your communication as an overall win.

[CIYAM]

My comments regarding "price" were not intended as "speculation" (but seemingly have been interpreted that way).

The market will decide "how much NXT is worth" and that value will be mostly determined because of the usefulness of the platform.

Perhaps people might consider "quoting this post" instead of the other but of course people are only going to quote what suits them.

[Anon136]

Anon136, your proposal sounds similar to the function of the "pawn ticket" for U.S. pawnshops. I don't know under what auspices they are not classified as securities, but in effect they operate as bearer bonds for the item(s) held by the pawn shops.

I think the reason it is not classified as a security is that the pawn shop/dry cleaners dont have a fiduciary duty to redeem. For instance, if their store burns down with your clothes, I doubt you can go to the dry cleaners afterwards for a refund. So, the claim checks are not secured by anything other than the business goodwill of the shop. Kind of like an unsecured loan.

Generally speaking securities tend to be fungible items, and usually pawn shop/dry cleaner claim checks are not for fungible items. The fact that you are using the claim check model for presumably fungible silver items is probably not going to make it a security, but maybe they will change the law because of you

James

oh well if thats the case than its easy. i wont promise to redeem anything. ill reserve the express right no not redeem anything you send me at any time for any reason. infact i wont even say the purpose of the token is to be redeemed for silver, if you do happen to send one to me, and it does happen to result in a silver bar being delivered to your door than that's pure happenstance. you guys can just decide for yourself whether you believe that sending me one of these tokens will happen to result in a silver bar arriving at your door.

It seems claim checks rely on common law, which probably predates all the securities regulations, I think they started after the 1929 crash.

"Bailment is a common law term which expressly provides that though possession of the asset has been transferred the ownership remains with the transferor"

Maybe the key thing is that ownership has not been transferred? I think if you own a security (like a stock) you actually own a piece of the company. Claim checks looks like they are a form of loan, all very confusing, you need to pay some lawyer lots of money to figure it all out

http://sachasingh.blogspot.com.ar/2009/04/securities-collaterals-and-guarantees.html

James

yes that is something i will do as soon as i make enough profit in the endeavor to fund it.

[BrianNowhere]

My comments regarding "price" were not intended as "speculation" (but seemingly have been interpreted that way).

The market will decide "how much NXT is worth" and that value will be mostly determined because of the usefulness of the platform.

Perhaps people might consider "quoting this post" instead of the other but of course people are only going to quote what suits them.

I don't really know any other way to interpret what you said. It's pretty clear if you ask me and if you feel I'm taking you out of context I'd love to be shown in what way.

Anyway, I think I've said enough on all of this. Anyone who doesn't get what I'm saying at this point is probably never going to get it. I'm glad I got it off my chest and now it's time to move along. Feel free to talk all the shit about me you want.

[NxtMinnow]

Upvote please at reddit,

New!!! New ALT Pools Payout in NXT!!!

http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/20vup4/new_alt_mining_pools_payout_in_nxt/

[jl777]

multigateway status

Finally got a chance to do some coding today. Started rewriting pretty much everything to use all the new lower level code and implementing fragmented multisig accts. I am also putting in queues all over the place to properly deal with waiting for enough confirmations, along with threads to be able to independently process things. When this version is done, supporting a new bitcoind fork is a matter of creating the following:

Code:

#define DOGE_COINID 1
#define DOGE_COINASSET "7761388364129412234"
#define DOGE_milliCOINASSET "6572437125760810791"
#define DOGE_microCOINASSET ""
#define DOGE_DAEMON "~/dogecoin/src/dogecoind"
#define DOGE_TXFEE 1.0000           // don't forget to match txfee with coin
#define DOGE_MIN_CONFIRMS 3

#define DRK_COINID 2
#define DRK_COINASSET "17096466694389279761"
#define DRK_milliCOINASSET "16905873901305658008"
#define DRK_microCOINASSET "11178018426996305671"
#define DRK_DAEMON "~/darkcoin/src/darkcoind"
#define DRK_TXFEE .0001             // don't forget to match txfee with coin
#define DRK_MIN_CONFIRMS 3

I think from this I will be able to generate all the coin specific functionality needed. Installing all the daemons will be the most time consuming part of adding support for a new coin.

The biggest change is that I am creating a separate multisig address for every NXT account. Instead of sweeping deposits from a temporary deposit address to giant shared acct, the address you will send to will be a custom multisig address and it wont need to be swept into a shared acct. This saves a txfee and also the time to when the funds are available to process withdrawals. Automatically creating a different multisig address was lots of fun, well maybe not so much.

The biggest advantage is that over time no deposit acct will be significantly larger than the average as I will be processing withdrawals to get the multisig accts as balanced as possible, within reason. There needs to be enough in the accounts to be able to handle most withdrawals, otherwise I will need to make multiple transactions to fulfill them. With the accounts becoming the average (total_deposits/total_depositors) I expect hackers wont bother to try to crack the accounts, especially since they would need to compromise two servers simultaneously. Also, before, there was a brief moment from when a deposit came in to when it was swept into the shared multisig, that it was a single point of failure. A compromised server would allow the attacker to intercept the sweep. Now every single transfer is multisig, so this risk is gone. Thanks to antanst for insisting on this!

I've got the deposit side mostly coded, but the withdraw side is going to be a bit tougher. I probably wont have a new release until early next week. Lots of new code to debug.

James