rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[sidhujag]

We all know dreams can become reality as evidence by mostly every famous person in the world today... its just about hard work and persistence.. so get off your ass and do something for bitcoin that will make everyones dream come to fruition.. we are a team and as a team we will succeed or fail, but succeeding is more likely as a team... Nash told us that and its proved to be quite true. Instead of talking about it.. do somethign about it..

[NotLambchop]

I think that most here don't understand the bitcoin price cycle vs bitcoin mining cycle. There are too many bitcoin miners, including industrial size, which mostly liquidate mined bitcoins. If situation of 2011 was to repeat itself, bitcoin price will have to move low enough for a crash in network mining capability (which is still increasing as we speak at a brisk 20% rate every 12 days even with this crash). Only if and when network hashing stabilizes or reduces about ~50% (as in 2011), the new bull market will ensue. Prediction: it will happen in the next 2-4 mo, but the price might have to go much lower first (exact repeat of 2011 will mean ~$72/BTC).
Personally, I stopped buying mining equipment already.

The noobs here don't understand that mining is irrelevant for price. It is the preference to hold more or hold less, that makes the price. You have yesterdays price and other peoples valuations, there is nothing that connects bitcoin value to eartly stuff. Deal with it.

So what is the *real* thing that give the value to bitcoin   ?

Bitcoin is backed by dreams.

Whereas the US dollar is backed by the american dream!

No.  The USD is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.  As are my deposits in real banks, which are insured by the FDIC for at least $250,000.



...unlike Bitcoin banks: NeoBee (lol ran), TradeFortress (lol ran), and Ukyo (lol ran), which, unfortunately, are not

[Biodom]

Most people don't realise yet that bitcoin is one of the few chances out of stagnation for them.
Even with official inflation statistics, US has roughly the same median family income as ~40 years ago (50K in 1973, 52K in 2014).
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2014/demo/p60-249.pdf
In the last 6 years (2007-2013) median family income actually declined from 56.4K to 51.9K
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/encore/2014/10/02/incomes-are-much-lower-than-you-think/
Incredibly, just 10% have income>150K.

[BrewCrewFan]

"Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself — and I will obey every law or submit to the penalty"

-- Chief Joseph (1840-1904) of the Nez Perce Indians, in his speech at Lincoln Hall in Washington, DC on 14 January 1879.

Dude so funny, my 5th grader for social studies picked this tribe to talk about and research!

[bassclef]

No.  The USD is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.  As are my deposits in real banks, which are insured by the FDIC for at least $250,000.



...unlike Bitcoin banks: NeoBee (lol ran), TradeFortress (lol ran), and Ukyo (lol ran), which, unfortunately, are not

So in the event that multiple banks get wiped out again, how do they pay for it? Is there a fund with cash in the bank?

Do any of our alphabet agencies actually have reserves? No they do not. Just look at Social Security--it's a bunch of IOUs.

[BrewCrewFan]

I think that most here don't understand the bitcoin price cycle vs bitcoin mining cycle. There are too many bitcoin miners, including industrial size, which mostly liquidate mined bitcoins. If situation of 2011 was to repeat itself, bitcoin price will have to move low enough for a crash in network mining capability (which is still increasing as we speak at a brisk 20% rate every 12 days even with this crash). Only if and when network hashing stabilizes or reduces about ~50% (as in 2011), the new bull market will ensue. Prediction: it will happen in the next 2-4 mo, but the price might have to go much lower first (exact repeat of 2011 will mean ~$72/BTC).
Personally, I stopped buying mining equipment already.

The noobs here don't understand that mining is irrelevant for price. It is the preference to hold more or hold less, that makes the price. You have yesterdays price and other peoples valuations, there is nothing that connects bitcoin value to eartly stuff. Deal with it.

So what is the *real* thing that give the value to bitcoin   ?

Bitcoin is backed by dreams.

Whereas the US dollar is backed by the american dream!

No.  The USD is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.  As are my deposits in real banks, which are insured by the FDIC for at least $250,000.



...unlike Bitcoin banks: NeoBee (lol ran), TradeFortress (lol ran), and Ukyo (lol ran), which, unfortunately, are not

Yeah, so like, what gives the value to the USD? The paper its printed on cost about 3 cents.

[donut]

No.  The USD is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.  As are my deposits in real banks, which are insured by the FDIC for at least $250,000.



...unlike Bitcoin banks: NeoBee (lol ran), TradeFortress (lol ran), and Ukyo (lol ran), which, unfortunately, are not

So in the event that multiple banks get wiped out again, how do they pay for it? Is there a fund with cash in the bank?

Do any of our alphabet agencies actually have reserves? No they do not. Just look at Social Security--it's a bunch of IOUs.

It's worse.

[NotLambchop]

Most people don't realise yet that bitcoin is one of the few chances out of stagnation for them.
Even with official inflation statistics, US has roughly the same median family income as ~40 years ago (50K in 1973, 52K in 2014).
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2014/demo/p60-249.pdf
In the last 6 years (2007-2013) median family income actually declined from 56.4K to 51.9K
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/encore/2014/10/02/incomes-are-much-lower-than-you-think/
Incredibly, just 10% have income>150K.

To put this into Bitcoin-relevant perspective:
If today's average income family had invested their average income in Bitcoin at the start of this year, they would no longer be an average income family.  They would be living out of a cardboard box.
If the breadwinners didn't get fired a long time ago due to transportation problems--gas stations don't take Bitcoin.
Of course, this is all predicated on the whole family not starving to death--the supermarkets don't either.

[NotLambchop]

...
Whereas the US dollar is backed by the american dream!

No.  The USD is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.  As are my deposits in real banks, which are insured by the FDIC for at least $250,000.



...unlike Bitcoin banks: NeoBee (lol ran), TradeFortress (lol ran), and Ukyo (lol ran), which, unfortunately, are not

Yeah, so like, what gives the value to the USD? The paper its printed on cost about 3 cents.

Dood, can't u read?
And BTC isn't even printed on three pennies worth of paper, so there's that

[NotLambchop]

No.  The USD is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.  As are my deposits in real banks, which are insured by the FDIC for at least $250,000.



...unlike Bitcoin banks: NeoBee (lol ran), TradeFortress (lol ran), and Ukyo (lol ran), which, unfortunately, are not

So in the event that multiple banks get wiped out again, how do they pay for it? Is there a fund with cash in the bank?

Do any of our alphabet agencies actually have reserves? No they do not. Just look at Social Security--it's a bunch of IOUs.

Reserves of what?  You lunatics think fiat is printed at will anyhow, so they'll just add a few zeros to the plates and keep the presses running longer, amirite?

[BrewCrewFan]

...
Whereas the US dollar is backed by the american dream!

No.  The USD is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.  As are my deposits in real banks, which are insured by the FDIC for at least $250,000.



...unlike Bitcoin banks: NeoBee (lol ran), TradeFortress (lol ran), and Ukyo (lol ran), which, unfortunately, are not

Yeah, so like, what gives the value to the USD? The paper its printed on cost about 3 cents.

Dood, can't u read?
And BTC isn't even printed on three pennies worth of paper, so there's that

The red makes it easier to spot.

But really, what can faith buy me in the real world?

[NotLambchop]

Faith can't buy you anything in the real world.
"Full faith and credit of the US government," of course, has little to do with faith.  It's sort'a a complicated thing, you can start learning about it here[/iur]

Hope this helps.

[brg444]

You lunatics think fiat is printed at will anyhow, so they'll just add a few zeros to the plates and keep the presses running longer, amirite?

Is it not?

[Bitcopia]

You lunatics think fiat is printed at will anyhow, so they'll just add a few zeros to the plates and keep the presses running longer, amirite?

Is it not?

I believe it is printed based on the ideas of Keynesian economics blended with a heaping dose of greed and just a pinch of rational thought and consideration for the future.

But if you want to get into a semantics game about what "at will" means and how it applies to the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury, I will resist the alluring waste of time.

[NotLambchop]

^Such venom
Remember, greed is good!  The bankster scions inherited their uncountable riches from their august predecessors, who have, in turn, acquired those in the unregulated free markets of yesteryear.

[sgbett]

You lunatics think fiat is printed at will anyhow, so they'll just add a few zeros to the plates and keep the presses running longer, amirite?

Is it not?

I believe it is printed based on the ideas of Keynesian economics blended with a heaping dose of greed and just a pinch of rational thought and consideration for the future.

But if you want to get into a semantics game about what "at will" means and how it applies to the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury, I will resist the alluring waste of time.

Its printed because it has to be, because its the only way to keep things going. I think there is less malice behind QE than people might think. I believe that they are printing money because they have very little choice in the matter. I don't think *anyone* wants the dollar to fail, I'm just not sure that it can really be avoided. Running the presses has to happen so that the actual money supply can keep up with the electronic money that has been 'created' through interest payments, thats about as simple as it gets. Everything else is just complexity that masks that fundamental property of a system based on debt.

[Bitcopia]

You lunatics think fiat is printed at will anyhow, so they'll just add a few zeros to the plates and keep the presses running longer, amirite?

Is it not?

I believe it is printed based on the ideas of Keynesian economics blended with a heaping dose of greed and just a pinch of rational thought and consideration for the future.

But if you want to get into a semantics game about what "at will" means and how it applies to the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury, I will resist the alluring waste of time.

Its printed because it has to be, because its the only way to keep things going. I think there is less malice behind QE than people might think. I believe that they are printing money because they have very little choice in the matter. I don't think *anyone* wants the dollar to fail, I'm just not sure that it can really be avoided. Running the presses has to happen so that the actual money supply can keep up with the electronic money that has been 'created' through interest payments, thats about as simple as it gets. Everything else is just complexity that masks that fundamental property of a system based on debt.

I agree. It's just that the debt-based system of buying bonds from the U.S. Treasury on a zero balance is a bit too inherently greedy for my taste. Whether on not that process can be amended without an economic meltdown is a different question. Probably not, so we might as well let the process work itself out.

[JayJuanGee]

Most people don't realise yet that bitcoin is one of the few chances out of stagnation for them.
Even with official inflation statistics, US has roughly the same median family income as ~40 years ago (50K in 1973, 52K in 2014).
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2014/demo/p60-249.pdf
In the last 6 years (2007-2013) median family income actually declined from 56.4K to 51.9K
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/encore/2014/10/02/incomes-are-much-lower-than-you-think/
Incredibly, just 10% have income>150K.

To put this into Bitcoin-relevant perspective:
If today's average income family had invested their average income in Bitcoin at the start of this year, they would no longer be an average income family.  They would be living out of a cardboard box.
If the breadwinners didn't get fired a long time ago due to transportation problems--gas stations don't take Bitcoin.
Of course, this is all predicated on the whole family not starving to death--the supermarkets don't either.

That's why no one should be so fucking stupid as to put all of their money into a volatile asset (especially after it had just appreciated over 1000x over the previous years).

Also, we do NOT assess the likely future price performance of any asset merely from the point of its previous ATH peak.. and make a judgement regarding its overall likelihood of success (in terms of future price performance) based on that selective snapshot.

Can you at least attempt to be less selective (and predetermined) with your factual presentation(s) and/or the speculations you make based on such?

[JayJuanGee]

...
Whereas the US dollar is backed by the american dream!

No.  The USD is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.  As are my deposits in real banks, which are insured by the FDIC for at least $250,000.



...unlike Bitcoin banks: NeoBee (lol ran), TradeFortress (lol ran), and Ukyo (lol ran), which, unfortunately, are not

Yeah, so like, what gives the value to the USD? The paper its printed on cost about 3 cents.

Dood, can't u read?
And BTC isn't even printed on three pennies worth of paper, so there's that

There's NOTHING wrong with you deciding to invest in dollars, if that is what you want to do.  However, why do you feel that it is worth your time to be attempting to convince others of such investment direction forward?

[BrewCrewFan]

By now I think its safe to say the crash is over temporarily. Lets see if it goes up above 400.

Recovery is beingslow and so looks more positive than a sudden jump and crash back.

Slow and steady on the way up I much rather have than a sudden jump... the slow one makes it seem much more of a healthy growth in price in my eyes.