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Author Topic: [CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers  (Read 829313 times)
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eleuthria
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January 02, 2014, 03:24:11 AM
 #5221

Can someone show me the math on how to calculate the fee's I'm paying here? I know it is %3, but I want to know how much I've actually given to The Guild over the amount of time I have been here. Of course it isn't one of our charts.

Total Earnings / 0.97 = Amount you've made before fees.  Difference is the fee.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 02, 2014, 05:33:54 AM
 #5222

Can someone show me the math on how to calculate the fee's I'm paying here? I know it is %3, but I want to know how much I've actually given to The Guild over the amount of time I have been here. Of course it isn't one of our charts.

Total Earnings / 0.97 = Amount you've made before fees.  Difference is the fee.

I was looking for that difference I guess. When I see 1 bitcoin in my dashboard does that mean you already have .3 of it?



Ok, that's easy enough. And the pool operator gets %3 of every block we find which is 25 BTC at the moment. That is approx $18k USD. Operator brings in about $540 for every block and how many blocks does the pool solve in a day? Trust me, not good at math at all, am I correct in trying to figure out how much the pool owner makes? Let's say it takes 10 minutes to solve each block, (usually is 4 minutes) but giving a big buffer here. So 6 blocks solved each hour, 6*24 = 144 blocks solved each day. 144 * $540 = $77k. I must be doing something wrong. Can a math genius help on this? I'm just curious to know how much a pool operator makes if %3 is the cut. I'm only asking here cause I mine on this pool and there is a fee. I probably fumbled the math big time, so I do apologize if it is not correct. I do expect it to be wrong, cause $77k seems way too high.

Thank you





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January 02, 2014, 05:45:55 AM
 #5223

Can someone show me the math on how to calculate the fee's I'm paying here? I know it is %3, but I want to know how much I've actually given to The Guild over the amount of time I have been here. Of course it isn't one of our charts.

Total Earnings / 0.97 = Amount you've made before fees.  Difference is the fee.

I was looking for that difference I guess. When I see 1 bitcoin in my dashboard does that mean you already have .3 of it?



Ok, that's easy enough. And the pool operator gets %3 of every block we find which is 25 BTC at the moment. That is approx $18k USD. Operator brings in about $540 for every block and how many blocks does the pool solve in a day? Trust me, not good at math at all, am I correct in trying to figure out how much the pool owner makes? Let's say it takes 10 minutes to solve each block, (usually is 4 minutes) but giving a big buffer here. So 6 blocks solved each hour, 6*24 = 144 blocks solved each day. 144 * $540 = $77k. I must be doing something wrong. Can a math genius help on this? I'm just curious to know how much a pool operator makes if %3 is the cut. I'm only asking here cause I mine on this pool and there is a fee. I probably fumbled the math big time, so I do apologize if it is not correct. I do expect it to be wrong, cause $77k seems way too high.

Thank you
If you have earned 1 BTC, then I have made 0.03 BTC(ish, orphans screw that up a little since I pay you for those and end up losing a block worth of coins).  So you're off by a factor of 10 there.

The entire network solves 144 blocks a day, not BTC Guild.  BTC Guild is only about 25% of the network.  Additionally, BTC Guild pays orphans which means while I keep 3% of each block, about 1% ends up going back to the users when the pool has an orphaned block.   When the network is growing, it's a bit more than 144 blocks/day.  BTC Guild has to grow at the same percentage as the network in order to maintain a 25% share.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 02, 2014, 05:47:29 AM
 #5224

Can someone show me the math on how to calculate the fee's I'm paying here? I know it is %3, but I want to know how much I've actually given to The Guild over the amount of time I have been here. Of course it isn't one of our charts.

Total Earnings / 0.97 = Amount you've made before fees.  Difference is the fee.

I was looking for that difference I guess. When I see 1 bitcoin in my dashboard does that mean you already have .3 of it?



Ok, that's easy enough. And the pool operator gets %3 of every block we find which is 25 BTC at the moment. That is approx $18k USD. Operator brings in about $540 for every block and how many blocks does the pool solve in a day? Trust me, not good at math at all, am I correct in trying to figure out how much the pool owner makes? Let's say it takes 10 minutes to solve each block, (usually is 4 minutes) but giving a big buffer here. So 6 blocks solved each hour, 6*24 = 144 blocks solved each day. 144 * $540 = $77k. I must be doing something wrong. Can a math genius help on this? I'm just curious to know how much a pool operator makes if %3 is the cut. I'm only asking here cause I mine on this pool and there is a fee. I probably fumbled the math big time, so I do apologize if it is not correct. I do expect it to be wrong, cause $77k seems way too high.

Thank you






6 blocks each hour is for the whole network.
For the pool only just calculate 3% out of the total pool speed = 3% * 2700TH/s = 80TH/s
So 80TH/s is around 28 btc per day at current difficulty. But because there are people using PPS, it is more than 30btc a day.
Now imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago. Probably around 50btc a day Wink

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January 02, 2014, 05:49:30 AM
 #5225

6 blocks each hour is for the whole network.
For the pool only just calculate 3% out of the total pool speed = 3% * 2700TH/s = 80TH/s
So 80TH/s is around 28 btc per day at current difficulty. But because there are people using PPS, it is more than 30btc a day.
Now imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago. Probably around 50btc a day Wink

Subtract 1% from the 3% fee for orphaned blocks, which are roughly 1 in 100 blocks.  And PPS is barely over 10% of the pool now.


And don't "imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago", because BTC Guild was not 2700 TH/s 2 retargets ago.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 02, 2014, 05:55:40 AM
 #5226

6 blocks each hour is for the whole network.
For the pool only just calculate 3% out of the total pool speed = 3% * 2700TH/s = 80TH/s
So 80TH/s is around 28 btc per day at current difficulty. But because there are people using PPS, it is more than 30btc a day.
Now imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago. Probably around 50btc a day Wink

Subtract 1% from the 3% fee for orphaned blocks, which are roughly 1 in 100 blocks.  And PPS is barely over 10% of the pool now.


And don't "imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago", because BTC Guild was not 2700 TH/s 2 retargets ago.
Why so many orphaned? I can only compare to Bitminter, but they have only 3 for the past 1600+ blocks. Having an orphaned block is pure luck and not related to hashing speed, right?

What was BTCGuild speed 2 retargets ago?

If this post helped you and you feel generous you know what to do: 1P9tXFy9bVgzrfPGeV7F8np26ZtFdCCWvz
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January 02, 2014, 06:06:42 AM
 #5227

6 blocks each hour is for the whole network.
For the pool only just calculate 3% out of the total pool speed = 3% * 2700TH/s = 80TH/s
So 80TH/s is around 28 btc per day at current difficulty. But because there are people using PPS, it is more than 30btc a day.
Now imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago. Probably around 50btc a day Wink

Subtract 1% from the 3% fee for orphaned blocks, which are roughly 1 in 100 blocks.  And PPS is barely over 10% of the pool now.


And don't "imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago", because BTC Guild was not 2700 TH/s 2 retargets ago.
Why so many orphaned? I can only compare to Bitminter, but they have only 3 for the past 1600+ blocks. Having an orphaned block is pure luck and not related to hashing speed, right?

What was BTCGuild speed 2 retargets ago?

BitMinter has had way more than 3 in the last 1600.  I'm curious now what they use to differentiate between "stale" and "orphan" considering those mean the same thing when it comes to blocks.  They've had 3 stale+orphan in the last 100, 5 in the last 200, 7 in the last 300.

Smaller pools will have more orphans than larger ones purely because they're less likely to be able to confirm their own orphaned block than a large pool.  It's also very common to see random events (1 in 100) show up in clusters, meaning a small sample size can show a much larger (like the 3/100, 5/200, 7/300), or smaller (0/300) occurrence just due to the distribution of random events.


UPDATE:  Guild has had 4 orphans in its last 600 blocks, 7 in the last 850.  That's not far off from the approximation of 1%, which is what has been estimated by most pools for years.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 02, 2014, 02:36:28 PM
 #5228

6 blocks each hour is for the whole network.
For the pool only just calculate 3% out of the total pool speed = 3% * 2700TH/s = 80TH/s
So 80TH/s is around 28 btc per day at current difficulty. But because there are people using PPS, it is more than 30btc a day.
Now imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago. Probably around 50btc a day Wink

Subtract 1% from the 3% fee for orphaned blocks, which are roughly 1 in 100 blocks.  And PPS is barely over 10% of the pool now.


And don't "imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago", because BTC Guild was not 2700 TH/s 2 retargets ago.
Why so many orphaned? I can only compare to Bitminter, but they have only 3 for the past 1600+ blocks. Having an orphaned block is pure luck and not related to hashing speed, right?

What was BTCGuild speed 2 retargets ago?

BitMinter has had way more than 3 in the last 1600.  I'm curious now what they use to differentiate between "stale" and "orphan" considering those mean the same thing when it comes to blocks.  They've had 3 stale+orphan in the last 100, 5 in the last 200, 7 in the last 300.

Smaller pools will have more orphans than larger ones purely because they're less likely to be able to confirm their own orphaned block than a large pool.  It's also very common to see random events (1 in 100) show up in clusters, meaning a small sample size can show a much larger (like the 3/100, 5/200, 7/300), or smaller (0/300) occurrence just due to the distribution of random events.


UPDATE:  Guild has had 4 orphans in its last 600 blocks, 7 in the last 850.  That's not far off from the approximation of 1%, which is what has been estimated by most pools for years.

Bitminter differentiates and pays out Orphaned blocks only. They only 3 for the last 1600 blocks. They never pay for Stale blocks.
According to http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/ this is the difference: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5859/what-are-orphaned-and-stale-blocks

So does BTCGuild pay for Stale + Orphaned?

And in regards to pool income as of today:
90% PPLNS = ~32BTC a day
10% PPS = ~9BTC a day
minus orphaned blocks
= ~40btc a day




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January 02, 2014, 03:03:11 PM
 #5229

And in regards to pool income as of today:
90% PPLNS = ~32BTC a day
10% PPS = ~9BTC a day
minus orphaned blocks
= ~40btc a day

And your point is what exactly?

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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January 02, 2014, 03:30:04 PM
 #5230

And in regards to pool income as of today:
90% PPLNS = ~32BTC a day
10% PPS = ~9BTC a day
minus orphaned blocks
= ~40btc a day

And your point is what exactly?

To answer opentoe a few posts back, who was interested on how much the pool owner makes.


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January 02, 2014, 03:43:12 PM
 #5231

And in regards to pool income as of today:
90% PPLNS = ~32BTC a day
10% PPS = ~9BTC a day
minus orphaned blocks
= ~40btc a day

And your point is what exactly?

To answer opentoe a few posts back, who was interested on how much the pool owner makes.



Ah, that wasn't completely clear from the context of what you had quoted.  Now it is.
Sam

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
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A: Top-posting.
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January 02, 2014, 05:47:11 PM
 #5232

happy new year!


unimportant question:
what about

(pps(-fee) + pplns(-fee)) / 2

i would use it.


// i do understand that there are a lot of more urgent stuff to do,
// i´m just asking.
// thx for the service!

This is actually doable on your own currently.  Make two workers, one for PPLNS, one for PPS.  Then when you setup your miner (cgminer/bfgminer), set up two pools for BTC Guild.  Setup one for the first worker, one for the second worker.  Set the management strategy to 'load balance'.  This will end up splitting your shares 50/50 between PPLNS and PPS.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 02, 2014, 09:46:05 PM
 #5233

thx!

i will try this out.

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January 02, 2014, 10:59:22 PM
 #5234

6 blocks each hour is for the whole network.
For the pool only just calculate 3% out of the total pool speed = 3% * 2700TH/s = 80TH/s
So 80TH/s is around 28 btc per day at current difficulty. But because there are people using PPS, it is more than 30btc a day.
Now imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago. Probably around 50btc a day Wink

Subtract 1% from the 3% fee for orphaned blocks, which are roughly 1 in 100 blocks.  And PPS is barely over 10% of the pool now.


And don't "imagine what it was 2 difficulty retargets ago", because BTC Guild was not 2700 TH/s 2 retargets ago.
Why so many orphaned? I can only compare to Bitminter, but they have only 3 for the past 1600+ blocks. Having an orphaned block is pure luck and not related to hashing speed, right?

What was BTCGuild speed 2 retargets ago?

BitMinter has had way more than 3 in the last 1600.  I'm curious now what they use to differentiate between "stale" and "orphan" considering those mean the same thing when it comes to blocks.  They've had 3 stale+orphan in the last 100, 5 in the last 200, 7 in the last 300.

Smaller pools will have more orphans than larger ones purely because they're less likely to be able to confirm their own orphaned block than a large pool.  It's also very common to see random events (1 in 100) show up in clusters, meaning a small sample size can show a much larger (like the 3/100, 5/200, 7/300), or smaller (0/300) occurrence just due to the distribution of random events.


UPDATE:  Guild has had 4 orphans in its last 600 blocks, 7 in the last 850.  That's not far off from the approximation of 1%, which is what has been estimated by most pools for years.

Bitminter differentiates and pays out Orphaned blocks only. They only 3 for the last 1600 blocks. They never pay for Stale blocks.
According to http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/ this is the difference: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5859/what-are-orphaned-and-stale-blocks

So does BTCGuild pay for Stale + Orphaned?

And in regards to pool income as of today:
90% PPLNS = ~32BTC a day
10% PPS = ~9BTC a day
minus orphaned blocks
= ~40btc a day

Yeah that is awesome, it's great to see an entrepreneur who started several years ago getting the return on his investment. He has put in all that time and carried the risk, this is capitalism and a free market at it's best. People can mine wherever they want based off their needs for compensation. Whatever they feel is fair. If you're worried about how much he makes, you're not looking at the big picture. It takes a lot to run a pool, it's a business, it has expenses, taxes, legal retainers, all kinds of things you don't get to see behind the scenes. Plus you need to plan and save for growth, emergencies, contingencies, security. It all adds up, does he make a lot, sure, but I'm sure it's well deserved. At the end of the day I'll bet a good portion is going back into keeping things running. You want him to have a large reserve, it means he can weather the storm.
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January 02, 2014, 11:10:00 PM
 #5235

Yeah that is awesome, it's great to see an entrepreneur who started several years ago getting the return on his investment. He has put in all that time and carried the risk, this is capitalism and a free market at it's best. People can mine wherever they want based off their needs for compensation. Whatever they feel is fair. If you're worried about how much he makes, you're not looking at the big picture. It takes a lot to run a pool, it's a business, it has expenses, taxes, legal retainers, all kinds of things you don't get to see behind the scenes. Plus you need to plan and save for growth, emergencies, contingencies, security. It all adds up, does he make a lot, sure, but I'm sure it's well deserved. At the end of the day I'll bet a good portion is going back into keeping things running. You want him to have a large reserve, it means he can weather the storm.

And his calculation was on one of the luckier days.  If he did the same calculation today he'd see I've *lost* money since last night.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 02, 2014, 11:15:39 PM
 #5236

Yeah that is awesome, it's great to see an entrepreneur who started several years ago getting the return on his investment. He has put in all that time and carried the risk, this is capitalism and a free market at it's best. People can mine wherever they want based off their needs for compensation. Whatever they feel is fair. If you're worried about how much he makes, you're not looking at the big picture. It takes a lot to run a pool, it's a business, it has expenses, taxes, legal retainers, all kinds of things you don't get to see behind the scenes. Plus you need to plan and save for growth, emergencies, contingencies, security. It all adds up, does he make a lot, sure, but I'm sure it's well deserved. At the end of the day I'll bet a good portion is going back into keeping things running. You want him to have a large reserve, it means he can weather the storm.

And his calculation was on one of the luckier days.  If he did the same calculation today he'd see I've *lost* money since last night.

My calculation is very rough and only based on the total hash rate of the pool, which is again a rough figure. I used a general income calculator, which assumes 100% luck.
I guess I am not very far off from the actual income, which in anyone's eyes look amazing, so congrats on that  Wink

May I ask again about the orphaned blocks. How is BTCGuild defining these in comparison to Bitminter? Do you have 2 categories or just 1? And you pay for all of them?

Thank you.

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January 02, 2014, 11:20:39 PM
 #5237

Is everything working OK?  My stats page shows no blocks found for the last six shifts so nothing earned for a while now, just making sure this is correct.
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January 02, 2014, 11:35:36 PM
 #5238

Is everything working OK?  My stats page shows no blocks found for the last six shifts so nothing earned for a while now, just making sure this is correct.

It was a 4 hour block.  Not common, but nothing wrong with it.


Yeah that is awesome, it's great to see an entrepreneur who started several years ago getting the return on his investment. He has put in all that time and carried the risk, this is capitalism and a free market at it's best. People can mine wherever they want based off their needs for compensation. Whatever they feel is fair. If you're worried about how much he makes, you're not looking at the big picture. It takes a lot to run a pool, it's a business, it has expenses, taxes, legal retainers, all kinds of things you don't get to see behind the scenes. Plus you need to plan and save for growth, emergencies, contingencies, security. It all adds up, does he make a lot, sure, but I'm sure it's well deserved. At the end of the day I'll bet a good portion is going back into keeping things running. You want him to have a large reserve, it means he can weather the storm.

And his calculation was on one of the luckier days.  If he did the same calculation today he'd see I've *lost* money since last night.

My calculation is very rough and only based on the total hash rate of the pool, which is again a rough figure. I used a general income calculator, which assumes 100% luck.
I guess I am not very far off from the actual income, which in anyone's eyes look amazing, so congrats on that  Wink

May I ask again about the orphaned blocks. How is BTCGuild defining these in comparison to Bitminter? Do you have 2 categories or just 1? And you pay for all of them?

Thank you.

BTC Guild pays all orphaned blocks.  There is no difference between a stale block and an orphan block.  To the miner they're the same thing.  In both cases, the pool was not working on the dominant blockchain.  In both cases it was due to the pool not being aware of another block on the network at that same time.  You could argue an orphan might be slightly different because another pool might submit one after yours and that one ends up being dominant.  However, for a MINER, it shouldn't matter.  In both cases the pool solved a block and the miner should have been paid.  A "stale" block is just a sign of a poorly configured pool, and the pool mining a "stale" block is just as bad as an orphan in terms of lost income.

If you didn't use the pool's actual 24 hours for your numbers, you're WAY off, by nearly a factor of 2.  144 blocks * 25% = 36 blocks/day expected, which is 900 BTC.  90% of that is PPLNS and 10% is PPS (rough numbers), or 810 / 90.  810 x 2% (accounting for orphans) = 16.2 BTC.   90 x 6.5% (accounting for orphans) = 5.85.  Meaning if the pool is functioning normally, at perfectly neutral luck, it's ~22 BTC.  I did not include tx fees the pool collects because those are not a noticeable increase, and those are shared with miners.  Additionally, the pool *pays* transaction fees for all payouts which is not included.  Right now the numbers are a bit higher due to network growth.  If you want to factor that in, add an extra 20% or so.  Of course that assumes that the pool grows in unison with the overall network.

A percentage of that income is also required to be set aside as a buffer for bad luck (PPS), as well as the chance of a security breach, because unlike some pools *cough*50BTC*cough*, BTC Guild will actually honor its debts in the event of a compromise.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 03, 2014, 01:09:58 AM
 #5239

In the last month or so I've noticed the stats page is getting heavier and heavier. It's now to the point that I feel the slow down on my computer and to make things worse my iphone safari is now starting to freeze and crash. I've tried two different iphones and it is the same result. Clearing caches etc make things better on iphone for a few minutes, maybe an hour but it starts slowing down again to crashing point.

So the question is, am I mining bitcoin when I'm on stats page?

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January 03, 2014, 01:20:26 AM
 #5240

In the last month or so I've noticed the stats page is getting heavier and heavier. It's now to the point that I feel the slow down on my computer and to make things worse my iphone safari is now starting to freeze and crash. I've tried two different iphones and it is the same result. Clearing caches etc make things better on iphone for a few minutes, maybe an hour but it starts slowing down again to crashing point.

So the question is, am I mining bitcoin when I'm on stats page?

Which stats page?  The PPLNS Stats page can be a bit load heavy due to the Luck Graph and 210 shifts of dat being loaded.  The Shift Detail view of PPLNS Stats is extremely heavy on the browser due to having over 11,000 rows (full shift breakdown by user) in the table that's being loaded then being paginated via JavaScript.

Dashboard and Pool Stats haven't changed and shouldn't be causing you any kind of unusual load times.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
BTC Guild Forum Thread
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