Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia.

[keymone2]

That's not "truly Russian way of thinking" that's a typical way of thinking everywhere on this world .
Sometimes it's about the slavic world, sometimes it's about the democratic values of the west, sometimes about the bloody pump and dumpers on BTC-e . Welcome to this world mate .

i know it's the real world, but do you think it's the way things should be?

also props for dodging the whole "russian media lies about ballistic missiles used by ukrainian army and uses baikonur rocket crash as a proof" issue

[Snail2]

i know it's the real world, but do you think it's the way things should be?
also props for dodging the whole "russian media lies about ballistic missiles used by ukrainian army and uses baikonur rocket crash as a proof" issue

I guess the first humans who got off the tree blamed the mud, the other hunters and the Chinese cudgel factories when they missed a mammoth . So nothing new, and I think this is something what never will change.

This is not the first media hack in history.

[keymone2]

I guess the first humans who got off the tree blamed the mud, the other hunters and the Chinese cudgel factories when they missed a mammoth . So nothing new, and I think this is something what never will change.

This is not the first media hack in history.

"This is not the first media hack in history." is this your way of saying "yeah, that bit was russian propaganda, so what? that happens.." ?

[chopstick]

"Post fakes & find out the truth a bit later" is a typical maidan-troll behavior template. Almost all of their "online projects" like censor.net.ua, stopfake.org and many others are constantly doing these crappy things. I even sure that keymone2 & chopstick are two sides of the same person.

I'm just your average american bitcoiner who is very tired of what I see as american/western imperialist incursions into other countries. Call me crazy, I don't care, but I do believe that 9/11 was a false flag and that MH17 was similarly a false flag scenario.

I never said the separatists were saints, but if you were to believe the MSM over here or keymone2, there are no actual Ukrainians among the militia.. it's all Russian Terrorists (lolz), Russia is responsible for all the civilian deaths, Russia shot down MH17 with a Buk and the new Ukraine government are all heroes who deserve to be in power (as opposed to puppets who take orders from the West.)

Anyway, it's all horseshit, so I post what I see as credible up to date evidence of what is actually going on.

In fact, most of what I post are simply youtube videos showing the atrocity... vids of white phosphorus and artillery killing civilians, and the occasional military updates.

In my opinion, the US wants Russia to invade Ukraine so they can get NATO involved and escalate further.

So far, Russia ain't takin the bait.

Militia forces are composed of 19-23k Soldiers, current active Ukraine army forces are something like 48-52k. But the militia is holding their own pretty well despite being heavily outnumbered.

Russia could swoop in and end the whole thing in a week, but they are not.

[Snail2]

"This is not the first media hack in history." is this your way of saying "yeah, that bit was russian propaganda, so what? that happens.." ?

No. I'm saying they missed to check their sources and the information itself before released the news. Are you saying that Jen Psaki blatantly lied and spread Ukrainian propaganda when she placed Astrakhan next to the Ukrainian border ?

[chopstick]

You have an illegitimate coup government headed by a Billionaire oligarch who clearly does not give one single fuck  about the civilians in  East Ukraine.

There is gas there to be exploited and the civilians there do not need to be there. In fact, the current shelling campaigns seem almost designed to terrorize the populations there and purposely drive them out. What is the official count of refugees that have fled to Russia? Something like 300-400k? Maybe more?

They already installed Fracking locations in slavyansk for fucks sake, and this war isnt even over yet.

[keymone2]

I'm just your average american bitcoiner who is very tired of what I see as american/western imperialist incursions into other countries. Call me crazy, I don't care, but I do believe that 9/11 was a false flag and that MH17 was similarly a false flag scenario.

I never said the separatists were saints, but if you were to believe the MSM over here or keymone2, there are no actual Ukrainians among the militia.. it's all Russian Terrorists (lolz), Russia is responsible for all the civilian deaths, Russia shot down MH17 with a Buk and the new Ukraine government are all heroes who deserve to be in power (as opposed to puppets who take orders from the West.)

Anyway, it's all horseshit, so I post what I see as credible up to date evidence of what is actually going on.

In fact, most of what I post are simply youtube videos showing the atrocity... vids of white phosphorus and artillery killing civilians, and the occasional military updates.

In my opinion, the US wants Russia to invade Ukraine so they can get NATO involved and escalate further.

So far, Russia ain't takin the bait.

Militia forces are composed of 19-23k Soldiers, current active Ukraine army forces are something like 48-52k. But the militia is holding their own pretty well despite being heavily outnumbered.

Russia could swoop in and end the whole thing in a week, but they are not.

"no actual Ukrainians among the militia.. it's all Russian Terrorists (lolz), Russia is responsible for all the civilian deaths, Russia shot down MH17 with a Buk and the new Ukraine government are all heroes who deserve to be in power (as opposed to puppets who take orders from the West.)"

i actually am NOT claiming ANY of these and you are free to go through my posts to confirm that

"no actual Ukrainians among the militia" there are ukrainians just as you could gather bunch of crooks and genuinely misguided/misinformed people in any country against it's government. separatists just abused momentary chaos in the country and of course general pro-russian sentiment always existing in that area and in media.

"Russia is responsible for all the civilian deaths" russia is not the guy hitting the buttons but it's largely russia that i blame for escalation of separatist conflict especially with regard to people taking weapons and starting to shoot everyone. for comparison when yanukovich did something lot's of people didn't like - tens(permanently) and hundreds(occasionally) of thousands people gathered for peaceful protest and with occasional escalations it remained peaceful for 3 MONTHS during WINTER - just consider that for a moment.

"Russia shot down MH17 with a Buk" separatists shot down MH17 with Buk - at least that's the most plausible option that i see from all the information, we can go through all the facts together if you'd like. just the fact that main separatist and russian media have reported that separatists have shot down another ukrainian AN26 and using video of crash smoke from MH17 to prove that is a HUGE indication to who is responsible - don't you think?

"new Ukraine government are all heroes who deserve to be in power" they are the next iteration and there will be more, unfortunately that's the way politics in urkaine work. the good thing here is that ukrainians got sick of previous president and actually rioted against him. nobody is saying it can't happen to current president but as for "deserve to be in power" - well he did get majority of votes in ukraine no matter how you count so that kinda stands.

"vids of white phosphorus" vids of white phosphorus and no vids of bombing site? no horribly burned people? seriously you just saw something slightly similar to phosphorus and assumed the worst without actually trying to assess available evidence.

in the end it seems like you're one of those who just wants to see world burn and shatter just for sakes of destroying current political establishment in US. if you hate your government and it's all so bad and nothing could be worse - why don't you just move and live in russia? isn't it the ideal country that you'd like to win in this conflict and have world built after it's model? i don't think you realize how much horrible world would be if russia and US would switch places..

No. I'm saying they missed to check their sources and the information itself before released the news. Are you saying that Jen Psaki blatantly lied and spread Ukrainian propaganda when she placed Astrakhan next to the Ukrainian border ?

i don't know anything about psaki but let me ask you this - considering that report on russian media and apparent absence of apology for incorrectly accusing ukraine in using BALLISTIC FUCKING MISSILES

what do you think the result is? how many more people are even angrier now at ukraine? how many are more sure that ballistic missiles are used? how many more separatists will join forces based solely on that reporting?

it seems you're completely taking out of equation effect media has on people's judgments and decisions.

[chopstick]

83 out of 4700 - survivors from 30th brigade return home and confront their commanders.

Unrest in ukrainian military.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VayoSyshgZA

[Pagan]

Four Russians Placed Under House Arrest for Pro-Ukrainian Stunt Painting Stalin-Era Building Star



http://www.interpretermag.com/17850/#3895

[Snail2]

i don't know anything about psaki but let me ask you this - considering that report on russian media and apparent absence of apology for incorrectly accusing ukraine in using BALLISTIC FUCKING MISSILES

what do you think the result is? how many more people are even angrier now at ukraine? how many are more sure that ballistic missiles are used? how many more separatists will join forces based solely on that reporting?

it seems you're completely taking out of equation effect media has on people's judgments and decisions.

Take a look at the "Use in combat" section of the SS-21 (OTR-21) page on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTR-21_Tochka

"There is evidence of the use of these missiles in the Lugansk area in mid-August 2014."

[Balthazar]

The most funny thing here is that russian army possess self-destruction codes for all missiles which were left in the ukraine. So in case of real conflict these missiles will be useless because russia can destroy them before they hit their targets.

[keymone2]

Take a look at the "Use in combat" section of the SS-21 (OTR-21) page on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTR-21_Tochka

"There is evidence of the use of these missiles in the Lugansk area in mid-August 2014."

way to completely dodge the question? we are talking here about that specific incident and that specific reporting where destruction of Proton rocket in 2013 was presented as use of ballistic missiles by ukrainian army in 2014. why are you not answering me?

and of those 4 links in wikipedia that are indicated as sources for "There is evidence of the use of these missiles in the Lugansk area in mid-August 2014." 3 are actually the same CNN report that is claiming some guys are saying someone has information about use of such weapons and another link is youtube video of some rocket LAYING ON THE GROUND. how do you imagine a 500kg warhead missile COMPLETELY surviving the explosion and just falling to the ground? and where are signs of explosion on the ground?

[Snail2]

way to completely dodge the question? we are talking here about that specific incident and that specific reporting where destruction of Proton rocket in 2013 was presented as use of ballistic missiles by ukrainian army in 2014. why are you not answering me?

and of those 4 links in wikipedia that are indicated as sources for "There is evidence of the use of these missiles in the Lugansk area in mid-August 2014." 3 are actually the same CNN report that is claiming some guys are saying someone has information about use of such weapons and another link is youtube video of some rocket LAYING ON THE GROUND. how do you imagine a 500kg warhead missile COMPLETELY surviving the explosion and just falling to the ground? and where are signs of explosion on the ground?

I've answered your question. Mistake. Period.

That rocket is quite far from "COMPLETELY surviving". Thats about the third of the original size. Maybe it failed to detonate and broke up on the impact, but even if it detonates the rear section can be thrown away by the blast. I've seen both cases with the old R-17 missiles.
BTW the wiki page have been modified quickly after my post . Good work.

[Balthazar]

That rocket is quite far from "COMPLETELY surviving". Thats about the third of the original size. Maybe it failed to detonate and broke up on the impact, but even if it detonates the rear section can be thrown away by the blast.

Purpose of these missiles is usage against massive amount of vehicles and troops... These missiles should detonate on some distance from the surface, because shrapnel is the main damaging factor. So if it was hit the surface then it's possible that self-destruction was activated. Or maybe, it's just a detonation failure but it's unlikely because these weapons quite reliable.

P.S. Only scum would be able to use this kind of weapon against civilians. It's designed for mass murder.

[Snail2]

Purpose of these missiles is usage against massive amount of vehicles and troops... These missiles should detonate on some distance from the surface, because shrapnel is the main damaging factor. So if it was hit the surface then it's possible that self-destruction was activated. Or maybe, it's just a detonation failure but it's unlikely because these weapons quite reliable.

P.S. Only scum would be able to use this kind of weapon against civilians.

If they used with fragmentation warhead then yes. With the HE warhead it should "touch down" to make a nice big crater and a huge blast wave.

[keymone2]

I've answered your question. Mistake. Period.

That rocket is quite far from "COMPLETELY surviving". Thats about the third of the original size. Maybe it failed to detonate and broke up on the impact, but even if it detonates the rear section can be thrown away by the blast. I've seen both cases with the old R-17 missiles.
BTW the wiki page have been modified quickly after my post . Good work.

you didn't answer my questions, i'll remind you: how many more people are even angrier now at ukraine? how many are more sure that ballistic missiles are used? how many more separatists will join forces based solely on that reporting?

"BTW the wiki page have been modified quickly after my post . Good work." i modified it to reflect the actual data. do you disagree with modifications? you are free to make the article even better.

as for rocket breaking down or detonating above the ground - that would imply the part that is on the video HAS FELL TO THE GROUND. i ask all of you who believe that was recently used rocket to watch the video again and see any evidence that this 500-1000KG beast fell to the ground. it just lies there broken, all important bits carefully ripped out of it(you can see that on the video). and notice how they never show front of the rocket - wouldn't it be most interesting bit to see? it's funny how whenever something is fishy about ukraine you're always going apeshit crazy "they are hiding something" but when it's about ukraine using ballistic missiles - "no that video is perfect, there's nothing to doubt"

[Snail2]

you didn't answer my questions, i'll remind you: how many more people are even angrier now at ukraine? how many are more sure that ballistic missiles are used? how many more separatists will join forces based solely on that reporting?

Oh, that question. OK. At first you shouldn't mix Ukraine with her government and her ruling elite. No issue with most of the Ukrainians, but as it's widely known their govt is a bunch of gangsters. If more separatist are joining that will happen because of the controversial actions of the elite.

"BTW the wiki page have been modified quickly after my post . Good work." i modified it to reflect the actual data. do you disagree with modifications? you are free to make the article even better.

I'm not used to modify stuff without factual knowledge about the actual events. So you shouldn't condemn the Russian media, because of doing the same as you. Anyway missile pieces are rarely laying around without launching them...

as for rocket breaking down or detonating above the ground - that would imply the part that is on the video HAS FELL TO THE GROUND. i ask all of you who believe that was recently used rocket to watch the video again and see any evidence that this 500-1000KG beast fell to the ground. it just lies there broken, all important bits carefully ripped out of it(you can see that on the video). and notice how they never show front of the rocket - wouldn't it be most interesting bit to see?

The rear of a rocket is relative light after it consumed it's fuel and the warhead is no longer there, so it can decelerate enough from air resistance to survive the impact in good shape. I don't know this type of missile but as I said the rear part of the R-17 missiles are often landed in relative good condition. The burnt nozzle suggest that it was recently launched.

it's funny how whenever something is fishy about ukraine you're always going apeshit crazy "they are hiding something" but when it's about ukraine using ballistic missiles - "no that video is perfect, there's nothing to doubt"

  Are you talking to me? Lay off that pipe mate.

[keymone2]

Oh, that question. OK. At first you shouldn't mix Ukraine with her government and her ruling elite. No issue with most of the Ukrainians, but as it's widely known their govt is a bunch of gangsters. If more separatist are joining that will happen because of the controversial actions of the elite.

I'm not used to modify stuff without factual knowledge about the actual events. So you shouldn't condemn the Russian media, because of doing the same as you. Anyway missile pieces are rarely laying around without launching them...

The rear of a rocket is relative light after it consumed it's fuel and the warhead is no longer there, so it can decelerate enough from air resistance to survive the impact in good shape. I don't know this type of missile but as I said the rear part of the R-17 missiles are often landed in relative good condition. The burnt nozzle suggest that it was recently launched.

  Are you talking to me? Lay off that pipe mate.

"If more separatist are joining that will happen because of the controversial actions of the elite." you're pro at dodging questions. is the answer to my question something you're afraid to admit to yourself?

"without factual knowledge about the actual events" my edits are based on factual knowledge of existence of fake video and a video of something that is more likely an old rocket than a recently used, partly blowed up, fallen to the ground from considerable heights rocket. how is this even remotely similar to claiming ukraine is using ballistic missiles and using your own rocket crashed year ago to prove that?

"The rear of a rocket" do you even realize that Tochka-U is a 6m long rocket? it's not a 3-stage beast Satan that goes to space. 6m! 5 of which we can see on a video and 6th meter(front) seemingly on purpose is being hidden from us. this thing does not blow up partially - it just blows up, 90% of that rocket, if it blew up, cannot be later found lying on the ground without ANY signs of it falling chaotically from the sky. where is any collateral damage? where are marks on the ground? where are broken tree branches? seriously it's all obvious basic stuff, not rocket science(although rocket is indeed involved).

"Are you talking to me? Lay off that pipe mate." i'm obviously generalizing but question still stands - don't you find it fishy they never came even close to front of the rocket? and the guy talking about it was always obstructing us from seeing the place where WARHEAD IS SUPPOSED TO BE MISSING FROM? don't you think it's sorta important bit of a rocket??

[chopstick]

Ukrainian National Guard POW testifies about Ukrainian war crimes.

Beating civilians and raping women... more "democracy" in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7raRDuFzmBQ

[Sithara007]

Ukrainian National Guard POW testifies about Ukrainian war crimes.

Beating civilians and raping women... more "democracy" in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7raRDuFzmBQ

Followers of Bandera following his footsteps.